I want to put a mini split in my garage but it's on the far end of the house from where my other air conditioners are, and I have no good place to put one in between. I'll need an 80-90' line set. Not an issue for that length in terms of claimed specs (most say 100' max line length). My question is -- what's a good source for long or bulk lines? Apparently you aren't supposed to braze two pieces together with mini splits, and I can't imagine using a flare fitting coupling in the middle of the attic. Googling it I only found one source, a 100' line set for almost... $700. Seems a bit high to me.
Long mini split line sets?
- Thread starter soob
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Mike.VA
Well-known member
I understand your question, but why are you wanting to place the unit by the other ones at the far end of the house. Have you considered placing the outdoor unit right outside the garage?
I have the same sort of issue, and I's planning on setting the mini-split unit right at the garage and then having a short line run.
I have the same sort of issue, and I's planning on setting the mini-split unit right at the garage and then having a short line run.
I do have options, but none of them are any good. I could mount it on wall facing the driveway, where it would stick out two feet into the driveway and blow hot air on people walking to the main entrance at the back of the house. I'd still need a 50' line set, too, because it'd have to go up over the second floor to get there. It could be attached to the side of the house in the back, but I'd have to haul a 100+lb compressor up there and install it from a ladder and it would be over the main entry door. I could put it in a nook the front of the house but the clearance is marginal and I'd have to put a little fence around it along with a roof to protect it from water pouring off the roof.
I'd rather just pay for the longer lines and marginal decrease in efficiency.
I'd rather just pay for the longer lines and marginal decrease in efficiency.
Slednut
Well-known member
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theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Find some place to mount it closer ! You will loose efficiency over that length.
You can hang them high (> 6') on an exterior wall.
You can hang them high (> 6') on an exterior wall.
Looking at the charts for regular air conditioners, the efficiency loss is minimal (~5%). I would much rather have the condenser completely out of the way. I went up in the attic just a few minutes ago and the path is easier than I had thought. Might be able to pull it off with a 75' line.
Apparently at least one major mini split seller recommends just joining two of their line sets with flare couplings. Seems like a bad idea to me but I'm planning to DIY the whole thing anyway, so I'll be ready to tackle a leak if one happens.
ETA: err, I did the math again and the run still looks like 85' or so.
Apparently at least one major mini split seller recommends just joining two of their line sets with flare couplings. Seems like a bad idea to me but I'm planning to DIY the whole thing anyway, so I'll be ready to tackle a leak if one happens.
ETA: err, I did the math again and the run still looks like 85' or so.
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Ohmthis
Well-known member
We flow nitrogen and braze another lineset on. I've never seen where you couldn't, but I'm wrong sometimes too. Please show where you cannot extend a lineset, please.
Minisplits are flare connections across the board. The instructions say not to braze any connections. There are myriad people saying the same thing online.
From what I gather from reading discussions online, it's not that brazing doesn't work, it's that it's not worth the risk of contamination. That's especially true for people like yours truly who can't expect the makers to honor any warranty in exchange for not paying someone an absurd amount of money to do the hookups.
From what I gather from reading discussions online, it's not that brazing doesn't work, it's that it's not worth the risk of contamination. That's especially true for people like yours truly who can't expect the makers to honor any warranty in exchange for not paying someone an absurd amount of money to do the hookups.
R.Anderson
Well-known member
I would not want to braze in the attic. Flare fittings are easy, to do. Do you have all the required equipment to install a mini split system? Vacuum pump, nitrogen, micron gauge, and flaring tool?
Pressure testing procedures for the unit should be in the Install manual as well as information for adding more refrigerant if needed due to line set being longer than normal.
Pressure testing procedures for the unit should be in the Install manual as well as information for adding more refrigerant if needed due to line set being longer than normal.
Ohmthis
Well-known member
I just pulled out an installation manual I have on a Mitsubishi wall mount heat pump I just installed. It only mentions flares on the connections to the equipment. It does NOT specify any info about extending a line set. I have to assume (we know what assuming can get you) they expect a continuous line set to be used. What if the line is some freakishly long line that no one makes? What then? I have extended line sets before and have had ZERO issues. I flowed nitrogen while brazing, which will keep the copper from oxidizing, thus no contamination. I know there is talk about this, but I have yet to see/hear any bad issues from this method. Do as you want as it's your place. I'm just putting in my opinion. Let us know how it turns out.
