New Garage layout - Can it be done better?

Chadddada · Jan 27, 2016

Hello,

Before anything goes into the garage I wanted to get some more input on the layout. This is a 30' x24' pole barn/garage. The walls are all open right now. I may put up sheetrock/plywood flush to the 2 bys mounted to the poles or flush on the poles, not sure yet.
Things that will be in there:
-A couple of rolling tool chests, 36-48"s
-Tool cart
-2 post lift (pretty standard width, like 11'-12' outside to outside)
-At least 1 8' bench, possibly 2.
-A welding table (4'x4') probably.
-A few shelves for storage.

What will be in there? I will have at least 1 car in there all the time and possibly a 2nd car, or 3rd, for parts and storage.

Here is what I am thinking right now...

Things I am worried about.
1.The lift, if I put it there, is a bit cockeyed from the main slider coming in. I have the single slider because this is in my backyard and I wanted to preserve as much of that as possible. Trying to visualize it it seems like I should be able to pull into it OK.
2.If the lift is there, and a car is in the air, will I be able to pull under the back of the 1 car to get the 2nd (or 3rd) car in?
3. How tight will it be if I had 3 cars in there, the 2nd and 3rd on wheel dollies just to move them around with ease.

What I am wondering:
1.Is there a better place to put the lift in there? I was thinking bottom or top of the garage (looking @ the sketch) and to the left as much as possible.
2.Will I be able to get 3 cars in there and be able to move?
3.With 2 cars, and the stuff listed, how tight is it going to be?

I am trying to visualize it with a tape measure and some boxes etc but it's still hard to tell. What better ways can I do this layout to maximize space and car wrenching usefulness?

Bluedodge · Jan 27, 2016

Is it still possible to put a second garage door (or wider single door) in this?

...or has the shell already been put up with just the one single door?

matt_i · Jan 27, 2016

I would second that. It looks very difficult to park the second car in there on anything other than an angle to miss the lift...and with a lot of precision and 2nd person spotting to miss it on the way in and the garage doorframe on the way out.

Add a 2nd door and expand driveway/pad to match would be a lot easier. Figure out how to store stuff in attic or use the high walls you have for the car lift to store stuff.

To get 3 cars inside at present scale would seem nearly impossible.

teamextreme · Jan 27, 2016

I'm the master of tight parking and squeezing vehicles into little areas and there's no way I'd consider this layout as feasible. At least not for getting that second car in the middle. You really need a wider door to get both in there. You could use wheel dollies to pull it in straight, then push it over sideways, but the lift prevents that. Or, at a minimum, move the door further left. The car on the lift is basically centered on the door, which is nice for loading the lift, but at the expense of trying to get the car into the center area. Other than that, it looks good.

Chadddada · Jan 27, 2016

Bluedodge said:
Is it still possible to put a second garage door (or wider single door) in this?

...or has the shell already been put up with just the one single door?

Shell is already up with the single 10' wide slider. I am going to have the driveway come right up to the door and not cut to the left at all. It basically sits in the back rt of my yard and I don't want to have it cut into the center too much.
The sides are on now but you can see the 10' door and where I want to keep open in the yard.

Chadddada · Jan 27, 2016

teamextreme said:
The car on the lift is basically centered on the door, which is nice for loading the lift, but at the expense of trying to get the car into the center area. Other than that, it looks good.

I wonder if I could get the lift to a better spot? But it would make for some tight turns possibly. I may just have to live with this setup to keep a bit of a backyard in suburbia /shrug.

Killer95Stang · Jan 27, 2016

How about the lift on the left side at a 45 to 60 degree angle toward the left corner of the garage. Then you just pull in and make a left turn to go straight onto the lift. The car on the right would just pull straight in and straight out.

Move the workbenches where the welder and toolbox is, to gain extra space on the left.

Colin Len · Jan 27, 2016

Killer95Stang said:
How about the lift on the left side at a 45 to 60 degree angle toward the left corner of the garage. Then you just pull in and make a left turn to go straight onto the lift. The car on the right would just pull straight in and straight out.

Move the workbenches where the welder and toolbox is, to gain extra space on the left.

Exactly what I was thinking. Lift on the left so you would pull in and turn left to position on the lift. You'd still have to move cars around to get two in there at the same time but with the original layout I don't think it'd be really even possible to squeeze that 2nd car in.

If you moved the lift to the left then you'd probably want to re-arrange the other stuff to. I'd move the workbenches from the left wall to the back wall and in general just reconsider where all that other stuff should go.

