R-Savage New Home Machine Shop

R-Savage · Feb 6, 2016

Well... Here is the start of the new Home Machine Shop. I cleaned it out a couple of weeks ago and will need to get some more cleaning done. Basically This is Step 1 Cleanup.

Here are some pics to my Garage Journal. This is for renovating this space into a Home Machine Shop. As you can see. first step... New Concrete will be needed.

turbowoodworker · Feb 6, 2016

Looks like you have some work ahead of you.
Got a pic of the Rick Mears box?

James-W · Feb 6, 2016

The floor is not very good and I doubt it can be saved without an awful lot of work. I agree with you, new concrete would be quicker and easier and no doubt the best route to go.

With all the black areas on the insulation it looks like there may have been a fire in there at one time. Was there a fire and if so, how bad was it? Did it do any other damage besides to the insulation?

Richard Cranium · Feb 6, 2016

good so far, so what is step 2 and 3?

R-Savage · Feb 6, 2016

James-W said:
The floor is not very good and I doubt it can be saved without an awful lot of work. I agree with you, new concrete would be quicker and easier and no doubt the best route to go.

With all the black areas on the insulation it looks like there may have been a fire in there at one time. Was there a fire and if so, how bad was it? Did it do any other damage besides to the insulation?

Not a fire. the garage was built in about 1975. see that little wood stove? possibly also carbon monoxide from two vehicles from all those years. never a fire in the garage from what I understand.

R-Savage · Feb 6, 2016

Richard Cranium said:
good so far, so what is step 2 and 3?

Step 1: New Concrete for heavy weight for about 9000 lbs of lathe and tools and another 7000 lbs of misc and a vehicle. 1 " rebar reinforcement?

Step two : Gas Nib for a Furnace:

Step Three: Electrical Need 3 220 1ph outlets and one for the furnace, new Breaker box.

Step four: Insulation and drywall.

Step five: the equipment

Step six: a workbench toolbin organizers, chemical cabinet

Step seven: Safety stuff.

(Notice the safety stuff is at the end. coincidence???)

:shocking:

R-Savage · Feb 6, 2016

turbowoodworker said:
Looks like you have some work ahead of you.
Got a pic of the Rick Mears box?

Gonna clean up the outside of it today. I will take a good pic of it for you and post. :thumbup:

James-W · Feb 6, 2016

What do you have available for electrical power right now in the garage? If you need to run a larger line from the house to the garage you may want to make that one of your first projects. I am not saying you should hook it all up now, I am just saying it may be easier to run new cable before you do a lot of the other stuff.

ADCS · Feb 6, 2016

James-W said:
With all the black areas on the insulation it looks like there may have been a fire in there at one time. Was there a fire and if so, how bad was it? Did it do any other damage besides to the insulation?

That would be dirt. The insulation acts as an air filter for the air that travels through it. Seeing as there is no vapor barrier in the pics there is obviously quite a bit of air passing through those walls. Probably both ways.

R-Savage · Feb 6, 2016

James-W said:
What do you have available for electrical power right now in the garage? If you need to run a larger line from the house to the garage you may want to make that one of your first projects. I am not saying you should hook it all up now, I am just saying it may be easier to run new cable before you do a lot of the other stuff.

Right now I just have 2 15 amp 110 breakers. That's it. No more can go on the box. The power is a buried line from the house.

For the floor there is a bit of foundation work that needs to be done. As it sits floor is pooched, no sense for lathes atm. I have no heat in the garage, not enough power, and no gas line. My reasoning floor first, electrical, gas second, furnace third, insulation, vapour barrier, drywall third, lathes and equipment last.

Well that's the plan anyway. I gotta start from the ground up.

R-Savage · Feb 6, 2016

ADCS said:
That would be dirt. The insulation acts as an air filter for the air that travels through it. Seeing as there is no vapor barrier in the pics there is obviously quite a bit of air passing through those walls. Probably both ways.

Sounds about right Adam. It is a bit drafty and dust and dirt seem to collect on the pad and driveway.

matt_i · Feb 6, 2016

I would start on the electrical and gas first. Electrical could be a buried conduit with a sweep that runs vertically up the outside wall to an LB that penetrates thru the wall. But, maybe it should be in a buried sweep that comes up inside the stud wall...

Not sure how you do a gas line as I've never attempted that. However if its a yellow coated flex pipe that comes up thru a PVC sleeved sweep, that may have to be set in concrete first. Also size the gas line, a friend of mine trenched in a new gas flex line and buried it only to find that he went a size too small for the length of run. So he had to dig it out and start over.

In any case, I'd at least plan the exacting details of your utilities first.

Next, I'd set, tape, finish, and paint drywall, before thinking of any machines, to include the heating machine. Once you reach that stage (painted drywall + concrete floor) you will be easily downhill into setting up shop.

R-Savage · Feb 6, 2016

matt_i said:
I would start on the electrical and gas first. Electrical could be a buried conduit with a sweep that runs vertically up the outside wall to an LB that penetrates thru the wall. But, maybe it should be in a buried sweep that comes up inside the stud wall...

