APEX (Armstrong) Tool Warranty - NOT HAPPY

SirNik84 · Nov 8, 2017

I bought all 3 of the Armstrong Maxx ratchet line about 2 years ago. I love them! But the 1/4 never worked right. It would ratchet 3 or 4 times then the selector would get jammed and the ratcheting would stop. I took it apart and cleaned it and it would do the same thing. The only way to get the selector unstuck was to take it apart. I finally decided that I would just warranty it. I don't live near any dealers, I bought it online. In hind site I should have driven to Fastenal. Instead I mailed my ratchet to APEX corporate. It took them over a month, but I got a package in the mail yesterday and I open it to find Armstrong tool part # 10-944 a 1/4 drive handle. I sent them part # 10-994. I just got off the phone with APEX and according to the lady on the phone they no longer make the Armstrong Maxx ratchets. So she will kindly mail me a Gearwrench "equivalent" I pointed out that I paid extra to own Armstrong because they were made in the USA and were suppose to be warrantied. She said "this is the best I can do." :sad:

I see the Armstrong Maxx 1/4 # 10-994 on Amazon, so still for sale. I don't know if shes blowing smoke up my back side, but I'm upset. I'm not sure what the best course of action is. I could buy another Armstrong, but the one I bought originally never worked right. Anyone have a Gearwrench long handle flex-locking head 1/4 ratchet? are they truly equivalent to the Armstrong? The other Armstrong Maxx ratchets, 1/2 and 3/8 are my go to tools. But this 1/4 has been nothing but trouble.

noid · Nov 8, 2017

SirNik84 said:
I bought all 3 of the Armstrong Maxx ratchet line about 2 years ago. I love them! But the 1/4 never worked right. It would ratchet 3 or 4 times then the selector would get jammed and the ratcheting would stop. I took it apart and cleaned it and it would do the same thing. The only way to get the selector unstuck was to take it apart. I finally decided that I would just warranty it. I don't live near any dealers, I bought it online. In hind site I should have driven to Fastenal. Instead I mailed my ratchet to APEX corporate. It took them over a month, but I got a package in the mail yesterday and I open it to find Armstrong tool part # 10-944 a 1/4 drive handle. I sent them part # 10-994. I just got off the phone with APEX and according to the lady on the phone they no longer make the Armstrong Maxx ratchets. So she will kindly mail me a Gearwrench "equivalent" I pointed out that I paid extra to own Armstrong because they were made in the USA and were suppose to be warrantied. She said "this is the best I can do."

I see the Armstrong Maxx 1/4 # 10-994 on Amazon, so still for sale. I don't know if shes blowing smoke up my back side, but I'm upset. I'm not sure what the best course of action is. I could buy another Armstrong, but the one I bought originally never worked right. Anyone have a Gearwrench long handle flex-locking head 1/4 ratchet? are they truly equivalent to the Armstrong? The other Armstrong Maxx ratchets, 1/2 and 3/8 are my go to tools. But this 1/4 has been nothing nut trouble.

If you bought it from amazon, and amazon fulfilled it, and its still available from amazon, why not buy another one and return your old one in the box?

It normally wouldn't advise it, but if they initially sold it to you, and it didn't work from the beginning, I see nothing wrong in using that approach to get a replacement. The replacement charge will find its way back to APEX from amazon.

SirNik84 · Nov 8, 2017

Its already gone. I mailed APEX the ratchet. They mailed me back the 1/4 drive handle. I didn't think to go back to Amazon because I've had it for a few years. I bought all 3: 1/2, 3/8, and 1/4 and the 1/4 just didn't get used til later.

When I buy Harbor Freight tools I be sure to use them ASAP because there is a high likely hood I'll need to take them back to the store. Didn't even think about it when I got these USA built tools. The 1/2 and 3/8 kick major ****, I didn't foresee the trouble with the 1/4.

noid · Nov 8, 2017

Any chance getting back in touch with them to request it back on the basis that they didn't return to you a sufficient replacement?

Skin · Nov 8, 2017

Armstrong is dead and they've basically turned their last US factory into a skeleton operation so no she wasn't lying to you. Thank Bain Capital for this.

SirNik84 · Nov 8, 2017

Skin said:
Armstrong is dead and they've basically turned their last US factory into a skeleton operation so no she wasn't lying to you. Thank Bain Capital for this.

Figures! Like most of us I was brought up on Craftsmen, then they started warrantying my Made in USA with Made in "Not the USA" That's when I bought the Armstrong ratchets. Feels like I jumped from one sinking ship to the next.