Dick in Wisconsin · Jan 27, 2016

Bluedodge said:
Is it still possible to put a second garage door (or wider single door) in this?

matt_i said:
I would second that. It looks very difficult to park the second car in there on anything other than an angle to miss the lift...and with a lot of precision and 2nd person spotting to miss it on the way in and the garage doorframe on the way out.

Add a 2nd door and expand driveway/pad to match would be a lot easier. Figure out how to store stuff in attic or use the high walls you have for the car lift to store stuff. To get 3 cars inside at present scale would seem nearly impossible.

teamextreme said:
I'm the master of tight parking and squeezing vehicles into little areas and there's no way I'd consider this layout as feasible.

I agree with all three posters. I realize you're along pretty good so far, but I would consider the following:

1. Reconfigure the front wall for two overhead garage doors, one for each stall. The tracks can be installed to hug the ceiling to give you some height where the lift is.

2. Is the lift going to support tall vehicles like pickups? or just lower profile cars?

3. Do you really need 3'11" between the life and the outside wall? Every inch you move the lift to the right gives you another inch in the open area. Any extra/unused space along the right-hand wall is wasted.

4. Does the workbench need to be 36" (3') deep? I am about to install workbenches in my new race shop and I'm struggling with the depth ... 24"? 28"? 30"? 32"? 36"? I want them to be as deep as necessary, but realize that any extra depth takes precious space from between the bench and the race car.

Good luck with your project. Keep us informed.

Chadddada · Jan 27, 2016

**** in Wisconsin said:
I agree with all three posters. I realize you're along pretty good so far, but I would consider the following:

1. Reconfigure the front wall for two overhead garage doors, one for each stall. The tracks can be installed to hug the ceiling to give you some height where the lift is.

Probably not going to do that, just don't want to cut into the backyard anymore. I have a slider on there now just to get it up and rolling. I may swap it for a rollup but the slider can be insulated some.

**** in Wisconsin said:
2. Is the lift going to support tall vehicles like pickups? or just lower profile cars?

Opps, omitted ceiling height. Ended up at 11'10"s after the pour. I have 6-7" of cement in. I actually put haunches (pits) under where the lift will go for 2 36"x36" sections of 10-12" thick cement.

**** in Wisconsin said:
3. Do you really need 3'11" between the life and the outside wall? Every inch you move the lift to the right gives you another inch in the open area. Any extra/unused space along the right-hand wall is wasted.

Yeah not sure. I am struggling with the distance that will ensure I can pull a car apart. I maybe I only need the post the minimum distance since the back of the car will be over a decent amount on the arms from there.

**** in Wisconsin said:
4. Does the workbench need to be 36" (3') deep? I am about to install workbenches in my new race shop and I'm struggling with the depth ... 24"? 28"? 30"? 32"? 36"? I want them to be as deep as necessary, but realize that any extra depth takes precious space from between the bench and the race car.

Yeah just my guesstimation on bench sizes. I just want to have a lot of surface area.

**** in Wisconsin said:
Good luck with your project. Keep us informed.

Thanks much! Yeah I will be working on/building some race cars in here. I am tracking my build here but figured I would break out this question over in general: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=303561

sharpe427 · Jan 27, 2016

Mostly agree with previous posters. IMO, second door a necessity unless the second car is a garage queen that rarely comes out/in. For the benches I would stick to 24-28" depth; good for work but will keep clutter to a minimum & maximize space. I found that instead of lower shelves @ workbench, invest in some tool chests as bases for counter tops and shop will stay much neater/organized. Fit storage into top rafters as much as possible but avoid stuff hanging from roof--makes the feel too claustrophobic. I would leave the lift as is so that you can actually work on right side. Any tighter would be a real hassle to live with long term.

dave*99 · Jan 27, 2016

Chadddada said:
Opps, omitted ceiling height. Ended up at 11'10"s after the pour. I have 6-7" of cement in. I actually put haunches (pits) under where the lift will go for 2 36"x36" sections of 10-12" thick cement.

You are going to wish you had more ceiling height for your lift.

The pits are unnecessary. With 6 to 7" of concrete you can put the lift anywhere on the slab.

Chadddada · Jan 27, 2016

dave*99 said:
You are going to wish you had more ceiling height for your lift.

