My French Drain and Dry Well Project

theoldwizard1 · Dec 12, 2015

I posted this in another thread, but I think it needs its own thread !

This trench is much deeper than it looks. 3+' !!

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After the water was removed from this trench, landscape cloth was laid in and a 2-4" bed of gravel was laid (to adjust the pitch). The PVC drain pipe (note holes) was covered with a sock and install with the holes up. Then more gravel up to a couple of inches below the ground level.

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Note the finished "French Drain" has a 2 high row of garden wall block up against the garage. (Top of first row is level with garage floor. Second row prevents splash on to siding.) The second row (also 2 high) will eventually go all the way across and hold 55 gallon rain barrels. The garden ares is higher than the garage floor (root cause for my water incursion in the garage). The garden could not be lowered because it would flood from the neighbors yards.

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This was about 5 years ago and it has been dry ever since !

theoldwizard1 · Dec 12, 2015

I dug the trench (3x3x21)behind the garage myself. It was summer. It was hot. The good news was there was shade back there until afternoon so I worked on it 3-5 hours every day. Lots of rest breaks. Lots of water. I figured if that didn't kill me, I am in decent shape.

The problem was what to do with the ~7 yds of dirt I removed ! Thats when I called in the pros !!

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Tim Kennedy · Dec 12, 2015

Just curious --- I was always taught to put the holes down -- guess the question now is --- is one way better than the other or just a matter of personal preference?

hippie2cams · Dec 12, 2015

if you put holes down water drains out of pipe,holes up water drains into pipe. :lol_hitti

Denwood · Dec 12, 2015

Very nicely done. Previous to the drain, what sort of water issues were you having? Did you tie a garage drain into the plumbing as well?

Bookworm · Dec 12, 2015

I was always taught to put the holes down too.

When I said (as a kid) that the water would drain out of it if the holes were down, the answer was " How ? The water ain't draining now ! It'll flow thru the pipe. If you put the holes on top, the trench has to fill with water before it'll get into the pipe. "

Tim Kennedy · Dec 12, 2015

Thanks Bookworm -- exactly what I was told many years ago!

NUTTSGT · Dec 12, 2015

Bookworm said:
I was always taught to put the holes down too.

When I said (as a kid) that the water would drain out of it if the holes were down, the answer was " How ? The water ain't draining now ! It'll flow thru the pipe. If you put the holes on top, the trench has to fill with water before it'll get into the pipe. "

Thought that myself as a youngster staying with a farming family that also ran a field tiling business. ADS had set them a Vee shaped tile sample with a screen on the bottom. I thought the tile went in like a "v" but found out it went in inverted "^". As the water table would rise, it would flow out the tile.

Whether up or down the OP has it installed and I don't forsee his changing it. The most important thing is the garage is dry.

theoldwizard1 · Dec 12, 2015

Tim Kennedy said:
Just curious --- I was always taught to put the holes down -- guess the question now is --- is one way better than the other or just a matter of personal preference?

hippie2cams said:
if you put holes down water drains out of pipe,holes up water drains into pipe.

Everyone told me down, but I used hippie2cams logic because I wanted to drain the water AWAY from the garage.

PeterT · Dec 12, 2015

Nice work, now you have piece of mind when its wet out, and you know exactly what is down there.

theoldwizard1 · Dec 12, 2015

Denwood said:
Very nicely done. Previous to the drain, what sort of water issues were you having?

TERRIBLE !! Most of the spring the floor was wet, Any hard rains in summer and it flooded. I knew the problem was because the garden was ABOVE the level of the garage floor but if I lowered it, the garden would become a swap (not that I am that big of a gardener ! I do love fresh tomatoes and it is a convenient place to dump grass clippings and leaves )

The following year I replacef the sill plate (with PT) under that back wall. Most of it was rotted away and the hold down bolts were less than 1/4" in diameter. We just used a powder actuate nailer with stainless nails.

Denwood said:
Did you tie a garage drain into the plumbing as well?

No. That would be a lot more work and it is the "classic" 2 car garage. No cars inside ! :lol:

theoldwizard1 · Dec 12, 2015

Bookworm said:
I was always taught to put the holes down too.

When I said (as a kid) that the water would drain out of it if the holes were down, the answer was " How ? The water ain't draining now ! It'll flow thru the pipe. If you put the holes on top, the trench has to fill with water before it'll get into the pipe. "

I wasn't to worried about that, but I did "help" the situation ! I added 1/2" holes along both sides of the pipe before I put the sock on it sp the water only had to go up 2" instead of 4" !

theoldwizard1 · Dec 12, 2015

PeterT said:
Nice work, now you have piece of mind when its wet out, and you know exactly what is down there.

The corner where the dry well was placed was the natural low spot in the yard and flooded every spring. It could take a week or more after a heavy rain before you could walk back there or mow the grass.

