50x38 Detached Metal Garage Build

thoraxe · Apr 9, 2016

There are a lot of "designing a garage" threads here, and I intend to poke through a bunch of them, but I wanted to get some of my thoughts down. We're trying to buy a house that can accommodate an extra detached garage, so I figure I might as well try to plan it out (and cost it out!) to see if it's even reasonable/feasible/whatever.

Most of the counties we are looking in will ultimately limit us to about 1000-1100sqft. This puts me at about 25' x 40'. I'm leaning towards steel building because I think it will be cheaper, but maybe it won't. 25' is not a "standard" size, but 30' x 40' is probably too much square footage.

Most of the areas we are looking in will likely have some kind of HOA that says that the building needs to look like the primary structure (the house). Even one of the counties says that. What "looks like" actually means is often up for some debate, but I may unfortunately need something that is 3-side brick looking! Anyway, I digress.

I've started a floor plan using Sketchup (wow that tool is frustrating to learn) (Link is to the SKP file so you'll need Sketchup to open it):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0ahuyft_vrHNVpCYTlrNjMzVG8/view?usp=sharing

Here's the current graphic (as of 24-JUN-2016):

Some initial questions:

* I looked at the Bendpak and a few other company's specifications on their lifts, and it's hard to figure out what size the actual posts are. I guesstimated 19" x 19" square based on the "drive through" and full-width dimensions. I'm using a Bendpak XPR-10-LP for reference (http://www.bendpak.com/car-lifts/two-post-lifts/xpr-10-lp.aspx) Does this seem reasonable?

* I'm using 18" of clearance from the lift post to the wall. Does this seem reasonable?

* Generally speaking, with passenger cars (sports coupes), how much of the car is in front of the lift center, and how much behind? This will help me determine placement in the floor plan.

* I'm using a wall "thickness" of 8". In other words, I'm assuming that the interior dimensions of the building are 8" narrower/smaller than the exterior dimensions. Is this a reasonable assumption for a steel building? I've not been able to find any real wall thicknesses/dimensions other than references to steel gauge, which is not what I'm looking for.

* When figuring out how many cars you can theoretically cram in (assuming rolling dollies for movement), how much space do you put between vehicles?

* How much storage/cabinetry/whatever is a good estimate? I have a roughly 24' x 24' garage in my current home and one wall is dedicated to storage / workbench and so on. It's just about sufficient for what I have now, but I'm wondering what an "ideal" set up would be. I don't intend to really do any fabrication, just maintenance and typical work. Craziest thing I am thinking of doing is completely disassembling a car down to the shell to do a restoration. I realize that's a really generic and odd question, but I am just looking for ballpark suggestion type information.

* I realize that the cost of grading for a slab is highly dependent on many, many factors, but I am wondering what to expect for a "mostly" flat existing area.

* Concrete, too, is dependent. Any strong recommendations on concrete thickness, type, etc?

* I am thinking of going with Precision Epoxy TC-200 flooring (http://www.precisionepoxy.com/FlooringDo-it-Yourself.htm) -- they're local in Georgia.

If there is anything else I should think about, let me know. It will definitely have electrical (110/220) but I don't think I will have plumbing. HVAC is a maybe for the future / down the road kind of thing, as I think that will be fairly expensive.

Thanks in advance!

slidehammer · Apr 9, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

thoraxe said:
Most of the areas we are looking in will likely have some kind of HOA that says that the building needs to...

I would avoid that nightmare entirely by ruling out HOAs from the get-go. Life is hard enough without subjecting oneself to the whims of a private pseudo-government.

This PDF from Mohawk gives suggested dimensions for lift placement in a service bay:

http://www.mohawklifts.com/library/shop_layouts/A-7 12-18-2013 31 Shop Layout.pdf

mmb617 · Apr 9, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

thoraxe said:
* I looked at the Bendpak and a few other company's specifications on their lifts, and it's hard to figure out what size the actual posts are. I guesstimated 19" x 19" square based on the "drive through" and full-width dimensions. I'm using a Bendpak XPR-10-LP for reference (http://www.bendpak.com/car-lifts/two-post-lifts/xpr-10-lp.aspx) Does this seem reasonable?

* I'm using 18" of clearance from the lift post to the wall. Does this seem reasonable?

I have a Bendpak XPR-10A and the posts measure 10"x11". However since my posts sit on a diagonal the actual measurement perpendicular to the wall is about 14". With your lift being symmetric the posts would be square to the wall gaining a bit of room.

I have 24" of clearance between the lift post and the wall. It's tighter than I'd like but workable. With 18" I would hope you are a thin man!

Don't even get me started on buying in a HOA. There's no way in hell I'd ever do that.

thickhead · Apr 9, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

I wish I had added water and plumbing.

