Bailey no 8 plane

ekegelmann · Feb 3, 2016

Ok, I was going to.post this with my Jenning brace bit case post but I will post it by itself. I got this and a few other items, a Russell Jennings case with bits original, a Ohio tool company no 3 plane and a Yankee driver for $15. Yea steal I know but sometimes you need to win. So everyone tell me what I have here. The creme da creme or something less valuable? The thing is pretty goid shape wise. The bottom has a dusting of rust which would easily come off. Extemely flat. Not used much.Any guestimates on value? Thx.

crguy · Feb 3, 2016

For a more accurate idea of current retail value look at completed listings on Ebay for Stanley #8s in similar condition.

ekegelmann · Feb 3, 2016

well seems like ones in worse shape are asking near 200.. hmmm

crguy · Feb 4, 2016

ekegelmann said:
well seems like ones in worse shape are asking near 200.. hmmm

Asking price really means nothing. Like I said - look at completed listings for the real truth. There are always a few odd highs & lows, but you can easily see an average for planes in similar condition. Pay careful attention to the "similar condition".

Bdgjr215 · Feb 4, 2016

You cant just go by stanley no. 8. You must research the type by using certain identifiers
Like the the stanley logo type ,the handle what type of frog it has ,lever cap and then condition.
The value will swing wildly based on these factors
Yours is missing a fair amount of japanning so i would doubt it would fetch 200.00

Creme de le creme would be a no 1 in mint condition
No 2's fetch pretty good money also

My Old Tools · Feb 4, 2016

That is a good user plane, pretty vanilla.

zkling · Feb 4, 2016

Have you thought about creating a thread dedicated to yourself? That way all your questions can stay in one place instead of thread after thread after thread?

crguy · Feb 4, 2016

Bdgjr215 said:
Creme de le creme would be a no 1 in mint condition
No 2's fetch pretty good money also

Stanley #1s are very popular, more so than the number of them out there justifies.
If you're going by value/scarcity, there are a number of Stanley planes worth multiple thousands.

TMcCay · Feb 4, 2016

For $15 you deserve a You ****!

The No 8 is the only size that I don't have yet in my collection and that one I would definitely tune up, buy a good replacement blade for and use. If you have a desire to sell it PM me.

derosa · Feb 4, 2016

Nice score, the 8 isn't the most common, mostly I see them actually selling for 80-120, yours looks good enough to sit in the middle. Yours is a type 9 or 10 based on the date stamps. Awesome find for the price.

ekegelmann · Feb 4, 2016

zkling said:
Have you thought about creating a thread dedicated to yourself? That way all your questions can stay in one place instead of thread after thread after thread?

not a bad idea

hsvtoolfool · Feb 4, 2016

You appear to have a Stanley Bailey No. 8 Jointer Plane (Type 9 or 10) dating
from about 1902 to 1909. Stanley made the plane but used Bailey's name for
better name recognition...

http://tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/stanley/stan-bpl/bailey-types.htm

Type 9: (1902 to 1907)
2 patent dates behind frog: MAR-25-02, AUG-19-02
‘Bailey’ at toe
straight frog rib

Type 10: (1907 to 1909)
Same as Type 9 except rib at frog seat is now arched

So you must remove the frog and examine the seat arch to narrow the exact
date range further.

As to value...it's complicated. Yours is from a desirable period when workmen
actually used planes, tuned them right, and generally took good care of them.
Yours looks about average: neither great nor bad. The rosewood handles
appear correct and are in decent shape. Handles must be tight with no slop
for best value. The blade and lever cap look usable. Can't tell more without
disassembly, checking the mouth, checking the sole for flatness, and making
some shavings.

There are so many details to evaluate. Are the all parts original to that plane?
It's common for wrong parts to be substituted and it's tough to tell all the
nuances in frog screws and depth adjustment forks. How much life is left in
the blade? Was the chip breaker buggered up by a tool butcher? Some light
surface rust is easily cleaned and doesn't detract from value. In contrast,
severe rust pitting, cracks, or weld/solder repairs drastically reduce value.
Perfect japanning increases the value a lot because it's so rare. Having the
original box is very rare. Those two together and you have a "New In Box"
plane which gets into crazy money for this period and earlier.

Only a real plane expert can answer these questions. From your photos it's at
least a $100 plane and a good, basic "user". It can easily work just as well as
any $475 Lie Nelson recreation. If all the parts are original and in good shape,
then you might indeed have a $180 plane.