The dry well does have an overflow to the surface. A couple of time a year water does overflow the well, but I use a little 1/10 hp paddle pump with a hose out to the street and pump the well down a couple of feet. Only take 4-6 hours or so.

pstnbly · Dec 12, 2015

The holes go down. If the holes are pointed up the water has to come up 3 1/2" before it starts to drain. Don't over think it.

roc_on_the_rocks · Dec 13, 2015

pstnbly said:
The holes go down. If the holes are pointed up the water has to come up 3 1/2" before it starts to drain. Don't over think it.

With this scenario, wouldn't be then the case to have the pipe placed 3 1/2" lower (with the holes up)?

patrick66 · Dec 13, 2015

Found your thread on the French drain - it has given me good ideas, thanks!

ishiboo · Dec 13, 2015

The issue is if the holes are up, it only captures the surface water from almost immediately above the drain tile, until the water in the ground around it gets to the top of the tile. Then, it will only be able to drain the water at the top of the tile. With the holes down, it will be able to drain everything from the ground down to the bottom of the tile. That means with the holes up, all the gravel from the top down is basically worthless.

If the water cannot percolate downwards through the ground, it will also travel laterally... which means rain away from the garage will be able to pass into the gravel very easily, but everything from the top of the tile down will be stuck there with the only options to move to the garage foundation or down through the ground.

So, there is some effectiveness, but not nearly as much as if you did it correctly.

Thinking of putting the holes down allowing it to drain is not really the issue because the path of substantially least resistance in a tile setup is for the water to flow, via gravity at the correct slope, through the tile into an open area like a sump. Holes down it will still carry more water away from where you don't want water.

ishiboo · Dec 13, 2015

appledrains is a great source and has a video on this. It says it a bit more elegantly than I did:

beakie · Dec 24, 2015

desired result: remove excess water from surface/ stop garage from flooding

the end result whether holes up or holes down is water below the surface is removed from the area.

worrying about the water level getting to the top of a 4" drainage pipe doesn't really matter when the pipe is below the surface.

you can support whatever side you wish, the desired result is still accomplished.

mmelton005 · Apr 12, 2016

I am going to start something like this around a corner of my house where water likes to collect. Thankfully I have a ditch that i can "stub out" the drain pipe too and will no have to use a dry well. What are your feelings on the black plastic pipe vs pvc?

NUTTSGT · Apr 12, 2016

Since this has come back up and a fairly wet Spring, how has this been working out for you ?

GLTHFJ60 · Apr 12, 2016

Very interested as I'm planning on doing something very similar on my own property.

DougWil · Apr 12, 2016

I have done a couple of systems similar in the past, usually run out to the curb because the the slope allowed it.

It was shocking how much water gushed out of that 4" pipe during a rainstorm and trickled out for days/weeks afterward.

Bondo · Apr 12, 2016

mmelton005 said:
I am going to start something like this around a corner of my house where water likes to collect. Thankfully I have a ditch that i can "stub out" the drain pipe too and will no have to use a dry well. What are your feelings on the black plastic pipe vs pvc?

Ayuh,.... We used the black plastic tile with the slits in it all the time,....

Much easier, 'n just as effective as the pvc pipe, alot less connectors,...

Btw,... Holes down on the pvc stops dirt intrusion,...

pstnbly · Apr 12, 2016

hippie2cams said:
if you put holes down water drains out of pipe,holes up water drains into pipe.

The holes go down. Water infiltrates the pipe from the bottom. With the holes up water must rise 4" before drainage starts, then when drainage stops 4" of water remains.

ishiboo · Apr 12, 2016

Bondo said:
Ayuh,.... We used the black plastic tile with the slits in it all the time,....

Much easier, 'n just as effective as the pvc pipe, alot less connectors,...

Btw,... Holes down on the pvc stops dirt intrusion,...

I have a few thousand feet of black perf tile with sock, and I would definitely do areas around buildings with PVC if I did it again. Much easier to pitch correctly and install around buildings, and it seems to be less likely to clog.

mmelton005 · Apr 12, 2016

NUTTSGT said:
Since this has come back up and a fairly wet Spring, how has this been working out for you ?

That's what I was thinking. It has been very wet here in KY.

jay8s · Apr 12, 2016

I am about to do something similar. I have some low spots in the yard and am planning on putting drains and cisterns to remedy the problem. How is this one holding up?

TractorJeff · Apr 13, 2016

20 years ago, we had a really bad wet spot in the middle of our driveway. I dug it down and away to a hole/pit. We put sock covered black tube in the trench starting at a rock filled hole/pit. Ran it down the trench to the collection hole/pit which we had filled with oversize. From the midpoint of that pit we did run out to a surface drain on the edge of our field.
It all flowed and still flows.
Water flows laterally, so in my opinion, even if the black plastic collapses, it would still allow water to sneak through because the plastic is a gap through the soil.