MrBalll · Apr 9, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

thoraxe said:
* I looked at the Bendpak and a few other company's specifications on their lifts, and it's hard to figure out what size the actual posts are. I guesstimated 19" x 19" square based on the "drive through" and full-width dimensions. I'm using a Bendpak XPR-10-LP for reference (http://www.bendpak.com/car-lifts/two-post-lifts/xpr-10-lp.aspx) Does this seem reasonable?

The posts are somewhere around that measurement. Someone that actually has a lift may be able to better answer this. From what I've read you are pretty close to the measurements.

thoraxe said:
* I'm using 18" of clearance from the lift post to the wall. Does this seem reasonable?

At 18" from post to wall you will be going sideways each time you squeeze through. Granted you don't have to go that way around and could go around the other side, but if you are doing tires or brakes you may be better off with about 30" in between, if you're not a really big person. But, your car may very well be high enough you can just walk under it so this measurement may not matter too much.

thoraxe said:
* Generally speaking, with passenger cars (sports coupes), how much of the car is in front of the lift center, and how much behind? This will help me determine placement in the floor plan.

For a normal car it is pretty much cut in half for a symmetric setup. So about 7.5 to 8ft in front of the column. Most manufacturers will list recommendations for lift placement on the manual for the lift. Just look online and you will find plenty of info.

thoraxe said:
* I'm using a wall "thickness" of 8". In other words, I'm assuming that the interior dimensions of the building are 8" narrower/smaller than the exterior dimensions. Is this a reasonable assumption for a steel building? I've not been able to find any real wall thicknesses/dimensions other than references to steel gauge, which is not what I'm looking for.

The interior will be 16" smaller as you have two walls on each side. Unless you are saying both walls equal out to 8". My walls will be 6" with drywall and wood and siding. So you are probably pretty close to that area of 8". Just go with 8" for you. Worst case scenario you lose or gain two to four inches overall. Not that big of a deal.

thoraxe said:
* When figuring out how many cars you can theoretically cram in (assuming rolling dollies for movement), how much space do you put between vehicles?

If you are using dollies then you put them as close as you want. Personally I would leave about 18" between each in case I need to squeeze into one. Should be able to open the door enough with 18" to reach in. From front to back I would do about 5" between. Again, whatever you are comfortable with.

thoraxe said:
* How much storage/cabinetry/whatever is a good estimate? I have a roughly 24' x 24' garage in my current home and one wall is dedicated to storage / workbench and so on. It's just about sufficient for what I have now, but I'm wondering what an "ideal" set up would be. I don't intend to really do any fabrication, just maintenance and typical work. Craziest thing I am thinking of doing is completely disassembling a car down to the shell to do a restoration. I realize that's a really generic and odd question, but I am just looking for ballpark suggestion type information.

That's hard to answer. Whatever you have go with that plus some. You will definitely gain tools and things as time goes on. If you have a full 24' wall dedicated to storage right now then go with 30' for storage. It sounds like your new shop will be taller than your current so you will also gain height for storage. Plus you could do a lot of ceiling hangers for storage in your new shop.

thoraxe said:
* I realize that the cost of grading for a slab is highly dependent on many, many factors, but I am wondering what to expect for a "mostly" flat existing area.

I was given a quote of $5,200 for a 29' x 25' cement slab with a 2% slope. Also included in that cost is a 25' x 17' gravel driveway. So you do the math. About $4k for cement for me. This depends on were you live also, but that it a rough idea for you.

thoraxe said:
* Concrete, too, is dependent. Any strong recommendations on concrete thickness, type, etc?

For a two post lift almost all of them call for a minimum of 4" with 3,000 psi. Most of the time if you have an idea of where you want your lift they will pour cement thicker in that area for you. but a minimum of 4" and 3,000 psi for a lift.

thoraxe said:
* I am thinking of going with Precision Epoxy TC-200 flooring (http://www.precisionepoxy.com/FlooringDo-it-Yourself.htm) -- they're local in Georgia.

I don't know about epoxy so I can't say anything here. I may just go with a small square of race deck right underneath my lift. Still not leak proof, but will help with stains and probably cheaper than epoxying my entire garage.

ModClean · Apr 9, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

thoraxe said:
* How much storage/cabinetry/whatever is a good estimate? I have a roughly 24' x 24' garage in my current home and one wall is dedicated to storage / workbench and so on. It's just about sufficient for what I have now, but I'm wondering what an "ideal" set up would be. I don't intend to really do any fabrication, just maintenance and typical work. Craziest thing I am thinking of doing is completely disassembling a car down to the shell to do a restoration. I realize that's a really generic and odd question, but I am just looking for ballpark suggestion type information.

Yeah, pretty generic, but I'll see if I can get you thinkin'...

