Garage dilemma - Fix or tear down and build new

WeekendWarrior83 · Feb 20, 2017

I have an old house (90-100 years old) in the city with a small detached garage of about the same age. I've known since day one that I had to do something with the garage. It is structurally sound, but decrepit looking, and like I said, very small (about 11'x16'). I have been debating the pros and cons of fixing it up vs rebuilding it from scratch, and hopefully I can get some other opinions on this as well.

Like I said the current garage is about 11x16 with a decent poured concrete foundation, wood plank floor over dirt, metal sheathing on the outside, and a shingle roof.

My lot is only 40x100' so I'm limited on space. Wish I could do a 2 car garage as I have a small sports car I would like to store and I would also like to have a bit of a work area, but that is not a possibility with this property. The way I see it my options are as follows:

1) Throw up siding over the current exterior, new roof, new door, tear out the wooden floor and pour a proper concrete floor. The downside is it would be tough to fit a car in there, especially if storing anything else, but it would make a nice little workshop/storage shed and save me some money. If I decided to move to a bigger property after 5 years or so, I could use the money saved there.

2) Tear down the current garage and replace it with a new garage around 12x20' in size. I've determined this is about the max footprint I can fit without completely changing the landscaping in my backyard (ie. removing a pond, patio, 100 year old walnut tree, etc.) and still meet the setback requirements and other bylaws. It would allow me to fit a car and have some storage. It would cost several grand more though.

Opinions?

I've included some pictures

Hotsauce · Feb 20, 2017

Tear down and do it right. A few k more is well worth it.

tjdux · Feb 20, 2017

Is it metal siding or wood? looks like plywood in the photos.

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jd_1138 · Feb 20, 2017

Wow, that is little. I'd tear it down and do it right.

If you had a larger lot and more space, I'd keep it as a shed and just build a new garage. But that's a moot point.

tjdux · Feb 20, 2017

You could get some prorib tin and have it covered in fresh metal in a weekend and another 3 day weenend for for the roof. Probably be done with around 1.5k but im shooting in the dark there.

Option b if you're pouring concrete anyways maybe possible to extend out one wall 2 or 3 feet without too much extra expense.

Pour the wall footer, build the new walls and rafters joining them to the old and then once everything is connected tear down the old wall from the inside then pour the floor. Probably not much leaa work than full tear down but may be a little cheaper.

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bczygan · Feb 20, 2017

Check your zoning regs first. You may not be able to put new structure in the same place.

Bill

yukon65006 · Feb 20, 2017

Possible to get a zoning variance? Also it does not have to be a rectangle, if the tree or pond are only on the first 10ft of depth go wider in the back. Or how ever it fits.

landlord30 · Feb 20, 2017

I would definitely explore my options as far as what can be done legally. It seems like not more than an old shed at this point. If you can build something that works better for you go for it.

Dr Stan · Feb 20, 2017

bczygan said:
Check your zoning regs first. You may not be able to put new structure in the same place.

Bill

Ya beat me to it. Especially check on the set back requirements.

Had a 20 X 20 shop in NE that set right on the property line. If I had torn it down I would have never gotten a building permit to put one up on the same location. The solution was to tear down one wall at a time and just repair it. :bounce:

APEowner · Feb 20, 2017

There's no historic character or significance to the current structure so I'd trip it down and replace it with something that's more useful. I don't know that you'd recoup the cost when you sell but you certinaly won't if you invest more in the current building.

WeekendWarrior83 · Feb 20, 2017

bczygan said:
Check your zoning regs first. You may not be able to put new structure in the same place.

Bill

I've been in communication with city already. Minimum setback is 2' from the side or rear property line. Currently the garage is about 3' from the side property line. So I would be good in that respect and could even go a tad closer with a replacement. Rear setback isn't an issue.

The only other bylaws I'm aware of relate to the height and total area. The garage can't be more than 10% of the total lot area. A 12x20 garage would be 240sq/ft, so I'm fine there. And I have to keep the height under 15' which wouldn't be an issue.

Cost aside, my main concern with replacing the garage is the removal of the old foundation. Not really sure how deep the footings go and how much work that would be to remove. I also don't want to kill too many tree roots in the process. The last thing I want is a giant dead walnut tree that needs to be taken down with no easy way to get to it.

Has anyone had an old garage foundation removed? Just wondering what's involved. I imagine digging and jack-hammering?

driftpin · Feb 20, 2017

I suggest building whatever size you can afford. A one car garage almost isn't worth it, to build new. A 12' x 20' footprint is still a one-car garage.

I like trees but does yours have any sort of blight or trunk cavity that is slowly killing the tree? Is it going to need to come-down sometime in the future because of disease? Then take it out now, and build a decent 2-car space. Get a new survey done to positively establish your property lines. Pay close-attention to utility easements and your setbacks for your zoning district. Before you spend any $ on design plans, make sure you are able to build what you want to build. Are there any restrictive covenants, deed restrictions or design issues for the neighborhood, where your design has to meet specific criteria? Are you in a designated historic district? All these things can ^ your price, or alter your design plans.

