1940's post/beam garage with sagging ridge and 2-3" wall bow

tyrenta · Jun 22, 2015

Hi all,

First post -- I just moved into a 19th century home with a not much younger garage, that to the best of my knowledge was relocated to its current position at one point. Even better, it seems to be professionally unengineered, but to be fair there really isn't much to it to engineer.

To the point -- the ridge beam has a very noticeable sag, and the side walls best I could measure w/ a plumb bob are 2-3" bowed at center top. Trusses are minimal 2x4 every third, reinforced here and there. lastly the

It hasn't fallen down in 75+ years, and has a nice rustic character to it, so I don't want to go nuts or destroy its historic nature, but I'm concerned a heavy snow could do it in. If I am going to have any professional work done I'd consider springing for raising the trusses 1/3 of the way up to gain some more work space, though not critical.

Any advice for the best course of action? Is it dangerous to go the cable/come-along fix very (very) slowly over the course of weeks to shore it up a bit before reinforcing? I assume a contractor wouldn't have the patience for that. Do I need center pole support/jack stands if I go that route?

pics below....thanks for any advice

bczygan · Jun 22, 2015

It's not old enough, nor does it have any interesting Architectural style, that would merit trying to leave it untouched.

It's a standard garage for the era. There are millions of them just like it all over the country.

And many have the same problems as yours. I'm looking out my window, at one across the street, right now.

The problem is a lack of ceiling joists to tie the walls together. You have joists and rafters, not trusses. If left as is, it will get progressively worse, the garage door will bind and get damaged or stuck, and it will eventually fail.

Your combination of solutions are correct. Jack up the ridge and pull the walls together with cables in as many places as practicable.

Then install a number of ceiling joists of the correct size for the span. Secure and fasten them to the walls with metal straps.

Do you have just one layer of shingles? If more than one, and due for a strip and reroof, then that is the opportune time to do this.

Also, is the foundation level and stable? That can be a contributing factor, as many of them built in this era are not very good. Also check your sill plates and walls and top plates for water leakage and damage.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Bill

tyrenta · Jun 22, 2015

Bill thanks for the quick reply. I realize there isn't anything special to it, I just like the character, reminds me of my grandfathers garage.

I did have the same concerns on the roofing re: the cableing -- the roof was done when the house was I would guess ~15 years ago, so it still has another decade to go (at least according to my inspector). Not sure the best course of action there.

I'm not overly familiar with the process for correcting this. My concerns if anyone has any feedback:

1) most importantly, what are the dangers of cabling the walls/jacking the ridge beam? What should I look for that I am jacking or cabling too much or out of sync?

2) How much should be corrected vs. just arresting the deterioration?

3) I think it's about 20x20 -- how far about should the cables be spaced ideally? Do they need to cross corner to corner?

4) The ridge beam has that hanging 2x4 that intersects the trusses. It of course gets in the way of trying to jack from below -- what is the best course of action?

5) related, can the walls be pulled in without jacking the ridge beam at the same time, or are both necessary?

6) Last one! For the cables, are eye hooks screwed laterally to the top of the wall sufficient? Or do I need to drill bolts or similar down from the top?

tcianci · Jun 22, 2015

As mentioned, it's pretty standard fare for a garage. And as mentioned, you have a rafter type frame, not trusses. Also, you do not have a ridge beam, you have a ridge board which simply helps align and locate the rafters laterally so that they oppose each other and transfer the roof loads to the exterior walls. A ridge beam on the other hand, would be an actual structural member which would transfer roof loads down to the foundation via the gable ends of the building. You have correctly diagnosed what's going on, the walls have spread due to the lack of constraining ceiling joists to limit the spread of the walls.

If you attempt to "pull" the building back into shape without jacking the ridge board at the same time, you're going to have a fight on your hands. That board has taken a set over the years and just tugging the walls together won't make it come back too easily.

Your idea of using cables to hold the building in place, is going to exert tremendous pressure on the framing members where the cables are attached. And you certainly don't want to install cables diagonally unless you know the building to be out of square and you want to right it.

A simple and effective solution to the problem that can be accomplished with common tools and a couple come-alongs and that would keep you frrom having to jack the ridge at the same time as you pull the walls would be to remove the ridge cap shingles and detach the rafters from the ridge board with a saws-all and a long metal cutting blade. Even though the rafters are cut free of the ridge, they're not going anywhere because the rafters are in compression against the ridge. You need not detach all of them, maybe just 20 feet or so, 10 feet ahead of the center of the length of the ridge and 10 feet after.

