A really sad looking CM Block Grinder - 1 HP m-257.191600

torqueman2002 · Jan 29, 2015

Who does this to a machine? And for heaven's sake a 1 HP!

:headshake

FI%201%20HP%20CM%20Block%20m-257.191600%20b.jpg

As I dis-assembled this 'rode-hard' grinder, it got stranger and stranger. Straps with allen-head bolts to hold the band in place not to mention the switch.

Someone got cleaver and added Baldor style eye shield mounts. This guy went all out on the RH wheel guard cover replacement.

Note: the original toggle switch, that was tucked at the back of the grinder. I suspect it failed in the ON position.

Here are shots of the inside.

Replacement switch and wiring.

Band with hole for the switch.

The water tray/base is still attached to the stand upper mounting plate. The mounting bolts are being soaked with Kroil. 2 of the grinder to tray/base broke and will need to be addressed.

I have other grinders in the que, but I just may move this 1 to the top.

I will keep you posted with updates.

zkling · Jan 29, 2015

Wow, I hope it was super cheap.

torqueman2002 · Jan 29, 2015

It came with a CM grinder stand that brings north of $90 on eBay. Yeah, a 1 HP is hard to come by. I've not seen one in SE Michigan for over 12 months.

It's a good thing I like rescuing CM grinders.

Before.

After.

vertguy · Jan 29, 2015

Wow... I saw that one on CL and glad to see it made into good hands :thumbup:

Much worse "under the hood" than I imagined. Good luck bringing it back to life!

mtwaterguy · Jan 30, 2015

It was on the bay also. I was typing a message to the seller as the auction was ended.

torqueman2002 · Jan 30, 2015

vertguy said:
Wow... I saw that one on CL and glad to see it made into good hands

Much worse "under the hood" than I imagined. Good luck bringing it back to life!

Thanks.

It's a testament to just how well made these Blocks are that they can take all that abuse.

Funny thing, the drilled and tap holes take time and a bit of skill. Even the holes for the RH cover line up.

I cut the cord, but not before I heard it growl to life and run for about 45 sec. Bearings for sure, switch, cord, cap, eye shields, ......

torqueman2002 · Jan 30, 2015

mtwaterguy said:
It was on the bay also. I was typing a message to the seller as the auction was ended.

Well, and I thought I was the only one crazy enough to want this sad puppy.

zkling · Jan 30, 2015

mtwaterguy said:
It was on the bay also. I was typing a message to the seller as the auction was ended.

Ah, that makes sense. Without an overall picture I didn't recognize it. Ran across that one the other day looking for stands.

nine4gmc · Jan 30, 2015

Pulling out the popcorn!

firemanast · Jan 30, 2015

Wow you have your work cut out on this one ! :bowdown:

8man · Jan 30, 2015

Looking forward to the rescue.

drivesitfar · Jan 30, 2015

TM: so with that newer very cool on off switch and the hearing aid the former owner put on that old grinder tell us how the insides look? i'm not sure that was worth the drive, but maybe you needed another original stand. i suppose if anybody can make that POS shine it would be you so wishing you the very best that you don't hurt yourself in the process.

it also sounds like other members were looking at that same Ebay listing and contacting the guy to get the 411 on all those fancy improvements. :bounce:

McBrownie · Jan 31, 2015

TM,

Looks like you have a project on your hands. I was thinking about all of the measurements you took on "Go Blue", but you were never 100% sure of what size it was. Now you'll have a known 1HP to compare it to. Can't wait to see the progress on this one.

McBrownie · Jan 31, 2015

drivesitfar said:
TM: so with that newer very cool on off switch and the hearing aid the former owner put on that old grinder tell us how the insides look? i'm not sure that was worth the drive, but maybe you needed another original stand. i suppose if anybody can make that POS shine it would be you so wishing you the very best that you don't hurt yourself in the process.

it also sounds like other members were looking at that same Ebay listing and contacting the guy to get the 411 on all those fancy improvements.

I'll take a guess. They used a chainsaw to make the hole for the new switch.

torqueman2002 · Feb 1, 2015

Thanks guys. The tear down began late yesterday. I'll be posting up the pics. this morning.

My comments follow in Blue.

firemanast said:
Wow you have your work cut out on this one !
Yes, in more ways than one.

8man said:
Looking forward to the rescue. It has begun.

drivesitfar said:
TM: so with that newer very cool on off switch and the hearing aid the former owner put on that old grinder tell us how the insides look? Pics to follow soon. i'm not sure that was worth the drive, but maybe you needed another original stand. i suppose if anybody can make that POS shine it would be you so wishing you the very best that you don't hurt yourself in the process.

it also sounds like other members were looking at that same Ebay listing and contacting the guy to get the 411 on all those fancy improvements.
I really don't know what to make of the improvements. The drilled and tapped holes took some skill to get spot on, but the rest of that hodgepodge of flotsam and jetsam ...