As others have said, you can't use Ebay as a reference. Most Ebay sellers
bought a plane for $50 in a flea market, know nothing about planes, and are
just trying to flip it and quadruple their money. I often buy planes at flea
markets or on Craigslist for a fraction of the typical Ebay prices. Some planes
do sell for real market value on Ebay, but it's not common.

A better source for real market value are old tool dealers. Some dealers
have very high prices overall, but they're also carry only rare planes sought
by the wealthiest collectors. Or they may just be looking for suckers. In
contrast, Patrick Leach is a much better resource. His prices are very fair,
he's honest, and he keeps up with market value. Get on his mailing list
and watch his prices. He prices "user" planes and "collector" planes
accordingly, and both are in his monthly list. And he knows everything
possible regarding old Stanley planes...

http://www.supertool.com/

ctb · Feb 4, 2016

Type 9 or 10, 1902 - 1907.
Wouldn't mind one of those myself.
You ****!!!

3baygarage · Feb 4, 2016

zkling said:
Have you thought about creating a thread dedicated to yourself? That way all your questions can stay in one place instead of thread after thread after thread?

ekegelmann said:
not a bad idea

I'm enjoying all the old tools and odd things you find. Keeps this site from becoming too mundane in the tool dept. Just my opinion. :dunno:

crguy · Feb 4, 2016

hsvtoolfool said:
As others have said, you can't use Ebay as a reference. Most Ebay sellers
bought a plane for $50 in a flea market, know nothing about planes, and are
just trying to flip it and quadruple their money. I often buy planes at flea
markets or on Craigslist for a fraction of the typical Ebay prices. Some planes
do sell for real market value on Ebay, but it's not common.

Ebay completed listings are the closest thing available to real current market values - not some overpriced dealer.

ekegelmann · Feb 4, 2016

3baygarage said:
I'm enjoying all the old tools and odd things you find. Keeps this site from becoming too mundane in the tool dept. Just my opinion.

thanks, Yeah sometimes I need to ask questions. I dont know everything and learning is good no?

ganymede · Feb 4, 2016

crguy said:
BS - you're absolutely wrong about that. Ebay completed listings are the closest thing available to real current market values - not some overpriced dealer.

Op was referring to eBay asking price not completed listing .

Bdgjr215 · Feb 4, 2016

crguy said:
Stanley #1s are very popular, more so than the number of them out there justifies.
If you're going by value/scarcity, there are a number of Stanley planes worth multiple thousands.

I was talking about your basic hand planes stanley 1-8
I know there are specialty planes that feth more than these i was just keeping
It basic for the sake of the argument

hsvtoolfool · Feb 5, 2016

crguy said:
Ebay completed listings are the closest thing available to real current market values - not some overpriced dealer.

You're almost correct: Ebay represent the current market value...

...for clueless tool collectors who overpay. Your mistake is to
assume that "overpriced dealers" charge more than Ebay flippers.
The reverse is more accurate.

An Ebay flipper has a common-as-dirt Stanley with incorrect
parts, doesn't know what "Type 6" means, what a lever cap is
(much less does), or if the parts are correct. But he knows old
Stanley planes with an 8 sell for $200 so he expects to get $200.
And there's always a gullible user or collector who buys it and
gets ripped off.

Yes, there are some tool dealers who ask too much for their
goods. I won't name them, but I also scoff at their snooty web
sites and ridiculous prices.

But the tool dealer I mentioned earlier is not one of them.
Patrick is honorable and knows his stuff. There are plenty
more like him, but you meet them in person at tool shows
rather than on Ebay. If I buy a minty 1930s Bedrock 608
from one of these guys at $400, I am 100% confident I won't
find another one for less in that condition. True, you're not
getting a "steal" or a "bargain", but you are also not being
cheated by some buffoon who bead blasted and repainted
the plane before using Photoshopping the photos in his
Ebay listing.

Like the OP, the way to find bargains is to hit the flea markets,
garage sales, and Craigslist habitually. I once snagged a rare
Stanley #72 chamfer plane for $100 from a flea market booth
full of old golf clubs. I've got several user-grade Bedrock #3
and #4 smoothers I found for $50 each. They're ugly, but they
work great. And with a little Rustoleum and Photoshop, I could
sell each of them on Ebay for $200.

crguy · Feb 5, 2016

hsvtoolfool said:
But the tool dealer I mentioned earlier is not one of them.
Patrick is honorable and knows his stuff. There are plenty
more like him, but you meet them in person at tool shows
rather than on Ebay. If I buy a minty 1930s Bedrock 608
from one of these guys at $400, I am 100% confident I won't
find another one for less in that condition. True, you're not
getting a "steal" or a "bargain", but you are also not being
cheated by some buffoon who bead blasted and repainted
the plane before using Photoshopping the photos in his
Ebay listing.