If "storage / workbench and so on" is really all along one 24' wall, I would say it sounds like you're traveling fairly light. But, there's a lot of individual variation in that type of thing. I suspect the "ideal" setup almost always has more storage than you thought you would need when you started the layout. And remember that storage is always something you can expand later, if you've left yourself the space. If you're still early in your garage-building career, I would recommend leaving yourself options; don't use up all your wallspace right away if you can help it. Maybe you later decide you want shelving on that wall, maybe you decide you want another workbench, maybe you want a lathe. Some things to consider:

- How much work have you already accomplished in your current place (in terms of types of jobs, not necessarily volume) compared to what you're hoping for the new place? If you're planning to significantly increase the types of jobs you're doing, there's the potential for a surprisingly large increase in the number of tools--and therefore storage--needed to get it done properly.

- Are you the type of person to save scrap for potential future use or do you prefer to clear things out at project's end and reacquire as needed for the next job? Some people generate huge hardware and scrap stores over time, other's keep it down to a few drawers of standard hardware. Where do you think you do/will fall on the spectrum?

- Something like a full frame-off tear-down and restoration has the potential to leave parts on every surface of your life. Seriously, be prepared for that project car to explode over everything. You're going to want shelving. And bins. Lots of it. And then, more.

- Make sure you also consider the things that you don't necessarily want in your workshop. Do you have a garden shed to set aside the lawnmower, wheelbarrow, other gardening tools? Do you have/will have kids whose toys are going to end up everywhere? Seasonal decorations? Etc., etc... If these types of things will end up living in the shop you may want to consider making some set-aside, enclosed storage for them to keep them from intermixing with your working environment.

You might consider uploading just an image of your floorplan; you might get some feedback from those who don't want to install sketchup. :thumbup:

thoraxe · Apr 10, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

OK, I tweaked the design given everyone's input here. The Sketchup file (and now an image with a link) are included above.

Lift location, dimensions
I went out to 24" (2') from the lift post to the wall. It looks like there's space for 30" and I still might be able to put/park a car to the right of the lift. But we haven't accommodated storage yet.

I'm still a little unsure of where the actual posts should go (north-south orientation, distance from north wall) in this diagram. Let's assume all the cars point south (I'll see if I can't make that easier to see somehow soon). I would think that I need to move the lift posts further south in the diagram, but as most "work" typically gets done on the front of a car (for argument's sake) then I would potentially be fighting with the car parked more south in the diagram.

I could move the posts further north in the diagram, but then we are potentially dealing with interference from the garage door (assume door will be at the north/top of the diagram). Thoughts here?

MrBalll said:
For a normal car it is pretty much cut in half for a symmetric setup. So about 7.5 to 8ft in front of the column. Most manufacturers will list recommendations for lift placement on the manual for the lift. Just look online and you will find plenty of info.

Looking at the Mohawk diagram they recommend 3' of clearance in "front" of the post, but if you are saying it splits in the middle then on a 16' car with 8' in front of the post the car would basically be on top of the work bench in the Mohawk diagram...

Storage considerations
The shop as it stands basically can't accommodate any storage other than a small work bench, and that assumes I can have an offset door. It doesn't look like a 25' x 40' workshop can store 5 vehicles and have room for storage and other things.

If I drop a vehicle then I can definitely have a storage/tools/work area in the south-east corner of the floor plan, but I am really not seeing any way to accommodate five "big" vehicles with this set-up. The bigger boxes on this floorplan are all 16'8" x 6'3" (Lexus SC300 sized).

This isn't to say that I must be able to fit five vehicles, I was just wondering if it was possible. It's not looking like it.

Current Floorplan 10-APR 1:53PM

NUTTSGT · Apr 10, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

What do you consider "big" vehicles? A 25' deep garage will not give you much room to work around if you have a full size pick up.

Kevin54 · Apr 10, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

I built my addition at 28' wide x 36' deep. That gives me 1008 sq. ft. of garage space. I went with 10' walls and 4/12 scissor trusses which kept me right at the 15' height limit I was required to stay at without a variance. I put in a 2 post lift on one side, and am able to get my Dodge Ram 4wd all the way up in the air to work on it. I'm right at 24" from the wall to the outside of the post on my lift. I should have went a little further just in case I ever wanted to pull an axle. It would be tight the way it is.

I have pics in my signature, or I can take pics of anything you need to give you an idea as to what your size would be @ 100 sq. ft.

The way it is now, with my full size Dodge 4wd 4 door ram in there on the lift side, I also have my Blazer and a BMW Z3 parked on the other side, and still have a rather large open area that I could build a bench or whatever. (I keep my Compact Utility Tractor parked in that spot)

At 28' wide, I have room to open the doors on my vehicles all the way open, except where the lift is sitting as the lift interferes with the door. But I CAN open it all the way if I pull back a ways.

BTW.....save your pic as a JPG instead of a SKP. and it will show up. the way it is, I can't see the pic as I imagine others won't be able to either.

BTW AGAIN.....Welcome to Garage Journal. Hope you hang around and looking forward to seeing your build.

thoraxe · Apr 10, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

NUTTSGT said:
What do you consider "big" vehicles? A 25' deep garage will not give you much room to work around if you have a full size pick up.

thoraxe said:
16'8" x 6'3" (Lexus SC300 sized)

I own an E350 and will eventually be moving to an F350 (or similar). I don't intend for them to ever go on the lift -- you need some serious lift for those things.

thoraxe · Apr 10, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

Kevin54 said:
BTW.....save your pic as a JPG instead of a SKP. and it will show up. the way it is, I can't see the pic as I imagine others won't be able to either.