Once the rafters are free, it will be easy to draw the walls inward with 2 or 3 come-alongs. Pay attention to the plumbness of the walls as you pull them. Nothing says they are both out of plumb by the same amount or that they will pull back in evenly. You may have to brace one of the walls to constrain it if it gets to plumb before the other one.

The rafters will simply slide vertically along the ridge board. Once you get the building where it needs to be, install framing in the form of ceiling joists from one rafter to it's mate on the other side of the building, at every bay. The lower you install them, the more effective they will be at keeping the walls from spreading but you may want to bump them up somewhat to gain a higher ceiling.

Once the building is where you want it and the ceiling joists are secured, you can re-nail the rafters to the ridge board and custom cut a piece of framing lumber to drop in on top of the sagged ridge to give you additional nailing surface for the rafters. Remember, the ridge board is not structural, so you just want to get the rafters nailed so they don't want to twist on you.

Remember that you're not looking for perfection here either. Even a sag of a half to 3/4 of an inch won't show from the ground and can be effectively buried in your new ridge cap shingles.

Hope this helps!

rieferman · Jun 23, 2015

I trust the posters above for sure.

One question for tcianci... Would jacking the ridge simplify the process? I'd personally rather get my hands on some jacks, install some tempory lifting points spread across on the central rafters on either side of the ridge board (and down to the jacks on the floor below), and lift while using come alongs to pull the walls in. In my mind's eye this avoids sawzall and reroofing work, but my mind's eye doesn't ha e the benefit of your many years of experience. What do you think?

bczygan · Jun 23, 2015

tcianci gave a good explanation. And rieferman is right too.

I would try a combination of jacking at the ridge, along with pulling the walls, before pulling shingles.

And yes, things have taken a set, so you will need to jack and pull things slightly past their original positions, as they will try to go back to their settled condition.

Jacking takes some initial load off the walls, allowing you to draw them together. Work from the middle out and work a little at a time, going back to increase the movement little by little at each lifting and pulling point. Turnbuckles in the cables might help with adjustment.

Bill

bczygan · Jun 23, 2015

When sizing the ceiling joists, you may want to oversize them to give you storage capability, at least in part of the attic. Remember that the connection of the joists to the walls is critical. Don't just toenail. I use Simpson Strongtie metal plates like this H1:

This is also a chance to insulate, which will require eave and ridge venting.

And I might also leave the cables in place.

It's a nice garage, I'd do it right.

Bill

rieferman · Jun 23, 2015

And I think this paragraph by tcianci is very important:

draw the walls inward with 2 or 3 come-alongs. Pay attention to the plumbness of the walls as you pull them. Nothing says they are both out of plumb by the same amount or that they will pull back in evenly. You may have to brace one of the walls to constrain it if it gets to plumb before the other one.

Cyberbear · Jun 23, 2015

I had a similar situation with a 20' x 26' mountain/homesteader's cabin. The ridge sagged and the side walls bowed out, and the building would shift during our high winds.
My temporary solution was to install 3/16" wire cables and large turn buckles to hold everything in place as I gradually tightened everything back into place as best I could, over time, w/o causing any stress damage. Sometime later I installed additional bracing and reinforcement once everything was plumb as possible. My 1966 structure is strong and secure now and it didn't cost very much to accomplish, just time and labor.

theoldwizard1 · Jun 23, 2015

bczygan said:
I would try a combination of jacking at the ridge, along with pulling the walls, before pulling shingles.

And yes, things have taken a set, so you will need to jack and pull things slightly past their original positions, as they will try to go back to their settled condition.

Jacking takes some initial load off the walls, allowing you to draw them together. Work from the middle out and work a little at a time, going back to increase the movement little by little at each lifting and pulling point. Turnbuckles in the cables might help with adjustment.

CONCUR ! Especially with the first part.

As mentioned, the cause of all of this was lack of joists (cross beam) to hold the wall in. After things are square (or maybe a little past that). let thing sit for a couple of weeks.

Keeping things where you want them AFTER they are (close) to plumb will be an issue. Add rafter ties on every other rafter. Sistering new studs on straightened studs will help. If the rafter ties don't work, you will have to permanently install cross cables.

