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Astro Automotive Focused Tap/Die set made from Japanese alloy - feedback

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Astro_Pneumatic_Tools

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UPDATE: 7/27/17: Tap and Die set is available on the market, tap and drill sets are being put together in our warehouse now and should be out soon.

UPDATE: 4/11/17 Set has changed greatly since inception, see latest pages for info. Set to be released in July 2017. Thanks for helping to put together a smart set without a bunch of fluff added, GJ. I will be sending a handful of samples to GJ members (and others who have helped with this) who have already expressed interest in getting an early test on these.


A lot of users have been kindly hounding me about a tap & die set we've had in development over a year now that uses a Japanese tool steel alloy chosen by us that we ship to Taiwan where it is CNC machined then imported here.

Simply, since as many of you know we manufacture tools for many different brands, releasing a 40pc, 75pc ect. sets under the Astro label is not an option in the foreseeable future.

After clicking on the SAE/Metric thread pitch thread on here recently, I've started thinking about how few thread pitches are used on vehicles - and how the dies in a set like this for a mechanic are essentially thread chasers and only apply to studs and bolts that are worth saving.

With that in mind, what would be possible under Astro is a smaller set focused on auto repair. It would make the price entry point much easier to swallow, and still provide top quality taps and dies.

To me, this would include:

4 different fluted screw extractors (made from same alloy)

Metric Taps:
M4x0.7
M5x0.8
M6x1.0
M8x1.25
M9x1.25 (damn you, brake calipers)
M10x1.5
M10x1.25
M12x1.25

Metric Dies:
M6x1.0
M8x1.25
M10x1.5
M10x1.25
M12x1.75
M12x1.5
M12x1.25

Hex die holder, two different adjustable tap holders, high tooth count ratcheting holder wrench

SAE would be the another kit, with:

SAE Taps:
10-24 (or 10-32)
1/4-20
5/16-18
5/16-24
3/8-16
3/8-24
7/16-14
7/16-20

SAE Dies:
1/4-20
5/16-18
5/16-24
3/8-16
3/8-24
7/16-14
7/16-20

Open to everyone's impression on this. Do you want the 40-75pcs only, or does a mechanic's set make sense?

I could even send some samples to GJ users to field test.
 

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Buckgnarly

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Auto only would be a great kit, as I don't think I have ever seen a purely auto based one and the only time I use SAE is fabbing stuff. I'd rather spend extra money on a COMPLETE metric than a mixed set. I would also MUCH rather pay for more tap/dies than extractors, especially fluted. I have used them and they have their place, but hate when they are included in tap/die sets and I know they are included in cost. Not really keen on ratcheting holders either, though I cannot say I have used them a lot.

Is that a drill in that pic, or tap holder? For auto use, my emphasis would be a small head on that holder before ratcheting, though I do see how ratcheting may be handy in tight spots....

I would love to sample whatever, however....:evil:
 
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slow_mow

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I think that is a great idea. The only thing I would like to see are 1/2 taps and dies in the SAE Kit, then it would be perfect.
 
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Astro_Pneumatic_Tools

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Buckgnarly said:
Auto only would be a great kit, as I don't think I have ever seen a purely auto based one and the only time I use SAE is fabbing stuff. I'd rather spend extra money on a COMPLETE metric than a mixed set. I would also MUCH rather pay for more tap/dies than extractors, especially fluted. I have used them and they have their place, but hate when they are included in tap/die sets and I know they are included in cost. Not really keen on ratcheting holders either, though I cannot say I have used them a lot.

Is that a drill in that pic, or tap holder? For auto use, my emphasis would be a small head on that holder before ratcheting, though I do see how ratcheting may be handy in tight spots....

I would love to sample whatever, however....:evil:
Click to expand...

It's definitely a power drill, not the holder. The holder is much smaller. The thing with a 2 arm ratcheting wrench is you can still use it as a non ratcheting. You just dont go back and forth.

slow_mow said:
I think that is a great idea. The only thing I would like to see are 1/2 taps and dies in the SAE Kit, then it would be perfect.
Click to expand...

As in 1/2-13 and 1/2-20?
Noted, just may be limited in set size since the Metric set is already comparable to the SAE in # of pieces not having a 14mm
 
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engineer2

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I would offer the metric and SAE sets separately. Some people don't work on the old stuff, and some people work exclusively on the old stuff.
Some of the old American iron uses NPT taps, but those are easy to find, and it's unusual to need one.

Consider adding or offering popular spark plug taps or re-threaders.

Check with the Mercedes experts. I think they use some oddball metric taps (M10x1) on occasion.
 
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Astro_Pneumatic_Tools

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engineer2 said:
I would offer the metric and SAE sets separately. Some people don't work on the old stuff, and some people work exclusively on the old stuff.
Some of the old American iron uses NPT taps, but those are easy to find, and it's unusual to need one.

Consider adding or offering popular spark plug taps or re-threaders.

