New detached 24x24 for Alfa guy

fourmotioneer · Apr 29, 2015

So, my detached 24x24 was lost to a fired started by my 1989 Alfa Romeo Milano Verde. I'm heartbroken. I'd been spending 8 hours a night in there working on my Alfa. In the year that I owned the garage, I rebuilt plenty on my Alfa, and was planning on restoring my 84 GTI too. Here's a story that I posted on Jalopnik to get my thoughts together: My Alfa is gone. I used to write about my cars at BlythBros.com, but we lost 4 of the cars in the fire, so things will be slow for a little bit.

Right now, I'm getting ready to haul out the burnt structure so that I can have the concrete pad evaluated. The fire didn't burn all of the tires off of the vehicles, so I'm somewhat hopeful that the pad can be salvaged. I'll call a concrete company out, but to me, that seems like it could be a conflict of interest - any ideas on how to get it checked?

A buddy is a retired contractor, both commercial and residential, and has recommended that I take on the work of rebuilding myself. I hope to do so, and to document the work here. For now, my plans are to keep things simple (is this simple?):

Ample fire extinguishers
24x24' w/ 16x7' garage door
10' walls if the total height is within city code
Attic trusses, possibly 6/12 pitch for some space if code will allow height
Drywall, though likely just nailed up and unfinished
Simple plumbing from isolated air compressor to central 50ft reel
Outlets every 6ft with a 25ft overhead reel
A single side door
No windows - either the door will be open, or the lights will be on
Wall, garage door, and roof insulation, if I like the price (Synthetic wool underwear if I don't - I'm not soft)

I'm an automotive engineer, so I'll have to build around my work schedule, but I can make it work. Weekends aren't a problem, and I'm fine going as late as socially acceptable.

And for more of an introduction, well, I'm 25, like Alfas and engineering, and here are my old cars, before their tragic end:

1989 Alfa Romeo Milano

1984 VW GTI

And, now for some photos of the garage in its most recent configuration before burning. Nothing special, but I rebuilt the engine, brakes, and suspension on the Milano in there, so plenty capable!

And, finally, the burnt garage

Please chime in with any 24x24 DIY resources you'd like to share. I've done plenty of googling and research on this forum already. And, thanks for checking out my thread.

slammed240wagon · Apr 29, 2015

WOW. So sorry to hear about your cars and garage. That is nightmare I could never wish upon anybody. I know what it's like to lose one car like that, and it really hit me hard. If you love the hobby enough you will rebuild in short time though! Good luck

zgfiredude · Apr 29, 2015

And the GTI is gone, too?! I was the proud owner of the first GTI sold in Colorado when they were introduced!!! And it was exactly like yours, I miss that car....

Good luck with the re-build, you will overcome!

alberto · Apr 30, 2015

What caused the fire?

CombatNinja · Apr 30, 2015

Alfa caught him checking out a clean e30 BMW in a parking lot. Italian women can be so vindictive sometimes...

In all seriousness, sorry to see you lose your cars like that. I had a clean GTI much like that one many years ago.

OP, since the fire was considerate enough to take you down to the bare slab, have you considered having at least part of it busted up an repoured so it is thick enough to support a lift? Looks like you do a lot of your own wrenching and a lift in the new place would be awesome.

fourmotioneer · Apr 30, 2015

slammed240wagon said:
WOW. So sorry to hear about your cars and garage. That is nightmare I could never wish upon anybody. I know what it's like to lose one car like that, and it really hit me hard. If you love the hobby enough you will rebuild in short time though! Good luck

Thanks. I was living in Columbus, IN when I bought the Alfa. Columbus Import Auto is awesome. You know Dave?

zgfiredude said:
And the GTI is gone, too?! I was the proud owner of the first GTI sold in Colorado when they were introduced!!! And it was exactly like yours, I miss that car....

Good luck with the re-build, you will overcome!

They are even more fun at sea level!

alberto said:
What caused the fire?

Was troubleshooting a no-start, and I knew it was ignition, not fuel. I had the fuel pump relay unplugged for all of the troubleshooting, to allow me to crank over without dumping fuel into the cylinders. When I figure out the issue, I plugged fuel back in, and there was still enough fuel in the manifold to backfire and blow it off and light the fuel hoses and rubber on fire. The right fire extinguisher would have prevented this.