Not sure how you do a gas line as I've never attempted that. However if its a yellow coated flex pipe that comes up thru a PVC sleeved sweep, that may have to be set in concrete first. Also size the gas line, a friend of mine trenched in a new gas flex line and buried it only to find that he went a size too small for the length of run. So he had to dig it out and start over.

In any case, I'd at least plan the exacting details of your utilities first.

Next, I'd set, tape, finish, and paint drywall, before thinking of any machines, to include the heating machine. Once you reach that stage (painted drywall + concrete floor) you will be easily downhill into setting up shop.

Thanks Matt

I see where your going with that. It makes sense.

bczygan · Feb 6, 2016

First thing I would look at is foundation and slab and surrounding outside drainage.

Second would be roof and structure framing.

Third would be roof and wall sheathing and siding for integrity from water and wind.

Fourth would be roofing materials and attic venting.

Fifth would be insulation values and vapor barrier.

Sixth would be weatherstripping and sealing.

Seventh would be electrical supply, power and lighting and other utilities.

Eighth would be heating.

Ninth would be security.

May have missed some things. Just off the top of my head. Basically look over the entire existing structure and bring it up to standards and finish into a habitable space.

Bill

bczygan · Feb 6, 2016

Do you have a shed you can put all the rest of that stuff in, and completely clear out the space?
First step is to investigate what kind of foundation you have. Dig down along side of it to see if you have a foundation wall or just a thickened slab, and if your slab sits under the wood framed walls. If the wood framed walls sit on the slab, you will have to raise the structure to replace the slab. This is also an opportunity to create a masonry stem wall to aid in drainage and increase your headroom.

Bill

R-Savage · Feb 6, 2016

That's good info. Thanks bill. I got more things to think about.

Model A Fan · Feb 6, 2016

Looking forward to the build/repairs! How do you redo the concrete in the garage?

R-Savage · Feb 6, 2016

Gonna hire someone to do it and I want it done right.

boomer12831 · Feb 6, 2016

Our goal is not really to help you but to get you to spend all of your money like the rest of us have on garages and tools. You don't have to do the electrical first but it's important to get the conduits in place before you pour concrete. Also don't forget extra conduit for a catv and telephone line. Ed

R-Savage · Feb 6, 2016

Lol thanks Ed. I'll keep that in mind.

R-Savage · Feb 6, 2016

turbowoodworker said:
Looks like you have some work ahead of you.
Got a pic of the Rick Mears box?

You can check out my tool box organization thread.

R-Savage · Mar 28, 2016

Time to start Resurrecting this thread. The Shop is Pretty much all cleaned up. While perusing the GJ forums on the weekend. I found the "Air Compressor Thread". I've always wanted a good air compressor system. However Power, and capacity is an Issue. I think I have come up with a way to get the Pneumatics that I need/want for my shop. I'm going to be playing around with some copper over the next few weekends. the weather in Alberta is pretty fantastic. So I should get some good time in. Would it be great if you could spend under 2 grand building a system that runs like a system at 30 Grand? As they Say....... "Challenge Accepted!" Here we go.

fireeqpsrv · Mar 28, 2016

Awesome to hear you are still going! be sure to post the progress.

zmotorsports · Mar 28, 2016

Subscribed. Anxious to see what your Home Machine Shop is going to look like.

Mike.

R-Savage · Mar 28, 2016

No Pressure here. (I know Bad Joke).

ymurf · Mar 28, 2016

I have worked in a machine shop for 28 years. Don't want to see one at home..LOL

TheBadDog · Mar 29, 2016

ymurf said:
I have worked in a machine shop for 28 years. Don't want to see one at home..LOL

Without a doubt, which is why I have one. I spend 10+ hours a day in a virtual/computer world making my living. But real or virtual, I love to make stuff, so I've got a pretty decent fabrication and machine shop (working on adding black smithy) to fool around in when I have time. And of course, all my machinist friends first response is, "Oh, you work with computers, you would LOVE CNC!". They think because the computer part is a lot of work for them, it would be so much easier (and so more fun?) for someone who already knows their way all through them. But the last F'n thing I want in my shop are more computers to run to run my machines! So my shop is all manual, not so much as a tablet to be found, though I do have a basic calculator and sometimes forget to leave my cell phone in the house...

Congrats on the shop, and the good luck on the air system. I was collecting parts to build a staged system. Single stage 60 gallon with 5HP to handle the basic blow-off and air up duties. And a second 5HP kicking in at a lower pressure to help keep up with the big blast cabinet. Then I stumbled on a really nice Curtis 80 gal for cheap, and marked an item off my to-do list. Looking forward to seeing what you do.

