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Ryobi P118 charger dead?

reader2580

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I have a Ryobi P118 charger. My lithium batteries last about two cuts on my saw before dead. If I charge the batteries on my car charger they last just fine.

I assume my P118 charger is dead?
 
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pauls_workshop

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I have a Ryobi P118 charger. My lithium batteries last about two cuts on my saw before dead. If I charge the batteries on my car charger they last just fine.

I assume my P118 charger is dead?

One thing I've noticed on the Ryobi lithium batteries and chargers: The capability of the charger to charge and quality of the charge is not the same across any and all the chargers. The fast chargers I find are not as robust at charging an older battery well. The slower black chargers or the car one are much better at slow charging older batteries. I try to only use the black slower charger, not the 30 minute ones.

The topic of how lithium batteries fail is another whole thread, but basically one or more of the cells inside will start to lose the ability to take a charge, OR they might be fine but just didn't charge or discharge at the same rate such that their voltage is out of range of the other cells in the pack. One trick is to take a "dead" battery apart and check the voltage on each cell in the pack. There is a tight range they must all be in or the charger will detect a failure and not charge the pack anymore, even if it is still fine. This is the major problem the Makita Lithium packs had years back when brand new packs would die soon and not recharge. The batteries were fine but the Makita system couldn't work right to charge good batteries slightly out of a very tight range in their design.

The black Ryobi chargers seem to be better at providing a recharge for cells not in the perfect range as the fast chargers or to charge cells a little worn out. What you can do is charge up just one cell in a pack (very very carefully) until the voltages are all within 0.1 v of each other. Then put back together and see if it will charge. Usually it will. But there is a point after about 5 years when the Lithium cells will degrade and not take a charge or discharge at the same rate as the other cells in the pack. When that happens, you must either buy a new pack OR you can just replace one or two bad cells, but this is dangerous with Lithium cells and not recommended for most people. I've done it. Best way is with a spot welder to do it as Lithium cells will explode if they get too hot and start a fire. You can bump up the charge on a given cell using another 18v battery pack! Use some wires and just touch that cell for a second or two, multiple times. Do it outside not indoors. Wear a full face shield when doing it to be safe about it. It will spark slightly when you touch. Recheck voltage, repeat. May take several hits to charge it up. If others are too high, drain them a bit to match the voltages across all cells to a very tight range, 3 v is good but all within +/- 0.1 v of each other. I've got a few "dead" packs to work fine again for several years of use after just resetting them once when a cell got out of range. They got out of range in the first place when charged on the yellow fast charger, which stopped charging them up after a while and said they were bad because out of range on a cell or two. - Paul
 
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Packard V8

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You mention the older black chargers. Those I have are for the NiCad. For some reason, I thought they were not suitable for the LiOn batteries.

FWIW, the 40-volt Ryobi chargers go like popcorn. I'm on my third one now and would never buy another Ryobi with this system.

jack vines
 

pauls_workshop

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You mention the older black chargers. Those I have are for the NiCad. For some reason, I thought they were not suitable for the LiOn batteries.

FWIW, the 40-volt Ryobi chargers go like popcorn. I'm on my third one now and would never buy another Ryobi with this system.

jack vines

Jack, I've not had any problems with my 40v batteries or chargers yet. I've had them a year now and use them alot. I don't know why you've had such bad luck with those. I am wondering if you may have an electrical problem of some sort wherever you are plugging those in. Maybe try one at another person's house?

But they would be subject to the same battery cell imbalance things as above. ALL Lithium Ion batteries from ALL manufacturers are subject to these same things. - Paul
 
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reader2580

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The p118 charger is the one I have. It is slow, but the batteries don't seem to be charged after 12 hours.

P113 is the model that is recalled.
 

pauls_workshop

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The p118 charger is the one I have. It is slow, but the batteries don't seem to be charged after 12 hours.

P113 is the model that is recalled.

Well, the p118 design is OK. The batteries may be the source of problem but the car charger can handle them. Or perhaps your P118 really is bad. That is surely possible. P117 is the replacement for the P113, both of which I am not fond of at all. It is always better to slowww charge a lithium ion battery. The fast chargers just are more likely to cause an imbalance in individual cell voltage as one cell may charge at a faster rate then the others. Then after a number of cycles, that cell imbalance can get so large that the charger will think the battery pack is now "dead" and won't charge it anymore, as the cells' voltages have too great a different range. Then you have to go in and rebalance them and all is good again after usually for a few more years of use. - Paul
 
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pauls_workshop

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My p118 will not keep my nicads charged. it will charge them, but then they go dead if they sit in it too long.

Hmmm, that is interesting. They are supposed to have auto drain and recharge circuits in the chargers and I've not had any problems with those circuits. Perhaps yours is bad and draining too much. Try a different charger. - paul
 

pauls_workshop

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I have two chargers and they both do it. It's annoying for sure. I should just buck up and buy another lithium

Well the newer Lithium + full size or half size batteries are great. HD will have these on sale quite often in a two pack. The older chargers made just for the NiCad are much slower charging than the newer Lithium chargers and may do better on older NiCad batteries. Even the black P118 is a "faster" charger than the older NiCad chargers were, just slower than the yellow ones. - Paul
 

mrvm

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My p118 will not keep my nicads charged. it will charge them, but then they go dead if they sit in it too long.

