wow - you have to see it to believe it!

Fuzzydog · Mar 3, 2006

I saw an ad in a woodworking magazine for a 'sawstop' table saw. The concept sounds pretty good - there is an electrical current going through the saw blade (very small current) and when it contacts human skin the current changes and it triggers a mechanism which stops the blade and drops it out of the way.

check out the hotdog test video on sawstop.com - this is probably one of the greatest safety devices to come around in years.

not affiliated or a distributor or anything - just impressed

midknightryder · Mar 3, 2006

I was so impressed I watched 4 times! Just unbeleaveable!
MKR

REFLEXX · Mar 3, 2006

I've seen it on TV and saw the site. Unfortunately about two years too late....

My mom (whom we affectionately call "Mama Stewart") was working on shelves for her kitchen a few years ago. She then proceeded to cut off 2 1/2 fingers on a regular tablesaw. Two completely off one was just hanging by skin! Not good for a woman who is a hairdresser and has projects going on 24/7. I inherited much of that (not the hairdressing, the projects addiction).

Twelve hours of surgery and they were able to reattach the fingers and have them functional!!! A fter months of recovery she was able to use them with about 60% of the bending/grasping that we all have. Still not much feeling in those fingers.

That was a tough time to go through. The doctors were just amazing and she was lucky that my step-father was able to get her and her fingers to the hospital very fast.

The lesson here is no matter how careful you are (and she is very careful) you can get "bit"

If I ever buy a saw like that, it will certaily be that one. I need my fingers. No other tool can do that much damage that fast. My metalcutting vertical bandsaw might get 1/2 of one finger, a grinder might take a chunk, but a tablesaw is pure evil.

cudacharlie · Mar 3, 2006

Wow. That's all I have to say. Amazing invention! I hope they make a mint....

eschoendorff · Mar 3, 2006

midknightryder said:
I was so impressed I watched 4 times! Just unbeleaveable!
MKR

Me too. holy Sh**!!!!!! If I ued a table saw with any frequency, I'd be all over this!

rockwithjason · Mar 3, 2006

wow! beavis and butthead couldn't screw that one up.

bmwpower · Mar 3, 2006

A hot dog? If it really works, they should try it with a human finger instead.

z28toz06 · Mar 3, 2006

They are having a hard time selling the idea to other table saw manufacturers. They think the added cost will be a detractor from people buying the saws with this built in. I think it will take a while, but it will catch on. With that said if you dont put your fingers near the blade it cant cut you. Table saws are a s safe as the people using them. Use a push block and dont do anything dangerous.

eschoendorff · Mar 3, 2006

z28toz06 said:
With that said if you dont put your fingers near the blade it cant cut you. Table saws are a s safe as the people using them. Use a push block and dont do anything dangerous.

And yet this still escapes people! That being said, I've done my share of dumb things - but tend to do more of them when I'm in a hurry. This new safety feature could pay for itself if it's only needed once. How much does a new hand cost?

Luckydevil · Mar 4, 2006

bmwpower said:
A hot dog? If it really works, they should try it with a human finger instead.

I think I remember reading somewhere the guy who made it actually did use his finger once. Now that takes some balls. :shocking:

iiibdsiil · Mar 4, 2006

Luckydevil said:
I think I remember reading somewhere the guy who made it actually did use his finger once. Now that takes some balls.

Ya, once, now they use a hotdog. Doesn't show much faith to me in their product.

REFLEXX · Mar 4, 2006

My mom's hospital bill was over $60,000 and five months of not being able to use her hand.

How much was that saw?

Thumper · Mar 4, 2006

I sure as hell ain't gonna test it with my finger!

ranger_dood · Mar 4, 2006

iiibdsiil said:
Ya, once, now they use a hotdog. Doesn't show much faith to me in their product.

You do notice that it does take a little bite out of the hotdog? Sure, it's better than losing your whole finger, but would you want to do that for marketing purposes? You'd end up with a lot of bites out of your fingers!

ranger_dood · Mar 4, 2006

BTW- the saw only costs $2800

iiibdsiil · Mar 4, 2006

ranger_dood said:
You do notice that it does take a little bite out of the hotdog? Sure, it's better than losing your whole finger, but would you want to do that for marketing purposes? You'd end up with a lot of bites out of your fingers!

They could have done it ONCE for their video though.

ringer · Mar 4, 2006

iiibdsiil said:
They could have done it ONCE for their video though.

Their lawyers would have been all over that. In this day and age of blood and body fluid bourne pathogens in combination with our litigation society, no company in its right mind is going to flagrantly show that blade touching a REAL finger with REAL blood, no matter how small the quantity. Also, if they had used a real finger, every drunk red-neck that uses one of the saws is going to try it every chance he gets and IF one day his saw fails, the guy would use the video as a basis for the case, no matter if the saw worked perfectly 100x before.

slowride66 · Mar 4, 2006

VERY IMPRESSIVE!!!!

