1900 Carriage House Shop Renovation

jon_beer · Jul 11, 2016

Hi all,

Some of you may have been watching my bandsaw restoration here on GJ. After two years of waiting I'm finally getting to do my shop renovation. My fiancee and I have a 7000sq ft Victorian in the Hudson Valley in NY. We are landlords (two buildings with 9 rental units) but formally trained as fine artists. We moved to the area from NYC 2 years ago and now have two old buildings we've been renovating and renting out. We do most of the work ourselves and since coming here carpentry and woodworking have turned from a faraway dream to a passion.

Here is a shot of the house (on left) with the garage on the right side.

I have a few big projects beginning soon (custom furniture and 2 sets of carriage house doors) so getting the shop up and running became a priority. Here are some pics.
Its a 16 x 30 garage probably built in the early 1900s. The house is 1890 I think this was a later edition.

Right after we moved in, getting some basic wiring going.

Clearing out the side and back to furr the walls plumb and level.

Walls framed with 1 1/2" hat channel. This is Tuesday or Wed last week, since then I've roughed in my outlets. OSB and sheetrock arriving today, will go up after I insulate.

During heavy rains I have had problems with seepage thru the back wall. So this weekend I dug out the tiny alley behind the garage (which was probably no wider than 14" at the most) cleaned off the concrete and formed up some knee walls.

Before - note shovel for scale

After

I will post some of my plans and layout drawings soon, it will be a primarily woodworking shop with some metal work. Stay tuned! Insulation, OSB and Sheetrock in the next few days!

yhprum · Jul 11, 2016

Nice Place, subscribed!

captain14 · Jul 11, 2016

That's a neat old building.

The picture is clear for the rear where the leaks are, but what was there? Looks like the concrete broke off.

jon_beer · Jul 11, 2016

captain14 said:
That's a neat old building.

The picture is clear for the rear where the leaks are, but what was there? Looks like the concrete broke off.

I think that there was something like what I made there originally. Either that or the lumpiness was just a result of shoddy workmanship. But since the rest of the shop was seemingly built with care I think its just deteriorated concrete or maybe even a crappy patch job that came later on.

theoldwizard1 · Jul 12, 2016

jon_beer said:
During heavy rains I have had problems with seepage thru the back wall. So this weekend I dug out the tiny alley behind the garage (which was probably no wider than 14" at the most) cleaned off the concrete and formed up some knee walls.

Nice looking knee walls.

How far did you dig down and how deep is the foundation there ?

I would have gone down about 150-200 mm below the floor level, laid in some PVC drainage pipe pitched to an open area and then covered with gravel.

lewis26 · Jul 12, 2016

I'm a little sad you're going to cover those beautiful brick walls with sheetrock

jon_beer · Jul 12, 2016

theoldwizard1 said:
Nice looking knee walls.

How far did you dig down and how deep is the foundation there ?

I would have gone down about 150-200 mm below the floor level, laid in some PVC drainage pipe pitched to an open area and then covered with gravel.

I went down a 4 inches below floor level. Unfortunately I have a tree on one side of the trench and a cement window well on the other, so no pipe. :-/

I plan to redirect the downspout into a rain catchment barrel and water the garden with the run off.

lewis26 said:
I'm a little sad you're going to cover those beautiful brick walls with sheetrock

Not to worry, I'm keeping one long wall open! If I couldve left it open I would've, but those exterior walls needed insulation so I can work during the winter in the shop.

My fiancee will have her gardening work area on the opposing wall. We plan to limewash the brick (better than a latex wash, it will strengthen the mortar joints.)

I had promised some sketches regarding my layout yesterday.

Here is one of the first I did, looking from where the gardening area (pictured in the lower half of the sketch)

Here is a clearer view of the layout. Tablesaw/router/assembly table in the center. L made of cabinets with the dust collector and compressor on the right side. Front third of the garage is the garden area and bicycle/motorcycle parking.

I was really lucky to score these birch ply custom kitchen cabs at my local Habitat ReStore! As I'm sure a lot of you have, I went back and forth planning my storage - do I build, do I buy, do I build, do I buy....these solved it!

Not that I had actual sizes to work with I layed everything out in Sketchup to finalize the layout.