Sounds kind of like you're shilling for Leach here - what did you say your name was?
Other people have their own opinions.

hsvtoolfool · Feb 6, 2016

crguy said:
Sounds kind of like you're shilling for Leach here

Not Leach specifically, but honest tool dealers who know their stuff. I hope
that point was clear from my previous post. Have you bought from Patrick?
Would you agree he meets my criteria?

Here's another example of an honorable tool dealer who knows his stuff,
despite that he now uses Ebay...

NHPlaneParts

Eric's prices are fair, but again there are no "steals" to be found. And
although he uses Ebay, he's been in the business a long time and is
well known in the hobby. His prices are similar to other tools dealers.

crguy said:
...what did you say your name was?

Ha! Not Patrick. In Huntsville a.k.a. Rocket City, Alabama.

crguy said:
Other people have their own opinions.

Of course, that's a given. My opinion is based on experience, backed by
reason and facts. I present it to be helpful, not hurt anyone's feelings.
I've been burned on Ebay buying planes, trains, and automobiles. Not
once have I been burned by an honest tool dealer who is also a hobbyist.

I've been collecting for over 25 years, even before there was an Ebay.
The "collectibles" hold less interest to me than "users". Even the few infill
planes I own are beat to heck but still work great. I bought the vast
majority of my tools as decent users at local flea markets, with a few
tool dealers like Patrick thrown in there for more exotic but useful tools
that seldom appear in the deep south (not counting Florida). But the
most fun I've had (besides using these tools) is spotting a valuable
plane one a shelf behind a Victrola in a flea market booth.

Bdgjr215 · Feb 6, 2016

Im not a plane collector per say ,i own a few and know just enough to be dangerous
Ive never bought one from ebay or a dealer but i know patrick leach's site has been around a long time and his planes listed seem fair priced and well described.
I dont think he would be in existence still if that were not the case.just my two cents

crguy · Feb 6, 2016

hsvtoolfool said:
Originally Posted by crguy
Other people have their own opinions.

Of course, that's a given. My opinion is based on experience, backed by
reason and facts. I present it to be helpful, not hurt anyone's feelings.
I've been burned on Ebay buying planes, trains, and automobiles. Not
once have I been burned by an honest tool dealer who is also a hobbyist.

I've been collecting for over 25 years, even before there was an Ebay.
The "collectibles" hold less interest to me than "users". Even the few infill
planes I own are beat to heck but still work great. I bought the vast
majority of my tools as decent users at local flea markets, with a few
tool dealers like Patrick thrown in there for more exotic but useful tools
that seldom appear in the deep south (not counting Florida). But the
most fun I've had (besides using these tools) is spotting a valuable
plane one a shelf behind a Victrola in a flea market booth.

My opinions are based on facts.

I've collected high end tools for 30 years, and have known and dealt with just about every tool dealer out there. I don't waste much time looking for good tools at flea markets.

ekegelmann · Feb 6, 2016

So, whats mine really worth after all this back and forth, is there anything i can do or take better pics to show you guys more to get an accurate resale value?

crguy · Feb 6, 2016

ekegelmann said:
So, whats mine really worth after all this back and forth, is there anything i can do or take better pics to show you guys more to get an accurate resale value?

I already told you how to find the value in post #2. Use that as a learning experience.

ekegelmann · Feb 6, 2016

crguy said:
I already told you how to find the value in post #2. Use that as a learning experience.

fair enough... id take some of those prices.

ganymede · Feb 6, 2016

crguy said:
My opinions are based on facts.

I've collected high end tools for 30 years, and have known and dealt with just about every tool dealer out there. I don't waste much time looking for good tools at flea markets.

Wow, your flea markets must ****. I get most of my 'high end' tools from flea markets.

Jim C. · Feb 6, 2016

ekegelmann said:
So, whats mine really worth after all this back and forth, is there anything i can do or take better pics to show you guys more to get an accurate resale value?