Environmentally discard those old Ryobi NiCads, skip any promotions for the compact batteries and upgrade to the full-size 18V lithum or better yet the 2pk high-capacity 4 Ah P122 for $79-99. Make sure you only use a lithium charger and this lithium battery will rejuvenate every blue 18V Ryobi tool in your arsenal. More power, more torque and more run-time.
 
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Bacon!

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A couple things you can do is pop open the charger and inspect it for failed components. Look for charred resistors, vented capacitors especially.

The other thing is hook up a multimeter and monitor charge voltage till the point of rapid charge termination. Both chargers should get the cells up to a sum of (n) cell x 4.2V/cell = 21.0V (in the case of 18V rated packs). However if it doesn't, that doesn't necessarily mean the charger is bad, could be that it's better at detecting a pack with a bad cell in it than the car charger and terminating rapid charge earlier as a safety precaution.

Due to this, if your battery packs have a good amount of wear-hours on them, I'd get a new battery since you're due for one anyway, then see if the charger does a poor job on it too.
 

CottondaleKid

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Where can i find a wiring diagram or parts list for the p118 charger. I have one with a blown input fuse and MOV 1 ? CAPACITOR
 

Bacon!

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Where can i find a wiring diagram or parts list for the p118 charger. I have one with a blown input fuse and MOV 1 ? CAPACITOR
With some exceptions, a schematic and parts list may not be needed to fix it, more a matter of your skills, either slight reverse engineering, or visual cues, or being able to post very good pictures.

If you meant MOV1 might be a capacitor, probably not, probably a Metal Oxide Varistor, which is typically a colored disc shaped component put across the AC hot and neutral (if only one of them) to provide some surge protection, at least until a sufficiently large surge(s) damage it.

While it would be good to examine the other charger components, it is possible that this MOV failure is all that's wrong, that it created a short circuit that blew the fuse.

If that is the case you could test by clipping or desoldering it off the PCB, put a new fuse in, and see if the new fuse blows.

It is also possible that enough of a surge got through the charger to damage something else. In a charger common components that might suffer surge damage include transistor(s) or diodes. If a new fuse blows then I would test any of those on the board.

It will work fine to charge batteries without that MOV (if that is the only problem), until the next power surge comes along at least, so you can test it.

If a new fuse doesn't blow and it works to charge then hunt down a new varistor from an electronics supply house or ebay. If you can read the markings on the one present then you can go by that to pick a new one but the electrical values on one aren't critical, except at a minimum you want it to have a voltage rating a bit higher than the normal line voltage in your region, for example 120VAC in the US, but you probably want one rated above 200VAC at least. The less the MOV is rated above that, the better the protection but the more likely it will blow again, sooner.

Otherwise there is a joules surge rating but generally you just pick a replacement with the right voltage trip point and the same physical size including lead spacing. You can go larger for more protection if there is room for that... up to you. Manufacturers can guess what the best value vs build cost is over a big production run but when it comes to an owner replacing a component, it's only a few cents cost to upgrade it.

Digikey (or ebay if you have a month to wait on a part from china) is a good place to buy things like this because under a few ounces weight they will ship cheaper via USPS if you pick that at checkout.

If I went off on a tangent and am wrong, post links to good high resolution pics of the charger board, at a minimum top-down and bottom-up at 90' angle to the PCB to be able to trace the circuit a bit.
 
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6PTsocket

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Where can i find a wiring diagram or parts list for the p118 charger. I have one with a blown input fuse and MOV 1 ? CAPACITOR
MOV stands for metal oxide varistor. It is a resistor whose resistance varies with temperature. It is not a capacitor.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 

Bacon!

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^ You might be thinking of a thermistor. An MOV's threshold voltage might drift a little with temperature changes, but they are not in series with a circuit and their resistance is intended to be as low as possible above the threshold voltage, not vary with temperature if it can be helped.

Thermistor vs Varistor
 
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shutterbug

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If you'd like me to start a new thread, I will. But I'm also having trouble with two P118 chargers.

How can I test the charger output? I plug the charger in, the Red light indicates power is on, but putting a multimeter on the + and - post yields no results (0 volts).

There are two metal contacts or switches (in addition to the +/- posts) on the charger. Does either or both need to be depressed to activate a charge? I haven't found a way to manage all four contact points with two hands.

Separate but related - is it possible for a charger to kill a battery?

Last month two P118 chargers would not come out of Testing mode to charge my original P102 battery. I bought a new P190 - same thing - both chargers stayed in Testing mode. Back to Home Depot. The rental department rep told me the NEW battery was defective - I got a refund.

It just seems weird that a) two chargers would go bad or b) a new battery would be defective.

Appreciate advice on how to test the chargers or if you've come across chargers killing batteries. Thanks!
Frank
 

shutterbug

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No thanks, I knew this problem would take a while to solve, so I bought a new battery & charger combo. I won't let the old chargers touch the new battery until I figure this out. Thoughtful of you, thanks!
 
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reader2580

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I started this thread years ago. I have now obtained two new P118 chargers with Ryobi tools. I will probably send all three P118 chargers to the electronics recycler as I have no idea which ones are good and which one is bad.

I haven't used any of the new P118 chargers because I got a better Ryobi charger with a set of higher capacity batteries I bought.
 
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