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The Rouster Indy Roadster

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cornfield customs

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Oct 19, 2012
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115
Location
Milford OHIO
Another project we started not to long ago (November 27 2016) is this AJ Watson styled Indy roadster project. It is closely based on the watson, just widened 4 " in the front, 8" in the rear and stretched 10' in the cockpit to make it a two seater for the street. we are building the full chassis, and body in house. i will keep the typing to a minimum since everyone likes the pics more than reading all my BS lol

day 1 Nov 27 2016. set up the axles at what the customer had requested 96" wheel base, stock to a watson. we ended up stretching it 10" after this point when the customer could see how little room would be in the **** pit at 96"



then things progressed, sorry some of the pics may be a little out of order. i didnt take a ton and they got imported in a weird order.


























and fast forward a couple weeks, didnt take a ton of pics of the process















so there it is today Dec. 27 2016. one month to get to this point
 
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kbs2244

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Nov 11, 2006
Messages
14,065
It needs a high reving 4 cyl.
I don't think those Offy's got on cam until 7K
A rumbling, low RPM, V8 just wouldn't be right.
That might be a bit of a pain on the street though.
 
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C

cornfield customs

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Oct 19, 2012
Messages
115
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Milford OHIO
kbs2244 said:
It needs a high reving 4 cyl.
I don't think those Offy's got on cam until 7K
A rumbling, low RPM, V8 just wouldn't be right.
That might be a bit of a pain on the street though.
Click to expand...

this car will have a ford flat head V8, while it is not my first choice for this car it will be neat. he already had the engine ready to go so that helps. it is a french block, aluminum heads, hilborn 8 port. it will be going in, in the morning so will post pics then
 
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theoldwizard1

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Feb 22, 2011
Messages
43,076
Location
SE MI
I guess your client has $$$ so build what he wants, but that is going to be a large, fat "roadster".

Indy roadsters were incredibly crude machines. Front and rear torsion bar suspensions. Non-rack and pinion steering. The men who drove them were REAL MEN !


I saw a great documentary about 20 years ago about a restoration of an Indy roadster that was once driven by Mario Andretti. All of the sheet metal had to be re-produced. Sheet aluminum, mallets and leather bag. If anybody know the name of this documentary drop it here.

(Coolest part was I saw it at opening of the iMax at The Henry Ford. The car and the owner were there after the film. He let he past the "velvet ropes" and get very up close with all parts of the vehicle. He opened the hood and revealed that it was on of the first cars NOT to have a front mounted radiator. Air came in the front but the radiator was mounted on the side so the air flowed through carrying the heat out. They had to block of a lot of the radiator because it ran too cold.)
 
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wasfast

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Apr 10, 2014
Messages
874
Location
San Diego CA
Really awesome to see more of your work. First class. You seem to have a huge number of 30's era cars and I spotted a Henry J in the corner. Great Shop!
 
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driftpin

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Dec 22, 2016
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11,178
Location
Miami-Dade/Broward Co. Florida
An interesting build, I like the concept, but I don't think the flathead Ford is really the correct period engine. But the customer gets to call his powerplant, and the flathead has a great sound. The V8-60 flathead was used in open wheeled cars, but usually in midgets. The 'champ cars,' would get an Offenhauser if the owner had the $$$. Even the midgets would run an Offenhauser if the owner could afford it. The father of one of my MI friends ran champ cars from the early 1950's to the late 1970's, sometimes running two cars for the Indy 500. He also liked the midgets, and he did run Offenhausers in both. In the Offenhauser registry of customers for whom the engines were built, his name appears repeatedly.

This car is going to look like a cigar case, in the bodywork, if it follows the convention of the day. They often ran offset chassis, where the body was closer to the wheels/tires on the left, because of the oval counter-clockwise race direction.

Looks like a Halibrand-style rear end, and their knock-off wheels too. As mentioned, it appears to be running f & r torsion bars. So, this is a 1950's champ car, just built today. If the owner wanted to do a Jay Leno-style car, he could get a Cummins diesel in it, which ran Indy in the 1950's. Or a Novi, which tore-up the tires of the day. But in the end, the reliable flathead Ford will probably give the best service for a street tribute car.

By the way, what's that hardware sticking in the waistband of the guy with the saggy pants? Is it that tough a neighborhood?

Doing something like this is obviously an expensive job, but in the end it should resemble a period car. I assume it will make a concession to safety, and use disc brakes? And narrow radials instead of bias ply tires?

I hope to see many more pics of the process of this heritage car, built now to honor the racing heritage of the post WW II era, before the Cooper, the Lotus, and the Mickey Thompson special showed the Indy guys there was a better way to run.

Don't forget to include the hole in the front rollpan for the hand-crank for that flathead!
 
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Giddyup

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Jan 3, 2014
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137
Location
South Australia
This will be an awesome roadster, love your work :thumbup::thumbup:
..... gotta subscribe this
 
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bluebolt

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Dec 28, 2008
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5,434
Location
Benton LA
driftpin said:
By the way, what's that hardware sticking in the waistband of the guy with the saggy pants? Is it that tough a neighborhood?
Click to expand...