TheBadDog · Mar 29, 2016

Oh, and regarding the tool boxes, I gave up on the fancy mechanic boxes. Never could find anything for less than ridiculous prices. Then I (re)discovered the Lista/Vidmar/etc cabinets, after that Snapon and the like never crossed my mind again. I can pick those up cheaper, with more capacity, and with a simple framework with HD commercial casters and I have all the boxes I need at less than 1/4 the cost per capacity. Highly recommended to supplement your other nice boxes. You seem to have better luck finding deals on them than I did. But I do have a HF box for a roller containing mechanic tools for taking outside and working on vehicles that won't fit inside.

R-Savage · Mar 29, 2016

Bad Dog. I totally hear you on the computer thing. I was a computer tech for about 10 years. I don't want to see a computer again, and especially in my garage. My lathe will be a manual with a DRO. I got out of the computer business and started working with Steel. I started with Scrap metal yards, to a Fab Shop making Clamps, then to turning Casing and tubing on CNC, I loved it. Still I have a lot to learn for Metal Fabrication and Turning. To add. I also want to add a few more tools to my Garage such as an Engine Stand, Etc for Building / Rebuilding engines. I know I don't need many more tools for that aspect, but Oxy Acetylene , Mapp Gas, Little Stick, mig, tig Welder, Band Saw Will be in the works. The Lawn mower and Snowblower and such will be in a Shed outside of the Garage so these Gases can be in my DG Area. The Garage is going to be rewired the same time as it is insulated and drywalled.

R-Savage · Mar 29, 2016

Also the obvious a Parts Washer, and various Pneumatic Buffers Grinders, Polishers, Possibly a Pneumatic Bench Grinder? (Does it Exist???) since I want the Main of my Shop to be Pneumatic. I haven't bothered to look that up yet.

matt_i · Mar 29, 2016

Pneumatic grinder is theoretically possible. But anything run by air is inherently wasteful due to the compression losses. If you don't believe me, try a large handheld air tool like a body-sander. A 5hp motor on a compressor can barely keep up with the air demands for the tool, whereas a 1hp electric motor would be more than an equivalent.

The other downside of pneumatic tools is that being a mechanical turbine (or piston, etc) need lubrication unless super expensive and designed with materials needing minimal lube. You have to have lubricators, you have to deal with the oil mist that's exhausted, its a pain.

My .02 is use electric wherever possible and safe. More efficient, more reliable, less mess.

R-Savage · Mar 29, 2016

More to think about Matt. Thanks. I value your .02. those .02 are quite valuable to me. :beer:

R-Savage · Mar 29, 2016

I guess I should post some finished cleanup pics. Ill do that this weekend.

R-Savage · Mar 29, 2016

I have been doing some sketching on "The Brains" of my Air Distribution system. Once I have that. I'm going to see about making that a modular reality.

MushCreek · Mar 29, 2016

Subscribed. I'm on the same path right now. My barn is almost new, so I have less work, but I still need to insulate and do wiring. So far, I have a lathe, surface grinder, and MIG welder. I'm looking all the time to find a mill that I can afford. I hope to drop my main power line in late May, as right now, I just have a 120V extension cord. I have all of the materials; just need to rent a trencher to lay it in.

Funny; I've worked in machine shops for over 40 years, and I still love having one at home! The last place I worked allowed me free access to all of the equipment off-hours to make whatever I wanted, but not all employers are so accommodating.

R-Savage · Mar 29, 2016

Well A thought Came to me in my electrical problem. I decided to check what kind of cable was going into the garage. It is Copper 12/3

only good for 20 amps. Just more problems. This Garage Project is pretty much going to be from scratch. hopefully I don't need a wrecking ball and start from the very beginning.

bimmer1980 · Mar 29, 2016

Where is the 12 gauge wire feeding the garage from?

If it is from the house, you will probably be best off digging a trench, laying conduit and pulling the appropriate wires..... (yes, there are other ways.... but I like conduit underground....)

I used a couple of 2" PVC conduits for my electrical feed from the house. The hardest part was getting the digging done and then getting a conduit under a small driveway with out cutting and digging the driveway..

Once the conduit is in, it is not that hard to pull in some decent sized conductors for power. The conduit is cheap.... Wire, maybe not so much, but you gotta have it.....

R-Savage · Mar 29, 2016

Yep I know brad. I know I would love a 4 to 6 gauge going to the garage and then have a decent 60 amp service. Either that or overkill with a 2/0 wire

TheBadDog · Mar 29, 2016

I've got a dedicated 250A service to my current shop. It doesn't even flinch when the Sync 351 lights up. I love having plenty of power available. My last shop ran on an 80A sub-panel fed from the main house 200A service. I got by, pushed the limits a bit, but got by on limited duty cycle. Main point is, based on your posts, my advice would be don't cut corners getting power in that shop. Do what you have to do to get at least 100A out there, preferably more. My welder alone takes that much, and I can still crank up the 7.5HP lathe with a big 15" chuck and heavy slug of material without dimming the lights or popping breakers.

R-Savage · Mar 30, 2016

Well the house has a 100A Service. I'm trying to dig in and see if a 200A Service is a feasible option. Then have 100A for the house, then feed to a sub panel in the Garage for the additional 100A. Now to Convince Wifey!

R-Savage New Home Machine Shop

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