Yeah a lot of the Bendpaks with the overhead are a little over 12'. I may end up getting a lift with a bit of vertical adjustment, with the cables still overhead, or a bendpak with the cables on the ground... not sure yet.

taumac · Jan 27, 2016

I would move the tv to safer spot. I agree to would be tough to get 2nd car in there. Without changing too much I say move the lift and far right and up as possible.

PassnThru · Jan 27, 2016

Don't overthink it. Attach as few things to the wall as possible.
You'll change whatever you start with in a few years. Then you'll change that in a few years.
You'll learn a lot about where things should be once you actually start using it. Then as you acquire more tools things will have to move.
I, at least, have found that it is a never ending process. What you move in the garage when it is done will take up the entire garage.
Two years later the same stuff will only take up one quarter of the garage.

Playwme · Jan 28, 2016

As stated before, move the lift to the left and angled. As it sits now, if you're working on a car on the lift you'll be constantly walking around the 2nd car to get to the benches and stuff. Keep the top right corner clear so you can put the second Car right up on the corner out of the way and maximise the floor space when you need it.

Chadddada · Jan 28, 2016

Couple of other ideas based off feedback and one of my original ideas that I talked myself out of.

Lift towards the south wall. I could get the 2nd car in there no problem and possibly a 3rd car on dollies (it would be tight with that). I feel like this will maximize the space available to me though but I am not sure how much of a pain it will be to get a car into the lift. More than likely when the race car comes back into the garage it will be there for 3-4 weeks between races so it won't have to come in/out all the time. It could just be a stripped parts car sitting on the dollies. I could shove that 3rd car really far back into that NE corner also.

Based off feedback in this thread. More to the top center and a decent angle. I am not sure how much wasted space will be in the garage like this though. I guess it leaves me plenty of room around the perimeter of the garage for tools/parts/storage.

More extreme angle.

dave*99 · Jan 28, 2016

Based on the third drawing in this set, try this:
Move lift deeper into garage. Locate third car where the 3 "shelf 4'x2'" are. Using dollies to get it there may work.

dave*99 · Jan 28, 2016

And give the dog a milk bone.

Chadddada · Jan 28, 2016

This was if the lift was deeper in the garage on the rt side.

Joe Reed · Jan 28, 2016

What kind of cars are you going to have in there? Looking at your drawings, those cars are only about 12' long...

dave*99 · Jan 28, 2016

I was thinking the lift could be angled as it was in the third drawing of post #17.

dave*99 · Jan 28, 2016

Chadddada said:
This was if the lift was deeper in the garage on the rt side.

Take this drawing. Put the lift on an angle where the dog is sitting. Put the workbenches and compressor on the top right corner of the drawing. Park third car closer to door.

Chadddada · Jan 28, 2016

And this if it was in the top. I think I could pull into the lift easy, could get a 3rd car on the south wall on dollies (parts car) and possibly a driver straight in.

1949 caddyman · Jan 28, 2016

A few things, if the car doesn't run it is hard to make the turn onto the lift. Keep car min of 3' from wall. Like doing a tire change, you need room to lift tire.

dave*99 · Jan 28, 2016

Chadddada said:
And this if it was in the top. I think I could pull into the lift easy, could get a 3rd car on the south wall on dollies (parts car) and possibly a driver straight in.

Rotate the lift clockwise 45 degrees. Park third car right where the 9'7" dimension call out is.

ASHMAN_AZ · Jan 28, 2016

I would put the lift in the upper left corner at a 45 degree angle with no stuff along the walls in that corner.

Or maybe you should do an in-floor lift inline with the garage opening, would give you much more room than the 2 post. Depending on how you plan to use the lift that might work for you.

shadyluke · Jan 28, 2016

Chadddada said:
More extreme angle.

This, but move the lift a little farther in so you can get the other car off the wall a bit more. This way if something is stuck on the lift (disabled), you can still get another vehicle in and out. You always want a pretty straight shot into the lift.

Chadddada · Jan 28, 2016

Deep into the top corner:

dave*99 · Jan 28, 2016

Chadddada said:
Deep into the top corner:

This is good. Easy access to lift and lots of flexibility for the lower left corner of drawing. Could be a car, bench, storage. Maybe another dog?

dave*99 · Jan 28, 2016

I see you pictured the lift with the car backed in. You also show the lift columns centered about the car. The drawing is fine for this stage of planning, but as you get closer to install, you will want to draw that accurately.