Jinks
Well-known member
I'm having a little trouble picturing your location problem. Photo's would help. My mini-split is at the back of my garage below a two story roof with no cover to protect it. Water hasn't harmed it in nearly three years, & I ran my line set inside to just a couple of feet from the compressor. Both the inside & outside units are scary quiet so noise shouldn't be a problem. Maybe with a few photos we could help solve your location problem...
If you insist. I don't see how you can solve my problem though. To get to the primary entrance to the house from the driveway you have to walk between the house and the detached garage. There's patio/porch from there all the way to the far side of the house.
I want to put the mini split evaporator on second picture's top right wall of the garage where it starts to stick out from the rest of the house.
Attachments
Here's my rejected locations:
Yellow = preffered evaporator location. Rejected for condensor because of excessive roof runoff, exposure to street, proximity to front patio, poor air circulation.
Red: rejected because of difficulty, poor attic access, noise near patio.
Blue: rejected because of noise, aesthetics, and it blowing hot air on people walking through the to the rear entrance from the driveway.
Yellow = preffered evaporator location. Rejected for condensor because of excessive roof runoff, exposure to street, proximity to front patio, poor air circulation.
Red: rejected because of difficulty, poor attic access, noise near patio.
Blue: rejected because of noise, aesthetics, and it blowing hot air on people walking through the to the rear entrance from the driveway.
Attachments
Yes, no, no, no. But I can buy them. My father wants me to come put a couple mini splits in rental property he owns also so it makes sense to invest in the tools. Plus I am sick and tired of paying A/C techs every time something goes wrong. I've done all kinds of electrical and plumbing work, I've replaced the compressor in my truck, and it's worked for ten years.
Mini splits don't seem hard to me.
Jinks
Well-known member
I don't insist, I'm just trying to help. From the photos it looks to me like you could mount the compressor on a roof mount above where you plan on putting the evaporator. Vibration mounts will reduce what little noise the compressor will create & the gas lines will be reasonable. Only the drain line needs to be run down to ground level, & it's outflow is minimal.
If any of that angers you feel free to simply ignore me.
Sorry, didn't mean to sound ugly. I appreciate any and all input.
I'm not keen on a roof mount though. The house is on a cul-du-sac and the garage is very exposed to the street. It'd look pretty tacky. Plus it'd be no fun to put it up on that steep roof, have to cut a hole in the roof, etc. Like I said I'd rather just run longer lines.
What I really want is a reasonable online source for 100-ft refrigeration lines.
I'm not keen on a roof mount though. The house is on a cul-du-sac and the garage is very exposed to the street. It'd look pretty tacky. Plus it'd be no fun to put it up on that steep roof, have to cut a hole in the roof, etc. Like I said I'd rather just run longer lines.
What I really want is a reasonable online source for 100-ft refrigeration lines.
ive also seen nitrogen back purged to join line sets. , the reason contamanimation is a concern is it will react with the air in the line . with nitrogen it will not and will not contaminate. imo this is what id do.
I had to get a 35' line set recently and make all my own flares (5/8" and 3/8") it was very easy. the hard part when running long runs is unrolling and not kinking especially the larger line sets when you have to make a tighter bend.
Flare connections would create a restriction/bottle neck so id avoid that as it will decrease efficiency as well . That long of run make sure its well insulated and with proper charge procedure . IMO your over thinking the situation .
I had to get a 35' line set recently and make all my own flares (5/8" and 3/8") it was very easy. the hard part when running long runs is unrolling and not kinking especially the larger line sets when you have to make a tighter bend.
Flare connections would create a restriction/bottle neck so id avoid that as it will decrease efficiency as well . That long of run make sure its well insulated and with proper charge procedure . IMO your over thinking the situation .
justinjoyal
Well-known member
What model mini-split are you installing ?
Hadn't settled on one yet. Probably the Mitsubishi MZ-GL24NA, but maybe the cheapest one I can find. High seer ratings aren't that useful for a garage, nor is a super duper warranty if they won't honor it for DIY installs. The Pioneer brand has good reviews on Amazon.
@04chase: I'd also have to buy a nitrogen tank and borrow a torch. Brazing just isn't something I'd like to do if I can help it. It seems really odd to me that you can't just buy a continuous 100' line.
@04chase: I'd also have to buy a nitrogen tank and borrow a torch. Brazing just isn't something I'd like to do if I can help it. It seems really odd to me that you can't just buy a continuous 100' line.
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brewchief01
Member
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- Nov 18, 2015
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- 14
Just do a flare connection, running a 100' lineset in one piece would bring the ****.
