The Infamous Honda Crank Bolt - Which Path to Travel?

Spudland_Dave · Jun 2, 2015

Ok, so the good part of the story is I got a tool I need to shop for either way :rocker:

Getting ready to do the timing belt on the 97 Accord...gonna need to pop off the crank bolt.

My current impact is a Craftsman HD: http://www.craftsman.com/craftsman-1-2-in-heavy-duty-impact-wrench/p-00919984000P?prdNo=3&blockNo=3&blockType=G3 I really don't want to talk about it...its a sore subject for me...But its what I got... :sad:

My Dad has an IR 261 (his is about 7-8 years old..looks just like the 261 currently on the IR Page..?? if its actually a 261 without calling him)

I see 2 roads I can take here...one is a "sure shot" the other is a leap of faith...

Which would you guys do...get the fancy weighted crank sockets like the SnapOn/BP CBSM19 and pray my CMan gun does it, or go with a standard 19mm-3/4" Drive socket on the big boy IR gun?

I don't want to buy BOTH...

MrGiggles · Jun 2, 2015

Brace a breaker bar and socket against the lower control arm or garage floor, and bump the engine over with the starter. Assuming the starter turns the right direction.

Spudland_Dave · Jun 2, 2015

MrGiggles said:
Brace a breaker bar and socket against the lower control arm or garage floor, and bump the engine over with the starter. Assuming the starter turns the right direction.

While I've seen that done...seems like an unsafe, mickey mouse way of doing things with greater possibility of something bad happening. IMHO I'd rather buy the right tool and do it correctly.

lashlee · Jun 2, 2015

I've got one of the Honda crank pulley tools and use my IR2135 with no issues. I think I got the specialty tool from Amazon for under $50.

MrGiggles · Jun 2, 2015

Spudland_Dave said:
While I've seen that done...seems like an unsafe, mickey mouse way of doing things with greater possibility of something bad happening. IMHO I'd rather buy the right tool and do it correctly.

Understandable. I had to do it once on a Toyota that nothing else worked on.

If I were in your shoes, I'd just try it first with the IR and see if it does the job. No need to buy the expensive crank sockets that you'll seldom use if you don't need them.

Kracin · Jun 2, 2015

MrGiggles said:
Brace a breaker bar and socket against the lower control arm or garage floor, and bump the engine over with the starter. Assuming the starter turns the right direction.

people that do starter bumps typically don't possess the knowledge or the tools (or the muscle) to get them off.

a lot of honda engines don't work with that trick either. now if you want a real pain in the *** to get off. honda crankbolts are only torqued to 150ish ft/lbs. supra crankbolts are 237ft/lbs and they require some serious muscle to pop.

best to grab a large breaker bar and some exhaust pipe for a long cheater and give it hell.

signcrafter · Jun 2, 2015

Spudland_Dave said:
While I've seen that done...seems like an unsafe, mickey mouse way of doing things with greater possibility of something bad happening. IMHO I'd rather buy the right tool and do it correctly.

Personally I would never bump the starter to get a crank bolt out. I haven't used those weighted sockets yet but have read good things about them. How much is the one socket for you honda crank bolt? But if your choice is between this one socket and a new impact gun I think I would lean towards a new impact since you will use it far more on other future repairs then this one socket.

seans883 · Jun 2, 2015

This has worked great for me before heat the bolt with a torch propane will work. Then take a cool wet rag and cool the head of the bolt and quickly loosen the bolt. This was a tip form an old honda mechanic.

dnschmidt · Jun 2, 2015

I believe that the Honda crank bolt is tight because the engine rotates the opposite of every other crank bolt meaning that it continuously tightens the bolt while running. Both of my Aircat impacts: 1200K and 1250K have never failed to remove these. I think the special Honda tool only works with manual breaker bars and are unneeded if you have a serious impact.

Here's the deal with the 261. All 3/4" impacts intermittently require a huge volume of air that MANDATES the use of 1/2" inner diameter air line with 3/8" connectors. If you use a normal 3/8" ID airline with 1/4 connectors with any 3/4" impact they will perform worse than a 1/2" model as they are intentionally designed to work with higher air flows. If you have the right compressor and the right hose the 3/4" impact will work. Without one or the other you've got a better chance with a quality 1/2" impact.

jobo1004 · Jun 2, 2015

Spudland_Dave said:
While I've seen that done...seems like an unsafe, mickey mouse way of doing things with greater possibility of something bad happening. IMHO I'd rather buy the right tool and do it correctly.

Fairly sure this engine spins counterclockwise so it won't work. That's also why this bolt is such a bear to remove. The longer it's been since the last timing belt, the tighter the bolt is. I just changed the timing belt on my 2005 Honda Civic and the Milwaukee Fuel 1/2" impact (2763-20) felt like it was just barely able to remove it.