CombatNinja said:
Alfa caught him checking out a clean e30 BMW in a parking lot. Italian women can be so vindictive sometimes...

In all seriousness, sorry to see you lose your cars like that. I had a clean GTI much like that one many years ago.

OP, since the fire was considerate enough to take you down to the bare slab, have you considered having at least part of it busted up an repoured so it is thick enough to support a lift? Looks like you do a lot of your own wrenching and a lift in the new place would be awesome.

That is a consideration, and I would consider something like MaxJax if I did. That being said, I was amazed at how much easier life got when I bought a 3-ton rapid pump floor jack and plenty of extra steel jack stands. It takes an extra 5 minutes to get the car into a position where I can work sitting down. We'll see though. Lift would certainly be convenient.

Brick_Smart · May 1, 2015

Devastating to see the GTI go. Perfect opportunity to set up a well planed electric and air layout though.

A 50 amp 220 service to the subpanel should be sufficient I think. Anyone here use/need more than that?

fourmotioneer · May 5, 2015

Had some friends over for the weekend to get the garage down to a bare slab. Hoping to have the cars all hauled out by the end of the week.

Next step is to work with the city to see if the current pad can be built upon. If not, it may need to by modified or replaced to meet newer code.

https://scontent-ord.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11188313_1571755103073711_2754378252607172843_n.jpg?oh=a46c6f07be5c179fc0a4529be8d978bf&oe=55DACEDF

https://scontent-ord.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11017525_1571755106407044_3494383847850489351_n.jpg?oh=50c77805cfdbeea7356bbf3dd2f56bd5&oe=55DF860E

Lippyp · May 5, 2015

Is that what the rest of the world calls an Alfa 75? Always wanted a 75 cloverleaf after I had a ride in a colleagues back in the day, thing was a rocketship. As the former owner of two Alfasuds I understand all about ****** Italian electrics, people moan about British cars and Lucas being the prince of darkness but clearly they ain't met Magneti Marelli electrics put together by Italians after a lunchtime bottle of Chianti. I'm not surprised it caught fire! Sorry for your loss though, them italians are seductive aren't they!

CNGsaves · May 5, 2015

How many engines did that Alfa have ???

I see at least 4 big v8's in the junk pile ??

You've shopped around for best scrap price . . . right ??

Good luck with rebuild. +1 to rebuild better with support for lift.

bczygan · May 8, 2015

Heartbreaking.

I've lost a garage to fire, with all contents...and no insurance.

Kind of know how you feel.

fourmotioneer · May 11, 2015

Lippyp said:
Is that what the rest of the world calls an Alfa 75? Always wanted a 75 cloverleaf after I had a ride in a colleagues back in the day, thing was a rocketship. As the former owner of two Alfasuds I understand all about ****** Italian electrics, people moan about British cars and Lucas being the prince of darkness but clearly they ain't met Magneti Marelli electrics put together by Italians after a lunchtime bottle of Chianti. I'm not surprised it caught fire! Sorry for your loss though, them italians are seductive aren't they!

It is an Alfa 75 outside of the states, yes. Mine was a Verde (cloverleaf). The electronics weren't an issue during my ownership - ECU and most electronics were Bosch on mine.

It also wasn't an electrical fire - just good ol gas in the manifold.

CNGsaves said:
How many engines did that Alfa have ??? I see at least 4 big v8's in the junk pile ??

You've shopped around for best scrap price . . . right ??

Good luck with rebuild. +1 to rebuild better with support for lift.

Ha, well there are 4 Alfa V6s in the pile, which is even better (or worse, now that they are scrap). Sad thing is, one was my brother's and two were my friends. I still don't have direction from insurance, so I can't scrap them yet. I'll probably make wine bottle holders from them once I get the clear from insurance.

bczygan said:
Heartbreaking.

I've lost a garage to fire, with all contents...and no insurance.

Kind of know how you feel.

Wow, even with insurance it's a huge mental blow. Nothing like taking photos of every tool you owned, now in a charred state. I don't think I'll be able to enjoy a bonfire for a while.

fourmotioneer · May 11, 2015

And, an update. Anybody want to chime in with concrete experience?

