brought home my grandfathers machinist tools today

Boost Creep · Aug 11, 2015

I brought home some things that used to be my grandfathers today. he passed several years ago and all i took back then was some transfer punches and some letter/number punches. i didn't want to take anything that i wouldn't be able to put back in use. well, all of his machinist tools have just been sitting since then and i think i'm getting to a point where i can use some of them for things so i asked my parents if i could go through them again. they were ok with it and even stepped it up more and just suggested i take everything since they're just there and they know he'd be happy to see me with them and using them. i've only got a couple pics right now for you all but i'll be updating this sometime later this week with more when i bring over a better camera. i'm also going to have to ask what some of it even is and what its used for. the boxes are full of old starret, brown & sharpe and lufkin tools amongst other things. heres a few pics of the boxes for now

kennedy boxes. i'd like to clean these up some but not a full on restore. i like the age on them. thought i was going to have to replace some slides since some of the drawers were out when i got it but they went back in no problems. still have the drawer covers too. they're going to need new felt for sure

the mid chest and bigger top box were on this cart. says edsal on the side. never heard of it

seems like it might end up being a good chop saw stand

i'll update this more sometime this week with pics of the tools and questions of what some of them are and looking for suggestions to clean some of them up

Dennis Leigh Henry · Aug 11, 2015

I'm glad you jumped in on this.. Nothing like getting tools from loved ones. I see some 1-2-3 blocks and an angle plate (or two) on the bottom of the cart.. Need to get those cleaned up and back into service.. What else were in the tool boxes, precision tools or ??

I'm sure he's watching over you as you put these back to good use... :thumbup:

Kellyblues · Aug 11, 2015

Very awesome! It's always nice to see someone appreciate such as this. He obviously believed in quality tools . Take care of them and they will last your lifetime also as I'm sure you will.

I still have a good deal of my dad's stuff and he was into every freaking thing. My grandad was a master carpenter from roughly the late 1800' - 1940's and my family still has the vast majority of his tools. His plane box is a sight to behold. Two of every size, three fold outs. I think there's 36 in that box. I'm so thankful my family has taken good care of it. I have his brace and bit box though I don't get it out very often. But every now and then I need to drill through 8 inches of wood and I get granddaddys brace and bits out and they work perfectly every time.

As it was mentioned I'm sure he will look down from above and smile knowing his grandson is giving his tools some new found respect and use. When I use something of my dad's or his dad's I often think of that very thing. It's really cool.

Somewhere I have a picture of grandaddy around 1915-18 in Fort Worth with his horse drawn work wagon with the sides open and folded down. He made the wagon also. It was BIG. I think of the poor horses that had to lug that heavy thing every time I look at that picture.

larry_g · Aug 11, 2015

Good deal. If any of the tools are rusting in the boxes like the ones on the bottom of the cart do what you can NOW to get it stopped. When you get around to refelting the tool boxes research what glue/adhesive to use. Some of the glues put out an acidic vapor as they cure and will ruin the tools places in there.

lg
no neat sig line

Boost Creep · Aug 12, 2015

larry_g said:
When you get around to refelting the tool boxes research what glue/adhesive to use. Some of the glues put out an acidic vapor as they cure and will ruin the tools places in there.

lg
no neat sig line

thanks. i would have had no idea. i was planning on just using 3m super 77 that i already have. would that work or any suggestions on something?

this is what most of the drawers look like. what would be the best way to remove the old felt and adhesive?

JNP_7151 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

Boost Creep · Aug 12, 2015

on to some of the contents of the boxes. this isn't everything but just hitting some of the main stuff. i wanted to grab my lightbox to take these but nobody was the offices where i left it when i went by so i just found a piece of foam and my led shop light to take these. worked ok i guess

some taps and bits.

JNP_7150 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

bunch of clamps. couldn't find any makers marks on em.

JNP_7153 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

Boost Creep · Aug 12, 2015

some more randomness

JNP_7154 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

JNP_7157 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

not sure what these are for

JNP_7158 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

or this

JNP_7159 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

JNP_7161 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

JNP_7163 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

JNP_7166 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

Boost Creep · Aug 12, 2015

JNP_7167 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

top two are craftsman, the triangle is brown & sharpe and the long ones are starrett

JNP_7170 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

JNP_7171 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

not sure what these are for either

JNP_7173 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

JNP_7175 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

lost on these too

JNP_7176 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

Boost Creep · Aug 12, 2015

JNP_7177 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

JNP_7179 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

JNP_7180 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

JNP_7181 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

JNP_7182 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

the top round ones are craftsman. i think the bottom ones are starrett. hard to read the markings

JNP_7184 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

brown & sharpe and the bigger one is lufkin

JNP_7186 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

JNP_7187 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

helios

JNP_7189 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

Kellyblues · Aug 12, 2015

The " pod" looking things are machinist jacks. Very cool stuff.
Good tip about the adhesive. I made that mistake many years ago. I have that same box, probably about the same age.