MagKarl · Jun 23, 2015

I would rig up 2-3 cheap cable comealongs or boat trailer winches. Harbor freight sells them pretty cheap. Then jack up the ridge a bit and take up the slack in the cables, then let it set a while. Periodically I'd jack a bit and snug the cables. I would try this over a long period of time in short pulls rather than one big pull. Cables will let you fine tune it as needed.

kbs2244 · Jun 23, 2015

This is not an overnight project.
I raised a home with an 18 inch sag, but it took several months.
It took years for the sag to occur, you cannot fix it in hours without breaking things.
I jacked every morning until I head some nail “pops”.
That told me I was at the stress point.
Some days it was a ½ inch lift, some days 2 inches.
You have to go “around the circle,” taking up the tension as you go.

As has been said you need to do the combination of jacking the ridge and pulling in the walls.
I like the idea of the large turnbuckles over the use of come-a-longs.
The bigger the better.
Look at the ones the power co.s use to keep the poles plumb for the ideal.
They could be left in place when everything is back in place.

For the ridge, I would go with 2 screw jacks, not hydraulics, they will leak down over the time frame needed.
The screw jacks will not “un-screw.”
A 4 or 6 foot long 4x6 to spread the force along the length of the ridge would be a good idea.
Do some research on how to do this.
Keeping everything absolutly plumb is very inportant to keep the joint where the jack meets the lifting post from "kneeing out."

Simple screw in eye-bolts will not be enough for the walls.
You will need through bolts with very large washers to spread the forces across the length of the top plates of the walls.
Custom made 4x4x1/4 inch angle irons with drilled holes for the eye-bolts would make strong washers that cold be left in place without being un-slightly.

This type thing is a very satisfying project. You can take your time and you are correcting someone’s mistakes.

66cj225 · Jun 23, 2015

You need to take a moment and establish the bases of the walls; a lot of times a structure this old will be on piers. Get the bottom level and plumb and work your way up. The acceptable for framing with boards is different than the modern held square by plywood. I bet there is something rotted on the bottom, and I can see the mold from a roof leak at the ridge. Try sampling some of the critical members with an ice pick or small screw driver. I've changed more than one sill in my lifetime. Steve

tyrenta · Jun 23, 2015

Thanks all for the much needed advice -- all makes sense. A few additional questions as I form my action plan, apologies of any of these are rookie:

1) While I'm at this, instead of adding ceiling joists, in order to gain some headroom which is limited, would it be sufficient to add both a 1/3 collar tie / 2/3 rafter tie instead on every other, and remove the existing joists? If so, should I, and if so how do I then fasten the lower tie or rafter to the wall correctly? I realize if I do this I wouldn't be able to leave the cables in place as several suggested, so another drawback I suppose, though I would like to gain some space if it would still be structurally OK.

2) is the existing perpendicular 2x4 that is hanging from the ridge board adding any structural support to the front/rear wall? I'm wondering if it can be removed or cut so I can jack the ridge board from below if necessary.

3) to avoid the issue above, and the fact that getting a heavy load spreading beam 15' up to the ridge beam on my own would be an acrobatic feat, I'd prefer to simply ******** center as was recommended by a few; assuming a roughly 20x20 garage, is one jack on each side of on center rafters sufficient? Still best to spread the load I would think? Is it better to be within a foot or two of center, or can I put the jack a few feet off center to make access to the roofline easier (lower to the ground). Is hardware available to use as a temporary lifting point on the rafter for the jack, or is that somethingn I build myself? Lastly, since it is quite elevated, is a homemade 4x4 (married 2x4s) strong enough to do the job, so I can be cheap and don't have to purchase 2 12'+ 4x4 posts, or are 4x4 wood posts not even strong enough?

4) I know this shouldn't be done all at once, but since I have time if doing it myself, what is a good rate to expect would give things sufficient time to settle -- 1/4"-1/2" a day? 1" a week? just trying to think through it.

5) For cable attachment -- would 2 cables be sufficient? Sounds like bolting eyebolts through horizontally is the way to go with some sufficient backing.

The foundation seems stable. the garage was moved at one point afaik so it's newer than the structure itself. The sill plates have some termite damage in places (inspector found), and seems to be hanging over the foundation at least in one place, though I haven't looked too closely. To your point 66cj225, how do I know if it's too far gone, and if so, does the whole structure then need to be jacked to replace it?

SweetD · Jun 23, 2015

I don't have any advice to add other than these guys on here know what they are talking about - and, there are several other threads over the past several years that have great timelines and pictures showing guys going through the same process.

