converting traditional garage opener to 8500 style

EVOLVO · Dec 26, 2017

I couldn't figure out how to search this subject. If it's been discussed please share a link.

What I'm thinking about trying is converting my traditional center mount
GD opener to work like a Liftmaster 8500 style. Mine is a chain drive so I figure I could mount a chain wheel on the spring tension rod, make a mounting bracket to hold the motor, adjust the chain length, play with spring tension and away we go.

Figuring out gear reduction might be a stumbling block.

Anyone else tried this? Did it work? What say GJ?

Hot Rod Grampa · Dec 26, 2017

Interesting but why not just buy the unit all engineered correctly? A few issues to consider. How would you disconnect opener from door in case of power failure or emergency? Compensating for the initial torque of the motor would require a stiff brace between shafts as you see on commercial openers. The gearing would not be difficult to calculate once you know the height of your door, the diameter of drums and the drive sprocket tooth count. You can research different brand door opener companies as they usually advertise travel speed of their units. Have fun

EVOLVO · Dec 26, 2017

Well, for starters they cost $300+. I've already got the standard unit and I like to make stuff. If it works I'll be the star of GJ!! :evil:

Hilltopmasonry · Dec 26, 2017

Just curious why you want to do this?

Although I like thinking out of the box, like someone above mentioned personally I would just buy the right unit

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Zivman · Dec 26, 2017

seems like someone is trying to reinvent the wheel....

gnpenning · Dec 26, 2017

I was in a fab shop last week that did this. His is a ATS which is a commercial unit on a 18' x 12'. As mentioned there is no easy way to release the motor drive.
He has some start up issues and is in his second set of sprockets trying to dial it in. He did use pusher springs like you should. I have know idea if the springs are properly balanced..

I wasn't there for his door, even though we did talk about it.

Yes , can try and use what you have. Just be aware it wasn't designed to be used that way and you may have some fiddling to do.

MrSurly · Dec 26, 2017

I plan to do just exactly this same modification. I have four standard openers, two recent production units and two antique ODC units that are hella stout. The reason to do this is that I

1. have a high-lift door (cant use a standard center pull )
2.I have the stuff to experiment with
3. I like to do this sort of “piddling”

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EVOLVO · Dec 27, 2017

Hilltopmasonry said:
Just curious why you want to do this?

Although I like thinking out of the box, like someone above mentioned personally I would just buy the right unit

For the same reason people buy the 8500, Get rid of the opener taking up overhead room. It's a challenge, gets the gears turning, etc.

Zivman said:
seems like someone is trying to reinvent the wheel....

Not really, just using my wheel in a different way then it was meant to be used. I bet someone in R&D at Liftmaster did something similar.

gnpenning said:
I was in a fab shop last week that did this. His is a ATS which is a commercial unit on a 18' x 12'. As mentioned there is no easy way to release the motor drive.
He has some start up issues and is in his second set of sprockets trying to dial it in. He did use pusher springs like you should. I have know idea if the springs are properly balanced..

I wasn't there for his door, even though we did talk about it.

Yes , can try and use what you have. Just be aware it wasn't designed to be used that way and you may have some fiddling to do.

Any photo's you could provide would be appreciated!!!

MrSurly said:
I plan to do just exactly this same modification. I have four standard openers, two recent production units and two antique ODC units that are hella stout. The reason to do this is that I

1. have a high-lift door (cant use a standard center pull )
2.I have the stuff to experiment with
3. I like to do this sort of “piddling”

Please feel free to use this thread to share insights and/or photo's

Any more input about this?

firebirdparts · Dec 27, 2017

somebody here posted a picture of it recently, already did it.

As long as the result is within the start/stop adjustment, it'll work fine. That ought to give you the gear reduction. Try to get it so that it takes the same amount of turns on the opener sprocket to open a door.

Tbe best reason, seems to me, is all the lift masters have a bad reputation for being unreliable. There's never been one with a good reputation as far as I know.

EVOLVO · Dec 27, 2017

firebirdparts said:
somebody here posted a picture of it recently, already did it.

As long as the result is within the start/stop adjustment, it'll work fine. That ought to give you the gear reduction. Try to get it so that it takes the same amount of turns on the opener sprocket to open a door.

Tbe best reason, seems to me, is all the lift masters have a bad reputation for being unreliable. There's never been one with a good reputation as far as I know.

Any idea how to find that pic?

gnpenning · Dec 27, 2017

Firebirdparts
Tbe best reason, seems to me, is all the lift masters have a bad reputation for being unreliable. There's never been one with a good reputation as far as I know.[/QUOTE]

Please Give examples of models and issues.

I've installed Liftmaster for years. Outside the 3800/3900 and 8500, I and many others in the industry find Liftmaster openers across the lines the best out there.

gnpenning · Dec 27, 2017

Any photo's you could provide would be appreciated

Sorry, no photos. I have no idea when I'll be back to that shop.

He just bolted the power head to the wall like any jackshaft opener. Ran the drive chain to a gear on the spring shaft. His door size uses a solid shaft with a keyway. I didn't ask and he didn't offer the gear size. He did use the original chain cut to length. Your spring shaft size should be 1".

old__man · Dec 27, 2017

I googled imaged searched 'side mounted garage opener'. That was the first hit.

EVOLVO · Dec 27, 2017

Thanx Old Man!! You and YouTube to the rescue. That's exactly what I had in mind. I've been thinking about the power failure issue. I was going to mount the motor unit at chest level and use pull pins to hold it in place. If the power fails I could pull a pin or two, hinge the motor upward and disengage the chain. Not as easy as pulling a cord, but workable I think.