Just for kicks - I've been working out ideas for a combination woodworking / welding table. Since most of my paid work is in wood, this isnt a priority but thought you guys might like to see the initial ideas:

I'm off to wrap up the last of the electrical and hopefully today do 70% of the insulation! More updates soon.
J

pitterpat · Jul 12, 2016

jon_beer said:
I went down a 4 inches below floor level. Unfortunately I have a tree on one side of the trench and a cement window well on the other, so no pipe. :-/

I was really lucky to score these birch ply custom kitchen cabs at my local Habitat ReStore! As I'm sure a lot of you have, I went back and forth planning my storage - do I build, do I buy, do I build, do I buy....these solved it!

Not that I had actual sizes to work with I layed everything out in Sketchup to finalize the layout.

Just for kicks - I've been working out ideas for a combination woodworking / welding table. Since most of my paid work is in wood, this isnt a priority but thought you guys might like to see the initial ideas:

I'm off to wrap up the last of the electrical and hopefully today do 70% of the insulation! More updates soon.
J

Great score at the the Habitat ReStore, we never have anything like that here or for those prices. Looks like it's going to turn out good.

jon_beer · Jul 12, 2016

pitterpat said:
Great score at the the Habitat ReStore, we never have anything like that here or for those prices. Looks like it's going to turn out good.

Thanks! Our ReStore is really hit or miss but honestly...80% miss. I try to go semi regularly but good stuff disappears so quickly its all luck.

ryanp77 · Jul 12, 2016

Nice start loking forward to the build

piro222 · Jul 13, 2016

Nice place ... I love the brickwork but understand the issue of insulating cold shops in the wintertime so you can work. I frequently have to use a pair of gloves with the fingertips cut off.

It's a problem with the Goodwills and the Restores that they are mostly miss, but can really be hit when it's right ... seems like the stars lined up for you.

Subscribed!

Hostyle · Jul 14, 2016

Subbed! This promises to be all kinds of good.

Do you have to do any work in the house to? Or is that all finished?

Irongrave · Jul 14, 2016

Great looking project so far. I love your renderings good luck with it.

95riosnake · Jul 14, 2016

Very nice project thus far, and I love the old victorian house! It takes true dedication to really go through one of those houses to update it properly, but it is 100% worth the effort IMO.

Very nice hand sketching as well :thumbup:

jon_beer · Jul 22, 2016

Ryan, Piro, Hostyle, Iron, 95rio - Thanks for the kind words! They have been encouraging the past week as I've gone from studs to insulation, osb, and drywall! Here are some pics. My iPhone camera is full of sawdust and most of these are taken late at night when I finish, sorry for the dull quality. (Switched to one of my other actual cameras, so the second half of this post has some better pics.)

Insulation - R13 Kraft faced, with taped seams. Spray foamed the rim joist below the roof deck too.

1/2" OSB installed!

Drywall:

I've been doing this mostly by myself so between work it has taken a few days. Each phase comes with its own tedium to do it properly but I really think it is paying off now that I'm starting to see the final product. I've got about 1 1/2 coats of mud up and moved the cabinets in place to make the garage usable again AND because I wanted to see this space come alive

A couple of cabinets are missing adjustable feet and by the time those arrive from Amazon.com I'll be able to finish the mud and prime / paint. (Behind the cabinets got sanded and primed just so I didnt have to worry about pulling the cabs out and doing it later.) Once they are installed I can move my stuff back in and begin the great organization I've been dreaming so much about.

My outfeed/assembly table is a former NY State Dept of Education Labratory Table

The view of the back end of the garage. Much easier to see the layout now there isnt a pile of **** in the center!

Final one, just for kicks.

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So next up is:
- Finish mudding
- Prime / Paint
- Install missing leveling feet and fit the cabinets
- Install MDF countertops
- Move everything back in and organize!
- Plan and execute dust collection and extend my french cleats

Questions...
I have to work out my designs for the dust collector and compressor enclousures. Anyone have any tips or pics of what theyve done?

- Jon

madoc1 · Jul 23, 2016

nice work area. any shots of the house rehab? will sure be following and a pretty area to live in also.

jim

jon_beer · Jul 24, 2016

Madoc1 - here is a little teaser of our second building that my fiancee and I just finished. Its a 4 family, built in 1890. Along with 2 or 3 other guys (plumber, electrician, helper) we did most of the work ourselves. Restoring/rebuilding the cornice on the front of the house was at the time the most complicated carpentry project I'd tackled on my own. It took about a month from the initial planning stages to final finish. I'm very proud of it!

Here's a before and after:

The whole house - we were still finishing up the first floor at the time.

Ill try and dig up some interior shots, too.

LXCam · Jul 24, 2016

What a great house and project you have there. Keep up that level of craftsmanship and it'll truly pay off!

theoldwizard1 · Jul 24, 2016

WOW !! That ginger bread is a knock out !!