I went back and did that -- JPG is linked in two places (original post, and again). Thanks for the suggestion!

Kevin54 said:
BTW AGAIN.....Welcome to Garage Journal. Hope you hang around and looking forward to seeing your build.

I've kind of been a lurker for quite some time.

Part of the reason for the design is to figure out the rough cost, size, and other requirements so that we can figure out if what we want is even theoretically possible (given our constraints, desires, whatever).

Thanks for the tips! Digging into your pics now.

Pwrgeek · Apr 10, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

I'll just give you my cost figures. I'm in for about $30/sq ft for a metal building with very little done to the interior and a standard exterior. Now mine may be a little high because of the slab requirements here (we have expansive clay soil) but yours may be higher than mine if you have to face the building with something architectural. Having done both I would never live under an HOA again it absolutely disqualifies a house for us.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

thoraxe · Apr 10, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

Pwrgeek said:
I'll just give you my cost figures. I'm in for about $30/sq ft for a metal building with very little done to the interior and a standard exterior. Now mine may be a little high because of the slab requirements here (we have expansive clay soil) but yours may be higher than mine if you have to face the building with something architectural. Having done both I would never live under an HOA again it absolutely disqualifies a house for us.

We're trying very hard to find a home without an HOA, but in the areas that we are looking in the suburbs of Atlanta it's rather difficult. Not having an HOA often times means a home adjacent to a semi-major street, or something much older that we're not interested in buying.

We've found some neighborhoods with HOAs where the association is only responsible for the pool but really has no say in what you can do to your home. We had an offer in on a house and then saw how restrictive the HOA was so we pulled the plug. A garage and other things were allowed by the words, but it would have been very easy for them to simply deny our garage just because they felt like it.

$30/sqft would put us at between $30-$33,000 depending on the final configuration for a "standard" metal building. That's good to know! Thanks.

rburke65 · Apr 10, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

Well realistically, I don't think you are going to be able to put 5 vehicles in a garage of this size. I think you are kidding yourself. In the end, you are going to need something bigger.......they are ever big enough......and it will cost twice what you plan on spending. Buy hey.....we all do it.

ModClean · Apr 10, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

His image links show up broken, but if you actually click on them they are opening up in another window.

Thoraxe, I think you would be disappointed in that layout. It seems that you are coming to the same conclusion. That configuration would be cramped to the point of uselessness (aside from simply storing the cars).

Even look at just the 3' 6" between the car on the lift and the workbench wall. This is probably the most generous spacing in the whole layout, but in reality that will be a fairly cramped space to work in or under the hood of a car. You can do it, certainly, but it wouldn't be ideal.

Would you be able to access the garage from the 40' side? The option of flipping it all 90 degrees would add many additional layout configurations.

Onewolf · Apr 10, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

I think fitting 5 vehicles in that space would result in a useless nightmare. If you want a usable functional garage I would suggest flipping the garage doors to the 40 foot side, having two 9 ft or one 18 ft garage door and space for a reasonable workable shop on one side.

NUTTSGT · Apr 10, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

thoraxe said:
I own an E350 and will eventually be moving to an F350 (or similar). I don't intend for them to ever go on the lift -- you need some serious lift for those things.

They don't have to go on the lift to realize how little work room you have around them. Try staking out an area in the yard 25' or masking out the shape on concrete somewhere. Then try to wallk around the vehicle and think about carrying tools, moving floor jack or with a bench area in front.

MrBalll · Apr 11, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

thoraxe said:
Looking at the Mohawk diagram they recommend 3' of clearance in "front" of the post, but if you are saying it splits in the middle then on a 16' car with 8' in front of the post the car would basically be on top of the work bench in the Mohawk diagram...

Yes, you only need 3' if you go with an asymmetrical setup. Like I stated if you set it up in a symmetric setup then it will be cut in half.
If you think you would at some point put a full size truck on the lift then symmetric may be your best option. But, if you only go with cars then an asymmetric setup would be best for you.
If you ever plan on working on a full size truck then go at least 12ft from your garage door. This way you can fit a standard bed truck in there and still have a small amount of room behind it to walk.

Like stated by a few others, always over budget. If you have a $20k building planned out, be sure you change that to about $30k. Little things always come up and little things happens that will change your budget. Just be sure to have some extra set aside for little things.

bczygan · Apr 11, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

You simply cannot design your building until you have decided on the property.

You can however, decide on the size of building and look for a lot that will accommodate that.

All of this flows from the functions you need to accommodate.

So start with a list of those.

What are they?

Bill

bczygan · Apr 11, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

Welcome to GJ!

I had to laugh out loud when I opened up your drawing.

