Have Craftsman tools become the lowest quality tools?

deberly12 · Jul 28, 2017

I had some points and coupon and the Craftsman 118 pc tool set was on sale. After points I paid 20 so it was still a good deal but....

I opened it up and there was something in one of the deep well sockets. It was really jammed in there so I knocked it by driving something through it. It appears to be some sort of ceramic. Unfortunately the chrome was off underneath it and it was rusty. There was also another socket that had rust spots on it. These two will go back to be replaced. I'm not a polisher but my old cman set has been beat around the farm for 10 years and no rust.

Then I noticed that they made a change to the deep well sockets. The hex does not go the whole way to the square. It stops about a third of the way down. I guess that is to make them cheaper. The last picture shows a new one next to an old Craftsman of the same size. You can see the hex ones much farther on the old one.

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jdlong · Jul 28, 2017

I have a set of Cman metric deeps. They have corroded inside which is not good. The semi deep broaching of the flats is so you can insert a nut and not have it bottom out to the end of the socket making it easy to engage it to the bolt. Some deep sockets such as Gearwrench and Husky have their broaching only nut deep for this reason.

davethorik · Jul 28, 2017

Become? Lol the USA made 36t rp ratchets were turds, especially toward the end of US production. I have never handled the Chinese version but I can't believe they make it any better.

The ceramic is probably from media tumbling to deburr parts after being machined, and got overlooked.

Also, broach depth varies by manufacturer. Wright deep well sockets are broached all the way down, yet SK and older Mac are not.

kd3pc · Jul 28, 2017

$20 for the set, even $50 is a great buy for these tools.

You get what you pay for.

I don't think that the 6 point only part way down is new...IIRC some of my older C-man stuff is that way. Will have to check.

bests

jdlong · Jul 28, 2017

I checked my SK's and the broaching is only nut deep.

I agree that 20 bucks for that set is one hell of a deal.

PelicanPines · Jul 28, 2017

Honestly would not waste my time returning a rusty socket... I have rust remover. Seriously ... what's your time worth... un-rusted sockets work just fine.

JazzBlueRT · Jul 28, 2017

Was the set factory sealed? Was there a silica gel pack in there?

Most likely a customer return. Bring the rusted socket to Sears and say "I am not satisfied with this product" and they will replace it.

From the Craftsman warranty "If this Craftsman (or Craftsman Industrial) hand tool ever fails to provide complete satisfaction, it will be repaired or replaced free of charge."

Nothing else needs to be said the the person working there. Too many people walk in and give long winded stories about how the tool is defective and triggers the sears employee's BS detector and they pushback.

if a manager pushes back, politely remind him that the warranty expressed is backed by the law and that he is required by law to exchange or replace the part.

Brick Axelrod · Jul 28, 2017

They have gone way down hill from when I first started as a mechanic.

derosa · Jul 28, 2017

Those ratchets **** but then they always have, as to the rest of the stuff I wouldn't say its that bad, nothing to write home about but well worth the price you paid. Never can decide on the full broaching on deep sockets. When it came to axle nuts on a quality bmx bike with pegs it is the best, past that I've had I think two other times where I shoved something in the socket to help with setting the nut so I'm not certain its that useful, 99% of the time I can start the but by hand. Probably had an equal number of times that style wouldn't work where clearance required having the bolt go into the socket all the way to get it undone.

Codejack · Jul 28, 2017

Maybe we need a timeframe on this?

My Dad used to swear by Craftsman; in fact, despite his annoyance at my interest in things mechanical, he bought me my first combination wrench set from Sears (1992, maybe?, which I followed up with my first socket set (probably 1994), all US-made.

Here are the remnants of the wrench set:

I never liked the feel of them, I was never impressed with their quality (note the marks on the open end), several were lost but more were broken and simply discarded rather than waste time taking them back to Sears.

The socket set I wound up literally throwing in the trash after breaking 3 sockets, the original and 2 replacements, on a bolt, and not a stuck or particularly difficult bolt, without ever getting the job done.

