Getting exisiting Wifi and cell signals thru metal siding

StevenMorgan · Jan 22, 2016

I have a new pole barn with standard metal roofing and walls in the backyard approximately 75ft from the house. My house is a large 3500sqft farmhouse with plaster and lath walls. I have a Netgear AC1900 Nighthawk router on the front corner of the house and the house has really good Wifi except for the opposite end of the house which looses a bar or two. I just hard wired a Netgear AC1900 extender with Cat5e as an access point at that end of the house to provide 100% coverage.

When I'm standing outside the garage, I can get full wifi bars from the extender, occasionally dropping one bar off.... Cell service is great.

Once I step into my faraday cage of a garage, with all the doors closed, I get nothing. What's the cheapest thing to get cell and wifi service inside the garage when it's great service right outside the building?

vartz04 · Jan 22, 2016

Best bet is run a hard line to the shop and another access point. Not easy but shouldn't be really pricey.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

StevenMorgan · Jan 22, 2016

Here you can see my backyard layout. The green building is my woodshed next to the garage. You can see the back mudroom on the house where the wifi extender is located. There are too many mature trees, driveway, and buildings to trench and run a hardline.

wyliesdiesels · Jan 22, 2016

Buy a Ubiquiti NSM5. Connect it to your existing wifi. Plug a CAT5e cable into the PoE/power adapter and plug in the other end into another nighthawk for WiFi in the garage.

If u want cell service in the garage youre gonna need to find a radio company to install a cell repeater.

I install them at work but due to the transmitter power levels, they need to be installed by someone qualified.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0049...station+m5&dpPl=1&dpID=315Ec7am20L&ref=plSrch

happy2rv · Jan 22, 2016

There are many options for the wi-fi:

As wyliesdiesels suggested, use ethernet over power line adapters to get a wired connection into the garage and then put an access point in the garage if desired.

Use a wireless extender with an antenna mounted outside the garage

Run cat5 or fiber between the house and garage and install an access point in the garage

For cellular, you might try something like this cell phone booster it's intended for a car so you would have to supply an AC to USB adapter to power it and the phone has to stay in the cradle, but the price is better than most of the other options. That online store shows many of the offerings for cellular repeaters, but most of the ones made for a house or building are several hundred dollars and would require more extensive installation.

wyliesdiesels · Jan 22, 2016

happy2rv said:
There are many options for the wi-fi:

As wyliesdiesels suggested, use ethernet over power line adapters to get a wired connection into the garage and then put an access point in the garage if desired.

Use a wireless extender with an antenna mounted outside the garage

Run cat5 or fiber between the house and garage and install an access point in the garage

For cellular, you might try something like this cell phone booster it's intended for a car so you would have to supply an AC to USB adapter to power it and the phone has to stay in the cradle, but the price is better than most of the other options. That online store shows many of the offerings for cellular repeaters, but most of the ones made for a house or building are several hundred dollars and would require more extensive installation.

My solution wasnt a ethernet over powerline adapter.

happy2rv · Jan 22, 2016

wyliesdiesels said:
My solution wasnt a ethernet over powerline adapter.

Sorry, I see that now, I misread it. The ethernet over power adapter adapter, something like this is an option. I've never tried ethernet over power adapters and haven't heard great things about them so I'm not sure how good an option they are.

TK-421 · Jan 22, 2016

Get a cell and wifi extender with an external antenna that you can mount outside the building. That'll pick up the really good signal, transport it over a hard line connection, and then pump it out inside the steel building.

StevenMorgan · Jan 22, 2016

Looks like a couple hundred for all this:

So I need one of these outdoor wifi antennas
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004EHSV4W/?tag=atomicindus08-20

And I could install one of these, or another router. But this is much cheaper since all I need is wifi
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HXT84DG/?tag=atomicindus08-20

And then I do it all over again with an outdoor cell antenna to an internal amplifier?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0014KOB6Y/?tag=atomicindus08-20

happy2rv · Jan 22, 2016

Yes, you need to get the antennas on the outside and some type of repeater inside.

There are endless possibilities for how to accomplish this. You could use a range extender with removable antenna, like this along with an exterior antenna like this for the wifi. I don't have experience with these particular devices, but the extender boosts the range of your existing wifi without having to set up an entirely new router and the total cost for that is around $55 for the extender and antenna.

Same thing with the cellular. You need to get the antenna on the outside and repeat the signal inside. Search Google or Amazon for cellular repeaters and lots of options will come up.

404 · Jan 22, 2016

AFAIK the amplifier is not mandatory. Put a big tv antenna on the outside, and an identical tv antenna on the inside, connected by the correct cable and matching transformers on both ends if needed for the cable you use, and it will all work fine.

wyliesdiesels · Jan 23, 2016

StevenMorgan said:
Looks like a couple hundred for all this:

So I need one of these outdoor wifi antennas
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004EHSV4W/?tag=atomicindus08-20

And I could install one of these, or another router. But this is much cheaper since all I need is wifi
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HXT84DG/?tag=atomicindus08-20

And then I do it all over again with an outdoor cell antenna to an internal amplifier?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0014KOB6Y/?tag=atomicindus08-20

U may have some issues with the loco as far as signal goes. I would use a full powered NSM5.

