Getting ready for electric and lights

Kevin54 · Sep 3, 2015

I'm getting ready to pull the plug and get my electrical permit and get the lighting and electrical portion of my garage done. What I am looking to light specifically is the main new addition. I have 10' walls, 4/12 scissor trusses, and 28' width x 30' depth. I would like to have canned/recessed lighting but I am worried that the cost of electric later, and possibly lack of appropriate lighting may make me regret things. I was in my buddies garage yesterday, and he has some 4' fluorescents mounted in his garage and it is bright.

So my question is this.......can I put in canned lighting and maybe LED's and get the light that the fluorescents put out along with comparable electric cost?

rockwithjason · Sep 3, 2015

LED would do it but your upfront cost will be more. the secret to can lighting is to look at the can AND the trim data sheets. this will give you the beam angles and area coverage at any distance. work out your square footage and then place the beams appropriately.

My Old Tools · Sep 3, 2015

I went with 4' LED shop lights from Costco. They were about $35 each. They are bright and I like the quality of light better than fluorescent. They pull almost no power, 38 watts. You could put 47 of them on one 15 amp breaker if you wanted.

Kevin54 · Sep 3, 2015

My Old Tools said:
I went with 4' LED shop lights from Costco. They were about $35 each. They are bright and I like the quality of light better than fluorescent. They pull almost no power, 38 watts. You could put 47 of them on one 15 amp breaker if you wanted.

Do you have a link for the lights? as I said, my buddy has fluorescent, but he bought cheaper lights from Menards, yet he has them tight to the ceiling. When I asked him how they were mounted and how the wiring was ran, he couldn't remember. :lol:

Plus he has no ceiling access at the moment. Don't ask....he forgot to put one in.

If I would put a 4' fluorescent light up, should I have a junction box above every light to make the connections? I want this done correctly. :thumbup:

Oh and I forgot, running up the ceilings, how many rows of lights per side whether canned or fluorescent? I have 15' per side of ceiling x 30' long to mount lights. I was thinking that with canned lights, two rows of (6) that is about 5' apart and about 5 feet apart going up the ceiling and 3' off of the wall to start. Or if I go with (4) 4' fluorescent lights, I would go with (4) per row and two rows starting at 3' off of the wall and 5' apart

rockwithjason · Sep 3, 2015

Kevin54 said:
If I would put a 4' fluorescent light up, should I have a junction box above every light to make the connections? I want this done correctly.

there are several ways to do it. you could do the jbox thing by nailing a 1g zip box to the rafter and then wiring them up. if the fixtures are designed for it you can line them up end to end and pull the wire right thru them. you can't pull any other wire thru them though, only wires for that lighting circuit. you could pipe them end to end also if you aren't opposed to surface mount conduit.

Oh and I forgot, running up the ceilings, how many rows of lights per side whether canned or fluorescent? I have 15' per side of ceiling x 30' long to mount lights. I was thinking that with canned lights, two rows of (6) that is about 5' apart and about 5 feet apart going up the ceiling and 3' off of the wall to start. Or if I go with (4) 4' fluorescent lights, I would go with (4) per row and two rows starting at 3' off of the wall and 5' apart

again, this depends on the specific fixture. the angle of the light throw will determine how many rows and what spacing. off the cuff, I would say two rows minimum equally spaced and lined up with the main traffic pattern.

Falcon67 · Sep 3, 2015

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

And the Inspector Said "Looks good, let me see your permit". And the Inspector saw that it was good - the second day.

My Old Tools · Sep 3, 2015

The Costco lights are Feit 4' shop lights. Costco is the cheapest I have found at $35, Amazon is $50. You can google them. They need a plug at each location. I ran conduit to mine and used a single switch to control all 16. The power consumption is low enough that I would just as soon have them all on at once. My shop is 30x40. I have 4 rows across the 30' width in the high part of the shop, lights 14' and 18' from the floor. I have 3 rows across in the 10' high part of the shop 30' wide. I can't tell much difference in the light between the two areas. I can tell you I have almost no discernable shadows.
The lights mount either on short cables or flush. I did both, hung from cables in the high part, screwed flush to the ceiling beams in the 10' part.

theoldwizard1 · Sep 3, 2015

Kevin54 said:
I have 10' walls, 4/12 scissor trusses, and 28' width x 30' depth. I would like to have canned/recessed lighting but I am worried that the cost of electric later, and possibly lack of appropriate lighting may make me regret things.
.
.
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So my question is this.......can I put in canned lighting and maybe LED's and get the light that the fluorescents put out along with comparable electric cost?

The big issue is that cans do not throw a wide "footprint" so you are going to need a lot of them to get near the amount of light you can get with a double bulb 4' tube fluorescent.