----------------------------------------

I'm sure that, at some time in the past, Craftsman made good wrenches and sockets, and in some lines or departments, they might still make some decent stuff, but they have been utter garbage for at least 25 years.

deberly12 · Jul 28, 2017

Well I am comparing them to my first set that was about 10 years ago. The broaching in them was at the bottom and many times I need it that way. I guess I see the point but whatever. The RP ratchets get a really bad name because they aren't fine tooth but they aren't supposed to be. They are crazy strong. I know I have put over 1000 ft lbs into my old 1/2 inch and never had a problem. I had a 4 foot pipe on it and literally bounced on the end. Didn't hurt the socket or the wrench. IDK what you were doing Codejack but I have only ever broken one of their sockets and that was serious abuse....I didn't even ask them to warranty it. As I said I know it was a good deal but it has gotten so bad that I will only buy them if they are cheaper than any one else including pittsburg. I bout this because I wanted to sockets to start to fill my trays in my toolbox. My other set lives in my truck and I wanted a box set. So a bunch of sockets for 20 bucks I can't loose I am mostly amazed at how far they have fallen. I always thought it was pretty hard to make a bad socket. I never thought Craftsman would fall that far. Hopefully SBD can bring them back.

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B.S.A. (ret.) · Jul 28, 2017

Gentlemen: everyone knows that at one point in time Craftsman tools were the best value on the market for non-professional use. With that said, many professional mechanics still made their living using said tools before selling their soul to the tool truck guy (no matter what brand he sold). Yes, the quality of Craftsman tools has dropped as customer demand cheaper and cheaper prices and even the tool trucks are outsourcing by re-branded overseas products and charging a premium for their warranty and service. Aren't we being a little ridiculous by whining about a 118 piece tool set with a lifetime warranty that cost only $20.00? WHISKEY/TANGO/FOXTROT...Over

Codejack · Jul 28, 2017

I think it was a 15mm socket that I broke trying to pull a caliper bolt off of a Honda. Cracked it right down the side, drove to Sears for a new one, put it on the same bolt and cracked it.

Drove to Home Depot, bought a Husky set, and kept it for about 4 years until it got stolen out of my car.

Replaced that with a Kobalt set (the old Williams stuff) that I am just now replacing ~16 years later.

Now I am buying Snap-On, Gearwrench and the best stuff from Harbor Freight.

Codejack · Jul 28, 2017

B.S.A. (ret.) said:
Gentlemen: everyone knows that at one point in time Craftsman tools were the best value on the market for non-professional use. With that said, many professional mechanics still made their living using said tools before selling their soul to the tool truck guy (no matter what brand he sold). Yes, the quality of Craftsman tools has dropped as customer demand cheaper and cheaper prices and even the tool trucks are outsourcing by re-branded overseas products and charging a premium for their warranty and service. Aren't we being a little ridiculous by whining about a 118 piece tool set with a lifetime warranty that cost only $20.00? WHISKEY/TANGO/FOXTROT...Over

Oh, absolutely!

The question was, have they become the lowest quality, and while I would not go that far, and certainly that set is worth at least as much as the base HF sets, which you won't get that cheaply, I also would not purchase Craftsman for anything that I absolutely, positively have to get done.

If you are trying to save money by working on your own car, for example, but you can send it to a shop if you can't get it done, those are perfect; if you are working in a shop, and you have to get it done, then they are not appropriate, at all.

jumbojak · Jul 28, 2017

deberly12 said:
The RP ratchets get a really bad name because they aren't fine tooth but they aren't supposed to be. They are crazy strong. I know I have put over 1000 ft lbs into my old 1/2 inch and never had a problem.

I'd grant that their 1/2 pear head isn't a bad ratchet. In 3/8 or 1/4 drive though... it's more of a frustration than they're worth. I've never had a 3/8 craftsman ratchet that didn't lock up on me and I've owned five or six over the years. I have an Auto craft round head that's better than what sears offers.

B.S.A. (ret.) · Jul 28, 2017

Codejack said:
Oh, absolutely!

The question was, have they become the lowest quality, and while I would not go that far, and certainly that set is worth at least as much as the base HF sets, which you won't get that cheaply, I also would not purchase Craftsman for anything that I absolutely, positively have to get done.

If you are trying to save money by working on your own car, for example, but you can send it to a shop if you can't get it done, those are perfect; if you are working in a shop, and you have to get it done, then they are not appropriate, at all.

Precisely!