SR66

D-Cal · Aug 14, 2006

More on this:
http://www.designnews.com/CA6360672.html

Pitched battle apparently.

sjsfire · Aug 14, 2006

Also, if they had used a real finger, every drunk red-neck that uses one of the saws is going to try it every chance he gets and IF one day his saw fails, the guy would use the video as a basis for the case, no matter if the saw worked perfectly 100x before.[/QUOTE]

You know what they say.......... Whats the last thing a drunk redneck says before he's hauled off to the hospital...."HEY Y"ALL WATCH THIS"... :headscrat

the intimidator · Aug 14, 2006

Nope it's HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS

I have used that line before both time's it didn't turn out too well :bounce:

OldOneEye · Aug 15, 2006

It seems that some lawyer has picked this up and is using it as an example of a safety feature that was made available to the table saw industry that they wouldn't use (so that people who have been hurt after the the product was offered could sue).

Great technology, a damn shame that nothing is going on with it right now. Read more than one article about it in print magazines a few years ago and was shocked that it still isn't available.

Juan

MillerSpeed · Aug 15, 2006

Every High School shop class in the country needs to have one of these. maybe 2. How long before the stopping mechanisim is developed on other woodworking equipment...

Blacknwhitepit · Aug 18, 2006

D-Cal said:
More on this:
http://www.designnews.com/CA6360672.html

Pitched battle apparently.

Nice article.

Funny thing, When automobile airbags were first being developed "The industry" didn't want anything to do with them. It wasn't until the government stepped in and required them to be on all new cars that we had change.

The auto manufacturers fought against them and eventually had to grudgingly accept them. Now think about it, if the laws were reversed and the government did not require them, how many people would now buy a new car without them?

The government is not always evil or wrong.

Just my 2 cents.

-BWP

wantedabiggergarage · Aug 19, 2006

z28toz06 said:
They are having a hard time selling the idea to other table saw manufacturers. They think the added cost will be a detractor from people buying the saws with this built in. I think it will take a while, but it will catch on. With that said if you dont put your fingers near the blade it cant cut you. Table saws are a s safe as the people using them. Use a push block and dont do anything dangerous.

Designed by a Lawyer, with a Doctorate in physics in his spare time. (once read patent attorney) He pitched it to the manufacturers, and one in particular was talking to him. Then someone mentioned in an industry association thing that if they did this, it could lead to liabillity issues like "why is this only on xzy model, why did it take so long to do this when it is technology from xyz?". So he had his design incorporated in a saw that he has manufactured. He also pushed for legislation to make this mandatory (remember he holds the patents) and has recently made big headway in that, and also now there are several suits like the ones mentioned. This is a hot button topic on any woodworking forum, and one of the most bantered arguments, is "why don't they do something about the most common tablesaw accident, put a riving knife to help prevent kickback".

Just the gist

Blacknwhitepit · Aug 19, 2006

OldOneEye said:
It seems that some lawyer has picked this up and is using it as an example of a safety feature that was made available to the table saw industry that they wouldn't use (so that people who have been hurt after the the product was offered could sue).

Great technology, a damn shame that nothing is going on with it right now. Read more than one article about it in print magazines a few years ago and was shocked that it still isn't available.

Juan

Some Lawyer.

Ask the guy who had his mothers fingers cut off.

It gets past the point of litigation when you are the one who loses the fingers. A friend of mine lost 3 fingers in Iraq because he held on to a flash bang too long. He is still not the same person he was 3 years ago.

To all of wit, we all say "what a Dumba$$" but if you are constantly making cuts, something eventually will happen. Do people go out and think "today I am going to get into a car accident!" That is why we wear seat belts, if not required by law, I choose to wear them because of simple Darwinist theory.

Go and tell an apple tree "no apples will fall before harvest time!". This is nature and accidents are part of human nature.

Just because this guy wants to make a few bucks off of his endeavor does not make him evil.

People somehow believe that inventors must be some kind of benevolent, half insane person with a vow of poverty only seeking to make things better for the benefit of mankind.

Read your books boys, THOMAS EDISON was not simply trying to bring light to America. He vehemently fought against AC electric power. His DC power was SAFER!!! Nikola Tesla and him fought a pitched battle. "not invented here" and "mine is bigger than yours" won't work with me.