You are out of your mind thinking that can be anything but a storage shed for that many vehicles, and storage for nothing else.

No work space whatsoever, and no access to the vehicles to work on them.

You are trying to fit 10 pounds of **** in a five pound sack, probably because of financial concerns.

So it's time to get real.

EXACTLY what are you going to use this for? Exactly what vehicles will be in it? What tools and equipment and supplies? What operations will be performed?

Be specific and complete in your descriptions, and we can help you design what will suffice.

Bill (Designer)

bczygan · Apr 11, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

Another thing.

Why don't you work things backwards.

Take your budget as a limiting factor.

Then take your needs and functions as a factor to expand the size.

Based on these factors, look only in areas that will accommodate your needs. Do the research to find out exactly what zoning classifications, in what jurisdictions, will meet your needs. Get the zoning maps and just look there.

Bill

thoraxe · Apr 11, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

Updated the image link. Hopefully it shows in the thread now.

Loving the feedback. Let me sit down and think about the questions and come up with some answers later today.

kevinwilly · Apr 11, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

I'm looking into building a garage out back. I've got about a 20x20 garage attached to my house with my maxjax in it currently. With tool boxes and storage and everything else, I have ZERO elbow room in there with a car up in the air.

I can honestly say that for me to be comfortable working on a car with room to do stuff like pull out axles, pull an engine, etc, etc with it ON the lift or with it in the bay where the lift is, I'd want 5-6 feet in EVERY direction around where I'm working with NOTHING else in it. So that's my starting point. And then I want about the same size area to have a car with ALL the doors wide open to work on interior stuff.

So I consider the 3 feet around the entire perimeter to be places where workbenches, tool boxes, welders, air compressors, and storage shelves live. I need two bays that are about 250" wide and 325" deep. So that's 27 feet deep plus 3 feet for benches and 42 feet wide plus 3 feet for benches on EACH side.

So basically 30x48. For TWO cars. I'm settling on 30x40 because it's a common size, it fits my lot, and I probably won't have two cars in there at the same time very often. more often it'll be one car and one or two motorcycles.

So my plan is bigger than yours. And it's for TWO cars. Yours is smaller and you want to do 5? NEVER going to happen. You'll be like where I am now in my 20x20 when you are working on stuff. Cursing up a storm that **** is always in your way.

It's not bad when there's no projects going on, but when you've got the engine, ******, and rear end out of the car and are waiting on stuff and want to get started on the interior but you are tripping over stuff, and have to do the headliner in the driveway because there's nowhere good to do it in the garage.... it's enough to make you want to break stuff.

Re-think your plan if you do any real car work, is all I'm saying.

Nowater · Apr 11, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

A friend of mine stores his vette on a lift with his front end loader underneath. Can you get an extra lift and store a vehicle on it and another vehicle underneath?

Kevin54 · Apr 11, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

thoraxe......I can see your drawings now. Storing 5 cars in the garage and expecting to work on one or two of them, in reality won't happen. You are showing 18" between each vehicle at the rear of front of the garage. That will work if you are going to push your cars in, but to drive them in, get them in the exact spot, then getting out of them will be next to impossible. I have a 2 car garage on the house, and if I have two vehicles in there, with a workbench off to the side, it makes it tight to get out of the passenger side of the car. And the other car, you can't get out of the passenger side at all as it's against the wall almost. That garage is 22' wide. Even if I had another 3' on it, there is no way I would attempt to park 3 cars, side by side.

Another thing to consider too is that unless you have three small cars, you won't get 5 cars into the garage. Like I stated, my garage is 28'x36'. With my fullsize truck on the lift side, I can only get another car in front of it if I park it sideways. Even at 36' deep, a fullsize vehicle takes up a lot of room if you leave yourself a little space front and back to walk around. On the other side of the garage, I can park two vehicles comfortably, but they are smaller vehicles. One is an S10 Blazer and the other is my neighbors BMW Z3. I have just enough room to walk around the front and backs of the vehicles. What you are proposing is only 4' deeper. And at 4' more than mine, that would give me an extra 15" front and rear. And I don't have any workbenches in that section of the garage.

To comfortably park 5 cars, you really need to be looking at a minimum of 30' wide x 50' long. Then you still have to consider workbenches and toolboxes. You don't want to have to walk sideways every time you walk past a vehicle. Nor do you want to have to pull a vehicle out, just to move your toolbox around. Give yourself some room to breath. If you are limited to 1100 square foot without having to jump through hoops, then it is, what it is. Just don't get your expectations too high when you can't get every vehicle in the garage. You also don't show anything else in your sketch. Air compressor, welding cart, or just this and that which would take up room. And almost every garage has that extra stuff in there that takes up room. A set of sawhorses here, a mini fridge there, a couple of stools, a floor jack, a couple of boxes that you don't know where to put them.......all of that takes up floor space and takes away from parking space. You have a good idea in your head, but you need to get a little more realistic about things and the space needed.

thoraxe · Apr 24, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

Kevin54 thanks for the feedback.