Please reread my post. At one point, even pro's could use them. Now, when you can buy a set of 118 items for $20 WHAT DO YOU EXPECT???!!!

deberly12 · Jul 28, 2017

I get it I got a good deal....forget about the price. Normally Craftsman is around 3 times the price of say HF. I just looked at an impact socket set that was $90 and I bout the HF one that had more sockets for $20

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deberly12 · Jul 28, 2017

Like you said they used to be the best value in tools. Now they are closer to the kind of stuff you get off that one shelf of tools at the grocery store than they are to professional grade tools.

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Codejack · Jul 28, 2017

B.S.A. (ret.) said:
a set of 118 items for $20

To be fair, without his discounts and coupon, that set is $60:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001O5VXEW/?tag=atomicindus08-20

But even that is reasonable.

HF doesn't have anything really comparable, but they have a 64-piece set for $40 and a 225-piece set for $130, both of the lower-end "Pittsburgh" (non-Pro) line, which I cannot imagine are any better than the Cman, and probably worse.

deberly12 · Jul 28, 2017

The ratchets are definitely much better even the ones in those tool kits are 72 tooth... The sockets are pretty good but not necessarily better.

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The Fall · Jul 28, 2017

B.S.A. (ret.) said:
Gentlemen: everyone knows that at one point in time Craftsman tools were the best value on the market for non-professional use. With that said, many professional mechanics still made their living using said tools before selling their soul to the tool truck guy (no matter what brand he sold). Yes, the quality of Craftsman tools has dropped as customer demand cheaper and cheaper prices and even the tool trucks are outsourcing by re-branded overseas products and charging a premium for their warranty and service. Aren't we being a little ridiculous by whining about a 118 piece tool set with a lifetime warranty that cost only $20.00? WHISKEY/TANGO/FOXTROT...Over

Yeah. And I know a few mechanics who still use USA Craftsman sockets to this day (and they've been wrenching for years -- they just refuse to pop for truck sockets). I work part time at a garage and I still use USA Craftsman sockets and I have no desire to upgrade (SK and Snap-On for ratchets and wrenches).

To the OP: Good luck on getting those (or anything) warrantied, regardless of issue. My experience with Sears lately on exchanges has been horrible. It's all up to the store/employee/manager, but when you'd take something to Sears up until a few years ago to be exchanged, they'd look at you funny for even asking: "Of course, just leave the tool here and grab a new one." Nowadays, the'll hit you with nonsense about a receipt for CMan (I know that's the deal with Evolv). Not intending to start a tangent about returns -- I only exchanged two tools to Sears in my life and purchased WAY too many (same could be said for my dad). The last one I got hit with receipt nonsense and never returned to that location. Sears used to have the easiest broken tool exchange policy. Now I think Tekton has from what I've read on here.

deberly12 · Jul 28, 2017

So far I have had amazing experience with Sears warranty on hand tools. The last time they even let me get a 6pt to replace a 12 pt...I don't like 12pt but that is a story for another day....on other things it has been hit and miss. I had a Craftsman chain saw that had the bar bearing go bad after 2 weeks I told them and they handed me a whole new saw...other than that power and pneumatic warranty is like pulling teeth. On the bright side your local Ace should honor the lifetime warranty also I will probably be trying it at Ace in the next few days.

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SMKS · Jul 28, 2017

Have Craftsman tools become the lowest quality tools?
No. There's way worse stuff out there.

Those things from inside the socket look like media from a vibratory polisher.

Here's a video of one in action, although it's a different shape of media here:

The Fall · Jul 28, 2017

deberly12 said:
So far I have had amazing experience with Sears warranty on hand tools. The last time they even let me get a 6pt to replace a 12 pt...I don't like 12pt but that is a story for another day....on other things it has been hit and miss. I had a Craftsman chain saw that had the bar bearing go bad after 2 weeks I told them and they handed me a whole new saw...other than that power and pneumatic warranty is like pulling teeth. On the bright side your local Ace should honor the lifetime warranty also I will probably be trying it at Ace in the next few days.