I'm working to get the lot surveyed, but even with a survey, I'm guessing that my pad is 1ft too close to the fence. And, I'm not hopeful that the city will let me grandfather it in as an existing structure.

So, after speaking with a nice concrete guy yesterday, I think it might be possible to do the following:
-Cut two feet from the edge of the existing pad and remove top layer of concrete
-Dig 42" footer using the 12" of space adjacent to the old footer
-Pour new 42" footer right next to old footer
-Pour pad on top of both footers.

I'll need to research that a bit more, but I think it minimizes tear-up and would be the cheapest and fastest way (All DIY) to get in compliance.

Then, I'd need to decide if it's worth my time to add to the opposite side of the garage.

fleming23 · May 11, 2015

I know it doesn't contribute to your post or situation, but after reading/seeing this, I am researching a better fire extinguisher for my garage right now as I know the one I have is probably not sufficient.

dubber · May 11, 2015

Very sorry to hear about your previous space.....especially that little GTI. Good luck with the rebuild.

sd171 · May 11, 2015

fourmotioneer said:
24x24' w/ 16x7' garage door

10' walls if the total height is within city code

Attic trusses, possibly 6/12 pitch for some space if code will allow height

I built a 24'x34' detached garage with attic trusses and an 18'x8' garage door. You seem to like small cars, but you have the width for a larger door and 18'x8' is the largest standard size available in the US. A larger door can also shrink the visual scale of the building especially if you want 10' walls. I would also recommend deeper than 24' if you can. It would give you more room at the back for a workshop and more room to access the attic with a staircase or pull-down stairs.

fourmotioneer · May 16, 2015

So far, the best way I can think of removing all of the broken glass is with a shop vac. I went through the yard a few times, but I think I'll need to replace the grass/dirt near the spot where the old garage window broke. Just too much glass embedded in the soil. The safety glass from all of the vehicles was easy enough to pull up.

As for the cars, I donated two to a veteran's group. The VIN on the VW burned, and all that was left was the chassis VIN, so I had to find someone a bit less detail-oriented to remove that car. That wasn't a problem in Detroit

. I had the red Alfa towed to the local Alfa guy's lot - I figured that it would be a shame for any of its parts to go to waste.

Tomorrow I plan on vacuuming the driveway and pad one more time and then powerwashing both. That will wrap up the demolition and cleanup phase.

I had a site survey done on Friday. It looks like the pad is currently 2.56' away from the property line, and the new code requires a 3' setback. As soon as I get the drawings from the survey, I'll get the appeal process going. I have to say, I am somewhat hopeful that the old pad will be grandfathered in with such a small deviation (5").

fourmotioneer · Aug 31, 2015

Construction took two weeks to this point. I bet a better homeowner and crew could do this in two weekends of solid work. This was our first time building, hence the extra time. I had great help from my girlfriend, who planned out all of the walls. My older brother did all of the roofing while he visited. Had some good friends lift the walls with us. Lots of learning. Just need to cut the shingles and do two more walls of siding.

First, a timelapse:

Raw materials:

IMG_5199 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

Framing:

IMG_5208 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

First wall up:

IMG_5217 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

2nd wall up:

IMG_5248 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

3rd wall up:

IMG_5249 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

4th wall up (photo with my big brother, the PhD in nuclear engineering, wearing cut-offs and a patriotic shirt haha):

IMG_5250 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

Some detail of the headers (for first timers) and the trusses waiting to be flipped into position:

IMG_5253 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

Trusses waiting to be flipped:

IMG_5256 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

Flipping and sheathing trusses:

IMG_5261 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

Finishing gable end sheathing:

IMG_5269 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

House wrap and roof sheathing done!

IMG_5277 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

Roof finished (minus overhanging shingles):

IMG_5294 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

Siding work while playing with the dog:

IMG_5299 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

Siding with my older brother:

IMG_5302 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

Current state:

IMG_5303 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

BBSkylark · Sep 1, 2015

Way to come back, its looking really good! Did you manage to get your 10' high walls? Any hoist plans?

fourmotioneer · Sep 1, 2015

BBSkylark said:
Way to come back, its looking really good! Did you manage to get your 10' high walls? Any hoist plans?