Will be following your progress - post often with pics! Good luck -

Dave

tcianci · Jun 23, 2015

Many have mentioned, as did I, jacking the ridge and pulling the walls at the same time. This will turn the project into something that's going to take weeks if not months and when you're done, you have to hold the walls together to support the roof force and the force generated by the stress of the ridge board.

Will the "just jack everything" approach work? Maybe but remember if you do that, you're asking your newly plumbed walls and the collar ties/ rafter ties/ ceiling joists (pick one, maybe pick two ) to do more work than they should have to. Once everything is jacked, unless you provide support to counter the spring of the sagged ridge board, it's just going to fight you. And remember, since you're asking the rafters to straighten out the ridge and the rafter force is not normal to the ridge, the vectors say that you need to apply a lot more force through those rafters to keep the ridge straight than you did with a jack to initially straighten it.

The metal structural connectors shown above WILL NOT WORK. Period. The spreading force being exerted by the roof load on the walls is parallel to the nails that will be installed in the flange of that connector. The exact same failure will happen again. It's the wrong connector for the job, sorry. Nails work best when the forces applied to them are shear forces. If you install rafter ties, collar ties or ceiling joists, they must be nailed through that member and into the rafter so the nails are 90 degrees to the forces applied to them. Framing 101: you never assemble anything so that the forces on the nail are parallel to the nail.

Another good point that I failed to mention but thankfully someone else did is to force the building somewhat past the "good" point so that the walls are slightly inward at the top. Once the framing is supplemented and the corrective forces are removed, there will be some movement as the amended framing scheme assumes the loads of the building.

A lot of guys are still mentioning cables, I just don' see it doing as good of a job as a ceiling joist or rafter tie on each bay. But what do I know

66cj225 · Jun 23, 2015

To answer your question: "how do I know if it's too far gone?" if it's hanging over the foundation because somebody hit it with a car, it'll be ok. If it moved on its own due to rot, termites, or defective foundation, that's a totally different situation.

captain14 · Jun 23, 2015

Just to give you an idea what all is involved with pictures there are a couple of threads that I remember. Use the search function to find them

1. Fergie
2. Leaning tower piece of %#^€<# by Talonair (?)

theoldwizard1 · Jun 23, 2015

bczygan said:
I use Simpson Strongtie metal plates like this H1:

I am a big fan of brackets, but not in this case, at least not alone. That bracket is designed primarily to prevent up lift from a tornado or hurricane. I don't know how it will handle tension.

Adding joist with these bracket IN ADDITION TO collar/rafter ties so that you ca get some light duty high storage IS a good idea,

tyrenta · Jun 24, 2015

tcianci said:
Will the "just jack everything" approach work? Maybe but remember if you do that, you're asking your newly plumbed walls and the collar ties/ rafter ties/ ceiling joists (pick one, maybe pick two ) to do more work than they should have to. Once everything is jacked, unless you provide support to counter the spring of the sagged ridge board, it's just going to fight you. And remember, since you're asking the rafters to straighten out the ridge and the rafter force is not normal to the ridge, the vectors say that you need to apply a lot more force through those rafters to keep the ridge straight than you did with a jack to initially straighten it.

my ideal plan is collar + rafter ties, so I can gain another 2 feet of workspace above if I want to work on the car (top plat to bottom of ridge beam is just under 6 feet). But are you saying that is insufficient to correct the original problem because the ridge beam now has a permanent sag that is set in? If that's the case is there anything reasonable that can be done, or do I just have to live with the fact that it's not a complete fix?

tyrenta · Jun 24, 2015

captain14 said:
Just to give you an idea what all is involved with pictures there are a couple of threads that I remember. Use the search function to find them

1. Fergie
2. Leaning tower piece of %#^€<# by Talonair (?)

Thanks for these, I just read through both and they are super helpful.

And after further inspection looks like I have a bit more work to do: the right hand sill plate is pretty shot.

The garage footprint is exactly 20x20, with walls just under 8'h (including foundation) and 2 front doors on tracks 7.5'h x 8'w. The sill plates sits on a 1' concrete block foundation built on top of the floor slab. The rear and right hand sill plates are 4x6, thought the right has rotted down ~3/4" lower in places, tips to the outside, and hangs 1-2" off the block (while being squared up with the block on the left and rear). I'm not sure if the overhang is due to the whole wall shifting outward, or if the foundation wasn't properly sized when built, but I should be able to tell by inspecting the rear corners more closely.