Just found another:

old__man · Dec 27, 2017

Please keep in mind the safety factor as well. That second video is an exposed chain and sprocket at arm level that is remotely operated. Throw some kids in there and it could be interesting.

EVOLVO · Jan 2, 2018

Moving onward. I've got my used Clopay 8 X 18 installed and working manually. Goes up and down easily and holds position at 2', 4' or 6' of opening so I think the springs are properly balanced.

Can someone please explain why the door will begin to come down when it is fully opened when using a jack shaft opener? I'm sitting looking at it fully opened and 4 of the 5 panels are completely horizontal with only the bottom panel slightly tipped down. I can't comprehend why it will close when the jack shaft starts to unwind the springs when 4/5ths of the weight is horizontal. What am I missing?

old__man · Jan 2, 2018

EVOLVO said:
Can someone please explain why the door will begin to come down when it is fully opened when using a jack shaft opener? I'm sitting looking at it fully opened and 4 of the 5 panels are completely horizontal with only the bottom panel slightly tipped down. I can't comprehend why it will close when the jack shaft starts to unwind the springs when 4/5ths of the weight is horizontal. What am I missing?

1/5ths is enough....

I think most people set the springs to be slightly 'heavy' when using a jack shaft. As well, my garage door guy recommended I put a bit of a slope on the horizontal part of the tracks.

There is also something call 'pusher springs' that people use.

EVOLVO · Jan 2, 2018

Thanx old man! I was really hoping you would respond. I'll take your word for it that it will work. Time will tell. I had thought about some springs to help get it started. By slightly heavy do you mean to relax the springs a little bit so the opener works a little harder? Thanx again!!! :thumbup:

old__man · Jan 4, 2018

EVOLVO said:
Thanx old man! I was really hoping you would respond. I'll take your word for it that it will work.

Please don't take my word. I am not a subject matter expert on the things.

time will tell. I had thought about some springs to help get it started. By slightly heavy do you mean to relax the springs a little bit so the opener works a little harder? Thanx again!!!

The way mine is set up is the door won't really stay up on it's own. I don't know if that's the wright way or the wrong way but that's the way I set mine up.

firebirdparts · Jan 4, 2018

You can slope your "horizontal" tracks.

EVOLVO · Jan 4, 2018

old__man said:
Please don't take my word. I am not a subject matter expert on the things.

But I read it on the innernut, it must be true!

The way mine is set up is the door won't really stay up on it's own. I don't know if that's the wright way or the wrong way but that's the way I set mine up.

I'll have lots of options when I get my side mount opener working. Adjust springs, slope tracks, etc!

EVOLVO · Feb 7, 2018

Success!! Took a bit of fusing but it's working perfectly now. Some of you may recognize the strut attached to the wall below the unit. I used it to counteract the torque of the motor. Notice that removing the bolt at the motor end of that strut allows the motor to pivot up so I can remove the chain in case of electrical or other problems. Here's a few pics:

Jazzman442 · Feb 7, 2018

Great Idea... Genius..

Where did you get the sprocket on the shaft?

EVOLVO · Feb 7, 2018

Jazzman442 said:
Great Idea... Genius..

Where did you get the sprocket on the shaft?

Hardly genius and I'm not the first to do it. Just my way of doing it. The sprocket is from a bike, about 5" dia. Bikes and garage openers use the same size (#35) chain, at least mine did. I bolted the sprocket to an adapter I got from a go kart sight.

MScott · Sep 7, 2018

It has now been a couple of months since you finished. Any followup on how this opener is working?

EVOLVO · Sep 8, 2018

Funny you should ask. It blew up!! I hit the opener and the cable on the side with the opener jumped off the spool while the other side continued up till the motor stalled. This left the door at an odd angle and I couldn't get it to come down. Then I had the bright (read stupid) idea to release the tight cable spool from the spring rod. This might have worked if I had remembered to put a vise grip under one of the rollers on that side to keep the door from crashing down, but I think my adrenaline got the best of me and I neglected this important step. So while I stood on my step stool and loosened the last set screw down it crashed grazing my forehead leaving an L shaped gash (super glued at the ER)! Could have been much worse if my position had been a little closer to the door, guess I'm lucky to still be here!!

After that I gave up and called a door man to come take a look. I can't understand why he kept shaking his head the whole time he was here :lol_hitti

So after he repaired the damage and reset the springs (manual operation only now) he told me that he has never installed an 8500 type opener on a low overhead track system, they just don't work on them. I bought this door used and it is a low overhead style track, so I guess it was asking too much of my home made 8500 to do the job.
So I'm in the market for a standard set of tracks and will re-engineer the whole system when I get them installed. I'm stubborn (and lucky) so I haven't given up yet!!

kbs2244 · Sep 8, 2018

Un-common door opener installs are a youtube treasure.
While you are healing spend some time there.

MScott · Sep 9, 2018

Thanks for the update. Too bad it didn't work out.

MrSurly · Sep 10, 2018

I dunno... I think what you had could still work. I mean it DID work. Something got loose, so it needed adjustment but I don't think it necessarily *can't* work. Clearly, a less hasty approach is called for but it seems like your basic design is not inherently unworkable.

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EVOLVO · Sep 10, 2018

MrSurly said:
I dunno... I think what you had could still work. I mean it DID work. Something got loose, so it needed adjustment but I don't think it necessarily *can't* work. Clearly, a less hasty approach is called for but it seems like your basic design is not inherently unworkable.

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I agree 100%. Like I said in my last post I haven't given up on it. It just needs a little rework.

kbs2244 · Sep 10, 2018

The Devil is in the details.

converting traditional garage opener to 8500 style

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