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Heavy Duty Welding/Layout Table Build, MK II

dr_clyde

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Jan 7, 2009
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Holland, MI
My old "Ultimate Welding Table" has served me splendidly. It has been an essential fixture in my shop, and I consider it to be one of my most useful and effective fab tools.

However the time has come for its replacement to be fabricated. I sold it to my neighbor after he got some welding equipment and was asking me about a table. I gave him the condition that I be able to use it one last time to fabricate it's replacement. I figured this would be a good opportunity to upgrade some features.

I will update this thread as I go, hopefully it gets done soonish.

This time around, I plan to do a few things different. First, the top plate.

3/4" was too thin on the old one, and had a slight rolled edge where it was sheared at the steel supply. I also hated the mill scale on the surface. It was flaking off inconsistently, and made grounding on sensitive parts a pain. Over 10 feet, the weight of the plate made a very small sag in the middle of the table. Not enough to bug most people, but I was bothered by it.

I ordered this as a replacement. It is 1-1/4" thick A36, Blanchard ground to +/- .005" per foot and a 32 RMS finish.

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The next thing I started work on was the bottom of the base. I decided to upgrade from 2-1/2" to 4". I really don't want 6 legs, so the only way to get a self supporting frame with minimal deflection in the center is to build out of material that is stiff enough to not sag over 10 feet. I had some leftover 4", so it was the perfect choice.

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I also cut the legs out of this material.

Next up was to cut the bottoms for the legs and weld in some nuts for the leveling feet.

I used some 3/8" hot rolled I had laying around. I set a chunk of it in the W.F. Wells and let er rip.

Top tip, if you're sawing through a thick plate, you can set some round stock on the rear of the vise and tilt the plate a little. This allows the blade to cut a smaller cross section and speeds up the cut. It especially helps on a saw like mine, where the blade drops evenly on twin posts, instead of on a hinge.

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Unfortunatley, the stock I had was too short to get 2 parts out of 1 strip so I had to cut 4 and stack them for the last cut. They're getting welded to the bottom of the feet, so I didn't get too fussy with the lengths.

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I used a set of small toothed blocks from a mill strap clamp set to space the vise and keep even pressure on the plates.

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Using the 20" Walker Turner and the Bridgeport I poked some 3/4" holes in the caps.

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First a root pass, then up onto the rotary table for the cover bead.

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That's all for now, I must go back into the shop and make some more progress!
 
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MoonRise

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Hmmm, let's see now ...

10 ft long x 30" wide (guess) x 1.25" thick = 1273 lbs of steel top

Wow. :bowdown:

Good tip on angling the flat bar/plate in the band saw when cutting it. :)

Although that 1-1/4 plate will sag a bit less than your former 3/4 plate top, it will still droop a little (even on a 4x4 frame work).

If you are really wanting it to be flat, you might want to incorporate some sort of leveling shims or screw-adjustment pads coming up through the 4x4 framework. Just a thought.

Waiting to see how this all turns out ... :rocker:
 
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dr_clyde

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Holland, MI
Hmmm, let's see now ...

10 ft long x 30" wide (guess) x 1.25" thick = 1273 lbs of steel top

Wow. :bowdown:

Good tip on angling the flat bar/plate in the band saw when cutting it. :)

Although that 1-1/4 plate will sag a bit less than your former 3/4 plate top, it will still droop a little (even on a 4x4 frame work).

If you are really wanting it to be flat, you might want to incorporate some sort of leveling shims or screw-adjustment pads coming up through the 4x4 framework. Just a thought.

Waiting to see how this all turns out ... :rocker:

Its 48" wide...

The deflection is very minimal. I have the plate suspended by the 4 corners now, and the center only droops just enough to let a touch of light in. Maybe .015". The frame will have shimming capabilities, and should be able to get out any distortion.
 

MoonRise

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Its 48" wide...