Everytime a customer stops by to look and starts changing things saggy pants guys starts playing with it and the customer decides to leave well enough alone.
 
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driver

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Mar 16, 2010
Messages
126
"I saw a great documentary about 20 years ago about a restoration of an Indy roadster that was once driven by Mario Andretti. All of the sheet metal had to be re-produced. Sheet aluminum, mallets and leather bag. If anybody know the name of this documentary drop it here."

The documentary was an IMAX productin called Superspeedway. Wast he story of Mario and Michael's season and building of the Lola Indy car as well as the restoration of the Dean Van Lines Special roadster.
 
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bluebolt

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Dec 28, 2008
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5,434
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Benton LA
That's a gorgeous looking flathead! Looks like it has the 409 chevy single water pump conversion. And the transmission appears to be a T5, in one picture it has a S-10 tailhousing with the forward shifter and the later one it has a Mustang or Camaro tailhousing with the rear shifter location.
 
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Mr onetwo

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Apr 6, 2011
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Location
Coastal Maine
Very cool build and great work!!!Can't wait to see the completion.I think a blown Jag DOHC six would have been pretty sweet too!
 
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ttpete

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Joined
Mar 8, 2011
Messages
6,737
Location
Dearborn, MI
theoldwizard1 said:
I guess your client has $$$ so build what he wants, but that is going to be a large, fat "roadster".

Indy roadsters were incredibly crude machines. Front and rear torsion bar suspensions. Non-rack and pinion steering. The men who drove them were REAL MEN !


I saw a great documentary about 20 years ago about a restoration of an Indy roadster that was once driven by Mario Andretti. All of the sheet metal had to be re-produced. Sheet aluminum, mallets and leather bag. If anybody know the name of this documentary drop it here.

(Coolest part was I saw it at opening of the iMax at The Henry Ford. The car and the owner were there after the film. He let he past the "velvet ropes" and get very up close with all parts of the vehicle. He opened the hood and revealed that it was on of the first cars NOT to have a front mounted radiator. Air came in the front but the radiator was mounted on the side so the air flowed through carrying the heat out. They had to block of a lot of the radiator because it ran too cold.)
Click to expand...

I was at the evening black-tie event that was Navy-themed. The CO of the Blue Angels and one of his team were there plus other aviation people. Had a few words with Roger Penske. Ended up in the theater sitting next to the inventor of IMAX. The film was about carrier ops and had a camera mounted on the landing gear of an F-14 doing cat shots and arrested landings.

It appears that the Hilborn injector on that flathead has been converted to electronic injectors.
 
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C

cornfield customs

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Oct 19, 2012
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Milford OHIO
been finishing up some smaller things on the car, radiator hard lines upper coolant manifold, dash, radiator mounts ect. here are some pics of that progress. the car will be on display at my booth at the Cincinnati Cavalcade of customs this weekend.























the top 2 pics is of where we were 38 days ago from today, and the bottom pic is as of today. i still cant get over the amount of progress me and Ryan ( my employee) have made on this car in that time as well as keep the shop running as smoothly as we can on other cars and projects.

 
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EdT

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Sep 21, 2010
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North Georgia
Beautiful piece of work. Fast forward to a time when it's "finished", how does one go about getting tags and all that for a car that never actually existed?
 
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bluebolt

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Benton LA
EdT said:
Beautiful piece of work. Fast forward to a time when it's "finished", how does one go about getting tags and all that for a car that never actually existed?
Click to expand...

Depends on the state, usually an inspector, state trooper or police officer comes out to check paper work for the parts and a vin tag is installed. Some states are a lot easier than others. Emissions can be a big deal too.
 
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cornfield customs

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it has been a while since i updated this thread. we have had all kinds of things going on with this car and others in the shop so i have just been busy.

the shocks on the front were going to be an issue with the front end area being as busy and close as it was. so i moved the shocks in board and designed bell cranks to run them as a cantilever to tuck them into some open space. everything cycles as it should, no binding, rubbing or hitting. and keeping the lever arms 1:1 the shock dampening rate stays the same





with the drive shaft we also had to get creative. i wanted to keep the open trans look of an original indy roadster. since we are running a T5 and winters rear end i had to come up with something to cover the drive shaft. i decided to mimic a torque tube. it is a 2 piece cover that has a front and rear pivot point. the pivot points are in the center line of the universal in the drive shaft. this allows the cover to travel on the same plane as the drive shaft. we can cycle the suspension fully with no rubbing issues so it should work out well





got the steering box mounted, pitman arm machined and the drag link made. the steering box is an F100 box converted to side steer by Jokerr







made a pedal box assembly, the owner of the car wanted all wilwood parts on the brakes and clutch. we mounted everything on the engine bay side of the fire to mimic a real watson car, and help with leg room. the pedal extions and pads are also meant to mimic watson







then was onto fuel lines, brake lines, oil lines, shifter and other smaller pieces in the **** pit area







designed a fuel tank. had to make a wood buck to shape the pieces to





started roughing out the aluminum





got the final rendering in from the Root Bros.



then sent the body station files to water jet, and got all the buck profile stations cut out. assembly going on well with the buck. the buck looks super long, but over all it is only 17 inches longer tip to tail over a stock 1963 watson car, that is from us stretching the wheel base 10" for comfort as a street car, and the other 7" is to keep the proportions where we widened it to fit 2 seats.







