Mechanics tell the truth: Smoke Machines!

mrjaw14 · May 17, 2017

I have been reading up on smoke machines and find that there's two common sales pitches/warnings

1. You MUST use nitrogen as the gas when smoking an EVAP system. Supposedly this is to keep the 21% Oxygen in normal air from leaning the vapor-rich gas atmosphere in the gas tank. This is to prevent explosions.

I know nitrogen is technically correct, but is this done in the real-world vs. using shop air? My feeling is shop air is fine, and this is like the don't use pants as a flotation device warning.

2. You have to use some super secret OEM approved smoke liquid. The MSDS on the snap-on fluid is high-grade mineral oil with some dye in it. The fluid is expensive. do you guys use pharmaceutical mineral oil USP or something similar, or do you pony up for the expensive fluid? I also read that most OEM's don't approve dye, so high purity mineral oil would be preferable would it not? I know that a "fog machine" from a party store has a water-based fluid that dries with a sugary film that's not good for sensors, but what about straight mineral oil? Or is there a legitimate reason to use the high-priced fluid. I don't mind using it...if there's actually merit to it being better: read it won't damage sensors and anything else will.

Reason I ask all this is I'm in the market for a smoke machine, and wanted to hear from mechanics that use these what's BS and what's not.

Fedwrench · May 17, 2017

1. I've only used nitrogen with a smoke machine in a school environment. I've always used shop air with my smoke machine and haven't blown anything up :dunno:

2. I don't think the smoke machine fluid is classified. Dye can be handy but, some vehicle oems don't like it. Just for simplicity, we match fluid brand with the brand of smoke machine.

The best feature on any smoke machine is the adjustable flow gauge. :thumbup:

T45 · May 17, 2017

Supposedly this is to keep the 21% Oxygen in normal air from leaning the vapor-rich gas atmosphere in the gas tank. This is to prevent explosions.

OP, Nobody can answer this for YOU. This is a topic you need to accept 100% liability for and act 100% on your own responsibility. My $0.02c

WhiffySpark · May 17, 2017

You're going to waste your money. I wouldn't buy anything less than a redline. You need a scanner to open and close the valves as well unless you want to mess with running jumper wires to try to activate them.

Just pay the diag and have someone fix it. Hell look at your gas cap before you do anything. It may be dry rotted and cracking to pieces

mrjaw14 · May 17, 2017

T45 said:
OP, Nobody can answer this for YOU. This is a topic you need to accept 100% liability for and act 100% on your own responsibility. My $0.02c

I know man, I'm just curious what is actually done. My electrical tools say don't use on live circuits...but there's times when it simply must be done. I'm not saying there's not merit to either of the suggestions from the manufactureres, I'm just wanting to hear if they're actually followed or not. I'm not going to take this as my point of reference for what I do, just conversation :beer:

WhiffySpark said:
You're going to waste your money. I wouldn't buy anything less than a redline. You need a scanner to open and close the valves as well unless you want to mess with running jumper wires to try to activate them.

Just pay the diag and have someone fix it. Hell look at your gas cap before you do anything. It may be dry rotted and cracking to pieces

I very well may do just that. But it got me thinking about the two questions I asked and what mechanics actually do in the field. This is just conversation, just like my friends as me about the work I do

TheCarbideRat · May 17, 2017

I read about using baby oil, havent done that myself but ....

WhiffySpark · May 17, 2017

TheCarbideRat said:
I read about using baby oil, havent done that myself but ....

Old boss sweared that worked after arguing with me for an oil. It didn't work lol

Bobioz1 · May 17, 2017

The Redline runs baby oil and shop air around here.

Skin · May 17, 2017

Never been in a shop that used pure Nitrogen. I'd wager odds are far better that your grill will explode while cooking a hamburger. Smell fuel vapors? Whether you're using a smoke machine or not just use some common sense. Don't use cordless, don't smoke a cigarette or try to find the source with a match. You'll live.