The deflection is very minimal. I have the plate suspended by the 4 corners now, and the center only droops just enough to let a touch of light in. Maybe .015". The frame will have shimming capabilities, and should be able to get out any distortion.

recalc then ...

10' x 48" x 1.25" = 2038 lb

Hmmmph. 15 thou of sag. Oh, the huge manatee! :spit:

Just figured I'd mention the shim or adjustment screws, in case you hadn't thought of it.

But you did. :beer:

Are you going to drill the top or leave it solid? Or am I just asking questions that you are going to show and tell us in pictures and words as you go through the project? :D
 
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dr_clyde

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Holland, MI
recalc then ...

10' x 48" x 1.25" = 2038 lb

Hmmmph. 15 thou of sag. Oh, the huge manatee! :spit:

Just figured I'd mention the shim or adjustment screws, in case you hadn't thought of it.

But you did. :beer:

Are you going to drill the top or leave it solid? Or am I just asking questions that you are going to show and tell us in pictures and words as you go through the project? :D


Haha I plan to show and tell as I go, but questions are fine. Sometimes it makes me think of better ways to do things.
 

sberry

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Personally would limit drilling till I had to, maybe keep it along an end or edge so nothing wants to fall thru. As much as a guy likes to think not they get used for other than welding, someone spills on it etc nice to be able to clean it. Might even find a chunk of liner plate for more crude work. Its really too nice for me,,, hahaha
 
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dr_clyde

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Holland, MI
I tacked the feet on to the legs with the TIG and then I burned in the actual weld with some 7018. I prefer stick welding on these outside corners on relatively thick steel because the bead looks nicer and its easier for to get a good weld than with the MIG. Generally speaking, 1/4" plate is my general cutoff for short-arc MIG. My machines are capable of more, I just would rather stick weld when the metal gets thicker or switch to spray. Anyway, here's some shots of the feet getting fitup and welded on.

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My next move was to cut all the steel for the receivers and supports directly under the tabletop. These were cut from 2-1/2" tubing either 1/4" wall or 3/16" wall depending on whether the tube would be acting as a receiver or not. The ends are 3/16", the long ones and center are 1/4". All tacked up on the bottom of the table top.

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I liked the 2" reciever locations on the old table so I decided to carry that feature over unchanged.

6" long covers all my various attachments and are super easy to make. These get peppered around the table in even intervals.

I first drilled some holes to accept a weld nut.

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Everything gets deburred inside with the band file.

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These weld nuts are great. Available from McMaster, you simply drill the corresponding pilot hole and the nut self locates over the hole.

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The finished part.

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That's all for now, I should be able to make some good strides this weekend.

Thanks for looking.

:thumbup:
 
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dr_clyde

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Personally would limit drilling till I had to, maybe keep it along an end or edge so nothing wants to fall thru. As much as a guy likes to think not they get used for other than welding, someone spills on it etc nice to be able to clean it. Might even find a chunk of liner plate for more crude work. Its really too nice for me,,, hahaha

I will drill the grid as soon as I have time. There isn't a hole on the old one that hasn't had use. The other guys in the shop are already complaining that we can't use the drop in clamps. They are so handy. :)
 

tarbellb

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Oregon
Awesome build, following and drooling.

Question: those weld on nuts are great. After looking at them on MC they are listed at "rockwell hardness B70" which according to my very crude research and limited math skills seems to be about half of what a Grade 8 would be.

Have you used these with success? I really want to like them.
 
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matt_i

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Personally I think it will be just fine as far as deflection. The upper and lower beams, when tied together on the center and end, act as sort of a truss...just think about how wooden trusses (parallel ones for floor joists) are built, the cross-bracing you need for wood isn't needed when the joints are rigidly joined via welding. Another way to think of it is that 2 parallel tubes need to be flexed instead of a single one.

I feel certain you already know this, but I would limit mig welding on your nice bench as much as possible... the metal globules can be gently dressed down but its going to remove the nice Blanchard marks.