PureLeaf · Nov 8, 2017

I have Armstrong Maxx ratchets and love them. Unfortunate to hear this is how they're handling things since they killed armstrong. Like you said, I paid extra for USA made tools. If I'd wanted to have taiwan made tools, I would have bought gearwrench to begin with.

uncwstudent · Nov 8, 2017

Honestly, the one time I had to use Apex Tools customer service to warranty Gearwrench stuff, they were the worst. They couldn't even find the tool that I needed to replace in their system and then when I tried to contact them repeatedly after the fact, never got back to me. The only reason I even buy Gearwrench now is because you can often warranty them at AAP, or so I hear.

M6erfan · Nov 8, 2017

Yep, decent Armstrong tools being replaced with crappy (IMO) Gearwrench. The writing was on the wall a long time ago. Sorry for your loss.

BTW, I think Noid's advice of pulling a fast one on Amazon is terrible.

jonesg · Nov 8, 2017

When I get a bad tool I throw it away and forget it.
Unless it's an expensive machine, but a little wrench?
Nah. Toss em.

davethorik · Nov 8, 2017

jonesg said:
When I get a bad tool I throw it away and forget it.
Unless it's an expensive machine, but a little wrench?
Nah. Toss em.

The Armstrong Maxx ratchets weren't cheap new. You would throw $30-40 in the trash?

Op, Too bad you didn't find GJ sooner. You could have gotten a Matco rebuild kit and fixed it yourself.

yamaha0343 · Nov 8, 2017

noid said:
If you bought it from amazon, and amazon fulfilled it, and its still available from amazon, why not buy another one and return your old one in the box?

Because that's stealing and unethical. It's not Amazon's fault.

SirNik84 · Nov 8, 2017

davethorik said:
The Armstrong Maxx ratchets weren't cheap new. You would throw $30-40 in the trash?

Yeah, I paid 55-60 for it originally.

davethorik said:
Op, Too bad you didn't find GJ sooner. You could have gotten a Matco rebuild kit and fixed it yourself.

DAMN IT! Good to know for the other Armstrong ratchets I have. I'm not mailing that company anything again.

Ign · Nov 8, 2017

Consider Carlyle if you must PURCHASE a replacement.

Otherwise, this is what happens when companies go belly up. Could happen to any tool any of us own. It ***** but I’d move on w life. If they’ll send you a GW, at least they’re trying. But they should have returned your ENTIRE tool

noid · Nov 8, 2017

yamaha0343 said:
Because that's stealing and unethical. It's not Amazon's fault.

I said, if and only if, he originally purchased it from amazon, and it was fulfilled and sold by amazon. In such case, the party that would be burden to the cost of replacement would be APEX as a supplier to amazon.

In such case, amazon would have initially sold him a faulty ratchet.

M6erfan · Nov 8, 2017

noid said:
I said, if and only if, he originally purchased it from amazon, and it was fulfilled and sold by amazon. In such case, the party that would be burden to the cost of replacement would be APEX as a supplier to amazon.

In such case, amazon would have initially sold him a faulty ratchet.

A buyer has 30 days to return something at AMZN. After that warranty is direct with the manufacturer. Try and justify it anyway you want, buying a replacement and returning the old one is unethical. It's **** like this that cost companies billions of dollars per year.

plinker · Nov 8, 2017

Found out a couple weeks ago that my broken 12-973 would be replaced with a Gearwrench equivlent. not really happy either, but something IS better then nothing.
I could rebuild it (broken pawl) if I could find a kit, but those are going to cost more then the GW replacement. It's annoying as I really like the handle on it.

PureLeaf · Nov 8, 2017

Ign said:
Consider Carlyle if you must PURCHASE a replacement.

Otherwise, this is what happens when companies go belly up. Could happen to any tool any of us own. It ***** but I’d move on w life. If they’ll send you a GW, at least they’re trying. But they should have returned your ENTIRE tool

Pretty sure Carlyle tools are made in Taiwan. Seems like OP prefers USA made tools.

I disagree that they're trying. Trying would have been having a significant stock on hand for years and years of warranty replacements for customers that expected "lifetime warranty" to mean something.

If you bought a premium tool made in a particular country, and paid a premium price, and its replaced with a cheaper tool, made in a country that has cheaper labor and generally considered to produce items of lesser quality, is that acceptable? I personally think no.