Thanks! The walls ended up being 9' 4", which is plenty since I think host plans are not in the picture at the moment.

fourmotioneer · Sep 8, 2015

Talking to the inspector today, he said this regarding the wall that I have 3' from my neighbor's yard:

"The exterior wall should have OSB, bldg.. paper and then cover with the type X.
The interior wall only requires the one layer of 5/8 drywall, to the underside of the roof deck."

Has anyone ever heard of exterior drywall like this? Seems off to me.

fourmotioneer · Oct 20, 2015

Here's a quick photo update with some rough photos, but I'm too excited about the result to charge the DSLR battery!...

Inspector came last week and said it's good to go pending installation of gutters and hurricane ties - got that done this weekend. Floor coating is the cheap epoxy from Home Depot, but with diamond wheel resurfacing of concrete along with acid etch and ample cleanup. A friend has had this in his shop for over 6 years with no issues. His advice is no surprise: good prep.

The workbench is a work in progress - currently have two slabs of 2x10 butcher block on a wheeled frame, but planning to build a stationary metal frame for one of the slabs and connect in an L shape. The cheap Craftsman desk is nicer than I expected, and will probably be moved and used as an electronics station later.

And the car? That's a 1979 Alfa Romeo Sprint Veloce (Alfetta GT) that I'm putting together for my dad. It's a California car with fresh paint and some minor mechanical needs. Should be a nice first project for the new garage.

Oh, and there are TWO! fire extinguishers - one front and back. I've learned that lesson.

And a quick look at the tool box. I've tried to keep it compact as possible by storing all of my SAE stuff in the basement, since I only work on European cars. So far, I haven't even filled the bottom drawer of the HF red project cart. I like it for what I do. Organization as follows:

Craftsman sockets and HF impact sockets:

Screwdrivers and picks:

Pliers:

Hex keys and persuasive devices:

18V and air tools:

dubber · Oct 20, 2015

Nice space. Looks like there is a ton of room in there to work on a project such as that.

Beenman · Oct 20, 2015

fourmotioneer said:

Ooohh. Those are nice looking rims there. :thumbup:

Brick_Smart · Oct 20, 2015

Looking clean and efficient! Do you have plans on drywalling the rest of the interior?

The Alfa Romeo sticker on the cart adds a nice touch :thumbup:

fourmotioneer · Oct 21, 2015

Brick_Smart said:
Looking clean and efficient! Do you have plans on drywalling the rest of the interior?

The Alfa Romeo sticker on the cart adds a nice touch

I don't know, do you have plans to come help with some sanding?! :eyecrazy:

anth · Oct 21, 2015

Very nice turnaround from what you started with, space looks great.

Also, how could this place not be called The Phoenix Garage!? :beer:

fourmotioneer · Apr 17, 2016

Here's the garage as it sits today. I have the 88 Milano out for weekend duty, so the 79 Sprint Veloce is all that's inside for now.

DSC_1526 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

_DSC5777 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

I put together two sets of the Home Depot heavy duty shelves, leaving room for my tools and a small workbench beneath the two on the right. I doubled up on the uprights and mixed and matched the cross beams to make three columns of shelves from a set of two. Weight is low, so I'm not concerned with overloading.

_DSC5736 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

I moved the bikes to the wall to make area in the corner by the door for the parts washer. Stuck it on a Husky Cabinet that I got on super clearance (I keep brake fluid, oil, coolant, filters and consumables down there). The cabinet above the parts cleaners is the only cabinet that doesn't contain tools or Alfa parts - I've got some rubber lines for drawers and hangers, moving blankets, and various garage items up there. MIG is tucked in on the left.

_DSC5740 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

_DSC5742 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

_DSC5743 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

_DSC5747 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

I do my bench work here. Plenty of cheap coffee cans down on the shelf to keep systems consolidated while working multiple projects at once.

_DSC5748 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

_DSC5749 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

_DSC5751 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

_DSC5755 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

_DSC5760 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

_DSC5761 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr
I kept the bottom shelf open on this shelf so that I could roll some transaxles (and a few engines I have stored elsewhere) under here.

