Installing air lines in the garage

bry@n · Mar 24, 2016

I have tried searching and I'm sure that my search skills ****.

I've seen some threads regarding this and I'm just looking for more.

has anybody used a search that has provided some valuable info? Trying to research the ins/ outs and potential downfalls.

Even tried Google and that was okay but not much material. You tube was almost a snooze fest.

nadogail · Mar 24, 2016

Your search question may be too broad.

Do you have a plan for the garage and the locations for the intended outlets of the air lines?

IMHO, the design of your air system should reflect where you want the air and where you are planning to place your compressor. The form of your air system should be tailored to the need, that is run the air to where you want it.

Trying to build a shop around an existing air system, IMHO, will be frustrating.

My own small (2 car garage) shop is served by 2 air hoses, connected to a tee at the compressor.

FIRE UP · Mar 24, 2016

bry@an
Well Sir, I don't know if this will help or not but, if you check out my most recent thread:

Finally done, air system installed

You'll see just what I did. I inquired about installing an air system a few months ago and, suggested the use of PVC. I suggested it because, PVC is rated for that kind of pressure. It's 450 psi. Well, I never planned on running that kind of pressure, so I knew I'd be safe in using PVC.

But, when I suggested it, I could feel the arrows, bullets, torpedos, WWII flack, shrapnel, and much more being thrown at me, OVER THE ONLINE air waves, because I even THOUGHT about the use of PVC. Well, I still think it's ok but, based on the major consensus here, I went with copper.

Now, my system is a very simple system. It's comprised of a 30 gallon, 6HP Sears Craftsman 220V compressor, (2) spring loaded hose reels, one is a rigid mount, 50' regular rubber/neoprene hose reel and, the second one, all the way at the other end of the line, is a "Flexilla", 50' that's a pivital mounted unit. There are no filters, no regulators, no dryers. There is one system isolation/shut-off valve, that isolates the compressor and first reel, from the rest of the system.

Then, 52' of 3/4" copper line and a 90 degree down turn, to the Flexilla hose reel and, at the bottom of that drop, a 1/4 turn, 90 degree, short handled drain valve.

The system was all soldered together and, has a few screw in connections at the hose reels and valves. Oh, and there's a pressure gauge at the end of the system so I can tell at a glance, what the system pressure is without going all the way back to the compressor area. Take a look at that thread and see if any of it helps you decide on a plan. Good luck.
Scott

Richard Cranium · Mar 24, 2016

BUT WHAT EVER YOU DO, DON'T USE PVC PIPE OR YOU WILL BE HUNG BY NIGHT FALL.
Yes I wanted that to be in all capital letters.

Rossco · Mar 24, 2016

Is this thread about the search feature here or about airlines?

Shiftless · Mar 24, 2016

Richard Cranium is understating the warning against using PVC for airlines.
I do have one exception. I use PVC for the underground portion of the airline leading to a bubbler in my koi pond. It develops a bit less than 2 psi provided by a small diaphragm compressor.
I feel pretty safe.

bry@n · Mar 24, 2016

nadogail said:
Your search question may be too broad.

Do you have a plan for the garage and the locations for the intended outlets of the air lines?

IMHO, the design of your air system should reflect where you want the air and where you are planning to place your compressor. The form of your air system should be tailored to the need, that is run the air to where you want it.

Trying to build a shop around an existing air system, IMHO, will be frustrating.

My own small (2 car garage) shop is served by 2 air hoses, connected to a tee at the compressor.

I know exactly where I want the lines to be. I guess it would be smart to layout a diagram first. I wil update one soon and post it

FIRE UP said:
bry@an
Well Sir, I don't know if this will help or not but, if you check out my most recent thread:

Finally done, air system installed

You'll see just what I did. I inquired about installing an air system a few months ago and, suggested the use of PVC. I suggested it because, PVC is rated for that kind of pressure. It's 450 psi. Well, I never planned on running that kind of pressure, so I knew I'd be safe in using PVC.

But, when I suggested it, I could feel the arrows, bullets, torpedos, WWII flack, shrapnel, and much more being thrown at me, OVER THE ONLINE air waves, because I even THOUGHT about the use of PVC. Well, I still think it's ok but, based on the major consensus here, I went with copper.

