Odd 1/4 ratchet- Is it PLOMB?
- Thread starter 3baygarage
- Start date
tombell572
Well-known member
Thought it was enormous until I saw the dime. A nice one.
Tom B.
Tom B.
Provincial
Well-known member
Looks like a refrigeration tool. The "ON" marking is a hint.
Or is it to identify direction?
davethorik
Well-known member
Since it says off on the opposite side...I'm gonna have to agree with you...
four.cycle
Well-known member
looks like it's missing the drive adapter, but other than that I got nothin'. 
here's another just like it:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Min...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
here's another just like it:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Min...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
drivesitfar
Well-known member
3Bay: I wonder if it was a PRE PLVMB wrench before they produced the ones that you can pull out the pin and turn it around? I've got a few similar wrenches to that and i'll have to pull them out and take a look to see if they have ON and OFF on them.
interesting and looks like it's built to go on a handle or a nut or bolt just like that and start turning.
interesting and looks like it's built to go on a handle or a nut or bolt just like that and start turning.
twertsy
Well-known member
"kinda but not quite" looks Plomb. Stumped on this one........
woody 73
Well-known member
Anyway for you to unscrew the cover and take a picture of the inside for us to take a look at it ?
woody 73
Well-known member
Plomb in 1/2 drive from the AA web-site:
http://alloy-artifacts.org/Photos/tools/plomb_12dr_dr8_ratchet_la_f_cropped_inset2.jpg
http://alloy-artifacts.org/Photos/tools/plomb_12dr_dr8_ratchet_la_f_cropped_inset2.jpg
twertsy
Well-known member
Just curious Woody.............they are nothing alike?
OP
3baygarage
Well-known member
I will get some pics of the internals later, didn't even take a peek yet. That would be a big help.
Reason I thought it might be Plomb is the shape of course, and the center screw resembles a 4751 mini ratchet.
four cycle -that is this ratchet. It came with what I thought was a male plug but turned out to be a ground down metal bar jammed in with no socket balls. That part was a letdown but I can use any plug.
I can't find reference to another. I was thinking contract tool or prototype with these strange markings.
Some of their early ratchets did say ON/OFF. The refrig. idea, well had not considered that.
Reason I thought it might be Plomb is the shape of course, and the center screw resembles a 4751 mini ratchet.
four cycle -that is this ratchet. It came with what I thought was a male plug but turned out to be a ground down metal bar jammed in with no socket balls. That part was a letdown but I can use any plug.
I can't find reference to another. I was thinking contract tool or prototype with these strange markings.
Some of their early ratchets did say ON/OFF. The refrig. idea, well had not considered that.
woody 73
Well-known member
Just showing the only example that I could find in case someone thought it might look like it came from plomb.
twertsy
Well-known member
Gotcha! Really like to see the guts......
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Hi 3bay,
I thought for sure you had guessed Plomb due to its similarity to the markings on this Plomb special contract tool, modified from a 5249 (3/8-inch drive) ratchet.
From AA:
"Fig. 177 shows an unusual Plomb special-order ratchet, made with a cut-out drive gear fitted with a pin. The top of the ratchet is marked as model 5249 with the PLVMB logo, and a faint "War Finish" stamping can be seen below the shifter. The reverse is stamped "Made in U.S.A." with a "BC" code, and a code "V239.17-1" is stamped just below the cover plate.
The overall length is 4.5 inches, and the finish is plain steel.
The application for this tool is currently not known. The ratchet appears to be designed to turn a shaft using the pin in the drive gear, but because the drive gear has been cut away, the gear will disengage from the pawl after a partial turn.
The "V239.17-1" code is likely a model number or specification for the tool...
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
If you're wondering what I am referring to, the "V-237.15" on your wrench and the "V239.17-1" on the modified 5249 are obviously related. The format difference (hyphen, no hyphen) means nothing. Those kinds of minor discrepancies between a model or other number on paper and a number as tooled on a die are very common in that era. Whatever that number represents (contract, model, type, engineering specification, etc - and FWIW, I am inclined toward engineering specification), it sure looks like it was for a variety of (or, at least two) special tools, all modified from their original. If this was a game show and I had to guess, my guess would be that these were R&D experiments or some very obscure clients in onesy-twosy quantities.
Interestingly, your ratchet - with the round, all-knurled handle - looks more like a 1/4-inch drive version of an early, non-reversible 5249 ratchet than it does a 4749, which had a blocky handle, or a WF-8, which had a very broad flat, rimmed handle that tapered out even broader to a rounded end. EDIT: In fact, since they were already hacking up a 5249 for the other tool, it looks like they may have just inserted a 1/4-inch female drive plug into a 5249 ratchet frame to produce this non-reversible (manually reversible) 1/4-inch drive ratchet.