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That's great to hear. Luckily, there are two other locations nearby and one did honor the warranty. And that's why I go to that location when I need something. I still go to Sears a couple times per month. Still plenty of good CMan products, albeit dwindling -- USA hammers and prybars. WF pliers were blown out and I'm expecting the punches and cold chisels to be gone soon as well.

shawndp · Jul 28, 2017

There probably are worse made tools out there, but the Craftsman brand carries a certain expectation. There are many who learned how to wrench using those tools - myself included. Last month I purchased a 3/8 shallow set with a ratchet for $10 and the quality and finish is sub-par to say the least, but it works and as JazzBlue pointed out comes with a proper warranty. I still complete revenue jobs using the aforementioned set, so the $10 for me and the $20 for the OP is money well spent.

Mikeske · Jul 28, 2017

I had Craftsman ratchets and sockets for well over 35 years and it is the old USA stuff, I never bought the newer stuff for my home use and I had Bonney tools for my work tools.

Once Bonney stopped selling tools I then went and as tools would be break or get lost I replaced the stuff with whatever brand that I found in the pawn shops, flea markets, swap meets. I always tried to find old Bonney tools but if not it would be any of the old USA made tools.

The Craftsman tools I had at home are still performing all my needs in retirement along with the Bonney tools but I actually never cared about the Craftsman ratchets and the ones I have just kind of just sit in my toolbox and I loan them out to neighbors as needed. The old raised panel ratchets actually still work fine but for me the feel is rough and I like the feel of different ratchets.

The quality of the newer Craftsman stuff is just not what even near what the old stuff was and I have been known to buy Harbor Freight Pittsburgh Pro stuff for replacements of some of my broken sockets.

Jtels85 · Jul 28, 2017

My 1/2" Craftsman micro-click(?) torque wrench failed on me a couple weeks ago while torquing the lugs on my car, which resulted in losing my balance and slamming my face into the fender. While it has many negative reviews on Sears website, I took it back under the 1 year warranty and they replaced it with a new one. No hassle, no problems. I've never been given a hard time trying to warranty tools at Sears. I have been in there and witness people arguing with the salesman about getting a brand new ratchet to replace an old one they brought it. They haven't done that for years as they now replace walk-in's with ratchets rebuilt in the store. I can't blame them... too many shady people picking up roached out ratchets at garage sales for a couple bucks a piece and trying to pull a fast one. They ruined it for everyone else.

The Fall · Jul 28, 2017

shawndp said:
There probably are worse made tools out there, but the Craftsman brand carries a certain expectation. There are many who learned how to wrench using those tools - myself included.

Although my dad has made cabinetry for over forty years (and only worked on cars when he was a teenager/early 20s), to him Craftsman was the best. He knew about the truck brands, but it was like they didn't exist, partly because he was a woodworker (and not a mechanic), but also because everyone valued CMan pretty highly back then.

The Fall · Jul 28, 2017

Jtels85 said:
My 1/2" Craftsman micro-click(?) torque wrench failed on me a couple weeks ago while torquing the lugs on my car, which resulted in losing my balance and slamming my face into the fender. While it has many negative reviews on Sears website, I took it back under the 1 year warranty and they replaced it with a new one. No hassle, no problems. I've never been given a hard time trying to warranty tools at Sears. I have been in there and witness people arguing with the salesman about getting a brand new ratchet to replace an old one they brought it. They haven't done that for years as they now replace walk-in's with ratchets rebuilt in the store. I can't blame them... too many shady people picking up roached out ratchets at garage sales for a couple bucks a piece and trying to pull a fast one. They ruined it for everyone else.

It depends on the manager/location. The store that refused my tool exchange warrantied out a combo wrench that had chrome peel a couple years earlier. (It was part of the USA mechanics set my dad bought me and I wanted to exchange it when I heard COO was moving to China.) The grief I got the last time I went in -- it was pretty clear they were not interested in handling returns at that location, demanding a receipt for proof of purchase. Perhaps incidentally, this location is really dead (even by Sears standards). I've never returned a tool that I didn't originally purchase or was a gift. Then again, it's rare that I've done so. I've heard of people returning pawn shop/garage sale sockets/tools found at the bottom of the ocean, but I've never known anyone to do it. Undoubtedly, people did.

derosa · Jul 28, 2017

B.S.A. (ret.) said:
Gentlemen: everyone knows that at one point in time Craftsman tools were the best value on the market for non-professional use. With that said, many professional mechanics still made their living using said tools before selling their soul to the tool truck guy (no matter what brand he sold). Yes, the quality of Craftsman tools has dropped as customer demand cheaper and cheaper prices and even the tool trucks are outsourcing by re-branded overseas products and charging a premium for their warranty and service. Aren't we being a little ridiculous by whining about a 118 piece tool set with a lifetime warranty that cost only $20.00? WHISKEY/TANGO/FOXTROT...Over