Check with the Mercedes experts. I think they use some oddball metric taps (M10x1) on occasion.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, I would only carry them separate. The whole point is the mechanic would be buying 95% what they need for what they work on, not fine thread BSP and 6-32 dies ect.

I don't have the tooling to make sprark plug re-threaders at this location. Also, they are driven differently (inside the recessed cylinder head) so dont pair with the holder and ratchet, and those usually come with heli-coil type inserts. It's sort of its own category in my eyes.
 
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WhoWhatNow

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I'm not a professional so my opinion may be different than the pros. I would agree that separate SAE and metric would be a good way to go. Possibly even just a tap set. I would like to see1/2-13 and 1/2-20 taps included but that is more for fabrication work vs. auto repair.
 
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engineer2

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Bottoming taps are common and necessary for engine rebuilding, but that may beyond the scope of a general purpose kit.
 
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anndel

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Chris, I agree with your Auto only set and would buy the metric set for now as I've used mostly so far M10x1.25 then some M12x1.25 and M6x1.0 (not on a car) and yes mostly for thread chasers fixing other people's cross threadings.
 
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slow_mow

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Astro_Pneumatic_Tools said:
As in 1/2-13 and 1/2-20?
Noted, just may be limited in set size since the Metric set is already comparable to the SAE in # of pieces not having a 14mm
Click to expand...

Yes, 1/2-13 and 1/2-20, I have ran into quite a few occasions where I needed 1/2 taps and dies on older vehicles. Cleaning up old lug studs and nuts is one example.
 
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woody 73

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I like the following concept for the simple reason that like you said the large sets of 40 and 75 is not an option so why not a simple set like the following only in metric of the most used sizes:

http://www.lowes.com/pd/IRWIN-HANSON-13-Piece-SAE-Tap-and-Die-Set/50137714

So one set of small maybe 5 or 6 pc. set.
Next size up again 5 or 6 pc. set.
Then maybe a large size set of 4 or 5 pc. set.

Or you could add the dies and remove the drill bits.

All kinds of combinations but keep it simple to keep the costs down.
 
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T45

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I concurr with a basic setup along these lines would be nice.

m3-m12, +with fine pitch in m8 and m10.

The drills and fine/extra-fine taps are more useful than other extras

re: Handles/ratcheting action -- you need the option to backcut when working with aluminum, which is important for some applications like blocks, casings, housings, and aftermarket accessories etc.

just something to keep in mind in the big picture. also, use a finish that is compatible with aluminum/alloys. some like black oxide are problematic.
 

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Mastermind

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I like your idea, although I very rarely use anything smaller than 6-1.0. The 14's would make the set more desirable than the tiny sizes. I use my Irwin set once or twice a week, use my Lang chasers about once a day. On an average day I work on anything from customers daily drivers to wreckers and equipment. Mechanical, body, paint, fabrication. And we tow and scrap and run a junkyard. I would put these and anything else you need to test thru the ringer. Got any new drill bits you need tested? I've had to start hiding mine because everyone at work destroys them and sawzall blades.
 
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ttpete

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Mgnu said:
I dunno, I sure would like a very complete metric and SAE set. With priority to metric. Why is this not an option, price point?
Click to expand...

I'm not going to comment on these sets until I see one, because it wouldn't be fair.

I use taps far more than dies because most of the fasteners, both bolts and studs I use have rolled threads that are stronger than die cut ones. I personally will buy new taps for a project that I do, and then when done, use them for cleaning out previously tapped holes. I have always used bright ground HSS American made taps because they are always precision ground and very sharp.
 
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Finky198

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Regardless of how many set I have there always the one tap the you need, but don't have ... so I'm in the crowd of complete sets of metric and standard I'm using snap on 41pc sets both std and met mainly for the warranty...

I've always felt they should keep tap and die should be separate from the extractors
I don't need or want them and if I really did i'd buy a separate set...
 
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chevy302dz

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While I personally would only want a complete set, I do believe that an auto focused set has a market at the right price point. A 1/4-28 tap and die would be a necessary addition though.
 
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bcradio

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Just curious

Why can you not offer the large sets under your own name?

What other brands will the large sets be offered under?
 
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justme-

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Seperate auto minded seta would be good. I'm a power equipment mechanic in a rental company, so in a day I could work on a chainsaw, hot dog steamer, carpet cleaner, man lift, and a skid steer all before lunch.

Metric set looks good, sae is far more useful in my application, buy drop the #10, very little actual need in my application or that I've ever seen in automotive. #12 would save me often,but 10 is unneeded. Drop the ez outs too. Great tool, buy not in a tap set. Apples and oranges. Pair them with the correct size drill bits of quality steel and you have something, but not in a tap set

1/2 sae would be great,and the 5mm is great. Ratcheting holders are "candy", add taps/dies in place of that for the value. Chasing is fine with a ratcheting and some tight spots they are a life saver, but remember inspire of the idea these sets are for and most mechanics actions, taps/dies are for cutting threads not chasing....they can easily damage threads while chasing. Cutting requires back clearing so ratcheting looses the advantage.