OldOneEye · Aug 19, 2006

I'm not sure why you replied to me. The inventor created it for the same reason many people do, I think he had a friend/relative who got hurt in a very similar way that the posters mother did and he wanted to prevent it from happening aga

I think its sad that in this country, a great invention got left on the shelf for a long time until lawyers get involved. I have taken woodshop as well as worked at a plastic shop as a plastic fabricator's assistant (as well as being invovled in car audio in various ways for 18 years, which is pretty much all woodwork). I totally see a need for this product, but I think its rediculous that big companies aren't buying because they fear lawyers (that the product will create the expectation that they can make a "nerf" table saw where nobody will ever get hurt) and now they are pushing to sell the product based on the same rationale (that manufacturers had safety features they could have used to prevent injury or death).

I hope this product becomes required like a GFCI circuit.

Juan

Blacknwhitepit said:
Some Lawyer.

Ask the guy who had his mothers fingers cut off.

It gets past the point of litigation when you are the one who loses the fingers. A teammate of mine lost 3 fingers when we were in Iraq because he held on to a flash bang too long. He is still not the same person he was 3 years ago.

To all of wit, we all say "what a Dumba$$" but if you are constantly making cuts, something eventually will happen. Do people go out and think "today I am going to get into a car accident!" That is why we wear seat belts, if not required by law, I choose to wear them because of simple Darwinist theory.

Go and tell an apple tree "no apples will fall before harvest time!". This is nature and accidents are part of human nature.

Just because this guy wants to make a few bucks off of his endeavor does not make him evil.

People somehow believe that inventors must be some kind of benevolent, half insane person with a vow of poverty only seeking to make things better for the benefit of mankind.
Read your books boys, THOMAS EDISON was not simply trying to bring light to America. He vehemently fought against AC electric power. His DC power was SAFER!!! Nikola Tesla and him fought a pitched battle. "not invented here" and "mine is bigger than yours" won't work with me.

BWP reminding you to think when you post

Tyson · Aug 19, 2006

MillerSpeed said:
Every High School shop class in the country needs to have one of these. maybe 2. How long before the stopping mechanisim is developed on other woodworking equipment...

I don't know about that being a good idea....I'm 25 and I can say that kids are dumb these days.

When I was in shop class back on HS there were a lot of dull normals who did some pretty stupid things, One kid almost got impaled from a kickback on a board that he SET onto a spinning saw blade. Another kid almost got impaled because one kid cutting a board thought it would be funny to let it go and see what happened.

I think if this type of saftey were put in place a lot of kids would **** around with the equipment a lot more. And if you teach the kids that they don't have to be safe around it, what's going to happen when they use an "old" saw without safteys?

I strictly remember the words of my shop class teacher. "If any of you **** up even for a second, while you are working on one of these machines....You'll be lucky if you only lose a finger or a hand....These machines don't know the difference between a board and your bone...and wood is 10x stronger than bone"

What's a shop teacher supposed to tell them? "Yeah go ahead and don't pay attention....that's what the saftey is for!"

OldOneEye · Aug 19, 2006

Man, I would agree with you. But I think the stupid kid can get hurt in 100 different ways in a wood shop through sheer stupidity. I suspect the stupid ones will take care of themselves or unfortunately other poeple most likely somewhere else. There are veterans who take safety very seriously who still get hurt because of a very minor slip up (not like losing an eye because of not wearing glasses type of injuries either).

I can't think of very many other power tools where a shop owner would tell his employees not to work alone in case of any kind of accident. No problems working with a bandsaw, router, or planer. At the shop I worked at they frowned upon cutting bigger, harder to handle items because the fear was that it would get away from you and you could bleed out if you had a big accident with nobody around to help you.

I also think that power tools like this won't create a surge in demand in the number of people who want to do woodworking as a hobby. So the same number of people involved in a hobby with safer tools can't be bad in my book.

Juan

Tyson said:
I don't know about that being a good idea....I'm 25 and I can say that kids are dumb these days.

When I was in shop class back on HS there were a lot of dull normals who did some pretty stupid things, One kid almost got impaled from a kickback on a board that he SET onto a spinning saw blade. Another kid almost got impaled because one kid cutting a board thought it would be funny to let it go and see what happened.

I think if this type of saftey were put in place a lot of kids would **** around with the equipment a lot more. And if you teach the kids that they don't have to be safe around it, what's going to happen when they use an "old" saw without safteys?

I strictly remember the words of my shop class teacher. "If any of you **** up even for a second, while you are working on one of these machines....You'll be lucky if you only lose a finger or a hand....These machines don't know the difference between a board and your bone...and wood is 10x stronger than bone"

What's a shop teacher supposed to tell them? "Yeah go ahead and don't pay attention....that's what the saftey is for!"

Blacknwhitepit · Aug 19, 2006

Tyson said:
I don't know about that being a good idea....I'm 25 and I can say that kids are dumb these days.