Now, my system is a very simple system. It's comprised of a 30 gallon, 6HP Sears Craftsman 220V compressor, (2) spring loaded hose reels, one is a rigid mount, 50' regular rubber/neoprene hose reel and, the second one, all the way at the other end of the line, is a "Flexilla", 50' that's a pivital mounted unit. There are no filters, no regulators, no dryers. There is one system isolation/shut-off valve, that isolates the compressor and first reel, from the rest of the system.

Then, 52' of 3/4" copper line and a 90 degree down turn, to the Flexilla hose reel and, at the bottom of that drop, a 1/4 turn, 90 degree, short handled drain valve.

The system was all soldered together and, has a few screw in connections at the hose reels and valves. Oh, and there's a pressure gauge at the end of the system so I can tell at a glance, what the system pressure is without going all the way back to the compressor area. Take a look at that thread and see if any of it helps you decide on a plan. Good luck.
Scott

I have been tossing the idea and it was your thread that got me to get off my **** and get it done.

Richard Cranium said:
BUT WHAT EVER YOU DO, DON'T USE PVC PIPE OR YOU WILL BE HUNG BY NIGHT FALL.
Yes I wanted that to be in all capital letters.

That's awesome. I did however see that posted previously and knew not to go PVC.

Rossco said:
Is this thread about the search feature here or about airlines?

It about searching for an air line set up in the garage on this forum or even the net. I'm sure I'm using to broad of a search and would appreciate it if people could help out with ideas or even with words to search etc....

pancho400cid · Mar 24, 2016

as you might guess - there are a kabillion threads about air lines on this site alone.

One thing that helps is to forget about the search feature and use google to search this site using the text "site: garagejournal.com" - that focuses google onto this site.

Cut and paste the text below for an example:

air lines site: garagejournal.com

I got about 3500 hits.

Abeo · Mar 24, 2016

When I was looking into it, I found http://www.tptools.com/tech-metal-piping.dlp was helpful

bry@n · Mar 24, 2016

Checking it out now.

Thanks

Stuart in MN · Mar 24, 2016

The world would be a lot better place if people would try to provide useful advice, instead of repeating the same old lame PVC jokes over and over again.

ejkuhl · Mar 24, 2016

Stuart in MN said:
The world would be a lot better place if people would try to provide useful advice, instead of repeating the same old lame PVC jokes over and over again.

Thank you for your useful advise complaining about people not giving advise :lol_hitti

Anyway some people just use a kit like this one: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0015A11U2/?tag=atomicindus08-20

BD1 · Mar 24, 2016

A nice clean job is using type '' L'' copper with PROPRESS fittings. You maybe able to rent the gun from the supplier that you purchase fittings from. No flux or solderer needed just a crimped joint.

plow · Mar 24, 2016

I'm a CPVC man myself.

mg283680 · Mar 24, 2016

Buy some PVC, leave it out in the sun for 3-6 months, then hit it with a hammer. Picture your air lines exploding and turning into shrapnel entering your face. That should be enough on PVC.

I used 3/4" (yawn) black pipe zig-zagged horizontally front to back on the garage wall mounted on 2x4s cut down the middle with a 1/4" drop every foot. No water can pool in the line so rust shouldn't be an issue. The whip from the compressor to the wall is 1" hose on 3/4" fittings to keep the diameter 3/4" as long as possible.

The vertical bits are close ******* and unions, so it can be taken apart. The horizontal sections are simply 2 10' sections of pipe. If I want to expand, its a simple matter of adding bits easily available from the home store.

On the end, I have a filter/dryer, regulator and 3 outlets.

Its only a 2 car garage, so no need to run a more complicated system with multiple drops all around. A 25' line reaches anywhere in the garage and 50' to the end of the driveway.

