40x64x16 SIPs and ICF build in Wyoming

backintheday · Jul 8, 2015

Hi all, just like so many that have come before me I have been inspired by the awesome builds on this site. Now it's time to share my adventure in the world of DIY shop builds. I started building earlier this spring (which is summer for most of the country) I have made some progress but since my wife and I are doing all the work ourselves it's been slow going, especially since she broke her foot running a marathon 5 weeks ago.
A little back story, we moved to NW Wyoming 4 years ago after spending a few years vacationing up here we knew this is where we wanted to be. We bought 10 acres of sage brush in May of 2011, by the 1st of 2012 we had built a house (at least built enough to make it livable) put up a lean-too for her 2 horses and a place to store all our junk, all while living in a 30' camper. Over the next 2 years we put the finishing touches on the house, fenced in about 3 acres for the horses using a very nice high quality fencing that took most of the summer to put up.... I'll add some pics of the fencing for those of you that are in to that sort of thing. Just to clarify we did all the work our selves, with the help of a few friends of course. We have become pretty good at building stuff. After 3 long winters with no place to work on my junk I decided it was time to build my dream shop.

Shop specs;
40x64x16 with a lean too along 1 long side for trailer/stuff storage
4" slab, with in floor heat. Wood stove for back up.
I plan to use thermal solar for floor heat, any tips on this would be great. Plans are a 1000 gal storage tank built out of ICFs and 6 panels to heat the tank
10,000 lb lift
Ventilation system of some sort for welding and exhaust fumes extraction.
Storage for hunting, search and rescue gear, snowmobile gear, kayak etc...
Full bathroom
Second floor for a small bedroom and a gym
Siding and roofing will match the house, smart side with cedar trim
10 5'x1' windows up high for natural light.
3 big doors on the gable ends, 3 man doors.
long stainless steel bench with built in sink for big game cleaning
Lots of other details that I'll get to in the future

Current status. Footer is poured, I was planning to pour the wall today but the rain gods screwed me and I have about 3 more hours of prep work to do before I can pour, ain't happening... SIPs package is ordered, should be ready in early Aug.
Water line is ran.
You'll see my little 35hp tractor/backhoe that has paid for itself at least 3 times already, that is what I used to dig the footer and run the water line. I also built an 8' boom pole to help with setting the panels. I LOVE my tractor!!

That's about all I have for now. Feel free to ask questions, I'll answer them as quick as I can.

Please throw out any tips or tricks you may have.
Thanks for reading and following along.

Scav · Jul 8, 2015

Looking forward to seeing your progress. I love ICF, so versatile. Why did you pick it specifically?

bazzateer · Jul 8, 2015

Subbed, SIP construction intrigues me.

backintheday · Jul 8, 2015

Scav said:
Looking forward to seeing your progress. I love ICF, so versatile. Why did you pick it specifically?[/QUOTE

We used them when we built our house so I'm comfortable using them. That and you can't beat the ease of use and the R-factor. The only draw back is there will be 5-6" sticking out on the inside. I can live with that, I'll just have to custom build all my benches.

Scav · Jul 8, 2015

I would be interested in some pictures of the house if you have them

MacTexas · Jul 9, 2015

I'll be interested in seeing the ICF water storage tank. Even though it will be solar heated don't you worry about the water freezing during a long cold Wyoming night?

backintheday · Jul 9, 2015

MacTexas said:
I'll be interested in seeing the ICF water storage tank. Even though it will be solar heated don't you worry about the water freezing during a long cold Wyoming night?

I'm thinking I can keep the water temp over 100degs. I'm still not 100% sold on solar thermal, I was planning on geothermal but it's not proven to work long term in these conditions. I'm trying to avoid propane bills. I'm an automation tech so I can install the system myself. I need to make up my mind, cold nights aren't that far away. Please throw any thoughts out there.

Voi · Jul 9, 2015

Subscribed. Do you mind sharing which SIP supplier you're using?

Slowgsr · Jul 9, 2015

My dad did his house from logix icf. 5000sq ft single level, icf to the roof, walk out in the back and icf floor on the main level (with in floor heat).
He took some convincing not to do the roof in icf.

gnpenning · Jul 10, 2015

My home is ICF and my buddies is SIP. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Both a very cheap to heat. Year round temps are great. Neither one of us us AC. We both use the garage as are main access points to the home.

Do you plan on having your garage door come down on the block? What size overhead doors are you using?

Have you thought about using a radiator off the wood stove to heat your radiant?