Spudland_Dave · Jun 2, 2015

signcrafter said:
Personally I would never bump the starter to get a crank bolt out. I haven't used those weighted sockets yet but have read good things about them. How much is the one socket for you honda crank bolt? But if your choice is between this one socket and a new impact gun I think I would lean towards a new impact since you will use it far more on other future repairs then this one socket.

I'd love to get a new impact...but its not in the cards..long story I still have a bitter taste in my mouth over, so I'll borrow my Dad's 3/4" IR instead.

Q for you guys who have done this before....DEEP or Shallow Socket needed?

Shootingblanks · Jun 2, 2015

Man up.....last year I did my timing belt on my Honda Ridgeline and used the Honda special crank socket tool and a 1/2 breaker bar with a cheater. I got it off and I was 4 weeks post surgery from having a partial nephrectomy, with about a 14" long incision.

I would advise not to bump the starter and acquire the proper tools to do the job correctly.

Also dealer manual states to not use impact on install:

Spudland_Dave · Jun 2, 2015

dnschmidt said:
Here's the deal with the 261. All 3/4" impacts intermittently require a huge volume of air that MANDATES the use of 1/2" inner diameter air line with 3/8" connectors. If you use a normal 3/8" ID airline with 1/4 connectors with any 3/4" impact they will perform worse than a 1/2" model as they are intentionally designed to work with higher air flows. If you have the right compressor and the right hose the 3/4" impact will work. Without one or the other you've got a better chance with a quality 1/2" impact.

Very true...And its why I upgraded to Parker RF couplers (Milton V style)...which would flow more then a standard 3/8" I/M Connector... It really woke up my 1/2", and makes the 3/4" happy....

blackwire · Jun 2, 2015

Honda crankshaft bolts just laugh at my 1/2" corded Milwaukee impact wrench. It is rated at 300ft lbs, so whatever you use has to be a lot more powerful than that. I had to use the Honda crankshaft pulley holder tool and 2 breaker bars to remove it. Use a 1/2 breaker bar on the pulley holder and a 3/4 on the crankshaft bolt. You will probably have to use a pipe with the breaker bar.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000TMLWQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

joe_padavano · Jun 2, 2015

I've done several Civics. I just block the flywheel and torque away with a normal socket. It takes less time than reading this thread.

3axap · Jun 2, 2015

Did a '96 Accord timing belt a couple of years ago. I used the previously recommended and linked pulley holder tool. With the car on jack stands, I put a breaker bar on the holder tool and braced it against the car chassis. You can use a regular depth socket for the crank bolt. I used an impact socket with several long 1/2" extensions. This allowed me to bring the breaker bar I used for turning the bolt outside of the wheel well. I used a jack stand to support the 1/2" extensions where the breaker bar attached to them. After that, a long pipe over the breaker bar made for a fairly quick removal of the bolt. This sounds complicated, but it really isn't. Its just a way to get your breaker bar out of the engine bay and into some clear air. This can even be done with the car on the ground and the wheel turned all the way to the left. Honda left a hole in the fender liner for you to access the crank bolt without much disassembly. HTH

cagullett1 · Jun 2, 2015

Buy this: http://www.amazon.com/Powerbuilt-648796-Cranks-Pulley-Removal/dp/B0000TMLWQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1433253885&sr=8-1&keywords=honda+crank , you will be happy you did.

AV tinker er · Jun 2, 2015

My HF 1/2" earthquake was and to get the crank bolt to turn.

454ragtop · Jun 2, 2015

You guys crack me up. Don't bump the starter to break the bolt loose, put a piece of pipe on your breaker bar instead. Seriously? The starter bump trick works very well, just usually not on Hondas since they turn the wrong way, you'll only end up tightening it.

zkling · Jun 2, 2015

Depends on how bad yours is corroded. If you can get it up high enough to get a good angle on it without an extension a set of 1/2" breaker bars is all you need. Some get so bad that there is no other option besides a torch. Try what you have first, including your craftsman 1/2" impact. If all you are doing is one I wouldn't waste the money on a special weighted socket. I've at least a dozen and usually go for the 1/2" impact then breaker bars then if neither of those work, borrow a friends 3/4" gun. Those are usually only for the driven all year, sit outside, long overdue for a change cars. Start by soaking it in penetrating oil for a few days.

A friend and I exploded a 3/4" drive extension on one, then the 3/4" gun came out. Problem solved.

And yes I agree, the starter idea is a bad one. While it may be able to take it a time or two, you won't know how far you pushed it till it breaks soon down the road.

one9gt · Jun 2, 2015

Get the special 50mm socket and be done with it. If you get the right kind with the bolt hole at the end of the socket handle, it lines up with a bolt hole on the frame. Put in a 8mm x 1.25 bolt to hold the socket and go at it with a breaker bar. Done!