The left hand sill plate for some reason is smaller (~2 1/2" high by 4" wide, with the studs resting on 2x4 where they meet the sill). The left side and rear appear in OK shape but I need to move a bunch of junk to really inspect them.

So my only question at this point is where to start? I assume I want to replace the sill plate first, meaning from what I've read in those two threads, jacking the right wall an inch or so so I can pull it out? Or is that not a good idea without the collar/rafter ties & straightening cables in place first?

Thanks everyone for the advice, I'll try and get some pics up later that show what I described above....

tcianci · Jun 24, 2015

tyrenta said:
my ideal plan is collar + rafter ties, so I can gain another 2 feet of workspace above if I want to work on the car (top plat to bottom of ridge beam is just under 6 feet). But are you saying that is insufficient to correct the original problem because the ridge beam now has a permanent sag that is set in? If that's the case is there anything reasonable that can be done, or do I just have to live with the fact that it's not a complete fix?

I didn't mean to imply that you can't fix it with rafter ties and collar ties, All I was trying to convey was that the whole process will go more easily with the rafters detached from the ridge board. In general from your comments and those of others, there seems to be a reluctance to detach the rafters. My suggestion would be to attempt the repair without taking anything apart, and see how it goes. I'm just looking at it from the point of view of a job where I would have to get in and out in a reasonable amount of time and deliver the project to the customer.

As far as your sills, just take them out in sections, it's unlikely that you will need to jack anything to remove or replace them, I've done it many times.

tyrenta · Nov 6, 2015

I'm finally getting ready to do this -- I'll be slowly jacking the ridge with screw jacks and a few feet of 4x6 under the ridge board, while pulling the walls together with two 1-ton come alongs spaced a few feet off center and 3/16" wire. (If this sounds unreasonable to anyone pls let me know).

My only question is the forces involved pulling the walls together. Is 3/16 wire with eye loops sufficient? How about securing the wire to the top framing member of the wall -- I know screws eyes are completely insufficient, but does anyone have any input on the following:

I was going to hook some 12-guage angle brackets around the top beam for horizontal load distribution and bolt through those from the top of the beam with a 3/8 or 1/2" carriage bolt. Then hook the cable loop over the top of the bolt. This seems to me more secure than using an eyebolt bolted through vertically, as the eyebolts at least from the nearby orange store are only rated for a few hundred lbs. Will the bolt be strong enough to hold that sheer from the wire loop?

kbs2244 · Nov 6, 2015

If you push up the ridge before pulling in the walls your cable should be OK since you have relived the stress.
To keep the cables from digging into the top plates I would drill holes through the soffit and wall loop the cable around the plates with steel plates of some kind on the outside to spread the force.

Daniel Dudley · Nov 6, 2015

Once you have the come alongs rigged, and the jacks in place and bearing, get rid of any existing collar ties,or anything that would keep the walls from coming back together.

This isn't a big building, and the ridge isn't very stout. If nothing is holding it apart, it should rise right up. I jacked up a 22 foot ridge a few years ago, and it pulled the walls right up with it. With the come alongs, you should have no problems.

Personally, I would take the time to find some stout eye bolts, and run them right through the wall out to something bigger than a washer, like a steel plate. They aren't that hard to come by. But your building is so small, even a washer on 3/4 inch plywood would do the trick. If for some reason you lose a jack, the come alongs are going to have to earn their keep, so get them right.

tyrenta · Nov 9, 2015

Thanks guys -- interesting I climbed up last night and the ridge actually is two beams that meet in the middle, coupled with a few nails at best; helps explain the sag I guess....

re: the eyebolts, if I put them right through the wall they still need to go through the top plate beam, correct? Or are you saying a 3/4 ply or steel backing plate on the outside wall spanning two studs would be sufficient to hold the horizontal load without going through the top plate?

Last issue I'm still trying to solve: there is a 2x6 hanging flat spanning the centerline front to back -- I don't think it is bearing much load other than the garage doors that hang from it, but it blocks my direct access to the ridge from below, so I can't just jack directly from below.