I'm using my mobile device at the moment or I would tell you what the things are that you can't id but I don't know how to crop a picture. I'm sure someone will chime in pretty soon.

You have some very nice quality tools there.

Boost Creep · Aug 12, 2015

whole bunch of starrett rulers. not sure if these break easy or if this was done on purpose

JNP_7190 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

JNP_7191 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

JNP_7192 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

JNP_7193 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

JNP_7194 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

JNP_7195 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

Boost Creep · Aug 12, 2015

these things are all stuck together

JNP_7196 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

1,2,3 blocks need some help too

JNP_7198 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

JNP_7200 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

JNP_7203 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

Boost Creep · Aug 12, 2015

so theres a good overview of many of the things i got. i don't usually deal with old tools and cleaning em up so any suggestions on how to go about it will be helpful. are those ultrasonic cleaners something i should look into? the time sitting definitely took a toll on these. not sure how long they were even sitting since he used them last too

Adam.C · Aug 12, 2015

Boost Creep said:
JNP_7175

These are Starrett pin vises, used to chuck small parts into a lathe chuck that really can't hold tiny objects.

Boost Creep said:
JNP_7176

These are hole gauges. You turn the end to expand the ball when it is in a hole, then mic the gauge to determine the hole size.

The Tee shaped tools are similar. They are called telescoping gauges and are used in the same way to determine the width of a slot or a large bore. They are spring loaded so you compress the tool, then lock it when you get the right width. Once locked in position, it is more accurate to mic than an inside caliper would be because it is no longer springy.

Adam.C · Aug 12, 2015

Boost Creep said:
some more randomness

not sure what these are for
JNP_7158

These are machinists' jacks, used to precisely position parts on tools, or for inspection. Very handy- nice set. The left pair are very likely Starrett "Little Giant" 190 (2" tall base) or 191 (1-1/2" tall base) jack screws. There are a bunch of other accessories that go with these.

Boost Creep said:
or this
JNP_7159

Machinists or "toolmakers' buttons", used as a convenient way to keep track of the location of a hole. How they work is, you spot in a small hole on the mill. Then attach the button. The stud can then be precisely adjusted to wherever you need the final hole to be. Then you take the part off the mill to a lathe or jig bore, index on the button, and drill the hole(s).

Boost Creep · Aug 12, 2015

thanks! i knew i could count on you all to tell me what these things are. i even told my parents i didn't know what all of it was but i knew where to go to find out. i don't think i would have ever guessed what those hole gauges did. lol

Adam.C · Aug 12, 2015

There are several valuable items there. Everything you have there is still useful to a machinist, even a home shop machinist. I paid big money for some of this stuff on ebay. The key is in proper cleaning and identification. The trick is to avoid putting all that stuff on a wire wheel. The Vee blocks and precision squares are precision ground. Rust pits actually don't ruin them. A soft (brass) wire wheel may not either. But aggressive scotchbrite could (??) Evaporust might be the right answer to clean some of this

The depth gauge still has the original psychedelic salt bluing colors on it. Most guys hit all this stuff on a whire wheel and ruin the old finishes. That salt blue is so caustic, nobody does it anymore, so good examples can be rare and sought after. That same tool today is finished with black oxide, which isn't as nice.

As to the boxes, I get how you are not looking to do a full refurb on it. But new felt sure would be nice and make them more useable. I would try soaking the felt in hot water and see what that does. I forget what Kennedy used. If that doesn't work, I would go to some sort of detergent, like simple green, then WD-40 or mineral spirits.

Some guys scrape the felt out with an old chisel or razor blade, but that ruins whatever is left of the drawer finish. You can buy Kennedy spray paint from MSC. It is the only paint I ever found that truly matched the color of a Kennedy chest. I tried everything from Lowes and Home Depot and nothing matched. I hated to buy the Kennedy paint because it was like $25. Whatever you decide, you should really refinish the drawers carefully before applying new felt.

When you choose felt, my advice is to err on the safe side. Buy 100% wool felt. Most modern felt is polyester. And there are rumors polyester felts promote rust. 100% wool has natural oils in it that help fight rust (so the legend goes). The real stuff isn't that much money for a job you will likely never do again.