When I was in shop class back on HS there were a lot of dull normals who did some pretty stupid things, One kid almost got impaled from a kickback on a board that he SET onto a spinning saw blade. Another kid almost got impaled because one kid cutting a board thought it would be funny to let it go and see what happened.

I think if this type of saftey were put in place a lot of kids would **** around with the equipment a lot more. And if you teach the kids that they don't have to be safe around it, what's going to happen when they use an "old" saw without safteys?

I strictly remember the words of my shop class teacher. "If any of you **** up even for a second, while you are working on one of these machines....You'll be lucky if you only lose a finger or a hand....These machines don't know the difference between a board and your bone...and wood is 10x stronger than bone"

What's a shop teacher supposed to tell them? "Yeah go ahead and don't pay attention....that's what the saftey is for!"

My father kept loaded guns in the house. As a child we were told not to touch them. If we did, we were in for an A$$ kicking.

He was not a mean man, but he had rules.

Unfortunately, not every parent tells their children the same thing.

Words are just words to youths unless backed up by some sort of negative reinforcement. When you are in shop class you are not exactly with the future Rhodes scholars and those of parents who show up at PTA meetings.

Simply stated, words are just words to kids, until something happens. Then it is too late.

So we can be totally reactive and just deal with the mess afterwards or we can do something about it.

I understand about personal responsibility; You are an adult, you are running a table saw, you know the risks and you are going to use the table saw.

Different story with children, they don't know what they don't know.

Unless someone has taught them they will not truly learn about safety until they have the scars to prove it.

-BWP

Tyson · Aug 19, 2006

Good points.

But what about all the blades and brakes that the school will have to buy because of kids daring each other to touch it? What if the saftey fails when the kid is dared?

For professionals this is a good tool....but not with a bunch of ******* kids.

wantedabiggergarage · Aug 19, 2006

Tyson said:
Good points.

But what about all the blades and brakes that the school will have to buy because of kids daring each other to touch it? What if the saftey fails when the kid is dared?

For professionals this is a good tool....but not with a bunch of ******* kids.

One teacher on another forum, received one of these after requesting it for the shop. School lawyer looked at it and said buy it. They created a policy that if you trigger it, you buy the replacements, it's a class requirement!

the intimidator · Aug 19, 2006

WHY DO THE STUDENT'S HAVE TO KNOW?

If you dont tell them if you touch the blade it will stop, you still need to treat it as a table saw but why tell them abought the particular feature of the saw. If it is treated as a old table saw then you will be safe around it and if there is to be a accident the safty feature of the saw will kick in stop the blade and hopefully prevent and serius injury.

Coach James · Aug 20, 2006

One of the problems with making something like this mandatory is what it would do to the cost of tablesaws. For a whole lot of people, the cost of a table saw would be out of their range. If increased use dropped the price from $2800 all the way down to $500 it wouls still be beyond the means of many people, including me.

Many table saws already come with blade guards that keep body parts away from the blade. If I keep my fingers outside the blade guard, this electric brake is not needed. If someone else takes off the blade guard, they assume the risk. Air bags are not the same thing. They protect us from someone else's mistake while electric saw brakes protect us only from ourselves.

A school system could say that a kid has to pay for the saw if they trigger the electric brake but it won't happen. Kid triggers the brake, school sends his family a bill, family sues. In court the lawyer gives a speech to the jury about the family being forced to pay for a "common sense" safety feature on a saw. "Do we only wnt the wealthy to have a save learning environment? Don't we owe it to our children to keep them as safe as possible?" It's not hard to see what the result will be.

School systems(taxpayers) will have to foot the bill resulting in even more schools getting rid of woodshop. I work in a high school and I can guarantee you most these electric brakes would be triggered the first month of school.

4t64rd · Aug 20, 2006

I use my regular table saw to make beans and weiners, this saw would **** for me.

Seriously, I have calouses thicker than the skin it took off that hot dog, and I'm just a weekend warrior. I think that the "you trigger it, you fix it" policy would work if you had the parents sign it.

I work for a large school district and we spend money a helluva lot more foolishly than $2800 for a tool to teach kids that helps PREVENT lawsuits instead of creating them. Now if they could invent a school bus door that doesn't open if there are cars moving within 300 yards...

Is there a band saw too?

Coach James · Aug 20, 2006

I don't think a parent signature would make any difference. The parents say they don't have the money to pay for it or won't pay for it, then what? System administrators(politicians) are not going to go to court in an attempt to make a student's family pay for safer equipment. The result will be systems having to pay for replacements.

I think the best safety feature on school buses would be automatic muzzles for the kids.

wow - you have to see it to believe it!

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