You might get some more work in the neighborhood !

turbowoodworker · Jul 24, 2016

Wow. That is ambitious but you knocked it out of the park!

atxgsa · Jul 24, 2016

Great work! Subscribing to this thread just to follow along.

jon_beer · Jul 24, 2016

Thanks everyone for your nice comments!

Made some progress in the shop.

Yesterday Nadene and I spent the day doing a coat of traditional lime wash on the brick wall. Her gardening area will be on this wall so it was extra special for her. Limewash is a really cool material and we chose that instead of thinned out latex because it 1.) is historically accurate and 2.) it strengthens the brick. By the time I came down this morning it was already starting to get really hard.

Today Nadene helped me get her gardening area up and running! The main part was hanging the last cabinet - an 8 foot long upper with glass doors.

The sucker weighs in at around 100+ lbs - its 3/4" Birch ply carcass AND glass doors!
To be sure it wouldnt go anywhere I made a double french cleat to hang it. Two cleats got screwed every 4 inches with a healthy bead of PL3 on the back and the cleats mounted to the brick were screwed every 8" with 2" white Tapcon. It took 3 of us to lift it into place - and I may connect the cabinet to the wall cleats tomorrow just for safe measure. Maybe even add some small hidden angle bracketing at the top.

While this may not seem consequential it was the last enormous thing taking up floor space while waiting to be installed.

Tomorrow I'll level and screw in all the lower cabs and install my countertops.

On a side note I just bought some new toys i'll need for some upcoming jobs...a 2 HP Grizzly motor for my bandsaw (going to be resawing 6x9" Red Oak beams for 2 sets of carriage house door parts,) and a set of Rocklers Clamp-It corner jigs. They are too pricy for some blow mold plastic parts IMHO but they will help putting together cabinets much easier. I have a quick job starting this week - media center and some bookcases to match. Should help me bang them out! :rocker:

A little Hudson Valley treat tonight.

Jon

oldironfarmer · Jul 24, 2016

WOW! Great work :thumbup:

Very interesting space, and you are really making it usable. I too cringed when you covered the beautiful brick but understand it's got to be usable.

I'm enjoying your thread.

jb3 · Jul 25, 2016

Awesome job on that house, looking forward to further updates

(pretty lady too, but you knew that i bet) :bounce:

jon_beer · Aug 29, 2016

Hey everyone, sorry for the lack of updates for a while. I was actually finishing the garage and starting to work in it!

So since we last spoke...

I got pretty much everything finished and then the garage really started to fill up.

I mentioned I'm making some carriage house doors for a client - 2 sets to be exact - out of reclaimed red oak. My client delivered 4 or 5 6x9" beams to use. At 13 feet long they weigh almost 200 lbs each!

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In these pics I was working on a media center cabinet job - one long horizontal with a charred top and two tall bookcases. All out of maple ply that I sealed and stained. Had to do a lot of tests to get the finish right - maple is really blotchy but I found that a 3:2 coat of Denatured alcohol : Zinnser SealCoat before using a Minwax Gel Stain did the trick.

The top is reclaimed fir that is charred in the shou sugi ban style.

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Wiping on and off the gel stain..what a pain in the ***. Next time I'm going to spray lacquer based finishes with transtint thru my HVLP gun. No more wiping!

Here is the finished lower cap installed.

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A few other miscellaneous updates. Got the jointer up and running - its an Atlas Model 6000. For my first jointer I'm pretty happy - although I'm realizing that after putting it together I wish it had an outfeed table adjustment. I think this is a common feature on many jointers made after 1954.

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Also got a clamp rack together! Since taking this pic I've actually made a second one because I just need more clamps! Does anyone know of a good source for Bessey K Body Bevo clamps? I have a few price alerts on CamelCamelCamel but it seems like I just have to bite the bullet and fork over the cash.

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Ive also started on bandsaw reassembly. I upgraded the motor to a 2HP 220v Grizzly motor. I'll need to resaw that red oak for the carriage house doors. I also added the Delta mobile base, which I'm relatively happy with. Its not an award winning design by a long shot but for $50 you get what you pay for.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/LF5F4c]

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Here is the upper wheel cover - part of the custom 2 tone paint job i've been giving it.

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And finally - I'm wrapping this desk up today for a client. Here's a pic of the dry fit. The legs are tapered on one side and nested into the 2" L angle iron. The angle iron is mortised into the table. The legs will be held on with a single brass bolt and the top and legs will have the shou sugi ban charred finish also. All made from 200 yr old reclaimed fir.