Also if they could all be bottoming taps or semi-bottoming rather that through style...if you're marketing with chasing in mind remwmber the majority of holes we chase are blind...through taps often fail completely for me in that situation, not getting enough threads.

I agree skip spark plug taps...they are plentiful.on the market and, no offence intended to others reading, unless you know what you're doing they cause more damage then they fix unless back taps are used.
I've helicoiled several heads after someone "fixed" it with a plug tap.

Also, how about a case that is from the larger set being used so we can put out other taps/dies we may have or need in the same box? Would really help people like me...I'm thinking about a pick a nut type cabinet for my taps now as they are in a small plastic box loose currently.
 
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Ign

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What uses 10-24? For that matter you could probably delete 10-32; as a machinist I love it & build tons of **** w it, but don't recall much on a vehicle.

I also don't know about 1/2-13 but I'd do 1/2-20 for lug studs. Honestly I'd do 9-16-18 too for "old" 3/4 ton lug studs and 9/16 u-bolts common on heavy duty trucks. But honestly most of the crowd here doesn't own a Dana 60 or anything w u-bolts.

and don't bother w #12 - super old school! If someone needs that they should order individually from a machinist supply (I put my $ where my mouth is as I did just that when building my 4 stroke in school from OLD prints)
 
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Olafur

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In the repair field I find my self using taps quite a bit, dies - hardly ever.
Many cheap sets are OK for cleaning out treads but usually the accessories are plain junk.

I would like the Automotive set without dies, and just some good robust method of using one of my many ratchets to turn the taps. (tap sockets or adjustable adaptor to 1/4" -3/8" square drive)

:3gears:
 
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Know Wosad

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engineer2 said:
Bottoming taps are common and necessary for engine rebuilding, but that may beyond the scope of a general purpose kit.
Click to expand...
That could be a seperate set or two stamped "master engine rebuild set" but, in reality, to chase threads as mechanics do, a bottoming tap is all the'mechanics" sets would need to begin with.the guys who weld up-plug-drill rethread are WAY beyond what the majority of parts changers get into anyway.Bad hole ? Get the parts dept to order a new____-- and bolt it on.
Fab race/hotrod guys who build, drill and tap from scratch already have what they need in terms of machinists quality tapping tools.That's a different market altogether.
 
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Astro_Pneumatic_Tools

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bcradio said:
bump for answers
Click to expand...

I'm on it, guys.

Appreciate all the answers. I've confirmed we can set up for these finer/more custom thread pitches.

So far, I'm seeing:

- Forget the screw extractors
- 1/2-20 please (I see where die would be useful, not sure about a tap unless for fab work. People want 1/2-13 or 1/2-20 taps?)
- Drop the 10-24 / 10-32
- Add 1/4-28 tap?
- Fine M8 (M8x1.0) tap
- Focus on an offering of taps over dies.
- Avoid coatings that would not work well with aluminum

* Regarding bottoming taps. All taps above 1/4" will be taper plug type. So not pointed, but also not a straight cut-off bottoming tap because of manufacturing process restrictions (unless me made A LOT of these sets).

bcradio, in regards to your question. I'm afraid I can't discuss private label program details :evil:
 
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bwringer

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I'm pretty sure I've seen M12X1.75 in Euro/American suspension components. Not completely sure on that.

- The metric kit seems great. I'd very likely be in for one. I have no need for SAE, so separating the kits seems like a great idea.

- Any way to make the SAE and Metric cases lock together or something would appeal to the completionists...

- You might look at including extra taps for the M6X1.0 and M8X1.25 ...? These are the most-used sizes in my experience, and it's nice to have a backup when one goes dull. No need for extra dies -- these get used far less.

- Maybe include a thread file? Thread gauge?

- Include room in the case for extras -- taps, dies, tap wrenches, tapping lube? A nice useful case with someplace for all the extras would really set this apart.

- One add-on I'd love to see is a set of good drill bits sized correctly for metric tapping. Maybe not include it, but this would be VERY appealing as an add-on. I hate using the nearest inch drill bit instead of the correct metric size.

- I agree -- don't include extractors.
 
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Ign

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I'd do M12x1.75 over M4 all day long. I also know I've seen it but can't remember where now.

Leaf-style thread pitch gages in fractional and metric would be amazing, but maybe cost prohibitive in the grand scheme of the kit.
 
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turfgnome

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One thing rare in a tap set now days is to keep the case small, we have enough **** in our tool boxes. Taps should not be stored loosely in the toolbox so if you keep your case small enough not to take up too much room maybe it would be easier to keep everything together.

also concentrate on the metric as most guys that work on older stuff have a decent sae set. A good metric tap set is hard to find without taking a mortgage out to buy it.

also I disagree with mechanics all being parts changers, I own an outdoor power equipment shop and keep a full machine shop in the back running. We do not make parts but we do fix anything we can if it would save the customer money and downtime. But that said I can not remember the last time I used a die for a repair, most of the time when that is needed it would be better off to just replace the part.
 
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