The warning is there for the same reason that a company that makes toasters has to warn you not to jam a fork into the slot.

allstarrme · May 17, 2017

I do a lot of evap tests on cars, one every day or 2. We use shop air everytime, I'm sure our machine was made long before nitrogen was even used in a shop environment and I've never heard that warning. We use only the snap on fluid in the snap on machine because that's what it came with, but I think we just actually ran out for the first time recently and we bought more from them because the shop pays for the shop account. The machine is over 10 years old, so plenty of use even if it's expensive.

Most shops have a smoke machine already, so not to many new ones get sold. There's a bunch of used ones on Craigslist all the time, if this isn't something your going to use frequently I wouldn't bother getting a new one.

2ndGearRubber · May 17, 2017

WhiffySpark said:
Old boss sweared that worked after arguing with me for an oil. It didn't work lol

Bobioz1 said:
The Redline runs baby oil and shop air around here.

We use baby oil as well, fairly old redline machine with all but the basic cone-feed attachment missing. Shop air as well, never heard of needing nitrogen; like any shop is going to pay for a dedicated nitrogen supply to run a smoker. :lol_hitti

Smoke machine isn't all it's cracked up to be. It works, yes, but it is not the be-all-end-all of EVAP. Scanner, mity-vac hand pumper, jump leads, multi-meter, are all required to do any basic EVAP work. We don't do much because frankly it isn't really worth the hassle.

WhiffySpark · May 17, 2017

Maybe it was what he brought. It was Johnson and Johnson reg ok baby oil. Maybe I'm an idiot :lol:

2ndGearRubber · May 17, 2017

WhiffySpark said:
Maybe it was what he brought. It was Johnson and Johnson reg ok baby oil. Maybe I'm an idiot

Nah that's what we buy. Just the kind you get at CVS. My buddy has a newer one at his shop (still not cutting edge, also a redline) and he uses the redline fluid. Seems a bit "whispy-er" and a bit more pure white. Over all though they do the same job.

Perhaps the newer machines don't like baby oil? :dunno:

Tim C · May 17, 2017

We use regular shop air. I can't comment on the oil. We've been using our snapon machine for nearly 10 years, several times a week and every time I've pulled the dipstick out of it it's showing full, LOL. The snapon oil has some uv dye in it similar to freon leak detection dyes. It glows bright green when it condenses at a leak if you can't see the smoke directly.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Bloodystumps · May 17, 2017

Fedwrench said:
1. I've only used nitrogen with a smoke machine in a school environment. I've always used shop air with my smoke machine and haven't blown anything up

2. I don't think the smoke machine fluid is classified. Dye can be handy but, some vehicle oems don't like it. Just for simplicity, we match fluid brand with the brand of smoke machine.

The best feature on any smoke machine is the adjustable flow gauge.

That's a fact!

I have never heard of using nitrogen interesting.

Bobioz1 said:
The Redline runs baby oil and shop air around here.

same at my shop been working with no issues for years..

mbshop · May 17, 2017

Yup, shop air and it never seemed to use much oil.
I would use oil intended for that purpose as the smoke tends to stay and be more visible.

TheMadAligner · May 7, 2021

I've been an auto tech for 40 years holding 7 or 8 ase certs plus various others including L1 advanced engine performance I have my own redline it's near to 15 years old I've used every brand and baby oil in most some work fine with others produce 20 to 40 percent less smoke volume but plenty for testing purposes I've seen every possible problem a system can have including once a Cadillac catera that had transmission overflow/breather line connected to the purge valve go figure this shop had R&R the Trans and been chasing the problem almost 2 years before I started there. I've never used nitrogen or Co but sounds novel. My redline i maintain myself its very simple and easy to do. I use mine for exhaust leaks and other applications like turbo systems among others also.if you can own one I recommend it

BlackLS2 · May 7, 2021

I made a home made one out of an ABS toilet flange, ABS clean out cap, Tiki torch wick, wire, and baby oil. Not commercial grade obviously, used it a ton, nothing ever blew up.....yet.

laser3kw · May 7, 2021

BlackLS2 said:
I made a home made one out of an ABS toilet flange, ABS clean out cap, Tiki torch wick, wire, and baby oil. Not commercial grade obviously, used it a ton, nothing ever blew up.....yet.