It is a good question of when did they really go downhill. I've got a set of their professional line wrenches for doing brake line, first time I used them you could watch the wrench spread. Not even the raised panel but the polished line, ended up using a regular wrench to finish installing the brake lines. I plan on buying a set of SK or Wright when I do the brakes on my mazda5 and Volvo 262 this fall. Had better luck with sockets but cracked a 19mm trying to loosen a lug but, jumping on the bar cracked the impact socket. Sears warrantied both but both we from the early/ mid 90s. Even had the square end of a 1/2-3/8 piece tear off using a ratchet on a stuck bolt, socket was a 12 or 13 mm so not high torque, that one was much older, some time in the 80s. Even have a 70s raised panel, doesn't feel a whole lot different from a new one. I still think 20s a steal but maybe I'm too young but to me craftsman's quality was always spotty, I just didn't know there was better.

kythri · Jul 29, 2017

derosa said:
It is a good question of when did they really go downhill.

I don't think it's a question that will ever be answered to any kind of statistically relevant consensus.

When I joined this board over 10 years ago, if you were to listen to the "Truck Tools Are The Only Thing Allowed To Call Themselves Tools" crowd that existed at the time, Craftsman had either always been horrible, or been horrible since the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's etc.

It's all over the board.

Raised panel ratchets always sucked
Raised panel ratchets haven't been good since they got rid of the oil ball
Raised panel ratchets started sucking as soon as they made the selector gear plastic
Raised panel ratchets haven't been decent since they were made in the USA
Etc.
Etc.

I bought much of my Craftsman stuff early on (say, a bit around 2000, and more heavily around 2007-2010).

By a LOT of statements made around this forum, my Craftsman is among the worst of the US-produced stuff, having been made by Danaher/Apex, but I've had minimal issue with it. I haven't spread an open end wrench, I haven't busted a socket, etc.

I certainly see a lower (to me, at least) aesthetic in some of the new Asian-produced Craftsman. As an example, I really can't stand the look of the lobster claw wrenches, and now that the stuff is no longer made in the USA, I won't go out of my way to pay a premium on it.

I mean, that's not to say that, in a pinch, if I need something for a project I'm knee-deep in, and the only place I can get it is Sears, and the only brand is Hecho en China Craftsman, I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face.

Maybe it's that aesthetic, maybe that it's that I've already acquired most/all of the Craftsman hardline that I really needed/wanted, but I really don't look at Craftsman as a brand I'm interested in acquiring any new items from any longer, BUT:

There's plenty of statements by folks on this forum that have bought newer, Asian-production Craftsman that attest that they've had great success with the stuff.

So, has the quality truly dropped? Or have the attitudes/tastes of longer-time tool users simply "matured" to where they want what they perceive to be "better" and they judge Craftsman to that new metric?

I've argued multiple times that there's nothing "wrong" with a raised panel ratchet. They work well enough, and I haven't had too many issues with them reversing themselves (and certainly, no issues like that after cleaning and re-lubing), but out of my easily 100+ ratchets, I don't often reach for them anymore. There's certainly better ratchets out there, and as time has passed, I've found several of them, and prefer them over the old stand-by.

I still don't think they're particularly "low quality", though.

To each their own.

Gmonkee · Jul 29, 2017

Yup. Age and perspective play a big part. Any brand or maker.

I remember when SK was dreck you left at rummage sales unless you wanted the box.
Under a new owner it has come back to pride. And a lot of investment that the old owners refused to make.

CM can do the same under the SBD unbrella and they already have the facilities in place. Just awaiting some slow legalities to be sorted out.

I read here that CM like packaging is on the Sears shelves now with a generic brand so the long time customer sees something familiar without the name getting dragged down further. Sears should have done that a decade ago.
They could have gotten far more selling the CM brand off.

deberly12 · Jul 29, 2017

An update for everybody. Ace is not a good warranty location. Their contract spells out that they can only replace identical serial numbers. Most of there loose sockets bare the Lazer etched ones...so anything not Lazer etched they can't replace.