Adam.C · Jun 2, 2015

dnschmidt said:
I believe that the Honda crank bolt is tight because the engine rotates the opposite of every other crank bolt meaning that it continuously tightens the bolt while running.

Yep Honda engines turn counterclockwise as you look at the crank shaft pulley. So a breaker bar and bumping the starter would tighten the bolt.

I'm hearing that you need close to 1000ftlbs to remove this bolt. There's a youtube video showing how well the socket works. These engines are partially behind the super high output race in cordless impacts. I think this is a mistake to particiapte in. You shouldn't need a 1000ftlb gun for a passenger car. This one bolt (I'm hearing) is the one that drove the need for these big guns.

I'm not sure where to get the sockets. I heard they are IR and bluepoint is merely rebranding them for Snap On. I also hear they can break so factor that into your decision.

Spudland_Dave · Jun 2, 2015

one9gt said:
Get the special 50mm socket and be done with it. If you get the right kind with the bolt hole at the end of the socket handle, it lines up with a bolt hole on the frame. Put in a 8mm x 1.25 bolt to hold the socket and go at it with a breaker bar. Done!

Which one exactly are you referring to? Got a link...sounds like its the right tool for the job when dealing with Hand-power..

Adam.C said:
I'm hearing that you need close to 1000ftlbs to remove this bolt. There's a youtube video showing how well the socket works. These engines are partially behind the super high output race in cordless impacts. I think this is a mistake to particiapte in. You shouldn't need a 1000ftlb gun for a passenger car. This one bolt (I'm hearing) is the one that drove the need for these big guns.

Yes, in more then one discussion both on here and in person, the gold standard, golden benchmark, real world tests for an impact seems to be if it can wrestle with one of these Honda Crank bolts...

WhiffySpark · Jun 2, 2015

One method doesn't work every time. I've had bolts I couldn't break loose by hand and had to use a 1 inch gun. Some come right out with my 2235

PureLeaf · Jun 2, 2015

I only work on my family's cars in my garage, not a professional. I used my 1/2 IR on a 2000 honda civic crank bolt. The civic laughed as if I'd tickled it. Went to Autozone, rented the crank bolt socket tool they have, put a breaker bar on it touching the floor. Then used a separate 24 in breaker bar on the crank bolt, and after a few hernias finally got it. Absolute bear of a task.

Spudland_Dave · Jun 2, 2015

Found a pic of the tool mentioned by one9gt:

34944d1242875406-diy-timing-belt-honda_crankshaft_pulley_holder02.gif

Makes sense to me...now I gotta find the tool...and debate 3/4" Impact or Armstrong methods...

crbnfbr · Jun 2, 2015

blackwire said:
Honda crankshaft bolts just laugh at my 1/2" corded Milwaukee impact wrench. It is rated at 300ft lbs, so whatever you use has to be a lot more powerful than that. I had to use the Honda crankshaft pulley holder tool and 2 breaker bars to remove it. Use a 1/2 breaker bar on the pulley holder and a 3/4 on the crankshaft bolt. You will probably have to use a pipe with the breaker bar.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000TMLWQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

My 300ft/lbs Milwaukee corded impact worked perfectly on my 04 TL crank bolt. Only issue I had was the tensioner bolt that snapped off while removing it when I did my timing belt.

malykaii · Jun 2, 2015

It's very hit or miss here. I've had ones come right out with my nitrocat gun. We also had only a 10 year old odesey where not even the 1inch gun did it. Ultimatly it was gentle torching with a 1/2 bar in a 6ft pipe that got it to go. Took three guys too. I was worried we were going to pull the car off the lift before the bold would budge.

Luck of the draw, go in for the worst yet hope for the best.

blackwire · Jun 2, 2015

3axap said:
Did a '96 Accord timing belt a couple of years ago. I used the previously recommended and linked pulley holder tool. With the car on jack stands, I put a breaker bar on the holder tool and braced it against the car chassis. You can use a regular depth socket for the crank bolt. I used an impact socket with several long 1/2" extensions. This allowed me to bring the breaker bar I used for turning the bolt outside of the wheel well. I used a jack stand to support the 1/2" extensions where the breaker bar attached to them. After that, a long pipe over the breaker bar made for a fairly quick removal of the bolt. This sounds complicated, but it really isn't. Its just a way to get your breaker bar out of the engine bay and into some clear air. This can even be done with the car on the ground and the wheel turned all the way to the left. Honda left a hole in the fender liner for you to access the crank bolt without much disassembly. HTH

I did mine the same way, 1/2" breaker bars with extensions, pipe, pulley holder, and a jack stand. Ended up breaking the breaker bar on the crank bolt in the process, although the replacement I got worked fine. If I had to do it over again I would use a 3/4" breaker bar with extensions. Hopefully the 3/4" breaker bar would be less likely to break.