McBrownie said:
TM,

Looks like you have a project on your hands. I was thinking about all of the measurements you took on "Go Blue", but you were never 100% sure of what size it was. Now you'll have a known 1HP to compare it to. I've been thinking the same thing. Later today, if I cn escape to the shop, I'll finish the tear-down and begin cleaning, stripping. I should be able to compare the bits 'n pieces to those from Go Blue! Can't wait to see the progress on this one.

McBrownie said:
I'll take a guess. They used a chainsaw to make the hole for the new switch. I don't know why, either. I tested the 2nd switch stuffed into the back. It Ohm'd out OK.

torqueman2002 · Feb 1, 2015

The Tear-Down has begun.

Left hand cover removed, notice the threads, I sure wish I had a LH split die to clean these up.

Right hand is a little bit better.

These next pics. are a bit out of the actual tear-down sequence. First the electrical terminals were disconnected.

This is really the Left Hand arbor/shaft.

The spring washer 'fingers' face towards the bearing.

Internal wiring details.

I have read how to discharged Capacitors. I've never intentionally done it. This cap produce quite an impressive spark (3x!) when I removed the terminal going to the relay.

The 'extra' power switch check out.

The rest of the continuity tests PASSED.

The RH frame holds the power cord/strain relief, which is removed by squeezing the plastic strain-relief and pushing it in from the outside. That is not easy on a 40 year old cord/strain-relief.

I cut the cord short on each side, and pulled the individual wires out with needle nose.

It was then easier to squeeze the strain-relief and push it out of the frame.

I am at a loss right now, to understand why the light switch was buggered-on to the front. :dunno:

drivesitfar · Feb 1, 2015

TM: Nines was right we need to just bring out the popcorn and watch you do your magic. i bet i have a left thread tap in one of my toolboxes, but everything is buried now. maybe i'll find them before you are ready to re thread those ends to ship you one. what size?

have no idea why i guy would bury a working switch and cut a hole to put an ugly house light on off switch on that grinder. also what did he make that wheel guard out of?

looks like you are in your wheelhouse so i'll just sit back and watch and cheer as you keep going through that POS. let's hope it is truly a diamond in the rough.

mitusa · Feb 1, 2015

I have a grinder (I haven't fixed it yet) that has the original switch...it will turn on, but it has to be held to a certain spot for the grinder to remain running. Sometimes it will run fine; other times you have to "jiggle" the switch to get it to stay on....

McBrownie · Feb 1, 2015

TM,

Carla mentioned on another thread about using a "split nut" to protect and/or "chase" threads. You split the nut by dremeling through one side and can then use vise grips to squeeze it back together a little at a time. I wonder a good left-hand grade 8 nut could get those threads back in order.

As for the capacitor, I remember from my days in the power tool industry that one of the certification bodies (UL, CSA, TUV, etc...) required at least 3mm spacing between opposite poles. That's a little under 1/8", but those capacitor leads look closer than that. :eyecrazy:

By the way, it never ever crossed my mind that the capacitor is charged when unplugged. Luck over skill any day, I guess. :scared:

torqueman2002 · Feb 1, 2015

Hi Drives, my comments follow in Blue.

drivesitfar said:
TM: ... i bet i have a left thread tap in one of my toolboxes, but everything is buried now. maybe i'll find them before you are ready to re thread those ends to ship you one. what size? 5/8x18 Left Hand Thread. That would be great!

... what did he make that wheel guard out of? It is a plastic of sorts, it reminds me of the cutting board in our kitchen. Cleaner of course.

....

BMcC · Feb 1, 2015

Is that fire damage?

gungatim · Feb 1, 2015

on those threads, you can do a pretty good job just using a thread restorer file and a little skill. I had to buy an entire bag of LH nuts (min qty online) when I restored an old baldor grinder, but I think they were 3/4 not 5/8, otherwise I'd send you one to split and use.

torqueman2002 · Feb 1, 2015

Tear-down, continued.

The arbor/shaft was removed from the LH frame by holding onto the RH arbor/shaft end and easing the frame from the arbor/shaft/bearing assembly with a soft-faced hammer. Some times the bearing will stay with the frame.

The field winding is bolted to the RH frame with 4 bolts. After the winding is removed from the RH frame, the arbor assembly was eased from the frame as above.

RH bearing, felt washer, and spring washer.

Bearing removal from arbor/shaft.

The arbor shaft needs to be free of nicks, ridges, and anything that could keep the bearing from 'sliding-off' the shaft.

The RH shaft was cleaned-up with 500 wet/dry paper.