Looking forward to your progress.

backintheday · Jul 10, 2015

Voi said:
Subscribed. Do you mind sharing which SIP supplier you're using?

R-control
Big sky insulators out of Belgrade Montana is the supplier

backintheday · Jul 10, 2015

gnpenning said:
My home is ICF and my buddies is SIP. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Both a very cheap to heat. Year round temps are great. Neither one of us us AC. We both use the garage as are main access points to the home.

Do you plan on having your garage door come down on the block? What size overhead doors are you using?

Have you thought about using a radiator off the wood stove to heat your radiant?

Looking forward to your progress.

There will be a 3" stem wall above the slab. I'm removing 7" from the top of the icfs for the doors, that should compensate for the 4" slab and 3" stem wall.
3 doors, 14x 14 on one end, 12 x14 and 10x10 on the other. The 10' will be access to the lift.

The wood stove will be for back up. I like cutting firewood but my back doesn't let me cut enough to heat the shop. That's a lot of work keeping the shop warm with wood. I like your idea though.

Voi · Jul 10, 2015

backintheday said:
Big sky insulators out of Belgrade Montana is the supplier

I thought that might be who you were working with. I talked to Jim C. from that company at our local home show last spring. Need to get a hold of him shortly.

I poked my head in your profile last night seeing if you had mentioned it in a previous thread. I found an old thread of yours about wood/glulam type beams in a barn. I assume since you have a SIP package picked out you have your roof load structure decided on but I thought I'd mention another guy I talked to -- Dale from Timber-Technologies.com. They make glulam columns, beams and trusses for pole barn components. He described them as a step below typical appearance grade glulams but said they are a nice way to dress up a barn a bit. I haven't seen any samples of his product and haven't dealt with them beyond that short conversation but thought I'd mention it.

backintheday · Jul 10, 2015

I really wanted to do something like their timber trusses but the cost and the added difficulty in insulation wasn't worth it. I'm going with 5/12 pitch trusses. I plan to build a barn in the future, I'll have to keep them in mind.

Big sky has been ok to deal with. There was a miss communication on their end that has put my order 4-5 weeks behind. I'm not to upset because I'm a month behind. I'm hoping the speed of the sips install will catch me up but I've never worked with them before so.....

Voi · Jul 10, 2015

backintheday said:
I really wanted to do something like their timber trusses but the cost and the added difficulty in insulation wasn't worth it. I'm going with 5/12 pitch trusses. I plan to build a barn in the future, I'll have to keep them in mind...

Besides the trusses, how are you building the roof for this project? SIPs over the trusses or a more traditional roof?

backintheday · Jul 10, 2015

Traditional. Sips roof panels were alot more!
I plan to use white or galvanized steel for the ceiling than r-40 blown in. I might do some faux 2x6 beams on the ceiling to break up the big ceiling. There is a small mill a mile down the Rd that can cut me what ever I want. All depends on the funds. What is your location Voi?

If it stops raining long enough for the trenches to dry up I can finish the prep work before pouring the walls Monday afternoon.

gnpenning · Jul 10, 2015

When I was asking about the garage doors I was checking to make sure you had a thermo break between your slab and the outdoors. Most will have the door come down on the foam part of the block or add a piece of treated under the GD. I made that mistake once.

I was thinking about the wood stove for a back up for your radiant not as your main source. you had mentioned it as a backup. I guess I wasn't very clear.

Have you picked out your garage doors yet?

RAIN!! We would love to have some of that up here.

I forgot to mention I was able to go to a seminar by R- control Big Sky. Are you getting your block from them as well? Sorry to hear they dropped the ball. It seemed like they where knowledgeable.

backintheday · Jul 10, 2015

gnpenning said:
When I was asking about the garage doors I was checking to make sure you had a thermo break between your slab and the outdoors. Most will have the door come down on the foam part of the block or add a piece of treated under the GD. I made that mistake once.

I was thinking about the wood stove for a back up for your radiant not as your main source. you had mentioned it as a backup. I guess I wasn't very clear.

Have you picked out your garage doors yet?

RAIN!! We would love to have some of that up here.

I forgot to mention I was able to go to a seminar by R- control Big Sky. Are you getting your block from them as well? Sorry to hear they dropped the ball. It seemed like they where knowledgeable.

I plan to use xps for a break than have the doors come down on a piece of trex.

I like your idea for a radiator back up. Do you have any plans for that type of set up?

Doors will be Raynor or Martin. I haven't ordered them yet.