GJoustra · Apr 13, 2016

Thank you very much for posting, I started last night and funny to see this thread popping up.

theoldwizard1 · Apr 13, 2016

mmelton005 said:
What are your feelings on the black plastic pipe vs pvc?

That is not "standard" PVC ! This is PVC "sewer and drain" pipe, that has a flared/belled end so that pieces can be joined without a coupler. I believe it is less expensive than regular PVC or ABS.

theoldwizard1 · Apr 13, 2016

NUTTSGT said:
Since this has come back up and a fairly wet Spring, how has this been working out for you ?

Spring is always the challenge ! A few weeks ago the dry well over flowed and I did have to hook up my little 1/10 hp paddle pump. If I did NOT I would have had a swamp in that corner of the yard for a couple of days !

I only pump the dry well down to about 12-24" below the surface. The rest (approximately 48" deep) will percolate into the soil over a few days.

This past weekend we had some good rain. I check the dry well and it was within 1-2" from the top. The sod in that area was very "squishy" ! A day later it was down 12".

But, the real benefit is that garage floor is dry ! I get a bit of rain water under the door (bad weatherstrip) and it gets damp around some of the cracks in the floor, but NO WATER ON THE FLOOR !!!

I have not had any "measurable" water in the garage since that system was installed about 5 years ago.

theoldwizard1 · Apr 13, 2016

DougWil said:
I have done a couple of systems similar in the past, usually run out to the curb because the the slope allowed it.

I would have loved to have been able to run it out front to the curb, but the pipe would have to have been run very close to the surface in order to get any pitch and I would probably have to have break the curb to get the exit point low enough.

theoldwizard1 · Apr 13, 2016

jay8s said:
I am about to do something similar. I have some low spots in the yard and am planning on putting drains and cisterns to remedy the problem. How is this one holding up?

Well, with no inspection camera I can really say but it is working fine !

If you go back to the beginning and review my situation, the area behind the garage was about 6" above the garage floor. It is my garden and lowering it would have meant it would be swamped out almost every year (which was why I raised it).

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The trench next to the back foundation of the garage was close to 36" deep and back filled with 3/4" crushed stone and about 4-6" of stone dust. The second row of double stacked "garden wall" blocks were installed and I have a few rain barrels on top of them (which is why there are 2 rows).

Overall, I could not be happier with the results !

theoldwizard1 · Apr 13, 2016

mmelton005 said:
That's what I was thinking. It has been very wet here in KY.

The key is having some place to send the water. An existing ditch is ideal. If you install a dry well remember, someday IT WILL OVER FLOW ! If it is far enough away from any structures, this may not be an issue.

Northislander · Jan 8, 2017

Btw,... Holes down on the pvc stops dirt intrusion,...[/QUOTE]

I know this is an old thread but as a contractor that installs and fixes a lot of drainage systems. Just wanted to point out it is holes down, sediment and sand will fill the pipe if the holes are up i have dug up and replaced a lot of failed systems with holes up

Sawdustmaker · Mar 9, 2017

My father-in-law was a general contractor (I worked with him during the summer) and we put in on of these drains as part of a job. The pipe (sheathed with a landscape sock) was placed holes up and was set below the point where the cinder block sat on the footing, then covered with gravel. Before the pipe was placed the cinder block wall was also hot mopped with tar over a rubber membrane. Also covering the footing. I thought at the time it was a bit of overkill (IMHO), but it was what the inspector and code called for. Yes, I dug the trench, 2' wide, 3.5' deep and 22' long.

Lunker · Mar 9, 2017

Sawdustmaker said:
My father-in-law was a general contractor (I worked with him during the summer) and we put in on of these drains as part of a job. The pipe (sheathed with a landscape sock) was placed holes up and was set below the point where the cinder block sat on the footing, then covered with gravel. Before the pipe was placed the cinder block wall was also hot mopped with tar over a rubber membrane. Also covering the footing. I thought at the time it was a bit of overkill (IMHO), but it was what the inspector and code called for. Yes, I dug the trench, 2' wide, 3.5' deep and 22' long.

Holes down. I've never seen foundation drain tile run holes up

Trey T · Mar 9, 2017

what material did you use to sock/filter the drain pipe?

theoldwizard1 · Mar 9, 2017

Trey T said:
what material did you use to sock/filter the drain pipe?

What they had at Home Depot.

The trench should be lined with heavy duty landscape cloth. A small amount of gravel should be placed in the trench before the pipe to help adjust the pitch. Fill with gravel to about 6-12" from the finished grade, fold in the cloth and then put top soil on it.

My dry well has no place to overflow to. About 2-3 times a year it WILL overflow and I will have standing water in that corner of my yard. I can use a small "paddle" pump and get it down below grade in a few hours or just let it soak in overnight.

Previous to the dry well, I would flood that corner 4-6 times per year and the soak in time could be as long as 2-4 DAYS !!

My French Drain and Dry Well Project

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