I used wall paper paste as an adhesive. This is safer and easier to use than Super 77. The other alternative is thinned white glue, but guys believe this out gasses something that promotes rust or is not pH neutral. You can apply felt to the inner sides of the drawer, possibly covering the off color paint or primer you used to restore the finish. That makes for a beautiful job. If you choose to do that, do the sides first, then the bottom. Its best to cut the felt with a super sharp knife and a straight edge, as that makes a straighter, cleaner edge than scissors. When you put in the felt you can move it around stretch it or "fuller" it with a credit card as a squeegee. The wall paper paste takes a while to cure. Warm water will be best and if the metal drawers are warm, that will help prevent the glue from clumping.

This stuff all looked pretty much like what you have now when I bought it (a few exceptions)

Adam.C · Aug 12, 2015

Boost Creep said:
these things are all stuck together
JNP_7196 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

Those look like 2 Starrett 278's, likely a matched pair (look for matching serial numbers on the ends), stuck to a Starrett 567. If you can find the clamp that goes with the 567, you can get $50-100 for it on ebay. That's like $300 new. Its precision ground on several surfaces, and super square. That rust could be very superficial (oil and razor blade removal). Its a handy tool to have. It can be clamped to a machine table or held in a vise. Also nice that these are usually tapped 3/8" X 16 to allow them to work with clamping kits etc.

Adam.C · Aug 12, 2015

Boost Creep said:
some more randomness
https://flic.kr/p/wi37zb JNP_7154 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

JNP_7157

JNP_7161 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

Top picture in the little tin box is a Starrett edge finder or "wiggler" set, used to find the center of a mill spindle (used to zero the machine to an edge of a part). He's got a couple different arms for that.

The half balls are part of the trammel set from the lower picture. That's probably a Starrett No251. The balls are used to center the trammel pivot on a hole (vs the points which are used in center or ***** punched marks).

Some of the little goofy stuff that looks like junk is actually important and useful items or accessories.

I recall seeing a program on TV about WW2 Messerschmidt engines and how the tolerances in the engines were so tight, they couldn't be made today. By that I took it to mean, we couldn't simply program a CNC machine, press go, and come back later and have an engine. In the old days, tight tolerances were achievable and these were some of the tools required. Careful hand layouts and sneaking up on dimenions, and test fits were required, but they could make good stuff when they needed too.

Leoruiz · Aug 12, 2015

Great stuff !
It's very refreshing to see the collection of a working mans kit( in comparison to a cool-aid drinker with a bottle of chrome polish) :3gears:

Those were paid for with cash girls :scared:

Old School. :thumbup:

jeffmoss26 · Aug 12, 2015

Wow!!

Spn1025 · Aug 12, 2015

Boost Creep said:
some more randomness
JNP_7154 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

I'm not a machinist, so I have to ask this question. What's in the Sucrets case? At my work, several of the machinists here also have a Sucrets case in their tool box. I never opened it and never questioned it, but now i'm curious.

Dynamic86 · Aug 12, 2015

Wow that some serious quality stuff there. Some of it may not look like much but that is some good precision tools.

hangfirew8 · Aug 12, 2015

Spn1025 said:
I'm not a machinist, so I have to ask this question. What's in the Sucrets case? At my work, several of the machinists here also have a Sucrets case in their tool box. I never opened it and never questioned it, but now i'm curious.

I also inherited my Grandfather's machinist chest. In my case, his Sucrets box contained mini dies, the kind used to cut threads onto rod. They are very small round dies, a type I just don't see any more. However I've purchased many Sucrets boxes at yard sales, containing everything from Dremel bits to small nuts and bolts to brass brads. Anything small, it seems, except Sucrets.

Adam.C · Aug 12, 2015

Leoruiz said:
Great stuff !
It's very refreshing to see the collection of a working mans kit( in comparison to a cool-aid drinker with a bottle of chrome polish)
Those were paid for with cash girls Old School.

Man, I hope you aren't referring to me. I may be a home shop machinist, but I fed my family with those tools making high quality, high precision items essentially by hand full time. I know what these tools are off the top of my head because I (obviously) have them myself and know how to use them.

2oolhound · Aug 12, 2015

What a nice collection of machinist tools Boost Creep. Looks like you got them just in time as they were starting to deteriorate. :beer:

Here's to you adding a lathe and even a small mill at some point down the road. It's an interesting hobby for many of us and extremely useful to us garage dwellers.