The LH shaft was also cleaned-up with 500 wet/dry paper.

After cleaning-up the shaft, a ridge at the outer edge of the larger diameter portion of the shaft revealed it's self.
A small/fine file was used to remove the ridge and the area 'dressed' with 500 paper afterward. The Blue painter's tape helped protect the shaft from errant file excursions.

There is a 'C' clip next to the inner face of each bearing. Removal of the clip, with a stout but fine point right angle pick, helps prevent inadvertent damage to the rotor/shaft during bearing removal.

Painter's tape and a strong magnet help keep the clip from flying-off to some dark, dusty, hiding place.

I was able to 'ease off' the RH bearing from the arbor/shaft.

The the inner face of the bearing was placed on top of the vise jaws, with the shaft hanging between the open jaws.

The RH nut was placed onto the shaft to protect the threads.

A soft faced metal hammer drove the arbor/shaft down through the bearing, which stayed on top of the vise jaws.

The LH bearing was removed using a bearing splitter seated behind the inner face of the bearing.

torqueman2002 · Feb 1, 2015

Thanks for looking and posting. My replies are in Blue.

mitusa said:
I have a grinder (I haven't fixed it yet) that has the original switch...it will turn on, but it has to be held to a certain spot for the grinder to remain running. Sometimes it will run fine; other times you have to "jiggle" the switch to get it to stay on....
If the switch is the Red Pull/Push style, it may be re-repairable. See: http://tinyurl.com/Go-Blue-Block-Sw-Rpair

McBrownie said:
TM,

Carla mentioned on another thread about using a "split nut" to protect and/or "chase" threads. You split the nut by dremeling through one side and can then use vise grips to squeeze it back together a little at a time. I wonder a good left-hand grade 8 nut could get those threads back in order.
I do have extra LH nuts, that I will try your suggestion.

As for the capacitor, I remember from my days in the power tool industry that one of the certification bodies (UL, CSA, TUV, etc...) required at least 3mm spacing between opposite poles. That's a little under 1/8", but those capacitor leads look closer than that. By the way, it never ever crossed my mind that the capacitor is charged when unplugged. Luck over skill any day, I guess.
I have been spared by luck more than a few times in my life.

BMcC said:
Is that fire damage?
The Q-tray/base has a lot of sediment in it. At this point I'm thinking years of water corrosion. I'll keep fire damage in mind though.

gungatim said:
on those threads, you can do a pretty good job just using a thread restorer file and a little skill. I had to buy an entire bag of LH nuts (min qty online) when I restored an old baldor grinder, but I think they were 3/4 not 5/8, otherwise I'd send you one to split and use.
Thank you for the thought. I will have to double check the size, because I looked up what I thought the arbor thread size/pitch is from my spreadsheet. I've had good success with a small 3-sided fine file. It is teadous. I just see this as a great reason to add to my tool inventory.

mitusa · Feb 1, 2015

If the switch is the Red Pull/Push style, it may be re-repairable. See: http://tinyurl.com/Go-Blue-Block-Sw-Rpair

Thanks for the link...mine is not push/pull, but I may try to fix it anyway.

Again, Thanks!

laser3kw · Feb 1, 2015

I keep hearing the theme from "the six million dollar man"
carry on... i want to see how this turns out.
it seems all my projects turn out like this - starts out simple then turns into a Mike Holmes " gut it an start over"

torqueman2002 · Feb 2, 2015

I uploaded a video of the noisy bearings of the 1 HP 'Sad Sack' Block to YouTube.

The 'other' 1 HP grinder referred to is the one in the video of
the CM Block m-257.191600 Go Blue!

pancho400cid · Feb 2, 2015

it never ever crossed my mind that the capacitor is charged when unplugged

Sorry if I'm pointing out the obvious, but speaking as a guy who's been zapped good :shocking:

- capacitors store electrical charge. It's what they are made to do. They can be VERY dangerous. Always un-plug, then short the capacitor leads until charge is zero (for smaller ones a screwdriver you don't care too much about works - expect a significant spark), then keep the leads shorted with a jumper until you put it back together.

Loving the re-build! Clearly it's in good hands!

drivesitfar · Feb 2, 2015

Pancho and TM: while we are talking about capacitors i heard i shouldn't work on my microwave because the charge stored in it can kill me. is that also a capacitor and maybe a much larger one? sorry to get a little off track, but i'm a safety guy now after taking so many unknown risks when i was younger and luckily surviving all of them.

pancho400cid · Feb 3, 2015

Motor starting caps don't get higher than line voltage. Even so they will seriously zap you. I know nothing about microwave ovens but I "think" the capacitors in a microwave are much higher voltage than line voltage - like in excess of 1,000 volts.

drivesitfar · Feb 3, 2015

Pancho: thanks and i'll do a little more research, but that's what i was thinking i remember hearing about the microwave.