Would two 4x4 made from married 2x4x16', placed 3-6" on either side of that center line (i.e. 6-9" space between them), and tied together by a 6x4x1 on top and bottom be strong enough to bear the load from jacking? I would use two of these supports, placed under the ridge near center to raise it assuming that set-up makes sense.

tcianci · Nov 9, 2015

Your description of the ridge and its splicing reveals a very common misconception about a rafter type roof framing detail. The ridge is TOTALLY NON STRUCTURAL and its only purpose is to provide an easy way to hold and attach the rafters during the framing of the building. The entire structural strength of the roof comes from the fact that the rafters are positioned opposed to each other, therefore transferring all of the loads on the roof down to the walls that the rafters rest on. Many buildings have been framed with no ridge board at all, simply pairing the rafters against each other and fastening them so. It's far more difficult to accomplish because it requires the rafters to be set in pairs. Keep in mind that I had previously mentioned detaching the rafters from the ridge to accomplish your project and since it's highly likely that the walls of the building are not out of plumb by the same amount, your jacking and come along will turn into an argument with yourself since there's no force to stop a wall from moving once it's plumb.

tyrenta · Nov 9, 2015

tcianci said:
Your description of the ridge and its splicing reveals a very common misconception about a rafter type roof framing detail. The ridge is TOTALLY NON STRUCTURAL and its only purpose is to provide an easy way to hold and attach the rafters during the framing of the building. The entire structural strength of the roof comes from the fact that the rafters are positioned opposed to each other, therefore transferring all of the loads on the roof down to the walls that the rafters rest on. Many buildings have been framed with no ridge board at all, simply pairing the rafters against each other and fastening them so. It's far more difficult to accomplish because it requires the rafters to be set in pairs. Keep in mind that I had previously mentioned detaching the rafters from the ridge to accomplish your project and since it's highly likely that the walls of the building are not out of plumb by the same amount, your jacking and come along will turn into an argument with yourself since there's no force to stop a wall from moving once it's plumb.

This all makes complete sense to me -- my plan was to get them as close as I could back to plumb then add both collar/rafter ties. The only real goal being to prevent further sag/bowing, and also add a few feet of clearance if possible.

Do you mean by the above that ties won't work, and/or the forces are going to be too much for the come alongs, or are you just saying that without adding the ties it will be a losing battle?

I've never done something like this so my first concern is making sure I don't bring the whole thing down, and then second concern is shoring things up the correct way....

tcianci · Nov 9, 2015

The rafter/collar ties will work as long as they're fastened sufficiently. Ideally, you should pull the building inward probably until the walls are about 3/4" past plumb, do all of your remedial framing and then let the tension off the cables. Your remedial framing isn't working until it assumes the tensile loads imposed on it so you want to over crank your frame and let the building relax again. As I mentioned before, the main reason for detaching the rafters from the ridge would be for the ease of moving the building back in place and when you take the cables off it, you will only be loading it by virtue of the weight of the structure, not the spring like force of a heavily bowed ridge board. With all the rafters loose, you can pull a string from gable to gable and belt the rafters up as needed to re align everything and give a nice straight ridge line, then re nail them to the existing ridge.

tyrenta · Nov 12, 2015

Any feedback on using lift slings / eye slings around the top plate instead of eyebolts going through? It would greatly simplify things to put three come alongs in place with something like this, and according to the manuf seems to have a greater rating under load than the 1-ton come-alongs I have.

There is a window that butts against the sill plate dead center making it a bit of a challenge to span a 2x4 or 2x6 on the exterior to spread the eyebolt load across 2 or 3 studs, not to mention I wouldn't have to drill through the structure at all.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00I5HRFYY/?tag=atomicindus08-20

TractorJeff · Mar 13, 2017

Use the slings around the beam, like you are thinking.

tyrenta · Jul 20, 2017

After2-years I finally got around to this -- here's where I am at:
- Ridge beam has been jacked ~2.5" and walls pulled in with 2 come-alongs
- the tension on the come-alongs and screw jacks is getting to the point where I think I'm reaching the limits
- BUT the walls aren't square yet -- probably need to come in another 1" to over correct them
- HOWEVER, the corners aren't square either and this garage was moved in the past so the foundation may be too narrow; seems would be hard to square the corners given the rafters(?) at each end can't compress

So do I call it good and install rafter ties at this point, or can I get it more square without risking over-stressing the cables/screw jacks??