28' width means you need 2 or 3 rows, possibly 4 if you are NOT using flood light (which spread the beam). CFLs will keep the operating costs low, but not as low as fluorescent tubes simply because you will need less straight tubes than CFLs.

If you are going to go the recessed route, you should definite look into CFL in a R30 or R40 glass envelope. They come in various wattages (go to Amazon and search for "CFL R30"). These may protrude out of the can a small amount. And they are not cheap (a lot cheaper than LED). Make sure you buy dimable bulbs and the appropriate type of dimmer.

If you are planning on spray painting, this is not going to be enough light.

Steevo · Sep 3, 2015

Kevin,
When I built my 24x40 shop, I wired in ceiling boxes, one for each "row" of fluorescent fixtures.
The box feeds the first fixture, and the rows of fixtures are joined together with box joint connectors, making each run of four/five fixtures a wiring conduit that your wires can run through.
You only need a ceiling box for each row, not one for each fixture.

theoldwizard1 · Sep 3, 2015

Kevin54 said:
If I would put a 4' fluorescent light up, should I have a junction box above every light to make the connections? I want this done correctly.

Typical "shop lights" are designed to be hung from a chain on each end and usually come with a 4-6' cord and plug. If you want to mount them flush to the ceiling, I would remove the cord and install a metal octagon ceiling box at each location. You can use a ceiling fixture strap/spreader bar across the box and a hollow ****** to mount the fixture, after you drill a hole in the center.

Kevin54 said:
... how many rows of lights ...

If you are using double bulb shop fluorescent fixtures, divide your width (28') by 4 (7'). Mount the center line of each row 7' from the wall (which will give you 14' between the fixture center lines). 5 double bulb fixtures per row should be plenty, unless you are doing something that requires a lot of light (painting), then I would go 7 fixtures per row. You are talking 20 bulbs, At 2800 lumens a piece, that is 56,000 lumens.

A 16 watt R30 CFL put out about 750 lumens. You can't afford to use enough CFLs to match that number.

IMHO, LED "tubes" that replace fluorescent tubes are still not cost effective.

theoldwizard1 · Sep 3, 2015

Steevo said:
Kevin,
When I built my 24x40 shop, I wired in ceiling boxes, one for each "row" of fluorescent fixtures.
The box feeds the first fixture, and the rows of fixtures are joined together with box joint connectors, making each run of four/five fixtures a wiring conduit that your wires can run through.
You only need a ceiling box for each row, not one for each fixture.

How did you attach each fixture to the ceiling ? Toggle bolts ?

Steevo · Sep 3, 2015

theoldwizard1 said:
How did you attach each fixture to the ceiling ? Toggle bolts ?

I screwed them into the bottom chords of the trusses.

Platonic Solid · Sep 3, 2015

Do you have a floor plan? I skimmed your build thread but didn't see a basic plan view.
Are you continuing the black ceiling - dark walls theme?

Kevin54 · Sep 4, 2015

Platonic Solid said:
Do you have a floor plan? I skimmed your build thread but didn't see a basic plan view.
Are you continuing the black ceiling - dark walls theme?

I'll have to find a copy of my floor plan, but basically it is a 28' deep x36' wide main garage, and off of that on the left side is a 28' wide x 36' deep addition. The addition is what I am concerned about. Plus it has scissor trusses, so I need both sides symmetrical.

As far as the walls and ceiling........I just may go white with the corrugated metal wainscoting. The garage will have a smooth white painted ceiling although not gloss white. Maybe a satin or eggshell. The walls will just be a flat white.

I'm looking for the best bang for the buck, and so far it sounds like fluorescent is the way to go. For the main garage, a couple of years ago, I bought fluorescent fixtures from Lowes. They were the two tube/4' fixtures. I got what I paid for at $9.95 each. Slowly the ballast start going out. So if I do go with fluorescent, I need to step up to better fixtures so they last.

ddawg16 · Sep 4, 2015

Kevin...I'm running 6" cans with 23w CFL's in them. I have a total 18 lights in 3 zones.

It's plenty of light for me. Shadows are not an issue.

It's been 6 years and I have yet to have a CFL go out.

Once they do start going I'll replace with LED.

What is nice about the cans is you use any mixture of bulbs you want including a much broader range of colors. I prefer the 4000-5000K color range. Additionally, I don't have to worry about breaking a FL tube swinging a 2x4 around.

Cost wise? Pretty cheap. I bought the cans by the case...worked out to about $6/can. Hell, the trims are going to cost more. But for now it's working just fine with a PAR lamp in there.

Getting ready for electric and lights

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