Here is an example: I have a 2 post Rotary SPO-A10 lift. It is an asymmetric lift. The front doors of the car open without hitting the lift posts. So in the context of your drawing, with my asymmetric lift, those lift posts would be located maybe 3 feet toward the front of the car. And based on that consideration, I would not back the car in. Consult the lift owners manual for details. They often give bay layouts and clearances.

Chadddada · Jan 28, 2016

dave*99 said:
So in the context of your drawing, with my asymmetric lift, those lift posts would be located maybe 3 feet toward the front of the car. And based on that consideration, I would not back the car in. Consult the lift owners manual for details. They often give bay layouts and clearances.

Great point. Yeah, there is a good chance I will end up with an asymmetrical lift as well. I guess I could flip it and drive straight in, would just need enough room to move an engine hoist to the front of the car and back out around the lift. Or still back in and flip the posts to have the car doors open away from the wall.

dave*99 · Jan 28, 2016

If you find enough room in front of the lift to retract the engine hoist, you will be good to go. You can then raise the car and push the hoist under the car to the other side of the garage.

Take another shot at an accurate layout of the lift to know for sure. It looks like you have plenty of room with this configuration.

And the wall on the bottom of the drawing is a good spot for shelves located above any car that may be wheeled up against the wall.

Also keep in mind lots of things change when the car on the lift is raised. You can park another car under it. You can walk and wheel things, tool boxes etc. through the space.

taumac · Jan 28, 2016

Chadddada said:
This was if the lift was deeper in the garage on the rt side.

I like lift location in that drawing.

Falcon67 · Jan 28, 2016

dave*99 said:
This is good. Easy access to lift and lots of flexibility for the lower left corner of drawing. Could be a car, bench, storage. Maybe another dog?

That's a better idea. I have a 16' long car parked 3' from one wall in the door opening. With the car back 4' from the door, I can just barely squeeze a truck into the next space - the door is 16' wide. When I place the lift I plan to get, no trucks will fit. IMHO, the first layout is a non-starter.

A truck "fits" on paper but using tape on the floor for the lift locations, no large vehicle will clear the lift post and the door frame.

dave*99 · Jan 28, 2016

Falcon67 said:
That's a better idea. I have a 16' long car parked 3' from one wall in the door opening. With the car back 4' from the door, I can just barely squeeze a truck into the next space - the door is 16' wide. When I place the lift I plan to get, no trucks will fit. IMHO, the first layout is a non-starter.

A truck "fits" on paper but using tape on the floor for the lift locations, no large vehicle will clear the lift post and the door frame.

What happens if you use an asymmetric lift and rotate the car 180 degrees? That puts the lift posts closer to the bottom of the drawing and maybe the truck fits? Or locate the lift on an angle where the truck is pictured.

You may have some other options though. I don't want to hijack the OP's thread so if you start another thread......

ddawg16 · Jan 28, 2016

Move your man door over at least 24" or more. Otherwise, that becomes a dead corner.

And, you really want to avoid having a man door that close to the corner. You want about 2' of shear wall for a more stable wall. And that 24" can be used for work benches.

Chadddada · Jan 28, 2016

Joe Reed said:
What kind of cars are you going to have in there? Looking at your drawings, those cars are only about 12' long...

BMW 3 series (2/4) doors and 5 series (4 door).

teamextreme · Jan 28, 2016

I don't think you have a good idea what it takes to turn a car 90 degrees in a garage. For example, in post 24 you have the lift at the back of the garage, turned sideways, with a car shown on the lift and stating you liked that layout and could get a car in there easy. No way can that be done. You need enough turning radius to get straight, which you don't have. And you don't have room past the lift to overshoot, backup and get it straight. I would highly recommend taking some cones, chalk lines, cardboard boxes, things like that, to an empty parking lot and layout some of these spaces and try manuevering a car around in the configurations you're considering. Also, as someone else mentioned, what cars are going in here? If you're using 12 ft as a car length, you better have a fleet of Smart cars.

Bluedodge · Jan 28, 2016

Chadddada said:
...This is a 30' x24' pole barn/garage...

Joe Reed said:
What kind of cars are you going to have in there? Looking at your drawings, those cars are only about 12' long...

Chadddada said:
BMW 3 series (2/4) doors and 5 series (4 door).

A 5 series is listed as 197" long; 16' 3".

Your 24' depth is likely exterior; approx 22' 9" interior.

Your car will leave you with approx 3' 3" in front, and 3' 3" behind it.

It's going to be tighter than you think. (that's what she said)

New Garage layout - Can it be done better?

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