Ive used locos before at shorter distances with a NSM5 as the AP and had marginal signal.

With cell boosters theres a few things u need to know.

First, do u have a newer LTE phone? If so, then u need a cell repeater that does LTE and 4G- essentially make sure it operates on the LTE and 4G frequencies. It also needs to work on the frequencies your carrier uses. The one u selected may or may not work for your carriers frequencies.

Second u need to make sure youre carrier will allow the device on their network. If they won't then the repeater wont work. It will get signal but u wont be able to use your phone through it.

Instead of using a high power repeater u might see if u can get a micro tower. It plugs into your internet and then repeats a cell signal that your phone connects to.

ATT use to give them out for free.

happy2rv said:
Yes, you need to get the antennas on the outside and some type of repeater inside.

There are endless possibilities for how to accomplish this. You could use a range extender with removable antenna, like this along with an exterior antenna like this for the wifi. I don't have experience with these particular devices, but the extender boosts the range of your existing wifi without having to set up an entirely new router and the total cost for that is around $55 for the extender and antenna.

Same thing with the cellular. You need to get the antenna on the outside and repeat the signal inside. Search Google or Amazon for cellular repeaters and lots of options will come up.

A range extender plugged in inside isnt going to work because theres no wifi signal inside his garage. The solution i provided picks up the signal on the outside then brings it inside via CAT5e

404 said:
AFAIK the amplifier is not mandatory. Put a big tv antenna on the outside, and an identical tv antenna on the inside, connected by the correct cable and matching transformers on both ends if needed for the cable you use, and it will all work fine.

A TV antenna? Are u kidding me? :lol_hitti

I think youre on the wrong thread. UHF TV operates on a different frequency(470mhz-890mhz) than wifi which is 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz.

A TV antennae aint gonna work for this.

happy2rv · Jan 23, 2016

Yeah, I didn't think about that range extender only having one antenna. They do make them with support for 2 antennas.

wyliesdiesels · Jan 23, 2016

Has nothing to do antennaes.

Range extenders pick up existing signal and then rebroadcast it.

If the signal is crappy or non existent to begin with then the range extender wont work.

dogdog · Jan 23, 2016

as far as wifi option..... if you are relative close to the outside wall of the building.... get a long USB cable and stick that USB wifi stick outside would work......

happy2rv · Jan 23, 2016

wyliesdiesels said:
Has nothing to do antennaes.

Range extenders pick up existing signal and then rebroadcast it.

If the signal is crappy or non existent to begin with then the range extender wont work.

Well, it's not just antennas and I agree just having 2 antennas in an of itself isn't the only factor but many of the "range extenders" are really store and forward and with 2 antennas, one inside and one outside, this would work. Granted, not all would work in this configuration.

StevenMorgan · Jan 23, 2016

Probably a dumb question, but what about drilling a small hole thru the metal siding... just big enough to stick a cheap wifi repeater's antenna through. Wouldn't the repeater be able see the signal outside the garage and rebroadcast it inside. I'm sure the nanostation is the real way to accomplish this, but it's a residential workshop for me alone, and no networking going on inside...

My wife and I both have iPhone's on the Verizon network. I'll touch base with them and see if I can't get a micro tower from them.

happy2rv · Jan 23, 2016

The problem is if the antenna is on the outside it won't rebroadcast inside and if it's on the inside it won't pick up the signal outside unless you have an antenna in each location. Now if you have a window or large enough opening for the repeater/range extender to be inside and pick up signal and rebroadcast it within the shop that would work.

I'm not sure if this access point/range extender with 2 antennas would work like I suggested putting one antenna inside and one outside or not, but you could use 2 of them one with an antenna outside and connect the ethernet from the first one to the second one to rebroadcast inside. At $16 each, that's still pretty cheap.

vartz04 · Jan 23, 2016

The repeater I have had an Ethernet port so you could technically put the repeater outside. Run the cable inside, then plug an access point into that. That is going to result in some slow speeds I think.

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404 · Jan 23, 2016

wyliesdiesels said:
[/b]

A TV antenna? Are u kidding me? I think youre on the wrong thread. UHF TV operates on a different frequency(470mhz-890mhz) than wifi which is 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz.

A TV antennae aint gonna work for this.

An antenna designed for longer wave lengths also picks up shorter wavelengths. It has been done, it works. It is not something I invented.

There is no money to be made in this for vendors, you won't see an ad for it.

ishiboo · Jan 23, 2016

For the cell service issue, see if your carrier offers a femtocell. AT&T/Sprint/Verizon do or did. It will need Internet access in the form of an ethernet port.

404 said:
An antenna designed for longer wave lengths also picks up shorter wavelengths. It has been done, it works. It is not something I invented.

There is no money to be made in this for vendors, you won't see an ad for it.