Adam.C said:
Careful hand layouts and sneaking up on dimenions, and test fits were required,

Is this what computer linguists call "Rich Text" or "Hyper Text"? As a novice it's good to hear phrases like "sneaking up on dimensions" the actual tool room jargon that puts words to the technique. Thanks for i.d.ing the tools and the rich text accompaniment Adam

Boost Creep · Aug 12, 2015

Adam.C said:
Those look like 2 Starrett 278's, likely a matched pair (look for matching serial numbers on the ends), stuck to a Starrett 567. If you can find the clamp that goes with the 567, you can get $50-100 for it on ebay. That's like $300 new. Its precision ground on several surfaces, and super square. That rust could be very superficial (oil and razor blade removal). Its a handy tool to have. It can be clamped to a machine table or held in a vise. Also nice that these are usually tapped 3/8" X 16 to allow them to work with clamping kits etc.

i have the clamps. just didn't get any pics of them. appreciate your helpfulness identifying these for me. no interest in selling anything. hope to someday learn to and be able to use it all

Spn1025 said:
I'm not a machinist, so I have to ask this question. What's in the Sucrets case? At my work, several of the machinists here also have a Sucrets case in their tool box. I never opened it and never questioned it, but now i'm curious.

i did get a pic of the inside but didn't originally post it cause it was slightly out of focus

JNP_7156 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

2oolhound said:
What a nice collection of machinist tools Boost Creep. Looks like you got them just in time as they were starting to deteriorate. Here's to you adding a lathe and even a small mill at some point down the road. It's an interesting hobby for many of us and extremely useful to us garage dwellers.

i'd be all about a mill and lathe. maybe someday

Adam.C · Aug 12, 2015

Ya know? When people buy mills and lathes then ask (over at PM) what "tooling" they need, I usually suggest starting with all this stuff. You already have it all. If you restore these things like I did, you can use it to inspect the machines and tools you buy and be WAY ahead. Inspection and hand layout should be the first things you learn to do in metal working. Yep- surface plate should be next before a machine tool, then wring out each piece of kit.

Hephaestus29 · Aug 12, 2015

Better get a de-rusting kit together.
A shame they rusted but good they are
rescued.

ToolmakerCT · Aug 12, 2015

Boost Creep said:
i have the clamps. just didn't get any pics of them. appreciate your helpfulness identifying these for me. no interest in selling anything. hope to someday learn to and be able to use it all

i did get a pic of the inside but didn't originally post it cause it was slightly out of focus
JNP_7156 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

i'd be all about a mill and lathe. maybe someday

Looks like you have you have some step dowels or diamond dressers in there, along with some small boring bars. Step dowels are used to go from one nominal size dowel to the next, used when you need to hand align parts (die block and a punch for example) or when you screw up and put the dowel in the wrong spot lol. If they're diamond dressers they will a diamond set in resin or a cluster of diamonds.

Awesome job keeping those tools in the family! I have and use my g'pas angle plate, now in its 3rd generation of toolmaker service.

l

dave89iroc · Aug 12, 2015

have a lot of those as I've collected a few machinists set over the years, I'll have to go through everything and start a new thread

dr_clyde · Aug 12, 2015

That's a nice collection of tools. I have many old tools from my dad, grandpa, uncles and other mentors, and they mean more to me than all the new ones I bought.

Clean them carefully, then use the heck out of them.

buba · Aug 12, 2015

Boost Creep said:
thanks. i would have had no idea. i was planning on just using 3m super 77 that i already have. would that work or any suggestions on something?

this is what most of the drawers look like. what would be the best way to remove the old felt and adhesive?

JNP_7151 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

I used Elmer's Craftbond acid free fabric and paper glue to reline an SK chest. You need to thin it a bit with water otherwise it acts like a fast set glue. Let it air out of for a week or two before putting any tools in the chest

Can't help with the felt as SK used a cotton fabric to line their chests, similar to 100% cotton single sided flannel.

Boost Creep · Aug 16, 2015

picked up some evaporust and let these 4 soak for 3-4 hours today.

20319423829_fddaa684f2_b by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

seemed to work well. now that some of the crud is off them i've been able to read the markings on them now. #1 is a brown & sharpe 801. #2 is a craftsman. #3 is lufkin and #4 is a brown & sharpe 802

this is where they're at now.

IMG_5981 by OG bOOst creep, on Flickr

any suggestions to get that last bit of tarnished look off them and get them looking brand new again? my first time trying to restore tools like this and i don't want to mess em up

brought home my grandfathers machinist tools today

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