I would keep the flare joint in the attic up out of the attic insulation so it could be checked in future but it's really no different than the connection at the unit.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
I would keep the flare joint in the attic up out of the attic insulation so it could be checked in future but it's really no different than the connection at the unit.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
justinjoyal
Well-known member
You can buy copper lines in 100´ lenghts... HVAC suppliers have them, but may not sell ´em to you if you're not a tech.
Running a single lenght of piping will always be best.
Huge house, no budget for a pro install. Oh well...
Running a single lenght of piping will always be best.
Huge house, no budget for a pro install. Oh well...
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That unit takes a 3/8" Liquid x 5/8" Suction lineset
It looks like it would cost more to buy two 50' linesets
50' = $375 (or $750 for 2)
100' = $665
http://www.ecomfort.com/Mitsubishi-MPLS385812T-100/p30595.html
You could shop around some more, but eComfort has free shipping and no sales tax.
Mitsubishis part number = MPLS385812T-100
Some people just like doing things themselves, he said he has some other mini splits to install, and I actually laughed a bit when I read "pro install"
(like that is going to insure it was done right or to a high quality or something along those lines)
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I'm going to call around. Thanks everybody. But there are folks on eBay selling 50' line sets for $150 or so, no way it should cost $600 for a 100'er.
Yeah, I enjoy doing stuff like this. It's fun to learn new things. Plus, while I'm sure there are many upstanding HVAC guys out there, I've had really bad luck over the years.
Off the top of my head, there was the guy who read the back of a compressor ("max overcurrent protection: 35A") and said "you'll need at least a 40-amp breaker for this one."
There was the guy who I hired at a seller's expense when I was buying a house who inspected and serviced the units (supposedly). He replaced one of the disconnects (?) with a fused one (? I wasn't paying for it). Come spring the A/C didn't work. Because he forgot to put the fuses in.
Then there was the guy who sold me freon who literally put his thumb on the scale to try and cheat me. A bunch who refuse to find leaks or replace individual components because it isn't as profitable for them, I guess.
Plus, with the quotes I got I can fry the first unit and still come out ahead if I get it right the second time.
Yeah, I enjoy doing stuff like this. It's fun to learn new things. Plus, while I'm sure there are many upstanding HVAC guys out there, I've had really bad luck over the years.
Off the top of my head, there was the guy who read the back of a compressor ("max overcurrent protection: 35A") and said "you'll need at least a 40-amp breaker for this one."
There was the guy who I hired at a seller's expense when I was buying a house who inspected and serviced the units (supposedly). He replaced one of the disconnects (?) with a fused one (? I wasn't paying for it). Come spring the A/C didn't work. Because he forgot to put the fuses in.
Then there was the guy who sold me freon who literally put his thumb on the scale to try and cheat me. A bunch who refuse to find leaks or replace individual components because it isn't as profitable for them, I guess.
Plus, with the quotes I got I can fry the first unit and still come out ahead if I get it right the second time.
justinjoyal
Well-known member
Some people just like doing things themselves, he said he has some other mini splits to install, and I actually laughed a bit when I read "pro install"
I agree that it is no insurance. I also understand some people like to get their hands dirty.
But a DIY install can also become a nightmare when not done right...
Does Mitsubishi honor their warranty in case of DIYs ?
I can only speak for myself. I did everything but the startup. Paid a Mitsu Contractor $300 to do that so that I would 'on paper' maintain the warranty, (per eComfort).
I haven't had any problems in the two years that it has been running, so I haven't had a chance to put it to the test - and hopefully I won't.
Which leads me to the point that the reason I bought a Mr Slim unit to begin with was because it was supposed to be the best - so why do I need a warranty?
I could see Mitsubishi not honoring a warranty if it was something clearly related to a DIY install, but if a component just failed on it's own..
Reminds me of a tract home I purchased (S Cal) about 20 years ago. I went up at night when no one was around and installed the wiring for one of those Nutone whole house intercom systems. You couldn't tell once the house was dry walled and I knew exactly where to cut out to access the low voltage wiring. The builder found out about a week before we closed and threw a fit saying he was not going to warranty the electrical system for the whole entire house. I told him we weren't going to buy the house... and he ended up changing his tune. We agreed if it was something related to my intercom install, I would be responsible. Sounded reasonable to me at the time
and I agree - it is easy for thing to go sideways when your doing it yourself, but that is why people join forums like this one. There are a lot of knowledgeable people willing to help a guy out
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