7avalon7 · Nov 8, 2017

PureLeaf said:
Pretty sure Carlyle tools are made in Taiwan. Seems like OP prefers USA made tools.

I disagree that they're trying. Trying would have been having a significant stock on hand for years and years of warranty replacements for customers that expected "lifetime warranty" to mean something.

If you bought a premium tool made in a particular country, and paid a premium price, and its replaced with a cheaper tool, made in a country that has cheaper labor and generally considered to produce items of lesser quality, is that acceptable? I personally think no.

Just so I understand, so you are expecting that they have significant stock on hand AND have someone working for 5yr, 10yr, 20yr, (forever?) after they close to deal with warranty?

jakemac · Nov 8, 2017

PureLeaf said:
Pretty sure Carlyle tools are made in Taiwan. Seems like OP prefers USA made tools.

I disagree that they're trying. Trying would have been having a significant stock on hand for years and years of warranty replacements for customers that expected "lifetime warranty" to mean something.

If you bought a premium tool made in a particular country, and paid a premium price, and its replaced with a cheaper tool, made in a country that has cheaper labor and generally considered to produce items of lesser quality, is that acceptable? I personally think no.

You're assuming that the company cares about its customers. APEX/Bain doesn't. They only care about sales. Once it's sold, you're on your own. Customer Service and Warrantys have been an issue with this company for some time when dealing directly with the company. Dealing with the distributors can be a better experience, depending on the company and if they have a replacement in stock.

Now that Armstrong is a dead brand, that will be harder as stock dwindles.

My advice to the OP'er is count it up to a learning experience and go buy S•K.
They've committed to staying in the US and they care about their customers.

Ign · Nov 8, 2017

PureLeaf said:
Pretty sure Carlyle tools are made in Taiwan. Seems like OP prefers USA made tools.

I disagree that they're trying. Trying would have been having a significant stock on hand for years and years of warranty replacements for customers that expected "lifetime warranty" to mean something.

If you bought a premium tool made in a particular country, and paid a premium price, and its replaced with a cheaper tool, made in a country that has cheaper labor and generally considered to produce items of lesser quality, is that acceptable? I personally think no.

If he's gonna settle for GW, Carlyle would be a considerable step up.

I'm glad you disagree on the other points.

Ign · Nov 8, 2017

7avalon7 said:
Just so I understand, so you are expecting that they have significant stock on hand AND have someone working for 5yr, 10yr, 20yr, (forever?) after they close to deal with warranty?

Yep, it's like expecting someone to pay a large debt after they die. Sure, you can try to go after their estate but the fact is once a person or company is gone, they're gone. It's literally all over but the cryin'.

cliftonbros89 · Nov 8, 2017

Aren't the guts of the Armstrong Maxx supposed to be the same as the Matco 88? If you know of a local Matco dealer ask if you can compare and buy a repair kit from them. Or I'm sure you could get one from Matco online.

I have an Armstrong Maxx 1/4" and 3/8". My 3/8" is the same. It's junk. Locks up all the time. I've tried different lube. I've tried no lube. Doesn't matter. I asked my Matco dealer about it and he said we can take a look at it some time to compare and if it works he'll just give me a repair kit.

But regardless Armstrong is dead. Believe me I'm disappointed too. I've got 3 Armstrong ratchets, SAE double box ratchet wrench set, 3/8" socket set, and several 1/2" crowfoot wrenches. But that's the way of the world. Once the ratchet goes out in the ratchet wrenches I still have the box end. If the Matco repairs kits do work I can get a few of the for the ratchets. If the crowfoot wrenches break. Oh well, I've got more.

Over all I'd say let this be a lesson on some online tool purchases. It can makes these warranties difficult. That also making another reason as to why I like SK and Snap On as much as I do.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

M6erfan · Nov 8, 2017

jakemac said:
My advice to the OP'er is count it up to a learning experience and go buy S•K.
They've committed to staying in the US and they care about their customers.

I'm sure Armstrong was committed to staying in business too.

There's no guarantee that SK, (or Snap On, or Craftsman, Harbor Freight, etc.) will be around in 5yrs (I hope they are) and then your right back to this scenario again.