Don't consider doing the foundation removal by manual labor. Hire a backhoe/dumptruck to do the work, the building and foundation should be gone in a day, two at most. You may need to bring in fill if your site is low, you don't want flooding in your garage, and your building requirements may need you to build on a higher grade. Are you thinking of a stemwall? Get the foundation designed for soil conditions, and have the stemwall done, then build the walls on that. Your slab will have good elevation and everything should be solid. My suggestion.

Also, be sure you know what's below the site as you may have to deal with problems you didn't expect (attachment).

WeekendWarrior83 · Feb 20, 2017

Thanks driftpin. And I'll definitely keep the underground surprises in mind

John in OH · Feb 21, 2017

driftpin said:
I suggest building whatever size you can afford. A one car garage almost isn't worth it, to build new. A 12' x 20' footprint is still a one-car garage.

I like trees but does yours have any sort of blight or trunk cavity that is slowly killing the tree? Is it going to need to come-down sometime in the future because of disease? Then take it out now, and build a decent 2-car space. Get a new survey done to positively establish your property lines. Pay close-attention to utility easements and your setbacks for your zoning district. Before you spend any $ on design plans, make sure you are able to build what you want to build. Are there any restrictive covenants, deed restrictions or design issues for the neighborhood, where your design has to meet specific criteria? Are you in a designated historic district? All these things can ^ your price, or alter your design plans.

Don't consider doing the foundation removal by manual labor. Hire a backhoe/dumptruck to do the work, the building and foundation should be gone in a day, two at most. You may need to bring in fill if your site is low, you don't want flooding in your garage, and your building requirements may need you to build on a higher grade. Are you thinking of a stemwall? Get the foundation designed for soil conditions, and have the stemwall done, then build the walls on that. Your slab will have good elevation and everything should be solid. My suggestion.

Also, be sure you know what's below the site as you may have to deal with problems you didn't expect (attachment).

All good advice here from driftpin!

Elevation of new concrete floor is important ... far too many buildings are built "too low". Plan to use a ramped concrete apron to approach the entrance.

Also, review your electrical feeder to the building and plan to include replacement/upgrade if necessary.

Check around local building/lumbar yards to see if any can provide a "garage package" that includes all material for the structural. Sometimes these can be found at a pretty reasonable price.

WeekendWarrior83 · Feb 28, 2017

OK some more details.

Here's a rough site plan I sketched up. It's not perfectly to scale, but gives a good idea of what's going on. Pretty busy in my backyard as you can see.

The end goal is to fit my old sports car in the garage. The layout on the left shows the current garage and how it could fit, along with an overly optimistic workbench placement. In all likelihood I wouldn't be able to fit that and would have to go with some sort of fold down worktop.

The layout to the right is what things would look like if I decided to build new. Slghtly bigger, but considerably more useful (I think).

Here's a picture of the limited space I have behind my current garage. At this point I am not looking to remove the pond (bottom right) or the big ol' walnut tree at the back. In fact I'm not even sure if the tree technically lies within my property or not as it is right on the edge.

I've drawn an approximation of where a new 12x20' garage would go out to. It would give me enough space between the garage and the pond to get behind the garage still.

If I decided to keep the old garage and park my car in it.. I'd have no choice but to build a shed. I figure this spot to the right of the pond would be perfect for a small garden shed.

All feedback is welcome

rubberrodder · Feb 28, 2017

In my two cents worth here, I would fill in the pond so it wont be a "skeeter-breeder". sacrifice a bit more of the pergola, and go sixteen wide and twenty four deep. Or at least sixteen wide anyway. depending on codes and other factors you might be able to incorperate you old foundation into the new one. Some places will give you a remodel permit cheaper but you have to use "part" of the old structure. You could build "vintage" design elements into the new structure as well. Paint and trim color to match the house goes a long way to an appealing look.

FRSMech · Feb 28, 2017

Why not just do a two wall addition? Expand the garage in direction you wish, raise the roof, pour a new elevated slab over the existing flooring and have the garage you really want without losing the history.

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roscoe2000 · Feb 28, 2017

I was thinking with your limitations for your foot print you could gain so usable floor space utilizing a four post lift. Your height limitation of 15', that would probably mean a a shed or flat roof, which may clash with with yours and the neighbor home.

Toothaker · Feb 28, 2017

About 25 years ago I inherited a 100+ year old house, with a 100 year old carriage house in the back yard which was 18' deep by 16' wide - call it a shallow 1 and a half car garage.

By the time I got the house, the carriage house had been renovated into a garage of sorts, with a foundation (of sorts) poured under the existing walls, a concrete floor that was too low, insulation had been added, the interior was sheetrocked and 20 amp service in overhead wires.

I believe the reason my relatives had renovated instead of building new was that the existing structure was grandfathered in, and building new would have required a different location.

It was, in short, all wrong. And in the long run, it would have been cheaper to tear it down, get the lot graded correctly, and build a real garage.