_DSC5774 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

I keep all of my newer, nicer parts in these two shelves. For now, it's Sprint Veloce on the left, and Milano/164 (V6) on the right.

_DSC5763 by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

Red Leader · Apr 17, 2016

Wow, what a hard but amazing story. I read your story and then skipped ahead and its looked as if your place never even burnt down! The fact that you made that post less than a year ago really speaks volumes about your fortitude and my hope is that I would be of the same measure if something equally challenging happened to me. I really admire that.

Do you have plans for a more extravagant fire control system in the garage/cars? Do you carry a few fire extinguishers in the cars?

I've often wondered about if someone made a product that was like a fire extinguisher but more of like a self-contained 'pill' and you could put it in places that if the heat of a fire reached it, it would 'pop' and the fire extinguishing contents would go everywhere and maybe lend a hand in putting out the fire?

In any case, your place looks awesome and it is great to see you bouncing back! Don't ever let that stuff hold you back!

-Dave

fourmotioneer · Apr 17, 2016

Red Leader said:
Wow, what a hard but amazing story. I read your story and then skipped ahead and its looked as if your place never even burnt down! The fact that you made that post less than a year ago really speaks volumes about your fortitude and my hope is that I would be of the same measure if something equally challenging happened to me. I really admire that.

Do you have plans for a more extravagant fire control system in the garage/cars? Do you carry a few fire extinguishers in the cars?

I've often wondered about if someone made a product that was like a fire extinguisher but more of like a self-contained 'pill' and you could put it in places that if the heat of a fire reached it, it would 'pop' and the fire extinguishing contents would go everywhere and maybe lend a hand in putting out the fire?

In any case, your place looks awesome and it is great to see you bouncing back! Don't ever let that stuff hold you back!

-Dave

Thank you, and this Friday will mark 1 year since the fire. I might come across as optimistic, but I really don't like making things more painful than they have to be. It was an opportunity to learn, just like the many mechanical maladies on the Milano were.

I do not have any elaborate fire suppression system planned. What I do have are two appropriately-sized fire extinguishers in the garage. I should add two more (and I will). I do not do any electrical work without one on the floor next to me, and I absolutely do not touch ignition or fuel systems without one ready to go.

As for your pill idea, I seem to recall seeing a type of fire extinguisher with that concept.

Brick_Smart · Apr 19, 2016

Now that you've had time to settle in, is there anything you would do different with the basic 24x24' design and how are the 9' walls working out?

fourmotioneer · Apr 19, 2016

Brick_Smart said:
Now that you've had time to settle in, is there anything you would do different with the basic 24x24' design and how are the 9' walls working out?

I probably would have done attic trusses if I had been thinking. Too many Alfa parts!

fourmotioneer · Apr 25, 2016

My latest blog post reflecting on the last year and the challenges I've had: http://blythbros.com/hindsight-a-year-after-the-fire/

CuoreSportivo · May 3, 2016

I love your new space, and of course I love what you have put inside ;-)

The GTV looks in very good condition, the 75/Milano also, and the 164 is a future classic!

Swing by my thread and have a look at my old Alfa's (I need to post som new pictures of the garage!)

onemanarmy · May 3, 2016

Love the rebuild.

I'm contemplating building a 24x30 garage myself (with some help) after I get the pad poured.

Did you go with a 'kit' or did you buy the pieces as you needed them? How did you lift the trusses up?

volksnick · May 3, 2016

fourmotioneer said:
Talking to the inspector today, he said this regarding the wall that I have 3' from my neighbor's yard:

"The exterior wall should have OSB, bldg.. paper and then cover with the type X.
The interior wall only requires the one layer of 5/8 drywall, to the underside of the roof deck."

Has anyone ever heard of exterior drywall like this? Seems off to me.

This is a requirement in the IRC that says that if you build within 5 feet of the property line that you must use a 1 hour rated wall. You can look up Table R302.1 in the IRC for this requirement. It's designed to keep fire spread down.

fourmotioneer said:
T
As for your pill idea, I seem to recall seeing a type of fire extinguisher with that concept.