 
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matt_i

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Mar 14, 2008
Messages
10,720
Location
SE Michigan
Pretty amazing, is the buck made from CNC-router pieces? or is that the waterjet?

I'm also curious how you design the buck, is it from a 3D/solid model or just made from wireframe/2D CAD?

Great work, and lots of it too, having to custom fabricate the entire vehicle....!!!
 
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cornfield customs

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Messages
115
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Milford OHIO
matt_i said:
Pretty amazing, is the buck made from CNC-router pieces? or is that the waterjet?

I'm also curious how you design the buck, is it from a 3D/solid model or just made from wireframe/2D CAD?

Great work, and lots of it too, having to custom fabricate the entire vehicle....!!!
Click to expand...

the buck was water jet cut, once it was designed in solid works ( 3d model) the designers could segment the car into splines or stations. those are now the vertical stations. the rest is all hand cut and fit
 
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kbs2244

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Nov 11, 2006
Messages
14,065
What amazes me is the no one has complained about the chain fall riding on your Zweb.
Can I assume you are not worried about the roof falling in?
 
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C

cornfield customs

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Messages
115
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Milford OHIO
kbs2244 said:
What amazes me is the no one has complained about the chain fall riding on your Zweb.
Can I assume you are not worried about the roof falling in?
Click to expand...


not worried about it at all. i use it for is lifting bare chassis on and off the frame table, or lifting a bare engine block on or off the table. less than 300lbs being moved
 
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driftpin

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Dec 22, 2016
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11,178
Location
Miami-Dade/Broward Co. Florida
Your talent is allowing this guy to live a life's dream. A very interesting build. Reminiscent of the Kurtis KK500 but no Offy. That flathead reproduction should be a lot easier to live with than an Offy for the street.

A guy I went through school with, Steve Panarites, just did a 1965 Brawner Hawk Indy Car restoration and won his class at Amelia Island. It was Mario Andretti's Indy 500 rookie race car, and was the first mid-engine car to win the USAC championship, so it has a lot of historical worth. Steve has been working on things like this for decades.

This car was built by future Indy car legends Clint Brawner and Jim McGee in 1965 for a young driver to use at his Brickyard debut. That driver was Mario Andretti. Andretti not only passed his rookie test in this car he also finished third in that year's event. Later the same year, he won his first Indy car race in the Hawk, on the road course at IRP and went on to win the 1965 USAC Championship. The following year, the Dean Van Lines, Andretti, Brawner & McGee team followed up winning the pole position for the Indy 500, seven race wins and their second USAC Championship. The 1967 season brought another Indy pole and seven more wins, but a second in the points battle to AJ Foyt. This is the car that propelled Mario Andretti into the motorsports limelight. It was restored by Jim McGee and Steve Panarites. It retains 80-percent of the original chassis, body and driveline including a 1965 four-cam Ford race engine built by Joe Boghosian.

http://www.conceptcarz.com/z26053/Brawner-McGee-Hawk.aspx

http://triplettracehistory.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-completed-restoration-of-mario.html





theoldwizard1 said:
I guess your client has $$$ so build what he wants, but that is going to be a large, fat "roadster".

Indy roadsters were incredibly crude machines. Front and rear torsion bar suspensions. Non-rack and pinion steering. The men who drove them were REAL MEN !


I saw a great documentary about 20 years ago about a restoration of an Indy roadster that was once driven by Mario Andretti. All of the sheet metal had to be re-produced. Sheet aluminum, mallets and leather bag. If anybody know the name of this documentary drop it here.

(Coolest part was I saw it at opening of the iMax at The Henry Ford. The car and the owner were there after the film. He let he past the "velvet ropes" and get very up close with all parts of the vehicle. He opened the hood and revealed that it was on of the first cars NOT to have a front mounted radiator. Air came in the front but the radiator was mounted on the side so the air flowed through carrying the heat out. They had to block of a lot of the radiator because it ran too cold.)
Click to expand...
 
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gte718p

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Mar 12, 2009
Messages
3,950
cornfield customs said:
started getting some of the body panels roughed out




at this stage all the panels need refining and finishing, but they are getting there
Click to expand...

The wooden buck is very similar to how I make carbon fiber race cars and boats. My preference is to fill all the voids with foam and then shape it, but in a pinch I have just stapled fleece to the wood, and covered it with epoxy. A coat of bondo and some sanding and you have a great male mold. Depending on what you want out of the final part, you can either then make a female mold, or just layup the part on the male mold.

I love the connection between older classic techniques and new technology.
 
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