I've seen people proudly post pics of systems w/ multiple vertical runs and many drain valves a the bottom of each. Meh. You need to open each of those valves everytime the system is used and again after a few hours. With my admittedly cheesy setup, there are 2 places for water to accumulate; the tank and dryer. Whatever your design, look at it and ask, where will gravity put water?

chaosracing · Mar 24, 2016

Why the negativity to pvc? I can understand CPVC (I refuse to even use it for water. Some places even sell kits made of PEX tubing (not the same as plumbing PEX) for airlines.
As long as you use the proper type, there is no problem. Schedule 40 is recommended. It can withstand 280 PSI with 2" sch 40 pvc. 1" is 450 psi.
My dad ran a PVC sch 40 line into his basement and across the garage because it was easy for him (he was 62 when he did it)

One reason I can understand using either copper or pvc is there is no rust to deal with. Other problems using copper and black iron are cost (copper is very pricey, especially if you have a lot of air line to run) and black iron needs to be measured, cut and threaded. When I build my garage, I plan on using black iron with the exception of a section near the tank which will probably be copper, but thats because I know how to work with 3" copper and know where to get scraps to make it work.

No matter what material you choose, you need to make sure you properly slope any horizontal lines and be able to drain the system. I would put air fittings at locations near doors and your work areas.

moriboy · Mar 24, 2016

You can use PVC for air? Wow I wish I wouldve known that before I spent $500 on Rapidair products. Silly me..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RayBob58 · Mar 24, 2016

To each his own, but I don't know why anyone would consider anything but black pipe for air. It's cheap and easy to work with, and although it will rust, it probably isn't going to lose it's integrity in the user's lifetime. The factory I work in has tens of thousands of feet of it, mostly running at 120 psi, and most of it has been in place since the early '80s. I would never use pvc, cpvc, or a soldered copper joint for air.

jloehlein · Mar 24, 2016

I searched for designs for air systems that are setup for painting before I designed mine. Painters want clean, dry air and typically put a lot of thought into their systems. Of course, I can't find all of the links that I looked at, but here are a couple ones I found helpful.

http://www.sharpe1.com/sharpe/sharpe.nsf/Page/Air+Piping+Layout

http://www.spraygunworld.com/Information2/AirLayout.htm

I ran the lines in my main workshop (32x40x16) with the compressor in one corner feeding a loop mounted ~12' off the ground (above my garage doors) with a ~2% slope towards the opposite corner. I have a hose reel mounted on the ceiling and several drops that all come out the top of the pipe. I have drains at the bottoms of all the drops and a drain leg that comes out of the bottom of the lowest section of the loop. I did it all in 3/4" copper for relatively cheap.

Blazinzuk · Mar 24, 2016

PVC can't take the heat.

I've got a scar on my scalp that's says PVC is bad for running air

So what do you guys consider best bang for the buck. Black pile, copper, rapid air?

Shoot I may use copper cause it looks cool

dhubbard422 · Mar 24, 2016

I'm also planning the piping layout for my workshop and I found the following two links to be helpful.

Pipe diameter required:
http://www.avlusa.com/downloads/how_to_determine_Pipe-Size_chart_2-18-11.pdf

Air compressor basics:
http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/compressed-air/#comments

I still need to do more research on fittings and hose diameter...

chaosracing · Mar 24, 2016

Blazinzuk said:
PVC can't take the heat.

I've got a scar on my scalp that's says PVC is bad for running air

So what do you guys consider best bang for the buck. Black pile, copper, rapid air?

Shoot I may use copper cause it looks cool

If it cant take the heat, then how come its used for hot water piping?

plow · Mar 24, 2016

We use CPVC in Fire Sprinkler Systems everyday. After it's installed we are required to pump it up (with water) to 200 PSI and hold it for 2 Hours. I have personally seen CPVC pumped up to crazy pressure. 600 PSI IIRC.

Tell y'all what. If I remember, and if I have time this weekend, I'll fab up a figure 8 and pump it up to an unrealistic pressure and take a vid of it. This test is what sold me on it.

I suspect that the PVC systems that blew up were thin walled pipe.

Stuart in MN · Mar 24, 2016

The problem with PVC and compressed air is its ductility - while metal piping will bend, PVC shatters. If there's a failure, the rapidly expanding air coming out of the break in the pipe will blow shrapnel all over the place, and into any people who happen to be standing nearby.

That's why it's not safe for compressed air, and why every PVC pipe manufacturer specifically says their product is only for liquids and not gases.

Liquids are non compressible, so if the PVC pipe breaks with water inside the water doesn't rapidly expand like compressed air will.

chaosracing · Mar 24, 2016

This is my final .02 on the subject since some people on here cannot be civil.