Kracin · Jun 2, 2015

zkling said:
Depends on how bad yours is corroded. If you can get it up high enough to get a good angle on it without an extension a set of 1/2" breaker bars is all you need. Some get so bad that there is no other option besides a torch. Try what you have first, including your craftsman 1/2" impact. If all you are doing is one I wouldn't waste the money on a special weighted socket. I've at least a dozen and usually go for the 1/2" impact then breaker bars then if neither of those work, borrow a friends 3/4" gun. Those are usually only for the driven all year, sit outside, long overdue for a change cars. Start by soaking it in penetrating oil for a few days.

A friend and I exploded a 3/4" drive extension on one, then the 3/4" gun came out. Problem solved.

And yes I agree, the starter idea is a bad one. While it may be able to take it a time or two, you won't know how far you pushed it till it breaks soon down the road.

that has to be a bad 3/4 extension. i've hammered on 3/4 extensions and put over 1300 ftlbs (torque multipliers) on them with no ill effects for years on the same extension. armstrong brand though

thachman · Jun 2, 2015

blackwire said:
I did mine the same way, 1/2" breaker bars with extensions, pipe, pulley holder, and a jack stand. Ended up breaking the breaker bar on the crank bolt in the process, although the replacement I got worked fine. If I had to do it over again I would use a 3/4" breaker bar with extensions. Hopefully the 3/4" breaker bar would be less likely to break.

This is basically how I had to do mine. I first tried my IR231 and it just laughed at it. Tried heat, didn't help. Finally just used a piece of chain link fence post as a cheater bar on my breaker, and it broke free after I put all 225lbs of my weight on it. Sounded like a gunshot when it finally broke free. That bolt is a ***** to get off.

RedRabbit · Jun 2, 2015

Heat up the bolt a bit then use the 3/4s impact and it'll come off.

zkling · Jun 2, 2015

Kracin said:
that has to be a bad 3/4 extension. i've hammered on 3/4 extensions and put over 1300 ftlbs (torque multipliers) on them with no ill effects for years on the same extension. armstrong brand though

It wasn't a truck brand. Kobalt or craftsman maybe :headscrat

: Didn't help that I had a ~8' pipe on it. I was smart enough to wrap the joint in a towel as one side of the female square completely cracked off with good force. We thought the bolt finally broke free. Nope.

The car was well overdue, never been done before and was driven year around in a humid summer, salty winter climate.

skylinegtr20 · Jun 2, 2015

The solution: Ingersol Rand 19mm Power Socket

No idea if it works however haha. Have always used a 3/4" gun and never had a problem.

Moose-LandTran · Jun 2, 2015

Spudland_Dave said:
Found a pic of the tool mentioned by one9gt:

Makes sense to me...now I gotta find the tool...and debate 3/4" Impact or Armstrong methods...

I much prefer the ones with a fixed handle. I have one that a 1/2" break bar goes into and we've sheared a breaker bar using it.

Fixed handle is the way to go, no substitute for the right tool:

Not even expensive:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Acura...hash=item2a5095fe6e&item=181740633710&vxp=mtr

warmpancakes · Jun 2, 2015

honda crank bolts are tough but you have access to them , feeling manly go to work on a dirty max it torques to 250 on install

Colin Len · Jun 2, 2015

Moose-LandTran said:
Not even expensive:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Acura...hash=item2a5095fe6e&item=181740633710&vxp=mtr

Agreed, the other one on amazon which was linked is a bit difficult to use since the breaker bar can slip a lot. Wish I would have known of this one on ebay before I bought the one from Amazon.

colin39 · Jun 2, 2015

I 1st went old skool , took a 19mm deep socket slid it inside a 28mm socket, then ran a big **** weld around the 2 making them 1. Worked a treat for years i then recently bought the blue point set, looks better and works just as well.

these ones

downthemachine · Jun 2, 2015

Like mentioned, 1/2 ratchet, extensions, jack stands. I also used a 6 foot pipe on the ratchet

jobo1004 · Jun 2, 2015

downthemachine said:
Like mentioned, 1/2 ratchet, extensions, jack stands. I also used a 6 foot pipe on the ratchet

In case it's not clear from everyone's descriptions, here's a youtube video showing the jack stand method. You're going to need the pulley holder whether you use an impact or not, for when you go to tighten it manually. As I recall there is a torque spec for it and then you turn it 90 degrees from there.

The Infamous Honda Crank Bolt - Which Path to Travel?

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