The 5 cars was definitely just a "what if?" and it's clear that it really won't work without ridiculous effort. My wife and I then took it down to four cars and even then with a 25x40 and adequate clearance around a lift it was still tight to also have workbenches and cabinetry.

So, we thought about it for a bit and decided to alter our house search. This allows us to fit a larger building on the property. The county we're looking in currently allows 60% of the primary structure as an accessory structure if the lot size is > 1.0 acres. So, a 30x50 would mean 1500sqft of garage and a minimum of 2500sqft of house, and we are looking for homes at least that size or larger.

So, at some point in the near future I'll modify the design for a 30' x 50' space and see what I can come up with. I still don't intend to try to shove 5 cars in it, but I think that will be a much more comfortable space for the 4 rather long vehicles that I am envisioning keeping in there.

The point that Kevinwilly made about the actual projects was important, too. One of these cars is a full-on race car (under construction) and I would like to be able to tear it down to the bare tub and reassemble it at some point in the future. Not having any place in the workshop to actually store a rear and front subframe and engine and etc. when attempting such a project would definitely be a pain in the ****.

Thanks all for the feedback. Back to the drawing board.

MrBalll · Apr 25, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

Rather than finding a much larger lot, what if you just find a house with a two or three car garage already with it and you just build your initial shop plan?
That way you don't have to spend more money to make an even bigger shop to put all your vehicles in. You could put your daily drivers in the attached garage and your toys in the detached.

If you have the money the look for bigger lots and houses then go for it. Just don't get in over your head and select your new house based purely on your dream garage needs. <-- I may catch flak for that comment being that this site is all about garages and bigger stuff.

Just my .02

Stuart in MN · Apr 25, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

Personally I'd flip the garage dimensions, so it's multiple vehicles wide and one vehicle deep. It will be a pain to get the vehicles in the back out of the garage, and ultimately they don't get used very often.

ddawg16 · Apr 25, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

I agree that 25" deep is not much.

Nothing wrong with making it look like the house. You will be happier in the long run

And...may I suggest....2-story? Maybe not the area over the lift...but the rest? Great for storage...maybe a small bedroom for guests or an office....

My garage is 20x25.....5 more feet in the back would be nice. But at least it's 2-story

Click on the link in my signature for pics

cshield09 · Apr 26, 2016

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

Even if you don't think you'll need it, I'd still think hard about water/drainage, or even just running below grade piping and a hose bib now to the outside garage wall and bringing in overhead PEX later if needed. Run under slab drain piping at the spot you think most likely to get a utility sink in the future, and cap it two feet or so outside the slab perimeter. PVC is cheap, trenching is not.

Even if you never use it, it'd be worth it down the line to tell a potential that the garage is "drainage ready".

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

thoraxe · Jun 23, 2017

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

So we've spent a lot of time looking up zoning, deliberating, doing all kinds of other stuff, and not much has changed on the house front, but we are finding properties that can accommodate some kind of detached structure.

I finally sat down and redesigned the garage thinking about a lot of the things that people had suggested previously, allowing for more space, and keeping things away from the "work" area.

The garage above is a 46x32. I was able to shrink it a little bit from 50' deep and move any bench or cabinetry over to the right side. This still leaves a big empty area to essentially disassemble the entire vehicle that's on the lift and still be able to put it back together. It also leaves room for some kind of sink or other stuff up in the "upper right" corner.

If I think about my regular house storage garage now, there's about 2' of clearance on the sides of cars, and about 3' in front and behind. However, since the 3 cars "on bottom" are essentially either storage or non-dailies, being as close to the door as possible would make even more space around the lift and work area.

Other than going narrower, I'm not sure how much shorter I can make this floor plan and still have space to get around the car on the lift. The vehicle boxes are essentially to scale and the dimensions are pretty close to accurate. I assumed 8" from the outside wall to the inside wall, but losing an inch or two if that's too little is not going to change a whole lot here.

Does this seem like a "functional" dream garage? Is there something that really I should re-consider? There's 10' of space from the lift pole to the back wall of the garage. That measurement is taken from the front of the pole, not the dead center of the pole. So I think I have more than the "recommended" clearance there. There's also 10' of space between the lift poles. I forget which brand of lift I stole the measurements from, but if I remember right those pole sizes should be big enough to represent most lifts that I might choose.

From looking at other threads I believe that I will need at least 12.5' of ceiling clearance in order to accommodate a "closed top" lift.

Thanks again!

keen · Jun 24, 2017

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

thoraxe said:
Does this seem like a "functional" dream garage? Is there something that really I should re-consider?

your image link is bad - doesnt show in the thread, and clicking requires permissions. (google for photo sharing on forums *****. use photobucket, or upload them to the post)

thoraxe said:
There's 10' of space from the lift pole to the back wall of the garage. That measurement is taken from the front of the pole, not the dead center of the pole.

my lift is at the back of my 30x42 (door on the short side), similar to your original sketch. I have 14.5ft from the -inside- of my back wall (that's not the 42' dimension...8x8 posts and 2x6 on-side girt inside that 42') to the ~center of my 2 post symmetric.