I have a 1" plate for my welding bench, not ground, just A36 plate and its very excellent. 6" channel ladder frame underneath.
 

Jackfre

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Curious what types of fixtures you use with the receiver tubes. Can you show a couple shots of them. Thanks for the lead on the Mc Master products.
 
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dr_clyde

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What did it cost for the blanchard grind?

Hard to say, I ordered the plate ground. I had a grind quoted separate from another shop with me supplying the plate and it was around $750-800. Depends on if you have a shop nearby with a grinder big enough. In your case, you'd be all set. Detroit has some big grinding shops nearby. I had mine done in Detroit.
 

Strouty

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So is this going to be an almost exact copy of the original or are there some improvements that you are making?
 

JeremyBurke

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My next big shop project is going to be a welding fab bench. While it will pale in comparison to this project it is cool to see what the pro's do for inspiration.
 
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dr_clyde

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Curious what types of fixtures you use with the receiver tubes. Can you show a couple shots of them. Thanks for the lead on the Mc Master products.


The recievers are for a large variety of stuff, but there are only a couple that get used daily. My Wilton vise never really leaves the bench. It gets moved around a fair bit, but its almost always installed.

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This little baldor grinder holds my tungsten grinding wheels, and if I am doing a ton of bench work, I'll install it right next to me so I don't even have to get up to sharpen my electrode. Otherwise it lives in this base you see here.

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I have mounts for other grinders, my JD² tube bender, and a small buffer.

I eventually plan to get a Beverly shear, and that will get a mount too.

The idea is to have the mounts for whatever ideas could utilize them. I'm sure I'll come up with some more tools to fit them.
 

bczygan

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Hard to say, I ordered the plate ground. I had a grind quoted separate from another shop with me supplying the plate and it was around $750-800. Depends on if you have a shop nearby with a grinder big enough. In your case, you'd be all set. Detroit has some big grinding shops nearby. I had mine done in Detroit.

Yes, I was checking local shops, and they have very big grinders.

We used a local shop near 23 and Gratiot, but I don't know what size they had.

I wonder about a table your size flexing, even with the continuous support under it. If the floor is uneven, will it have an effect? Is there a way to check?
 
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dr_clyde

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Ok guys, here's a progress update.

I got the top and bottom frames welded and ready to go on. With the help of Gabby the green forklift, I was able to get the two halves clamped to the legs and squared with the world. Working alone sometimes requires some clever use of rigging equipment.

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Got the center support columns in and everything all tacked up and ready to weld.

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Wait, what's that? More sawing and drilling? Yes, more brackets in all their tedious glory. These probably could have been laser cut to save time, but I wanted them today, so I made them from cold rolled instead. I set the saw up on 45° miters and cut a bunch of .5"x 1.5" blanks from bar.

I really don't like cutting miters with this saw. Its a real pain in the ****. The vise was designed by a real bozo. It requires unbolting the back jaw and inserting a spacer bar to kick the jaw at whatever angle you need. It *****. However, the cold saw was over to the plant, had the wrong blade in it, and this was a full bar, so laziness won and I dealt with the stupid vise.

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A little bit of layout work, and then off to the drill press.

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I won't bore you will the drilling details, (pun intended) but these little brackets will hold the top to the base. I will drill and tap the top to accept 5/8-11 SHCS and then I can insert shims in between the top and base if needed and pull everything tight.

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That's all for now, I'm hungry and require food and beer. I will come back after supper and continue. Thanks for looking.
 
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dr_clyde

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Yes, I was checking local shops, and they have very big grinders.

We used a local shop near 23 and Gratiot, but I don't know what size they had.

I wonder about a table your size flexing, even with the continuous support under it. If the floor is uneven, will it have an effect? Is there a way to check?