TM: any progress today? sorry for getting the thread off track and BTW i did like your little wood set up to show the noisy bearings you are replacing. how do the wires look because from the few pictures I've seen the insides look a lot better than the outsides?

mtwaterguy · Feb 3, 2015

torqueman2002 said:
Well, and I thought I was the only one crazy enough to want this sad puppy.

"I will not look for grinders, I will not search CL for grinders, I will give grinders to the needy, ..... panicx"

Ran across this in a post. Wonder who could have made such a statement?

drivesitfar · Feb 3, 2015

MT: that was before TM went to Block therapy and was able to sell a few. he also likes a challenge and this block is all of that.

torqueman2002 · Feb 4, 2015

pancho400cid said:
... keep the leads shorted with a jumper until you put it back together.
Very good advise.
Loving the re-build! Clearly it's in good hands!
Thanks.

drivesitfar said:
... TM: any progress today? Yes, but I did get a bit side-tracked, so not much to post. sorry for getting the thread off track and BTW i did like your little wood set up to show the noisy bearings you are replacing. how do the wires look because from the few pictures I've seen the insides look a lot better than the outsides?
I am generally pleased with the inside as compared with Go Blue!

mtwaterguy said:
"I will not look for grinders, I will not search CL for grinders, I will give grinders to the needy, ..... panicx"

Ran across this in a post. Wonder who could have made such a statement?
Help, I've fallen and I can't get up!

drivesitfar said:
MT: that was before TM went to Block therapy and was able to sell a few. he also likes a challenge and this block is all of that.
My goal is to selectively harvest the inventory and use the $$ to sustain the 'hobby'. I have all I should have.
I will make some 'all nice and shiny' and put them on eBay.
It's time I begin to sell.

I picked-up new Japan sourced (marked Canada) bearings. I was given a choice by the helpful counterman of Japanese or Chinese made.

They cost more than ordering on-line, but the supplier is local and I am able to ask advise.

Take a look at the bearing seat/bore. I asked him to confirm my suspicion the bearing was loose and spinning in the housing. Yup. I'm going to use LOCTITE 38652 620 Bearing Mount.

I will post a video of spinning of the new bearings on the arbor/shaft, to compare with the old 'roller skate' sounding bearings.

McBrownie · Feb 4, 2015

TM,

Really enjoying the thread. That grinder has ended up in the right place. How many hours of operation are on that thing? Do you have any idea of it's history?

torqueman2002 · Feb 4, 2015

McBrownie said:
TM,

Really enjoying the thread. That grinder has ended up in the right place. How many hours of operation are on that thing? Do you have any idea of it's history?

Brownie - I think if I was to log all my time I'd be shocked.

There's the time I spent on the road to get it, the tear down, messaging the frozen bolts, tracking down a replacement tray, .... There's no way I could make this a living or even make it worth doing for money, on anything other than occasional eBay grinder or stand.

But, hands on, so far I'd estimate less than 2 hours.

torqueman2002 · Feb 6, 2015

I made a little progress on restoring Sad Sack today.

The fresh new bearings are on the arbor/shaft.
OD = 40.0 mm
ID = 17.0 mm
Width = 12.0 mm

I used the shrink and heat method to easily fit the bearings on the shaft.

3 new YouTube video links.

Thanks for looking.
:thumbup:

SweetD · Feb 6, 2015

Thank you for posting those cool vids torqueman - very informative!

:beer:

Dave

McBrownie · Feb 6, 2015

torqueman2002 said:
Brownie - I think if I was to log all my time I'd be shocked.

There's the time I spent on the road to get it, the tear down, messaging the frozen bolts, tracking down a replacement tray, .... There's no way I could make this a living or even make it worth doing for money, on anything other than occasional eBay grinder or stand.

But, hands on, so far I'd estimate less than 2 hours.

Actually, I was wondering about the hours of operation on the grinder itself. To spin the bearing like that, it must have been run a lot. That is why I was wondering if you knew where it spent the first 30 years of it's life.

torqueman2002 · Feb 6, 2015

McBrownie said:
Actually, I was wondering about the hours of operation on the grinder itself. To spin the bearing like that, it must have been run a lot. That is why I was wondering if you knew where it spent the first 30 years of it's life.

Hah, sorry it's all about me. Didn't I tell ya? :lol_hitti

The guy I bought it from, appeared to be in the business of liquidating businesses.

He had a number of pieces of production equipment. So, I wouldn't be surprised if it was on a production shop floor in it's former life.

No idea how many hours are on it. :dunno:

A really sad looking CM Block Grinder - 1 HP m-257.191600

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