The one other consideration, is the sill plate is rotted on one side on the outside and is tipping outward, which isn't helping the walls to square up, but again I cant do much more besides pull the middle together more than the corners

I'll get some pics up

ard · Jul 21, 2017

tyrenta said:
After2-years I finally got around to this -- here's where I am at:
- Ridge beam has been jacked ~2.5" and walls pulled in with 2 come-alongs
- the tension on the come-alongs and screw jacks is getting to the point where I think I'm reaching the limits
- BUT the walls aren't square yet -- probably need to come in another 1" to over correct them
- HOWEVER, the corners aren't square either and this garage was moved in the past so the foundation may be too narrow; seems would be hard to square the corners given the rafters(?) at each end can't compress

So do I call it good and install rafter ties at this point, or can I get it more square without risking over-stressing the cables/screw jacks??

The one other consideration, is the sill plate is rotted on one side on the outside and is tipping outward, which isn't helping the walls to square up, but again I cant do much more besides pull the middle together more than the corners

I'll get some pics up

Glad to see an update!

One comment, you are using 'square' for walls, corners, etc, What do you mean? Wall plumb? Corner square? Or wall plumb at the corner?

Feel free to draw on paper, tale a picture of it- as opposed to only pictures of the structure.

If you will be fixing the sill plate it is possible to cheat a bit and move that in or out a little- depenidng on the wall, finish, etc.

matt_i · Jul 21, 2017

tyrenta said:
So do I call it good and install rafter ties at this point, or can I get it more square without risking over-stressing the cables/screw jacks??

I think if you are within 1" then my opinion is its time to start fastening things together. If you go to the point where a come-along is trying to stretch or shrink a 2x4 for example its a point where "nobody wins".

A precision of 1" is pretty small in terms of the rough framed envelope of a building. Its certainly outside the eyeball ability of anyone who didn't previously know about the problem.

jdsac · Jul 21, 2017

Jack the roof, the walls will follow. I had a ridge that was down 4 1/2 inches. By using a dozen jacks and going SLOWLY it worked. Jack the rafters close to the ridge. When you get the ridge where you want it or as good as its going to get, then check the walls & if they are reasonable - put in the cross ties while the roof is still supported by the jacks & release each jack a little bit- go slow. Best to use screw jacks as they are easy to control vs hydraulic bottle jacks. Take your time - even several days -1/2 turn on each jack and wait. you are asking the wood to do what it doesn't want to- its been that way for a long time
Work safe

tyrenta · Jul 21, 2017

ard said:
Glad to see an update!

One comment, you are using 'square' for walls, corners, etc, What do you mean? Wall plumb? Corner square? Or wall plumb at the corner?

Yes sorry, by square I mean both the center and corner of each of the side walls aren't plumb by about the same amount (tip out about an inch)....

Stuart in MN · Jul 21, 2017

matt_i said:
A precision of 1" is pretty small in terms of the rough framed envelope of a building. Its certainly outside the eyeball ability of anyone who didn't previously know about the problem.

My thoughts as well. You get to the point with an old building where things are "close enough."

tyrenta · Jul 21, 2017

Stuart in MN said:
My thoughts as well. You get to the point with an old building where things are "close enough."

My only reservation with tying things up was the sill plate -- it appears more rotted on the outboard edge and still tips out slightly (along with the walls), so I didn't want to put the rafter ties in and then run into an issue with the new sill plate not resting flat.

Then again maybe its more rotted on the outboard edge because the walls were never plumb so that's where the pressure was.....

tyrenta · Jul 21, 2017

tyrenta said:
My only reservation with tying things up was the sill plate -- it appears more rotted on the outboard edge and still tips out slightly (along with the walls), so I didn't want to put the rafter ties in and then run into an issue with the new sill plate not resting flat.

Seems I have a small issue with the right side sill plate rot -- the front right corner of the garage is leaning a bit to the right (ie outside), I assume due to the sill collapsing on the outside edge. The two rear corners are dead plumb, and the left front corner is near plumb but a bit to the right (less than the right side).

Whats the best way to pull the right side center -- I'm thinking an eye bolt lower left of the garage and upper right side and a come-along? or would a 2-3ft rebar stake in the ground on the lower left side do it rather than put another hole through the siding lower left? I realize I'm over thinking it, just so close to being square I'd like to get it there if possible and also not have to deal with an off center wall when replacing the right side sill plate that at cause other issues....

Platonic Solid · Jul 22, 2017

Subscribing - Great info in this thread - Thanks to all contributors.

1940's post/beam garage with sagging ridge and 2-3" wall bow

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