MacGyver?? welcome! :lol:

joshmodelskidoo · May 7, 2021

BlackLS2 said:
I made a home made one out of an ABS toilet flange, ABS clean out cap, Tiki torch wick, wire, and baby oil. Not commercial grade obviously, used it a ton, nothing ever blew up.....yet.

I probably made the same one. Hooked Up to my compressor. I have only used it a couple times but no issues eather.

Wrench97 · May 7, 2021

BlackLS2 said:
I made a home made one out of an ABS toilet flange, ABS clean out cap, Tiki torch wick, wire, and baby oil. Not commercial grade obviously, used it a ton, nothing ever blew up.....yet.

Lacking a flowmeter however.

Buckgnarly · May 7, 2021

Run nitrogen and SO oil in the one at work because schools pays for it, run the exact same machine, N2, and SO oil on the exact same SO machine at home. The oil lasts FOREVER for a home shop, and my N2 tank was a roadside score and it also will last FOREVER in a home shop. It's only 30 bucks to refill the tank, and I do not have to hook up shop air so why not? IF I had to buy a new tank that would be a whole different story however.....

brichter · Jan 3, 2022

Nitrogen? Yeah, I don’t think so. There’s already s enough oxygen in the tank, if it’s going to burn, it’s going to burn. The only way to stop that from happening is to work on a tank that is absolutely full, or one that has been empty and vented for a week or so.

Looking for oil as well, the machine I have, I have owned since the late 90s and it finally ran out of oil lol. I think it had mineral oil in it because it smelled really bad, wondering if baby oil would be any better?

dnschmidt · Jan 3, 2022

Redline, and many others, make smoke machines with self contained air compressors. If this were such a safety hazard I doubt they would do that for liability reasons. Seems like some legal cover your *** ******** to me.

ScottsGT · Jan 3, 2022

I made one out of a 5 gallon homer bucket, clear hose, an air hose fitting and used cigars for the smoke. It worked.

tester19 · Jan 3, 2022

Yes it makes no sense at all and is obviously a lawyer enrichment scheme waiting to happen. As posted above didn't anybody understand that the fuel tank is ALREADY full of oxygen!! Why would blowing air into a tank cause anything to happen? it's already full of what your blowing in there??
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engineer2 · Jan 3, 2022

I built my own out of a pickle jar, old soldering iron, cotton wadding and baby oil.
My homemade brake pressure bleeder has a propane regulator on it to supply the 1 psi air.
It worked fine for the one time I needed it.
Just don't use any type of oil that has silicone in it. That would be bad for O2 sensors.

toplessHO · Jan 3, 2022

made one sometime back,maybe where above got the idea.
I use baby oil in mine. power with a 12v raft inflator pump
and 12v soldering iron.

2ndGearRubber · Jan 3, 2022

tester19 said:
Yes it makes no sense at all and is obviously a lawyer enrichment scheme waiting to happen. As posted above didn't anybody understand that the fuel tank is ALREADY full of oxygen!! Why would blowing air into a tank cause anything to happen? it's already full of what your blowing in there??
.
.
.

FWIW a fuel tank cannot ignite internally, the mixture is far too rich. That's the concern of using shop air.

I dont buy the danger either.

AJHD · Jan 3, 2022

I think that's ******** too... None of the 5 shops I worked at had nitrogen for tires, let alone for a damn smoke machine. I've never seen anyone on YouTube like Eric O' ever mention/use nitrogen while using a smoke machine. I've also seen people use baby oil or some form of mineral oil.

My opinion is more or less second hand, but overall I would suggest using whatever the manufacture of your particular smoke machine recommends.

