Unknown tools... no idea how they could be used.

alton1911 · Dec 30, 2017

Most tools are not too hard to imagine them being useful. But alas, I find two today that just defy logic. No markings on either of these. The two pics of the socket are of opposite ends. The socket is square drive 1/2 in. Both sides. The other is hex drive 3/8 in. with friction ball at both ends. Just puzzled. I figured someone here knows about these.
Thanks in advance
alton1911

Private Lugnutz · Dec 30, 2017

The 3/8-inch hex piece is a drive plug for a non-reversible ratchet with a female opening. It gets pushed through one way or another to create a male drive plug to turn sockets with 3/8-inch hex drive female openings right or left.

The other piece is either a 1/2-inch square drive socket with a 1/2-inch square service opening (for turning 1/2-inch square-head fasteners, e.g., drain plugs, set screws, some bolts, etc), or a connector/adaptor. Hard to tell without seeing the innards. Is one end broached like a service opening and the other end the base (for a male drive stud)? EDIT: Looks like the former. Looks like in pic 1 the socket is upright, sitting on its base (with a 1/2-inch square drive opening), with the 1/2-inch square service opening up. In pic 2, the socket is upside down, sitting on the service opening with the drive end up.

alton1911 · Dec 30, 2017

It looks identical from both ends. There is a void in the middle. I have a Ray Socket that is square service end and drive end but it’s easy to tell.

Private Lugnutz · Dec 30, 2017

It might be a connector/adaptor then (for joining handles or extensions etc with two male ends). But you see the line that is scored around the socket close to one end? That, with the other line scored around the socket a little higher, looks like the base end of a 1/2-inch drive socket to me.

alton1911 · Dec 30, 2017

The Ray brand socket I have has two knurled bands with the Ray and size printed between.
So it seems obvious what it is. The unmarked one works virtually the same but I assumed it was a special application. Thanks again.

laser3kw · Dec 30, 2017

Maybe for turning square head set screws. I just use an 1/4" extension in that manner. I put the female end over the square head and then used a wrench on the male end to turn the set screw.

four.cycle · Dec 31, 2017

Private Lugnutz said:
The 3/8-inch hex piece is a drive plug for a non-reversible ratchet with a female opening. It gets pushed through one way or another to create a male drive plug to turn sockets with 3/8-inch hex drive female openings right or left.

^ This. He left out the part about "rare as hens' teeth."

Private Lugnutz said:
The other piece is either a 1/2-inch square drive socket with a 1/2-inch square service opening (for turning 1/2-inch square-head fasteners, e.g., drain plugs, set screws, some bolts, etc), or a connector/adaptor. Hard to tell without seeing the innards. Is one end broached like a service opening and the other end the base (for a male drive stud)? EDIT: Looks like the former. Looks like in pic 1 the socket is upright, sitting on its base (with a 1/2-inch square drive opening), with the 1/2-inch square service opening up. In pic 2, the socket is upside down, sitting on the service opening with the drive end up.

^ One or the other. Try plugging the male end of a 1/2" extension into each end and see if the detent ball on the extension grabs hold of that unit. If it is a "connector", it should be machined on the inside to hold the detent ball.

Example of "connector" shown in this box of magnificence that was listed earlier today on Ebay. Stevens Walden continued to pack those "connectors" (along with male-to-male extensions) in their sets pretty late in the game. Most other tool makers seem to have done away with them much earlier.

Stevens Walden 21-pc 3.8 & 1.2 drive SAE socket set (Ebay 232614060557 01).jpg

(* Inexplicably, there's also a 3/8" x 3/8" connector in that box - second from left on the top row of sockets, just to the right of the adapter. Why that is in that set is a mystery, because there's nothing in the set it connects to. *) :wtf:

Oldtuleguy · Dec 31, 2017

3/8 hex drive is rare.

four.cycle · Dec 31, 2017

and alton1911 - if you're looking to part with either of those widgets, let me know. I'm sure I have incomplete sets here in want of both.

four.cycle · Dec 31, 2017

Here's another SW set that contains both the 1/2" x 1/2" female-to-female "connector" and the 3/8" x 3/8" female-to-female "connector and both a 1/2" x 1/2" male-to-male extension and a 3/8" x 3/8" male-to-male extension.
note the label inside the lid says you can "use it also as a socket for square nuts or drain plugs".