I'd say about $50 - $75. Maybe $100 tops. You've got a nice "user" there, but still, rarity and CONDITION are everything. It's a good solid tool. Great find for $15.

Jim C.

hsvtoolfool · Feb 6, 2016

Jim C. said:
I'd say about $50 - $75. Maybe $100 tops. You've got a nice "user" there, but still, rarity and CONDITION are everything. It's a good solid tool. Great find for $15.

Ditto. It's all in the condition. However, I'd say the low end
would be $75 and the high end would be $180. A common
No. 4 or 5, I'd agree on the $50 to $75 range. But jointers
bring a bit more money, especially older ones in good shape.

Bottom line, you got a steal which doesn't happen often.

Disassemble the plane. Look at the frog support. Determine
if it's a Type 9 or 10. From there, determine if the knob,
rear tote, blade, lever cap, chip breaker, frog, adjuster knob,
fork, and frog screws are original. They all need to be in good
shape. No cracks or chips in the rosewood. Check the bottom
for flatness. Check that the mouth hasn't been filed or
chipped. All those are big factors.

These planes were mass produced, so parts are interchangeable.
With lots of patience and luck, you can get the correct parts
from the link I provided before (if necessary).

Planes can be carefully cleaned and oiled to get rid of that
light surface rust. Normal maintenance won't hurt value so
long as you don't go crazy and remove patina. Don't sand
or refinish the wood! Don't remove and repaint the japanning.

Sharpen the blade, reassembly it, tune it up, and make
some shaving. You'll become and addict too.

Jim C. · Feb 10, 2016

hsvtoolfool said:
Ditto. It's all in the condition. However, I'd say the low end
would be $75 and the high end would be $180. A common
No. 4 or 5, I'd agree on the $50 to $75 range. But jointers
bring a bit more money, especially older ones in good shape....

Maybe....I was watching a Stanley #8C, type 8/type 9 on Ebay that just sold for $118. I think that was a fair price for that particular plane in that particular condition. Comparing the photos posted in the Ebay auction to those pertaining to the plane in this thread, I'd have to say the plane in the Ebay auction was in better condition. The Ebay plane also had a corrugated sole, which may add another 10% to 15% to its value. Like I said earlier, CONDITION is everything. While the OP got a smoking deal for $15, I just don't see his particular plane selling for more than $100 at the top end. And to be honest, valuing it at $100 would be ambitious. In its present state, I still think my original estimate is fair and accurate.

I tend to think people sometimes get caught up in the age of an old tool, and automatically believe that if the tool is old and in pretty good condition (which the characterizes the OP's plane), it's really valuable. Not necessarily. Then the rarity of the tool must also be considered. A tool's scarcity may trump its lesser condition in some instances causing it to still command a high price tag. Unfortunately, the OP's plane isn't rare or scarce. Early on in my "tool buying education" I bought a few nice "user" quality planes for "collector" quality prices. When I finally discovered what a true collector quality plane was, I looked at my collection and realized I had very nice set of quality user grade planes. When a buyer over estimates a tool's condition and then overpays for it, he/she may find it hard to get his/her money out of the tool when he/she tries to sell it. Like I said, I have a few like that. Live and learn.

The point I'm trying to make is that once a relatively common tool is no longer in gem mint condition, its value drops dramatically. That's really true of any collectible item. I love an old tool with some patina, honest wear, and a few imperfections brought about from decades of use. I'm just not willing to pay a top shelf price for a tool that doesn't meet top shelf criteria. In the end, the market is whatever someone is willing to pay.

Jim C.

ctb · Feb 10, 2016

I think the one thing we all agree on seems to be the $100.00 figure. Personally, from watching ebay over the past six months, the vast majority of user #8's that come up all command prices around and over $100.00. Clean the rust off the sole and sides, wash the japanning and oil it lightly, and I wouldn't be surprised if you got closer to $150. They're not rare, but they certainly show up on ebay less than the other size planes.
Or, you could hang on to it until Paul Sellers does a surprise blog on how he actually finds a use for a #8, in which case the price will shoot up to $300.00 overnight!

hsvtoolfool · Feb 10, 2016

I agree Jim. The price range I told Ekegelmann wasn't based on his
plane's condition; just a min and a max. I was trying to encourage
him to do the work. I can't tell much from a photo except that it's
either new-in-box or a junker that should be parted out. There are
too many issues involved.

ekegelmann · Feb 10, 2016

Thanks everyone. Trust me I'm learning a lot.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

Bailey no 8 plane

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