Sure, and you could just use a piece of wire or a coat hanger too. But this isn't AM radio, with the sensitive transmit/receive levels and modern high-frequency communication having a correctly designed antenna is just about just as important as the radio. Plus a TV antenna is ginormous and looks like **** and a simple wifi antenna is tiny, and probably not even any more money. You'll spend as much converting the coax to have an SMA on the end as you would in any difference in antenna cost. Hell, 99.9999% of what we're talking about already comes with an antenna for free?

toplessHO · Jan 23, 2016

wireless bridge is another option
the antenna is smaller than a dinner plate and doesnt look that bad.
Put another router inside and use it for interior wifi.

StevenMorgan · Jan 23, 2016

Wouldn't the nanostation be acting as a bridge in this setup anyway...?

Ubiquiti NBE-M5-16 High-Performance airMAX Bridge NanoBeam M5 16dBi https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00N9ZIEJC/?tag=atomicindus08-20

vs

Ubiquiti Nanostation NSM5, 5GHz, 802.11a/n Hi-power 20 dBm Minimum, 2x2 MIMO AirMax TDMA PoE Station https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0049AVWAO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

wyliesdiesels · Jan 23, 2016

404 said:
An antenna designed for longer wave lengths also picks up shorter wavelengths. It has been done, it works. It is not something I invented.

There is no money to be made in this for vendors, you won't see an ad for it.

Wont work for a mimo wifi signal such as what the nighthawk uses.

And theres the issue of how to change that signal to an ethernet signal.

Im curious. Have u tried doing this with a TV antennae?

toplessHO said:
wireless bridge is another option
the antenna is smaller than a dinner plate and doesnt look that bad.
Put another router inside and use it for interior wifi.

The solution i provided with the nanostation m5 IS a wireless bridge.

StevenMorgan said:
Wouldn't the nanostation be acting as a bridge in this setup anyway...?

Ubiquiti NBE-M5-16 High-Performance airMAX Bridge NanoBeam M5 16dBi https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00N9ZIEJC/?tag=atomicindus08-20

vs

Ubiquiti Nanostation NSM5, 5GHz, 802.11a/n Hi-power 20 dBm Minimum, 2x2 MIMO AirMax TDMA PoE Station https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0049AVWAO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Yes with either one.

The first one will have a more directional signal.

Whatever wireless bridge u get, make sure to put it in station mode.

To be honest, Ive never done a wireless bridge using a wireless router as the AP. Ive always had 2 UBNT radios- one at each end. But it should work fine as Ive used NSM2s and NSM5s as wireless APs before.

404 · Jan 23, 2016

wyliesdiesels said:
Wont work for a mimo wifi signal such as what the nighthawk uses.

And theres the issue of how to change that signal to an ethernet signal.

Im curious. Have u tried doing this with a TV antennae?

I have done a poor job of explaining this.
There are 2 antennas not one. One TV antenna is outside the steel building. The other is well inside the building. The 2 antenna are connected to each other with the correct impedance cable. Flat antenna (300 ohms I think) twin lead if not using baluns.

This pair of antennas makes a passive "hole" in the building for radio signals to get in and out. A feed horn through the building wall could be another way of doing the same thing.

No ether net is provided.

No I have never tried it. Have seen several posts on it but I cannot find them now.

dfiler2 · Jan 23, 2016

I asked the same question a couple of months ago, I can't get wifi for my phone, although I do have wifi in the shop. It was suggested that I could put a Yaggi antenna on the outside and an indoor antenna inside, hook them together and get cell phone reception inside. I get great reception just outside the building. I got this antenna for the outside and this one for the inside.

My thought was I could try it and if it didn't work I would need to get an amplifier to hook between the two. I have the mast built but haven't put it up yet. I'll try to get it installed tomorrow and let you know what happens.

ishiboo · Jan 23, 2016

404 said:
I have done a poor job of explaining this.
There are 2 antennas not one. One TV antenna is outside the steel building. The other is well inside the building. The 2 antenna are connected to each other with the correct impedance cable. Flat antenna (300 ohms I think) twin lead if not using baluns.

This pair of antennas makes a passive "hole" in the building for radio signals to get in and out. A feed horn through the building wall could be another way of doing the same thing.

No ether net is provided.

No I have never tried it. Have seen several posts on it but I cannot find them now.

Yeah, that would be a complete waste of money, and not work at all. Between the antennas being completely wrong, to the wiring being completely wrong, to the concept not working at all at the levels we are talking... it's simply not how stuff works.

The concept of a passive repeater is not false, you just would need a ton of gain and the correct setup for it to even be considered functional, and at the signal levels and frequencies involved it's not going to be feasible.

wyliesdiesels · Jan 29, 2016

I use to work for a motorola radio shop.

We tested antennaes all the time.

Antennaes are designed and tuned for specific frequencies.

If we got an antennae with the tag missing we had a tool that could sweep the antennae and actually figure out what frequency it was setup for.

No way this will work for modern MIMO(multi-input multiple-output) wifi signals that require 3 or more antennaes to function. The OP has a nighthawk R7000 AC1900 (I have the same exact one) that uses MIMO signalling.

I do this for a living trust me. Your best option is a wireless bridge or wireless station on the outside where the signal is great with an ethernet running inside. With that u have all the flexability needed to do what u want.

Getting exisiting Wifi and cell signals thru metal siding

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