Wish I could attend a seminar. Big sky knows their stuff, I just got lost in the shuffle, we'll see if they make it right. No I didn't get the icfs from them, I'm using superform from the local lumber yard. I am getting eps under slab from them though.

Voi · Jul 10, 2015

backintheday said:
What is your location Voi?

I'm in Western South Dakota. When I talked to Big Sky I think the guy told me they shipped for free. Was that true for your location and project size?

Also, do they start with a 24x8 SIP blank or do you not know that yet?

gnpenning · Jul 10, 2015

Glad yo have the thermo break worked out. I see way to many that don't.

the house I'm in now I built as a capitol gains home and didn't worry about using the stove for a back up. the house I built for myself before I looked into it. It's been to long ago. When I sell this place my next place I will use the stove for back up. I'm aways from doing it. I remember there where kits available that I think included a circ pump.

For your Overhead doors do you have anyone that is a Midland dealer in your area? If I had a zip I would have looked it up on the dealer locator.

Are Things drying out for you?

bczygan · Jul 10, 2015

Very well insulated.

You're gonna need it!

backintheday · Jul 11, 2015

Voi said:
I'm in Western South Dakota. When I talked to Big Sky I think the guy told me they shipped for free. Was that true for your location and project size?

Also, do they start with a 24x8 SIP blank or do you not know that yet?

I don't think they're shipping it for free, I'm not a 100% on that though.

I'll m not sure what the blank size is. They're cutting everything to my specs. All I have to do is assemble the giant 3d puzzle.

backintheday · Jul 11, 2015

gnpenning said:
Glad yo have the thermo break worked out. I see way to many that don't.

the house I'm in now I built as a capitol gains home and didn't worry about using the stove for a back up. the house I built for myself before I looked into it. It's been to long ago. When I sell this place my next place I will use the stove for back up. I'm aways from doing it. I remember there where kits available that I think included a circ pump.

For your Overhead doors do you have anyone that is a Midland dealer in your area? If I had a zip I would have looked it up on the dealer locator.

Are Things drying out for you?

This is what I came home to yesterday after work. Notice the water in the center of the piles of dirt. Hopefully it dries up today so I can prep for the pour on Monday afternoon.

backintheday · Jul 14, 2015

Poured the walls yesterday after noon. I'm no concrete guy but ICFs are very easy to work with. I stacked and poured the walls on my own. 15 yards.

I'm out of town until next Wednesday. The walls should be cured enough to backfill by then.

Question: do you guys compact the dirt on the inside of the walls to prevent settling under the floor overtime or is the 1' gap not enough to worry about? I was gonna soak the dirt as I backfill hoping that's enough. Suggestions....

HemiRamOn22s · Jul 14, 2015

Don't soak the dirt. Just back fill in 8-12" lifts and tamp as you go.

Colonial Cobra · Jul 14, 2015

Looks Good

Terrick down Under · Jul 15, 2015

G'day, this is my first post, have been just reading and enjoying this forum immensely.
But when I saw ICF, well that got my attention. I live just outside of the capital Canberra, up about 900m. I have built a 58 x 21 workshop to live in while we build our underground house. well we have been in the shed for 12 years so far and it has served us well. It is ICF walls and steel roof with wooden trusses. It ranges from 16 to 26C all year round (outside is -10 to 35C) with the only heating from a small column heater for our Great Dane/Labrador cross's arthritis. If you have in slab hydronics as well then it should be very nice to work in during the colder months. I can't wait to see the finished job.
Rick

backintheday · Jul 15, 2015

Gotta love the input from all around the planet. Thanks TDC and welcome to the vast knowledge that is the GJ.
To add to the ICF comment, my house foundation is built with them, it can get down to -30f for a couple weeks at a time but the crawl space stays around 50.

gnpenning · Jul 16, 2015

I don't know why more people don't us ICF. Like you said you don't have to be a concrete guy to do it.

Have things dried out for you?

theoldwizard1 · Jul 16, 2015

backintheday said:
Poured the walls yesterday after noon. I'm no concrete guy but ICFs are very easy to work with. I stacked and poured the walls on my own. 15 yards.

Did you use a pump ?

How many "lifts" did you do ?

Any thing other DIYers should watch for ?

backintheday · Jul 26, 2015

Things have dried out except for the piles of clay that are now the consistency of wet concrete...

I didn't use a pump, there was no need, the trucks were able to drive around the forms and fill em up.

I don't know what you mean by "lifts" it was a continuous pour. Went very smooth.