Interestingly, your ratchet - with the round, all-knurled handle - looks more like a 1/4-inch drive version of an early, non-reversible 5249 ratchet than it does a 4749, which had a blocky handle, or a WF-8, which had a very broad flat, rimmed handle that tapered out even broader to a rounded end. EDIT: In fact, since they were already hacking up a 5249 for the other tool, it looks like they may have just inserted a 1/4-inch female drive plug into a 5249 ratchet frame to produce this non-reversible (manually reversible) 1/4-inch drive ratchet.
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OP
3baygarage
Well-known member
Thanks Lugnutz! I was about 99% sure it was Plomb and that sure proves it.
I saw that other oddball on AA many times but been so long since reading that. Great eye!
Pictures still to come.
I saw that other oddball on AA many times but been so long since reading that. Great eye!
Pictures still to come.
OP
3baygarage
Well-known member
OP
3baygarage
Well-known member
Provincial
Well-known member
Here is the Ebay listing.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Min...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Min...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
twertsy
Well-known member
What's interesting to me is the "War Finish" stamp. I was under the impression that stamps purpose was to designate those tools sold to the public during the war. That would lead me to believe this tool was for another defense contractor rather than the military
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Todd,
It's possible that the "WAR FINISH" stamp was added later, not at the time of its manufacture. In other words, it might’ve originally been military production, then re-purposed with the “WAR FINISH” stamp for civilian markets. Just a thought. It is odd. Then again, that V239 tool doesn't have the other markings, either (172 / 4130).
3Bay,
Thanks for the photos. It would be interesting to compare those parts to their counterparts in a 4749, a WF-8, and just for sh*ts and grins, a 5249.
I have one more meaty research tidbit to add at this time: It’s very likely that the “4130” mark on the flip side is a reference to the AISI steel grade, which is a Chrome-Moly. That would date this to prior to 1942, when WPB alloy restrictions kicked in, and “New Emergency” (triple-alloy) steel grades (8XXX) were invented and approved. The only way it could be later is if the special contract had A-1-K or higher priority to use 4130 steel. The chances of that are very slim. Small arms makers did not have A-1-K or higher priority, and many of their components that were chrome-moly prior to 1942 used carbon or 8XXX series steel as a substitute afterwards. And even aircraft manufacturers were using new 8XXX series steel.
It's possible that the "WAR FINISH" stamp was added later, not at the time of its manufacture. In other words, it might’ve originally been military production, then re-purposed with the “WAR FINISH” stamp for civilian markets. Just a thought. It is odd. Then again, that V239 tool doesn't have the other markings, either (172 / 4130).
3Bay,
Thanks for the photos. It would be interesting to compare those parts to their counterparts in a 4749, a WF-8, and just for sh*ts and grins, a 5249.
I have one more meaty research tidbit to add at this time: It’s very likely that the “4130” mark on the flip side is a reference to the AISI steel grade, which is a Chrome-Moly. That would date this to prior to 1942, when WPB alloy restrictions kicked in, and “New Emergency” (triple-alloy) steel grades (8XXX) were invented and approved. The only way it could be later is if the special contract had A-1-K or higher priority to use 4130 steel. The chances of that are very slim. Small arms makers did not have A-1-K or higher priority, and many of their components that were chrome-moly prior to 1942 used carbon or 8XXX series steel as a substitute afterwards. And even aircraft manufacturers were using new 8XXX series steel.
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travissweet
New member
alloy Artifacts has a pic of Plomb ratchet. 5249 (v239.17-1) Special order war finish. Alloy Artifacts states unknown use. This would have been made during WWII at the heighth of aircraft production. I am an aircraft mechanic by trade and I believe this ratchet was made to turn control cable turnbuckles. I would like to own one, but cannot locate one for sale.
OP
3baygarage
Well-known member
Paperweights is what I would call ‘em. Not anything fancy, don’t believe they’re marked.
That’s a good theory. Would it make sense for it to be a 5” ratchet for use one turnbuckles?
Anyone know if AA sold that piece yet?
travissweet
New member
I am an aircraft mechanic by trade and I believe this is made to adjust control cable turnbuckles. War Finish would indicate manufacture during the height of aircraft production. I would like to own one of these, but have been unable to locate one
travissweet
New member
control cables are typically 3/32, 1/8 and 3/16 diameter occasionally 1/4 If it is indeed for turnbuckles the 4" length would be ideal for difficult access. I am just learning to maneuver in this forum. Forgive me if I have replied more than once to this
travissweet
New member
Mr. Lugnutz please forgive me. I have not figured out how to navigate the Forum site. This is in addition to my being Tech challenged. I believe the special order Plomb 5249 with cutout and pin was made to adjust aircraft control cable turnbuckles. First I saw was in Alloy Artifacts and as you have said original purpose unknown. I would like to own one of these. I have been searching the internet with no luck. With the advent of fly by wire, flight control cables are something of the past. I continue to maintain aircraft manufactured in the fifties and sixties and would like to own one.
r_olson_06
Well-known member
I like that theory. Thanks for the input.
Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,