Do you know why pipe manuf. state it should not be used for air line??? OSHA.....OSHA has determined that PVC is not impact resistant.....well duh. So to cover their butts, manuf print that on the pipe or literature. But it can be used.

Did I say to use PVC....NO. Did my Dad use it....YES....Do I like it.....NO....but his is on the ceiling and the two drops he has are protected from impact. Am I going to use PVC.....NO. I would also not use copper for the same reason though. I have seen way to many copper fittings split with water pressure and the pipe move. Now imagine that with a full tank of pressurized air. Nope. Unless you are going to fasten it every two feet, nope, no way. Plus since I do not have a money tree growing out back, I will use black iron. I might.....MIGHT use a section of 3" copper, but probably will just use black iron for that section.

RayBob58 · Mar 24, 2016

plow said:
Tell y'all what. If I remember, and if I have time this weekend, I'll fab up a figure 8 and pump it up to an unrealistic pressure and take a vid of it. This test is what sold me on it.

Tell ya what. When you get it pumped up to a crazy pressure, smack it hard with a 2x4. Try to make it look like an accident, ya know, cause we're trying to be realistic. Oh, and take a vid of it.

dhubbard422 · Mar 24, 2016

Sometimes on the web it is hard to know fact from fiction...

Maybe this Osha Bulletin will lend some credence to the anti-PVC argument:
https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=20202

I don't necessarily believe that I'd expect PVC used as air line to break, but if it does... it might get ugly. To me it's not worth the risk.

With respect to the bang for the buck question. 3/4" black pipe and 3/4" copper are roughly the same price. While copper looks cool, I think I'd rather screw the system together - it seem much easier than soldering. Plus mine will be mostly hidden in the attic and in the walls, so not much to look at.

Blazinzuk · Mar 24, 2016

chaosracing said:
If it cant take the heat, then how come its used for hot water piping?

Plumb one 90 into a PVC air system. Now pretend you were painting something or blasting or doing something with constant air movement.

Now go ahead and get some cold water and aloe Vera ready. Now touch that elbow.

It can take the heat half a dozen times.

It was SCH 40 PVC with the proper fittings.

I also didn't believe it wouldn't take it. I though it would be fine. Right up until it split my scalp open from the shrapnel.

Doctor was a jeep guy I knew. He said it happens about twice a month that he is pulling PVC out of someone to stitch em up. And it was always cause they used PVC to run air.

I realistically will use whatever is cheapest. Black pipe is probably gonna be the winner for me.

Plus I know I can get it in 24' ft sticks

CNGsaves · Mar 24, 2016

^ ^ ^ ^ Thanks for Telling It Like It Is . . . . . PVC is NOT to be used for airlines.

Glad to hear that you weren't hurt worse, like lost an eye.

Think the black pipe sticks you'll get at wholesale plumbing supplier will be 21 foot sticks. Good luck with your black pipe build of airline system. That will be a LIFETIME system of dry air and 100% safe.

Blazinzuk · Mar 24, 2016

CNGsaves said:
^ ^ ^ ^ Thanks for Telling It Like It Is . . . . . PVC is NOT to be used for airlines.

Glad to hear that you weren't hurt worse, like lost an eye.

Think the black pipe sticks you'll get at wholesale plumbing supplier will be 21 foot sticks. Good luck with your black pipe build of airline system. That will be a LIFETIME system of dry air and 100% safe.

I was pretty glad it was only 5 stitches. Plus we had aflac at the time. I think we made a 100 bucks on the deal.

For some reason the steel supply place I use has 3/4" and 1" SCH 40 in 20 ft and 24 ft lengths. Don't know why neither do they apparently. But it will be nice to minimize joints

RAYJAY · Mar 24, 2016

Abeo said:
When I was looking into it, I found http://www.tptools.com/tech-metal-piping.dlp was helpful

best layout for airline in a shop :thumbup:

engineer2 · Mar 25, 2016

Mineral oils will eventually weaken PVC.

checkthisout · Mar 25, 2016

RayBob58 said:
To each his own, but I don't know why anyone would consider anything but black pipe for air. It's cheap and easy to work with, and although it will rust, it probably isn't going to lose it's integrity in the user's lifetime. The factory I work in has tens of thousands of feet of it, mostly running at 120 psi, and most of it has been in place since the early '80s. I would never use pvc, cpvc, or a soldered copper joint for air.