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Wamsutta · Jul 29, 2017

Those ceramic polishing stones are cool and it's a rare occurrence for them to make their way out of the factory. I'd keep them.

Codejack · Jul 29, 2017

kythri said:
I don't think it's a question that will ever be answered to any kind of statistically relevant consensus.

When I joined this board over 10 years ago, if you were to listen to the "Truck Tools Are The Only Thing Allowed To Call Themselves Tools" crowd that existed at the time, Craftsman had either always been horrible, or been horrible since the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's etc.

It's all over the board.
.
.
.
I bought much of my Craftsman stuff early on (say, a bit around 2000, and more heavily around 2007-2010).

Interesting; I bought my Cman stuff 1992-1994, and it was garbage.

I wonder if they were trying to cut corners while keeping production in USA, found the poor quality was costing them more money and changed back before outsourcing?

c39er · Jul 29, 2017

Codejack said:
I think it was a 15mm socket that I broke trying to pull a caliper bolt off of a Honda. Cracked it right down the side, drove to Sears for a new one, put it on the same bolt and cracked it.

Drove to Home Depot, bought a Husky set, and kept it for about 4 years until it got stolen out of my car.

Replaced that with a Kobalt set (the old Williams stuff) that I am just now replacing ~16 years later.

Now I am buying Snap-On, Gearwrench and the best stuff from Harbor Freight.

Just a quick note...
Honda's only use 14MM and 17MM bolts to mount the calipers and brackets on their cars.
I myself have used Craftsman ratchets, sockets and wrenches for over 40 years as a mechanic but would not buy the current craftsman tools.
They are junk.

Codejack · Jul 29, 2017

c39er said:
Honda's only use 14MM and 17MM bolts to mount the calipers and brackets on their cars.

To be fair, this was 20 years ago, on a 10-year-old Honda at the time; I may have mis-remembered, or maybe they used a different size 30 years ago

c39er said:
I myself have used Craftsman ratchets, sockets and wrenches for over 40 years as a mechanic but would not buy the current craftsman tools.
They are junk.

What's the cheapest stuff you would buy? Just curious.

erty67 · Jul 29, 2017

I caught on to a recent Facebook conversation about the best tools to buy without going snap on and the battle seems to be between Craftsman and Cornwell. It appears in the real world a lot of people are still believers.

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Yarpo · Jul 29, 2017

erty67 said:
I caught on to a recent Facebook conversation about the best tools to buy without going snap on and the battle seems to be between Craftsman and Cornwell. It appears in the real world a lot of people are still believers.

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Heh, those people might be off their rocker then :dunno:

I would/will buy more gearwrench, tekton, SK, and probably even pittsburg pro before I really buy more craftsman stuff, depending on the tool of course.

I got the same set as OP for Christmas two or three years ago. The sockets are fine, used a bunch of them this week. Those ratchets however feel like the teeth had rocks mixed in with them, and the finish on them is so poor I don't even wanna look at them

Also, about a month ago I got some crazy deals online at sears, something like their big flex head, 1/2inch drive ratchet was on sale for 16.99 and the flex head 3/8th ratchet for like 10.99, of the two ratchets, one of them showed up not even working. The ratchet spins about 10 clicks before the selector gets stuck in the middle and it jams up. Its sitting in the drawer, not sure if I'll warranty it or let it die, sad state of affairs for them

deberly12 · Jul 29, 2017

c39er said:
Just a quick note...
Honda's only use 14MM and 17MM bolts to mount the calipers and brackets on their cars.
I myself have used Craftsman ratchets, sockets and wrenches for over 40 years as a mechanic but would not buy the current craftsman tools.
They are junk.

You may be misremembering that...that would be crazy overkill for Honda caliper bolts. My f250 powerstroke has either M12 or M14 to hold the caliper on. Honda's **** though...except the ATVs. I will say my ATV brake pads are almost an exact match for the ones on a Toyota Camry. I had my old mechanic tell me he almost mixed them up lol. I got to use my new pittsburg ratchet today. It was the one that come in the 21 PC set. It was so smooth. I will only go to my Craftsmans when I need a cheater pipe lol. One of these I will get a good breaker bar.

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Have Craftsman tools become the lowest quality tools?

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