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Sorry for the pic heavy update but thanks for sticking by!

Cheers everyone, :beer:

J

sakurama · Aug 30, 2016

Whoa! How did I miss this?

I love the sketches, the plans, the building... Subscribed

Gregor

Bigdukaaa · Aug 30, 2016

great work, also nice to see someone on here so closed to me. I am in Cortlandt Manor.

jon_beer · Aug 30, 2016

@Gregor Thanks man! I know you've been seeing a bit on Instagram (@Jon_Beer is my handle) but thanks for stopping in! I can share a lot more here. I've got some more sketches for the garage I need to scan and get up here. I need a larger assembly table - something that's 4 x 8 feet total but partially collapsable. Planning on using my existing outfeed table as the base for it. Way back I thought maybe it would be height adjustable but threw that idea out. Too complicated and it would take too much time to build it now.

@Bigdukaaa Thanks! Cool man I always wondered where the people from the Hudson Valley were hiding on GJ. Do you have a build thread?

Bob Heine · Aug 30, 2016

Jon, the carriage house is looking great and the restoration work is amazing! In the late 1960s we lived on the other side of the river in our little tract home on the hill above New Hamburg. I dreamed of owning one of the abandoned Victorians in the Hudson Valley. Just couldn't scrape up the $20,000 they were asking for an uninhabitable shell on 2 acres.

On Edge · Aug 30, 2016

This is going to be another epic thread. I have found some of the Bessey K body clamps at Home Depot to be about the cheapest. Problem is they are very limited on the sizes. Pretty much 24" and 50". I love the sketches that you have done and the restoration on that house. I would love to see more of your restoration on the house shots. Thanks for sharing.

jon_beer · Aug 31, 2016

@Bob Heine Thanks for stopping by! No kidding - what a small world! Well you can still by a shell here for 20k if you're interested. We got our big *** house for a great price - 7000 sq feet for the price of an inexpensive single family home.

@On_Edge Thanks man! Yeah I've seen those K Body at Home Depot and get frustrated at the sizes. Wish they'd carry the 31 inch ones there. I may need some 50" clamps for these upcoming carriage house doors...

I'll post some more restoration photos for sure. I'm in the process of doing repairs on one of our balconies including rebuilding one of the long corbels.

Jon

Old-Soul · Aug 31, 2016

Love the house as well as your rental property.

On a scale of 1 through 10 though, how haunted would you say these buildings are? Haha.

Shame to cover up the brick but it's clear you need the functionality of your garage over the form!

Subbed.

Graham

jon_beer · Aug 31, 2016

Graham, Thanks! Actually we have no reports of haunting! After two years we are lucky to have a pretty quiet (supernaturally speaking) house.

So you guys asked to see some more restoration pics.

Nadene and I just finished touching up one of the units in the building we live in. It's a one bedroom - took these today after we finished everything.

This unit is a one bedroom on the ground level with a wrap around porch. The round portion of the room is the turret.

It goes all 3 floors (we live on the 3rd fl and my office is in that room.)

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Here are some misc pics from the rental building of corbel restoration / fabrication and sash repair that we did. I had to remake 3 or 4 corbels and repair a bunch more. We typically use a two part product made by Abatron - a wood hardner called Liquid Wood followed by Wood Epox - a playdoh kind of substance that can be molded to any shape and is tool/machine workable. Its seriously amazing stuff. I've fixed alllll kinds of weird and impossible things with it. Say you have a spot in a plaster wall between trim and cabinets that couldnt be mudded or repaired....make sure all the loose parts are out and knead a batch of Wood Epox up and stuff it in there. Mold it with something flat and sand/paint it the next day. For smaller repairs we use regular bondo as well.

I dont have any pics of the new corbels when I was making them. They are 4 laminated layers that I templated and cut with my jigsaw! (Didnt have the bandsaw yet.) It was nerve wracking work but I'm really proud of how they came out.

Scabbing in some new wood.

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Shaping with Bondo

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The collection

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All outdoor wood received at least one coat of oil based primer before going up. If you can do surfaces that will be hidden after install its even better.

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The sashes on the 3rd floor of this same building were in really bad shape. We took them all out at once (something like 18 windows...36 sashes) and worked them all at the same time. It was super overwhelming to do it all at once and not a great idea in hindsight. Its really tedious work...

Round after round of bondo/sanding/replacing wooden parts. THEN and only then do you get to prime, paint, and reglaze. THEN and only then can you install them! Did I say it was tedious work?