Johnny chaos · Jan 3, 2022

Shop air....Baby oil

Bobioz1 · Jan 4, 2022

Chrysler and BMW had evap systems that pumped air in to check for leaks.

joecon · Jan 4, 2022

The GM and Chrysler machines use nitrogen. The reason is that if you use air and you have a leak in the tank you will be blowing a fuel air mix out the hole. If that was to ignite you would have a flame thrower. It is the same reason race teams use nitrogen in the pits.

AKz · Oct 27, 2022

Bought a cheap Auto smoke machine and added a regulator. Anyone else have any issues with baby oil coating things like intake? Maybe its too cheap of a machine?

kmacht · Oct 27, 2022

The gas tank is already filled with the same air in the shop and the same air your compressor uses. Where do you think the air comes from that displaces the gas removed from the tank when driving?

Baby oil is mineral oil. There is absolutely no difference. The only thing you don't want are the baby/mineral oils that are mixed with paraffin. Some baby oils do mix but most don't. Just check the ingredients lable. Airplanes use that type of mix with parafin because it makes the smoke a bit thicker and easier to see from the ground but it leaves a waxy mess on the belly of the plane. You don't want that waxy mess in the evap system.

tak1313 · Oct 27, 2022

When I was researching smoke machines, almost everything I read, pro and otherwise, said to just use baby oil. Looking at the MSDS of the "proprietary" oils seem to support that.

Same for shop air - I think I've only come across a couple of people that use nitrogen, but if I recall correctly, they worked in shops that specialized in uber-priced cars, so I think it was either an insurance thing, or just that they wanted to be ABSOLUTELY clear of liability if something happened.

My PERSONAL viewpoint is that whether its the filler pipe, evap system, etc., they're usually exposed to air somehow/sometimes, so if the oxygen in shop air was going to cause a "problem," it was more likely that it would have happened.

i ended up making my own, then came across a deal on an OTC machine. Got the OTC machine, then my daughter crashed her car (the reason why I was looking in to smoke machines - for her evap leak that no one seemed able to find). I figure "one day..."

2ndGearRubber · Oct 27, 2022

Bobioz1 said:
Chrysler and BMW had evap systems that pumped air in to check for leaks.

Kind of.

It measures current of a pump, through voltage drop actually,which pumps air through a fixed orifice. Based on how hard the pump worked to pump air through the orifice, the pcm has a real time estimate of how hard the pump needs to work to reach a given tank pressure. If it works harder than X, there's a leak of size Y. That's leak detection pump style, Chrysler also used natural vacuum decay. The pumps are pretty tiny, like smaller than a baseball. They're not pumping the system full so much as trying to raise the pressure a couple inches of water.

Any evap system I know of has fresh air access. Typically through the vent valve, ESIM switch, or leak detection pump.

toolenthusiast · Oct 27, 2022

T45 said:
OP, Nobody can answer this for YOU. This is a topic you need to accept 100% liability for and act 100% on your own responsibility. My $0.02c

I guess that’s why he’s here doing research, huh?

dnschmidt · Oct 27, 2022

Why does it need to be baby oil. What's wrong with good old USP mineral oil. That's what I use to lubricate my spray guns as I know nothing about smoke machines but why chance baby oil having some sort of contaminate in it when you can simply use pure mineral oil that by law (USP) doesn't.

2ndGearRubber · Oct 27, 2022

dnschmidt said:
Why does it need to be baby oil. What's wrong with good old USP mineral oil. That's what I use to lubricate my spray guns as I know nothing about smoke machines but why chance baby oil having some sort of contaminate in it when you can simply use pure mineral oil that by law (USP) doesn't.

It's cheap and easy to get. IDK these shops **** and can't keep proper inventory. You give them the countdown until you're out of AC dye or wheel weights,and it's a blindside when you run out. Go to a CVS, grocery store, or some gas stations and the smoke machine is back in business.

Mechanics tell the truth: Smoke Machines!

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