Do you remember that movie, starring Tom Hanks and Shelly Long - The Money Pit? It was a documentary, not a comedy. :bounce:

John in OH · Feb 28, 2017

WeekendWarrior83 said:
OK some more details.

The layout to the right is what things would look like if I decided to build new. Slghtly bigger, but considerably more useful (I think).

If I decided to keep the old garage and park my car in it.. I'd have no choice but to build a shed. I figure this spot to the right of the pond would be perfect for a small garden shed.

All feedback is welcome

After seeing these pics, especially the second that compares old vs. new, it sure appears that a new 12x16 (minimum) build would be the better way forward. Provided, of course, you don't run afoul of local building codes.

drivesitfar · Feb 28, 2017

WW: i probably wouldn't tear down the old garage until the new one had at least an approved permit in your hands. also regarding the old garage/shed's foundation how about leaving it and just raising the height of new structure. that way you can use the old cement to help hold the new structural fill and maybe it would help some with any drainage issues especially if you are only raising the level of your new garage a few inches so that your access is still ok.

I agree to make it as big as you can afford and maybe rebuild the pond and instead of a tree put in a pergola or nice patio for BBQ or just sitting around with friends.

WeekendWarrior83 · Feb 28, 2017

Great advice all.

I would fill in the pond so it wont be a "skeeter-breeder". sacrifice a bit more of the pergola, and go sixteen wide and twenty four deep.

I have contemplated filling in the pond. Its definitely a mosquito breeding ground. So that is an option and is what I was originally thinking, but I'm worried that doing too much landscape alterations will blow my budget. Something to think about.

The pergola on the other hand is going to go no matter what. The wood is mostly rotted and it is holding up a large 'Wisteria' vine, which is a torment to prune since it grows so quickly and wildly. It looks nice for a few weeks in spring when it blooms and after that it's the vine from hell. Also the pergola is attached to the garage, which I'm not fond of.

Why not just do a two wall addition?

Extending the garage back is an option, but I think I'd rather just restart from scratch for additional space. Not really any historical significance to the garage. It has some nice old wood framing in there and I would try to salvage it and maybe use it to build a nice workbench or something... if I went the route of tearing it down and rebuilding.

@Toothaker - well said.. and something to consider.

I'm going to get a few estimates soon so hopefully that will help me decide. I neither have the time nor skill to do much aside from finishing off the interior on my own.

sublime68charger · Feb 28, 2017

How long due you plan on living in this house?

if your only gonna make this a little bigger and still just have a single car parking.

Id live with what you have maybe add on to the back and put Yard stuff back there and put in a door on the side to get yard stuff in/out with out having to move the car out.

Is the car daily driven in the summer? or just a weekend toy?
can you add onto the front?

just my thoughts.

good luck.

if you keep it first thing I would due is pull off shingles and put some tin up there.

if you was going to tear down and put in a 2 car Okay fine with that
but to tear down and build the same thing to me seems to be spinning wheels a little bit.

depends upon is this going to have daily parking in it or just sometimes parking?

drivesitfar · Feb 28, 2017

WW: one thing to think about is that you won't just be spending money cause you'll be adding equity to your home in case you move later. if you do it correctly and so another person will like as much or more than you do a 100% return is sometimes attainable. it might raise your taxes is maybe the downside, but if you get to use it and like a garage then that's a small price to pay.

also you can build a pergola like mine almost in any part of a yard and i just built mine in front of my house to break up the old front lawn that just went to the street.

good luck on finding a good contractor and remember cheapest isn't always best cause you'll have to live with the contractor and his crew for a few months maybe.

Stuart in MN · Feb 28, 2017

As for tearing up the existing garage's foundation, it may be on footings or it may be just a floating slab. If it's just a slab, demolition will obviously be easier.

WeekendWarrior83 · Feb 28, 2017

sublime68charger said:
How long due you plan on living in this house?

if your only gonna make this a little bigger and still just have a single car parking.

Id live with what you have maybe add on to the back and put Yard stuff back there and put in a door on the side to get yard stuff in/out with out having to move the car out.

Is the car daily driven in the summer? or just a weekend toy?
can you add onto the front?

just my thoughts.

good luck.

if you keep it first thing I would due is pull off shingles and put some tin up there.

if you was going to tear down and put in a 2 car Okay fine with that
but to tear down and build the same thing to me seems to be spinning wheels a little bit.

depends upon is this going to have daily parking in it or just sometimes parking?

I plan to be here for another 5-10 years, which is probably why I'm being a bit indecisive. If I planned to stay her for 15+ years I'd say rebuild without a doubt. The car is just a weekend toy which I currently have stored elsewhere.

@drivesitfar - great looking pergola. When I take mine down I may redo the patio and add a new pergola like yours back in... without the damn vine growing on it though.

Stuart in MN said:
As for tearing up the existing garage's foundation, it may be on footings or it may be just a floating slab. If it's just a slab, demolition will obviously be easier.

It has footings... hard to tell how deep they go though.

Garage dilemma - Fix or tear down and build new

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