That -just- gives me enough room for shallow (12-18") cabinets on the wall behind the lift, and still be able to back a long bed quad cab in and lift it - if I close the cabinet doors and move whatever might be back there. ('00 ram 2500 in that case, longest truck I've owned since I built the shop at 244". the next two were 237" and the rebel is even shorter)

with that 14.5ft, everything else is comfortable to back in, and gives walking room behind it. I don't like the "working" end to be between the car and the wall, personally. but I have the option of parking in either direction depending on what I'm doing or what I'm working on. (the aircooleds, for example, are front in most of the time because the business end is at the back..)

if I had 10ft I could only front-in most stuff, and it would be very tight working conditions - I'd hate to pull a motor (vw or v8 or i4) in that space.

Mind you - that's a symmetric. an asymmetric loads very different - and 10ft might be fine. But really, you need to calculate that based on the CG of your vehicles in relation to the CG of the lift plus the lift arm placement options.

but personally I wouldn't recommend a pure asymmetric if you only have 1 lift and you work on a variety of vehicles. A versa (challenger, bendpak both offer them) that lets you use the arms in -either- symmetric or asymmetric loading is better.

at the end of the day - give yourself room in the lift area. until you have the specific lift (or at least it's specific dimensions) and your specific cars, all you can do is ballpark. so you kind of need to ballpark things - and extra space is best. (or a flexibility on "well, nope, no cabinets there!")

You'd mentioned a race car - figured about 3 cars worth of space (including the lift) if you're conservative during a full teardown IME. So figure on parking some stuff outside..

thoraxe said:
From looking at other threads I believe that I will need at least 12.5' of ceiling clearance in order to accommodate a "closed top" lift.

Thanks again!

Open or closed top (floor plate or clear floor), you really dont want less than that 12.5 number. you've got hoods that will be raised (which are often higher than roofs), light fixtures to clear, etc. I've got 12'7" and it's just enough for everything I have. but when it comes to lift selections, if you have less than 13-14' you tend to be a bit limited. (might be that your needs fall easily within the limits that can be stood up in 12' of space and have their crossbars clear - but if you like shopping used...well. you limit yourself.

I'd also strongly suggest building as much attic as possible into your trusses - a full 8' height center aisle attic might make for a steep pitch and a high peak, but that extra space becomes valuable over time. Of course, you'll lose a bit of floor for the stairs (or build them outside). but in reality, you need that under stair space anyway to put things in you haven't factored for yet.

keen · Jun 24, 2017

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

thoraxe said:
If I think about my regular house storage garage now, there's about 2' of clearance on the sides of cars, and about 3' in front and behind. However, since the 3 cars "on bottom" are essentially either storage or non-dailies, being as close to the door as possible would make even more space around the lift and work area.

Keep in mind that a lot of the work that goes on in the shop isn't particularly friendly to stored cars.... welding, grinding, painting, throwing tools, (or tools throwing parts or nuts). Even just doing detailing work with machines slinging wax or polish. Or that chunk of wood that ripped off the end of that board you were trimming on the miter saw. Or.

And you will need to be able to walk into the space, and likely bring things in and out of the space - so you might want to lose some wall space for at least a walk door closer to the work area. (haven't seen your latest sketch)

personally - as much as I store cars in my shop, it's an absolute pain to do it. I'm forever pulling something out to make room for work, or to shift something onto the lift, and invariably something ends up being left out in the rain that shouldn't be.

Consider alternative parking structures (now or in the middle future) - a garage, carport space, etc - even if it's a lower grade square tube building - something that's just dedicated to the parking task.

And of course -other- stuff ends up being stored in the shop, too, over time. like those now-down-to-only-4 pallets of books that are inventory for our bookstore. Or the gym. And the 2 sections of rolling baker scaffolding, because it's a ***** to install conduit and pull wires on a 13' ceiling without it. Or the new-to-me air conditioner parts salvaged out of a house being torn down, waiting to get installed somewhere. And lets not forget the tractor(s) and implements.... and the chainsaws. And the chainsaw chains. And the tools to sharpen the chainsaw chains.

Sorry, what were we talking about?

keen · Jun 24, 2017

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

...and the engine hoist has to live somewhere. and the transmission jack. and the floor jacks and jack stands that almost never get used again. and the press. and the drill press. and band saw. and that miter saw. and the table saw. oh, and the oil drain cart, and the tall jack stands for use under the lift.

keen · Jun 24, 2017

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

oh and - if it's not obvious: extra height is cheap compared to length/width. and an attic is nearly free - you dont even have to floor it now (though I'd recommend it) nor build stairs (but make sure they're in the design plan so they have a place they fit) now.

one thing I wish I had - more space! but separated space. like an 5/6/8' shed roof section that runs across a back or side with a double door into it, to use for storing the infrequently used tools, parts, cabinets, etc. a back room, if you will.

thoraxe · Jun 24, 2017

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

I just moved all of the images to my own server, they should all work now. I can provide sketchup files as well if anyone wants.