Look, there is no guarantee in anything. Lifetime warranties especially.

nollij · Nov 8, 2017

SirNik84 said:
I bought all 3 of the Armstrong Maxx ratchet line about 2 years ago. I love them! But the 1/4 never worked right. It would ratchet 3 or 4 times then the selector would get jammed and the ratcheting would stop. I took it apart and cleaned it and it would do the same thing. The only way to get the selector unstuck was to take it apart. I finally decided that I would just warranty it. I don't live near any dealers, I bought it online. In hind site I should have driven to Fastenal. Instead I mailed my ratchet to APEX corporate. It took them over a month, but I got a package in the mail yesterday and I open it to find Armstrong tool part # 10-944 a 1/4 drive handle. I sent them part # 10-994. I just got off the phone with APEX and according to the lady on the phone they no longer make the Armstrong Maxx ratchets. So she will kindly mail me a Gearwrench "equivalent" I pointed out that I paid extra to own Armstrong because they were made in the USA and were suppose to be warrantied. She said "this is the best I can do."

I see the Armstrong Maxx 1/4 # 10-994 on Amazon, so still for sale. I don't know if shes blowing smoke up my back side, but I'm upset. I'm not sure what the best course of action is. I could buy another Armstrong, but the one I bought originally never worked right. Anyone have a Gearwrench long handle flex-locking head 1/4 ratchet? are they truly equivalent to the Armstrong? The other Armstrong Maxx ratchets, 1/2 and 3/8 are my go to tools. But this 1/4 has been nothing but trouble.

Mine does the same thing. Basically, the material around the selector does not prevent it from over-travelling and jamming the pawl. An Armstrong repair kit won't fix the issue and a Matco only will if there is some additional material around the pawl that prevents the over-travel.

7avalon7 · Nov 8, 2017

Ign said:
Yep, it's like expecting someone to pay a large debt after they die. Sure, you can try to go after their estate but the fact is once a person or company is gone, they're gone. It's literally all over but the cryin'.

M6erfan said:
I'm sure Apex was committed to staying in business too.

There's no guarantee that SK, (or Snap On, or Craftsman, etc.) will be around in 5yrs (I hope they are) and then your right back to this scenario again.

Look, there is no guarantee in anything. Lifetime warranties especially.

@M6erfan said it perfectly :bowdown:

toolenthusiast · Nov 8, 2017

My Matco 1/4" rebuild kit was $18 and it comes with a lifetime warranty, in case it helps anyone who finds this thread in the future.

Sal Bandini · Nov 8, 2017

Threads like these reaffirm my belief that warranties are one of the least important criteria when picking tools.

Ole Slewfoot · Nov 8, 2017

So, how does the GW ratchet work?

MaverickDMD · Nov 8, 2017

+1 to Sal Bandini

L.Cheapo · Nov 8, 2017

Sal Bandini said:
Threads like these reaffirm my belief that warranties are one of the least important criteria when picking tools.

IMO, it strongly depends on who backs the warranty.

M6erfan · Nov 8, 2017

L.Cheapo said:
IMO, it strongly depends on who backs the warranty.

No, it doesnt.

See post #24 above...

L.Cheapo · Nov 8, 2017

M6erfan said:
No, it doesnt.

See post #24 above...

Given their 97 year track record, I don't worry about the warranty on my Snap On tools not being valid for my lifetime. But I don't buy them for the warranty.

The rest...well...you pay your money, you take your chances.

Sal Bandini · Nov 8, 2017

How long was Craftsman around for? If you base warranty on age of company/trademark, then you may be disappointed.

If Snap On decides in a few years that to remain competitive it has to off-shore its production, the internet will crash from all of the complaining threads on this forum.

stercorarius · Nov 8, 2017

Imho I agree that it depends on who backs the warranty. Two years ago and today I would buy a snap on/proto/Mac/sk tool before anything Apex and did and do. Sure no one is guaranteed to be around forever, but I'm still going to factor in warranty. They all have some variation of a lifetime warranty, so I would choose a company that is likely to still be around to warranty a tool. Not a whole lot of people shocked that Armstrong is disappearing. I have confidence in my proto warranty because I believe they're going to be around for a while. It helps that I can still get drop in rebuild kits for prewar plombs because they still make the same exact design in chrome. Same with snap-on and to a lesser extent SK. I don't buy a lot of Cornwell and expect them to be around to warranty forever. I mean unless you have some insider info on proto that would suggest that they will go under before the time frame that a manufacturing defect shows up.

Sal Bandini · Nov 8, 2017

L.Cheapo · Nov 8, 2017

Sal Bandini said:
How long was Craftsman around for? If you base warranty on age of company/trademark, then you may be disappointed.

If SnapOn decides in a few years that to remain competitive it has to off-shore it's production, the internet will crash from all of the complaining threads on this forum.