Replacing rotten parts.

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Hand coped muntin (the divider in a window between separate panes of glass.

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Every woodworker knows you cant stretch wood. This sash was a heavy 1/8th low on one side. So I made a bondo form and screeded it on! Not idea but It worked out.

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Last but not least..these are some teaser pics. This is the abandoned house next door to our rental. Probably around 8,000 sq ft. Has some beautiful parts and some reallly fucked up parts. I'm talking like hole where the roof and wall meet thats 12" in diameter... I snuck in one day when the bank was there doing maintenance. (Bank owned property.)

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Thats all for now...tomorrow I hope to get the bandsaw all back together and running! Shop could use a cleaning too as I get ready to mill the oak for the carriage house doors.

Thanks for stopping in.

Jon

wasfast · Aug 31, 2016

The old houses like this are fabulous to see renovated. Certainly a bigger challenge than most will take on to fix all the issues. The sheer scale with 8000 ft2 is overwhelming. I've build new homes and remodeled plenty in my time but even I don't think I could tackle that Bank Owned property next door.

Riley · Sep 1, 2016

Great work saving these lovely buildings!

Since you don't seem to be shy about using modern material science to complete projects, the wood boat builders/restorers use a "penetrating epoxy", "Smiths" or "Git Rot" to repair in place items with dry rot or possibly termite damage.

The trick is to treat with something to kill off what ever caused the damage, then hit it with the penetrating epoxy before significant material removal. This has the affect of stabilizing and encapsulating all the remaining cellulose fiber in place.

Then, any remaining space in the piece can be filled with a thickened epoxy using wood flour which is easier to sand for a finish. Unlike bondo, it will never dry out or need replacing. It creates repairs stronger than the original material.

I've used this process with good success on window frames and siding repairs on a 1942 cottage. While the marine store products are available, they are sometime measured in "boat bucks". I've used a place out of New Hampshire with good results for the epoxy, epoxyproducts.com. Not the highest tech website, but tons of info and good products.

Hope you find this interesting and perhaps you will have the opportunity to apply it during your extensive projects.

Bears Fan · Sep 3, 2016

Awesome work! I'm subscribing to see whats next :thumbup:

jon_beer · Sep 12, 2016

Thanks everyone!
Riley I'll have to check that stuff out!

Sorry for the lack of updates - I've got a bit of progress in the garage worthing sharing. I have the bandsaw back together and I've been using it to remake some corbels for our house.

https://flic.kr/p/LcN2j6
Almost finished. 30+ inches long! You can see a little bondo on there to finesse everything together before it gets primed + painted.

https://flic.kr/p/M9XALF

I'm away for the week in Copenhagen, Denmark!
This isnt exactly my garage but I thought these photos would interest everyone here and they are somewhat related. I've been collecting pics of the building doors here - they are incredible.

Here are a few of my favorites.

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Copenhagen (or København as the Danes say) is beautiful, clean and full of green spaces. This is the park near where I'm staying.

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There are fragments of American culture mixed in here...this was in Røskilde, about 30 min west of Copenhagen. Building for scale! :-D

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In Roskilde there is the Viking Ship Museum, where 5 ships were excavated and pieced back together. Not only that but they rebuilt all 5 with the same hand tools they used back then. (The Viking empire was from 700-1100 AD)

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Bending a plank onto the side of the boat. They used green oak that is split rather than sawn - the wood splits along its natural fibers and resists its natural movement and retains maximum strength.

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A really cool homemade cam style clamp.

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Using a story stick to ensure the correct placement of each plank. The carpenter used a string pulled taut from stern to bow as a reference point.

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An image from their beautiful workshop. No power tools. No table saw, no bandsaw, no sanders. All hand work - axes, adzes, planes, chisels, bow drills, spoon drills, spokeshaves only!!! Amazing.

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I also got to visit the Hand Tool Museum - a former trade school in Roskilde.
Plane Till:

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The biggest tap and die set I've ever seen. Most likely used for making wooden threads.

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Ajustable · Sep 16, 2016

Great thread, even get a history lesson reading along. Thanks!!!

mitchtr25068 · Sep 16, 2016

Love the house and your work! And love the newburgh beacon revival over the past 5-plus years. We're two exits north up the thruway in woodstock; nearly neighbors!

Bib Overalls · Sep 16, 2016

Make time to do the Tuborg and Carlsberg brewery tours. You can do both in one day if you pace yourself. As I recall both are accessible by trolley car which I strongly recommend.

1900 Carriage House Shop Renovation

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