You can check with long straight edges. I will be building shimming abilities into the frame to take out what little droop there will be. As it sits, the top has about .015" when only supported by the corners. The frame is very stiff, and it shouldn't be a problem with shims if needed. If I really, really need to do something, I can put an adjustment foot in the very center to support the middle. I don't think it will come to that though.
 

bsg

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Imlay City, MI
Ok guys, here's a progress update.

I got the top and bottom frames welded and ready to go on. With the help of Gabby the green forklift, I was able to get the two halves clamped to the legs and squared with the world. Working alone sometimes requires some clever use of rigging equipment.

17869486580_45a79a4e0b_c.jpg


18030677196_1d8c5711eb_c.jpg


17870914619_4176a71bc6_c.jpg


18057151115_ecffeb25fd_c.jpg


Got the center support columns in and everything all tacked up and ready to weld.

17436584623_7d42f68f99_c.jpg


17869193018_dfd18ef32f_c.jpg


Wait, what's that? More sawing and drilling? Yes, more brackets in all their tedious glory. These probably could have been laser cut to save time, but I wanted them today, so I made them from cold rolled instead. I set the saw up on 45° miters and cut a bunch of .5"x 1.5" blanks from bar.

I really don't like cutting miters with this saw. Its a real pain in the ****. The vise was designed by a real bozo. It requires unbolting the back jaw and inserting a spacer bar to kick the jaw at whatever angle you need. It *****. However, the cold saw was over to the plant, had the wrong blade in it, and this was a full bar, so laziness won and I dealt with the stupid vise.

18058021291_8af6ddda4e_c.jpg


A little bit of layout work, and then off to the drill press.

17870892989_2b480d7dcc_c.jpg


I won't bore you will the drilling details, (pun intended) but these little brackets will hold the top to the base. I will drill and tap the top to accept 5/8-11 SHCS and then I can insert shims in between the top and base if needed and pull everything tight.

18030637576_a7a58b2acf_c.jpg


That's all for now, I'm hungry and require food and beer. I will come back after supper and continue. Thanks for looking.

May I make a suggestion about cutting angles in your horizontal bandsaw?

The shop I used to work at we had the same problem, my solution was to use a ground plate with a grid of 1/2 13 tapped holes the size of the max capacity of the machine, you then put the plate in just clear of the blade in the vise of the machine and now you can set up the parts at any angle you need.....I would use blocks clamped in place if I needed more than one part.

One other bit of info, be careful with the leveling feet, they don't like to be side loaded.
We had some techs try and move test stands and a couple of the feet failed, I was surprised how easily they were destroyed!

The table looks great by the way!

Kevin
 
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Boost Creep

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michigan
nice table! i'm not too far from you. mind sharing where you acquired your top plate from and where you had it ground? pm me if you don't want to post it here. i'm hoping to build a nice table later this summer so some sources for those would be excellent. do you plan on drilling your own holes in the top?
 
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dr_clyde

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Holland, MI
nice table! i'm not too far from you. mind sharing where you acquired your top plate from and where you had it ground? pm me if you don't want to post it here. i'm hoping to build a nice table later this summer so some sources for those would be excellent. do you plan on drilling your own holes in the top?

I bought my top from Alro Steel. They took care of the grinding as well. They told me they had it ground near Detroit. It took about 2-1/2 weeks lead time. I am very happy with the price and service from Alro. They don't take in outside grinding work though, so you have to buy the plate from them if you want to go that route.

If you have a plate, you can hire the grinding done pretty reasonable. The size of my table was a factor in finding a shop that could grind it. Steelcraft Technologies in Belmont has a grinder big enough. If you're looking for a smaller (4'x8') Good Metals out of Grand Rapids can handle something that size.

I do plan to drill my own holes. I have a mag drill and some rotobroach cutters that will handle the job nicely.
 

ATC

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VA
OK....you have too much equipment, too big a shop, too much steel, and too much skill!

How about sharing some with me :D :bowdown:


I love it! Can't wait to see it finished...
 
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