I'm currently in the process of back filling, compacting and putting on a layer of sticky tar paper stuff on the outside of the ICFs to protect and water proof the foam. I'm also laying a 12" wide strip of ridgid foam were the wall and footer meet to add some freeze protection. Kind of a hybrid frost protected shallow foundation ( I’ll post a picture the next couple days). I've been told the frost line can get down to 8' in this area, every little bit helps I guess.

Trusses will be here Wed and the SIPs on Thursday. I should be ready to start standing the walls on Friday morning. I'll be doing it myself; we'll see how that goes.... I might install a winch on my boom pole so I can use it like a crane. Whatever makes the job easier!!

4AudiQ · Jul 29, 2015

Subed.
I am intrigued by ICF's also.

backintheday · Aug 3, 2015

Made some progress over the last few days. Got the panels unloaded and organized in order on Thursday and Friday. Got a couple panels up Sat afternoon than we finished the east wall Sunday. I'm still on the fence about the SIPs. There is no room for error, every 2x6 is glued, some panels have 6 most have 4 in a pocket, each bead of glue adds a fraction on an inch to the length of the wall, than if you get a few bowed boards that adds even more. I ended up having to remove quit a bit in the middle of the wall and the end to make it all fit. I think due to all my windows there is an equal amount of lumber in this as there is a stick built building. This is going to be a very strong building.
My wife is an artist and a detail orientated person (and a good equipment operator), if it wasn't for her I would have screwed up a few things along the way, we have picked up a few tricks, like screw all the 2x6's together to **** them in and reduced the gap caused by the glue, we also started using the tractor to push the panels in to get them as tight as possible.
This is it for now, the weather is doing what it does in WY so I have to work in between the wind and rain. I'll continue to update as things progress.

Thanks for checking in.

bazzateer · Aug 4, 2015

'Kin'ell! That's big! Me likey! :thumbup:

backintheday · Aug 18, 2015

Made some progress over the last 2 weeks. My wife and I had the panels up in exactly 2 weeks, 1 Sunday and the rest was after work a few hours a night. Things went better as we got a little more experience. If you look close where the doors meet the foundation you'll see where I screwed up laying out the foundation wall. I'm off 6'' inches in some spots, I'll either build up the wall with block or have the concrete guy pouring the floor fix it. I guess that's due to my inexperience, I laid out the wall to my plans not the actual final drawings from the panel builder. Oops!
I had a bunch of friends over Sunday to help set trusses. I wasn't ready for them so we spent the first 3 hours finishing up my little projects. Then we had a SAR mission come in for a downed plane on a glacier in the mountains, that took 2 guys away, then there was a problem at work that another guy had to leave and go fix. That slowed us down, we only got 6 trusses set. There were 2 people in the plane crash, our SAR team short hauled them out, they'll both be fine. Pretty cool!!!
Notice the haze in the background, we're getting the effects from all the fires to the west.
The opening above the 10' door is for a vent fan. The 2 openings on the long wall are for a future lean too addition for a metal and wood shop.
I mentioned something earlier about the horse fence we put up last year. My wife also got some good pics of the man lift in action and the view from the rd looking NE, the shop will match the house. Please excuse the crappy lean too for the horses, the plan is to deconstruct it and build a monitor style barn, maybe next year....

backintheday · Aug 25, 2015

We worked our asses off the last 3 days! Got the rest of the trusses on, built the look outs, finished up a few small things and got most of the roof osb on. Got a good shot of it with this mornings sunrise. First time we've seen the mountains in a couple weeks due to all the fires to the west.

gnpenning · Aug 25, 2015

good to see your moving along on this. I'm sure you want to get it all dried in before long. Don't sweat the door opening not a big deal. If your going to have an ooops it great when it's an easy fix. Have you got your windows and doors?

backintheday · Aug 25, 2015

Haven't got doors and windows yet. I need to get the windows ordered the next few days. I might not be able to afford all the doors this year. I'm over budget and need to hold off on a few things. I'd rather get the siding up and floor in, I can build temp walls in a couple door openings then install the doors next spring.

Riley · Aug 25, 2015

Great project! A quick question for you about the upper windows.

It looks like you used SIP's of different heights putting the walls up.

What was the process to get the "fill-in" SIP's, above the window openings filled in?

Thanks!

backintheday · Aug 26, 2015

Thanks
Above the windows are lvl headers with foam in between. The headers dropped down in to the sips pocket. Not sure I would do that again, below each window are 6 2x6s that really added alot of cost and I now have a lot of thermal coductivity paths which defeats part of the reason for using sips.

40x64x16 SIPs and ICF build in Wyoming

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