Blazecut is the system I have seen. It is essentially like a 6' piece of PEX pipe that is capped on both ends. It gets secured over the engine compartment and when the fire melts to tubing, the fire suppression gas is released.

fourmotioneer · May 6, 2016

CuoreSportivo said:
I love your new space, and of course I love what you have put inside ;-)

The GTV looks in very good condition, the 75/Milano also, and the 164 is a future classic!

Swing by my thread and have a look at my old Alfa's (I need to post som new pictures of the garage!)

Thanks! I think the 164 is the best day-to-day car, the Milano the sportiest, and the Sprint Veloce (GTV)...well, we'll see! My GTV-6 is at a friend's barn for the time being.

onemanarmy said:
Love the rebuild.

I'm contemplating building a 24x30 garage myself (with some help) after I get the pad poured.

Did you go with a 'kit' or did you buy the pieces as you needed them? How did you lift the trusses up?

Thanks! I went to the pro desk at Home Depot and the drew up the plans with me on their computer. Took 2 hours. It turned the whole thing into a bill of material and they delivered it all to my house for $25, no kidding. The total cost was like $4,500 I think. Worth it in my opinion, but I'm not a carpenter so who knows. Everything I needed, from the door, to the garage door, to the shingles, to the nails, to the timber lock screws were all included and at pro discount. I used Raise.com gift cards to Home Depot that I got at a 10% discount to pay for it and save $450.

We lifted the trusses the 2-person way - first lifted them onto the roof by lifting with two tall guys, and then stood underneath with long notched 2x4s and flipped them up. We tacked a few 2x6s to the gable end before hoisting the gables up and then tacked each subsequent truss to the first using a 2x6 as a strap. All and all much easier than actually sheathing them, in my opinion. Lifting and positioning the OSB wasn't bad but more challenging IMO.

volksnick said:
This is a requirement in the IRC that says that if you build within 5 feet of the property line that you must use a 1 hour rated wall. You can look up Table R302.1 in the IRC for this requirement. It's designed to keep fire spread down.

Blazecut is the system I have seen. It is essentially like a 6' piece of PEX pipe that is capped on both ends. It gets secured over the engine compartment and when the fire melts to tubing, the fire suppression gas is released.

I might buy a few of those blazecuts - thanks for sharing. And thanks for looking up the code there. I did end up building a 1 hour rated wall. Extra cost wasn't too bad and it didn't take too much extra time.

fourmotioneer · Apr 23, 2018

Thought I would post some photos of the garage in action since it's been 3 years since the fire that burned down the old garage.

Here's the current stable:

Corvino build by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

Pulling the 88 Alfa Romeo Milano engine for some routine maintenance:

Corvino build by leetlebeeg, on Flickr
Some refreshing:

Corvino build by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

Worklight

:

Corvino build by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

The small workbench in action:

Untitled by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

Completed engine:

Untitled by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

And cleaned up engine bay:

Untitled by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

And the Maserati posing:

Untitled by leetlebeeg, on Flickr

M-technik-3 · Apr 25, 2018

Very sorry to hear of your loss, nothing like the sound of a flat plane v6/v8. Milano's were neat but never caught on here in the US like an E30. That being said shame about the three wheelin Gti, miss mine and it's 16V Scirocco brother.

New structure looks great, any reason you did not put a storage area upstairs or did I miss that?

EDIT thought the fiesty one did not survive the fire.

fourmotioneer · Apr 25, 2018

M-technik-3 said:
Very sorry to hear of your loss, nothing like the sound of a flat plane v6/v8. Milano's were neat but never caught on here in the US like an E30. That being said shame about the three wheelin Gti, miss mine and it's 16V Scirocco brother.

New structure looks great, any reason you did not put a storage area upstairs or did I miss that?

EDIT thought the fiesty one did not survive the fire.

Thanks - it was quite a blow to me 3 years ago but I learned a lot through the experience.

When I designed the garage with the Home Depot Pro Desk, I just wanted the simplest structure I could be happy with since I'm not much of a carpenter. I didn't select roof trusses to do a proper attic. I do have spec sheets on my trusses though - maybe it's time to look into adding a lighter duty storage area upstairs.

The fiesty one (the grey Milano) did not survive the fire. I replaced it with a black one 2 months after the fire. That's the one I've been working on lately.

New detached 24x24 for Alfa guy

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