Black pipe is not cheap.

FIRE UP · Mar 25, 2016

Well gang,
This is just like every other forum I participate in. There's lots of opinions. I won't go into all the reasons for arguments on all the kinds of pipe to use. I came close to using PVC for one two simple reasons. One, it's cheap, even the thickest stuff is cheap. It can handle the pressure. And two, it's seriously easy to work with. I don't do a ton of air work, with tons of air tools. I have some, and will use them occasionally. But, my system is primarily for supplying air to tires and blowing things off.

But, due to the fact that we live in Lake Havasu City AZ and, it's a pretty well known fact that we do have a bit of HEAT here, in the summer, I thought I'd better one up the PVC and do the system in copper. Well, we all can pick apart any type of system for whatever reasons. Copper may not the best, but, it's metal, and it's better than PVC (in terms of withstanding the effects of the elements).

Will the solder joint fail, WHO THE HELL KNOWS? Will the copper pipe split, WHO THE HELL KNOWS? This system I built, cost me about $245.00 for 62' of 3/4" copper pipe, (3) 90 degree bends, a dozen unions (couplers) (3) Ts, a few brass threaded adapters, a gauge, (2) 1/4 turn 1/2" ball valves, and some copper pipe threaded adapters. This does not include a self recoil, 50' rubber hose reel at the compressor end, and, a Flexilla, 50' pivoting reel at the other end.

I suspect this copper system will seriously out live me. It's mounted on the interior wall of an RV garage with 2"x6" studs for wall thickness throughout the entire house. So, I suspect that there's not going to be much "movement" (for vibration etc.) and, that pipe is 7' high so, damage to it from "bumping" or, dropping 2"x4" on it, are pretty much un-likely. It's attached to the wall, every 4.5' - 5'.

So, I think I'll just live with my copper system and not worry about it. It hasn't leaked one pound of air since I initially pressurized it, two-three days ago. I must have done something right.
Scott

fastbike02 · Mar 25, 2016

I ran black pipe for my shop due to cost and he fact it was made for gas. That being said I have never seen pvc explode personally (except when we made potato guns) but I have been in 3 shops that were plumbed in pvc and the only accident was when I pulled to hard on a hose and snapped a fitting. Not saying it doesn't happen just it never has to me!

crab · Mar 25, 2016

I used PVC about 12 years ago, that's what a lot of guys were using then. I did use the good stuff and it isn't a very long run, maybe 20 feet. Anyway, never a problem with it, I have a couple minor leaks with brass air chucks but the PVC is fine. My compressor is set at 120 PSI and I have a water separator and a regulator in line for painting. I don't use air a lot. I might not use it now if I was building it but I'm not taking it out either, if it aint broke don't fix it !

bigredmf · Mar 25, 2016

What people need to understand is that PVC is rated for pressure based on it being used with a non compressible fluid.

Because air is compressible the working pressure drops dramatically.

Medium pressure NFPA hydraulic cylinders share designs with NFPA air cylinders yet their nominal working pressures are 1000 psi and 250 psi respectively.

Sure your PVC may work but make sure you do not nick it or damage it. The results could be damaging to your family, friends or your personal health, ride or your shop.

RED

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

bry@n · Mar 25, 2016

I will not be using PVC

I appreciate everyones point of view and I stated I wasn't going to use PVC, yet this is turning into a **** show to discuss pvc. I have nothing against anybody that wants to use it; it's your garage. Can we get this back on topic and really focus on copper or black pipe?
I appreciate the layouts and will look them over. I still have to draw a diagram of what I need and it isn't much.

crab · Mar 25, 2016

If I were going to do it over I'd use that blue air line I've seen some of the guys use, designed from the get go for hard air line, easy to work with and looks nice.

moriboy · Mar 25, 2016

crab said:
If I were going to do it over I'd use that blue air line I've seen some of the guys use, designed from the get go for hard air line, easy to work with and looks nice.

Agree. I used Rapidair which seems to be an excellent product.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Installing air lines in the garage

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Banned

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member