* If we do a new construction home we are going to build it with a 4 car attached. Then one of the "stored" cars in this diagram will likely not need to be stored.

* All of the "stored" cars in this diagram are operable and registered.

* I don't envision painting (other than maybe spray paint) anything in this garage, but I could probably come up with some kind of hangy thing to keep dirty work away from clean work.

* I don't think I am going to be doing much chopping/hacking/grinding/welding. But three car covers aren't that expensive? Am I being naive?

* Ceiling height comments duly noted. It will honestly depend on who builds it and (if there's an HOA), what is allowed. If there's no HOA I am going to go metal building and this gets a lot easier. Bricks and sticks is really expensive. Alternative parking structures is probably going to be a no-go unless we end up somewhere without an HOA. It's something we're looking for, but it's extremely hard to find enough land at a cost that works for our budget to build house+garage. That's also why I'm trying to figure out the "smallest" space I can deal with. I'd rather just say F-it and build a 50x50 but I don't think I can afford a bricks and sticks 50x50. For reference we're still trying to find a full acre. You could probably fit the house type we want and a 50x50 on 0.75ac if the lot was perfect, but even finding that in a reasonable area is a challenge.

* I don't think I'm going to need/have a full 24 feet of cabinet/workbench/etc. I envision the right and/or top of this diagram being, in general, tool and equipment storage and benchy-type stuff. The yellow box is 2.5' deep. If you wrap that space all around the top/right side (think about an L shaped yellow box), it ends up being 85 sqft of space along that wall. Essentially from the lift post-ish at the top, over to the top-right corner, and then down the side wall towards one of the cars. That still leaves 242sqft or so of completely empty space in that area between the lift and the bench.

This really is all kind of an exercise in peeing when you have to poo - it's a strange little balancing act of house and garage placement, budget, area, and so on and so forth.

Fun stuff!

thoraxe · Nov 8, 2017

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

As an update:

After a long, long search and tons of deliberation and meetings and more deliberation and more meetings we finally ended up going to contract on a new construction. The home will be on approximately 1.5 acres. It is a detached home on a no-outlet street (awesome) with no HOA. The lot is relatively flat and there will be only about 1-2' of elevation change from street level to the main house garage.

We ended up adding an extra bay to the main house garage, so there will be a 2x2 setup where one garage is at a 90-degree angle to the other - the whole house is basically an L shape. Will share some engineering-y drawings when I get them.

Because we ended up with more than 1 acre, the county that we chose has an ordinance that says what percentage of the total finished square footage you are allowed to construct as a detached structure (eg: 2nd garage).

So, as a result, I can actually end up building a 49x49 (and maybe I can get a variance for a 50x50). And, because there's no HOA, I don't have to do a "bricks-and-sticks" construction, and I can do a metal building instead.

So, this definitely opens up my construction options, and adds 830sqft if not more over the 32x46 plan I was struggling with.

I doubt we'll have the funds to build the detached garage any time soon, but at least now I have a lot more flexibility.

Stay tuned!

JerryB · Nov 8, 2017

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

I hadn't previously seen this thread, but as I read through it I was thinking that you needed to do exactly what your latest post describes.

Trying to fit your requirements into some bureaucrat's or some HOA BOD's ideas of what you can build or do usually results in a great deal of frustration and unhappiness.

Congratulations!

Good that you are able to get started on what I believe will ultimately make you really happy, even if it takes some time to get there!

6768rogues · Nov 9, 2017

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

If in the market to buy, I would rule out HOA communities. I do too many things in my shop that HOA rules would let them pester me about. I keep my property neat and clean, but during projects things get disorganized for a short time. Occasionally there is an unlicensed vehicle outside for a short time, I paint things, I make noise, sometimes parts are outside while doing a project, I might be out there at night, they will accuse you of operating a business, occasional scrap pile till I haul it away, occasional sandblasting outside, trailer or truck parking, etc. Almost everything I do would expose me to some busybody and a rule book. You could be poking your finger into a hornet's nest.

stm317 · Nov 9, 2017

Re: Designing detached garage - looking for input

Congrats! SOunds like you'll be able to make it exactly what you want.

One thing to keep in mind while planning though: Lots of building materials come in 4 or 8 ft increments. Having the building dimensions be divisible by 8 should reduce material waste and the amount of labor required to build. This reduces overall cost, and speeds up the building process. I had planned on a 30X50 pole building, but found that it was actually cheaper to do a 32X48. And I ended up with a bit more sqft too as a result. In your case, I'd expect a 48X48 to be a decent amount cheaper than a 49X49 or 50X50, and you could skip the red tape with the county too.

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