Historically, how many tools has Craftsman manufactured? How many factories do they own? You really can't compare a retail rebranding entity tied to appliance and clothing sales with a direct manufacturer. With SBD now involved, we'll have to wait and see.

Anything's possible, but I don't see Snap On hardline tools being made anywhere other than where they are now--its a large part of their branding, marketing, and success.

You're probably right about the internet though.

SirNik84 · Nov 8, 2017

nollij said:
Mine does the same thing. Basically, the material around the selector does not prevent it from over-travelling and jamming the pawl. An Armstrong repair kit won't fix the issue and a Matco only will if there is some additional material around the pawl that prevents the over-travel.

This is EXACTLY what was going on with the ratchet. I used it once about 4 months after buying it and it locket up. Put it aside and about a week later I tried it with different grease, oil, etc to see if that would help but on closer look it looked like a design flaw. I thought, being a more higher end tool company, they might have a fix for it. Thats why I sent it back.

I'm upset over the whole thing, but not shocked by it. I suppose the GearWrench replacement is better then a stick in the eye. Maybe the Taiwanese engineer caught this problem and fixed it. Who knows it may be better. I'm not a USA purest. But I try and buy the best tools I can afford, and a good warranty use to be part of that. Buying "local" at least in my home country where I can speak to the company when something fails also seems like a good idea. But it seems these days you can't depend on anything. The whole world has a throw it away and replace it mindset. So price point is really important because you'll be buying it again in a few years. :sad:

M6erfan · Nov 8, 2017

Buying from a major brand thats been around for a century definitely helps one feel a bit more secure with the purchase, I agree. But there's no guarantee...

Duro-Indestro was in business for nearly 7 decades, and AFAIK offered a lifetime warranty on their hand tools.

New Britain Tools is another one, almost a century then ******

Just sayin'

jakemac · Nov 8, 2017

M6erfan said:
I'm sure Apex was committed to staying in business too.

There's no guarantee that SK, (or Snap On, or Craftsman, Harbor Freight, etc.) will be around in 5yrs (I hope they are) and then your right back to this scenario again.

Look, there is no guarantee in anything. Lifetime warranties especially.

Apex IS still in business. It was their US made Armstrong brand that they killed off in favor of their Imported Gearwrench brand.

I agree in no guarantees in life.

Sal Bandini said:
Threads like these reaffirm my belief that warranties are one of the least important criteria when picking tools.

YUP !

If it falls apart when I get it home, then I'll take it back.
After I use it once ............. I eat it and buy something else.

stercorarius said:
Imho I agree that it depends on who backs the warranty. Two years ago and today I would buy a snap on/proto/Mac/sk tool before anything Apex and did and do. Sure no one is guaranteed to be around forever, but I'm still going to factor in warranty. They all have some variation of a lifetime warranty, so I would choose a company that is likely to still be around to warranty a tool. Not a whole lot of people shocked that Armstrong is disappearing. I have confidence in my proto warranty because I believe they're going to be around for a while. It helps that I can still get drop in rebuild kits for prewar plombs because they still make the same exact design in chrome. Same with snap-on and to a lesser extent SK. I don't buy a lot of Cornwell and expect them to be around to warranty forever. I mean unless you have some insider info on proto that would suggest that they will go under before the time frame that a manufacturing defect shows up.

Brands are bought and sold all the time, Proto (originally Plomb, is now owned by SBD) could be sold off at any time. There is no guarantee that the new owner won't change the designs and stop supporting the old stock, or kill the brand altogether in order to promote another label under their umbrella.

OR - SBD could decide that Proto and another brand they own are diluting each other's sales, so they kill one of the brands to shore up the other.

L.Cheapo said:
Historically, how many tools has Craftsman manufactured? How many factories do they own? You really can't compare a retail rebranding entity tied to appliance and clothing sales with a direct manufacturer. With SBD now involved, we'll have to wait and see.

Anything's possible, but I don't see Snap On hardline tools being made anywhere other than where they are now--its a large part of their branding, marketing, and success.

You're probably right about the internet though.

back to the no guarantees in life argument. 5/10/30/50 years from now, who knows what SnapOn will decide. The Craftsman brand was also built up as a Made In USA, buy into the quality brand as well. Then a shyster took over and betrayed that implied promise. He lined his pockets and confidence in the brand went to sh**.

APEX (Armstrong) Tool Warranty - NOT HAPPY

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