Stevens Walden PM32 32 pc SAE socket set (Ebay 172954357272 01).jpg

Stevens Walden PM32 32 pc SAE socket set (Ebay 172954357272 02).jpg

Stevens Walden PM32 32 pc SAE socket set (Ebay 172954357272 03).jpg

(My guess is the set above in post #7 is missing a few pieces.)
(This PM32 set is overpriced by about $25 or $30 bucks considering the 1151 ratchet is missing.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/STEVENS-WA...et-Set-Missing-Pieces-Made-U-S-A/172954357272 )

four.cycle · Dec 31, 2017

OldTuleGuy said:
"3/8 hex drive is rare."

You comment made me curious, so I did some digging.

Here are all of the 3/8" hex drive sets I could find listed in the Indestro catalogs:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6928045#post6928045

The model #2104 Indestro set still shows up with regularity on Ebay.

I found none picking through the old New Britain/None Better catalog advertisements. It appears New Britain offered hex drive sets in 1/4" and 1/2", but not 3/8"

Thanks to Private Lugnutz, we know that some Bethlehem 'Quickway' socket sets were made in 3/8" hex drive - specifically the "Set A":
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=374757

Perhaps a subject for another thread?

alton1911 · Dec 31, 2017

I'm getting quite a collection of 1/2 hex drive sockets. I have found about 20. most of them are 12 point sockets. Most of them are very well made and have a nice band of knurling that is quite nice. I found some that are very poorly broached. They look unfinished or galvanized, but they are marked Japan. I was disappointed at first but I found a matching ratchet handle that has a pass through type one way broached opening. It looks like the kind of **** you might expect.

Oldtuleguy · Dec 31, 2017

I like the old hex stuff. As 4cycle notes, 3/8 can be found in indestro and bethlehem. I don't come across it much here in az, but there is some on ebay.

four.cycle · Jan 1, 2018

alton1911 -

re: hex drive sockets -
In addition to all the brands already mentioned: Duro / Indestro; New Britain / None Better; Bethlehem "Quickway"; Oxwall; G.M Mfg. Co.; Sedgley; and Shelton, they were also made by Stevens Walden / Walden Worcester in their low-end "Tomahawk" brand, and (probably the most common of all) Sears' "Dunlap" and "Companion" brands (as well as the Japan and Taiwan-made "Sears" brand.)
There were also a multitude of hex drive "knock-off" sets manufactured in Japan between the end of WWII and the 1960's (many of them copying the designs of Duro/Indestro and New Britain/None Better.)

Here's an example of a Sears 1/4" hex drive socket set, and a Japan-made 3/8" hex drive knock-off set:

Sears 46252 1.4 hex drive SAE socket set (Ebay 263369826400 01).jpg

Japan-made 11-pc 3.8 hex drive SAE socket set (Ebay 273005317318 01).jpg

Japan-made 11-pc 3.8 hex drive SAE socket set (Ebay 273005317318 02).jpg

(* did I leave any out? I'm sure I did. *) :headscrat

:

winchman · Jan 1, 2018

Oldtuleguy said:
3/8 hex drive is rare.

Britool in England made one in the 50s.
The hex with the two detent balls is from a very early ratchet.
I have seen the femail square before but can't remember where?

Oldtuleguy · Jan 1, 2018

Those allen wrench socket sets seemed to be kind of a compact inexpensive little emergency tool set you might have in your glove box

alton1911 · Jan 1, 2018

Oldtuleguy said:
Those allen wrench socket sets seemed to be kind of a compact inexpensive little emergency tool set you might have in your glove box

Not sure why, but I am very interested in them right now. The quality of manufacturing, seems at odds with the lack of manufacturers name brand.
I have a start on at least 4 different sets with nothing more than knurled ring and a size notation.

Oldtuleguy · Jan 1, 2018

I have this box of them I picked up cheap

alton1911 · Jan 1, 2018

Oldtuleguy said:
I have this box of them I picked up cheap

Very cool find. I am getting them one or two at a time and I am surprised at the variety.

four.cycle · Jan 1, 2018

^ Oldtuleguy that looks like Duro Chrome / Indestro there.

alton1911 said:
"...the lack of manufacturers name brand..."

Those were made by both Duro / Indestro and New Britain / None Better for private-label accounts such as Western Auto, Montgomery Ward, Sears, etc.
Only indicators of maker are patent numbers, patent dates, knurling patterns on the sockets, designs of holders, the way the sizes are stamped on the sockets (i.e., " 3-4 " or " 3/4 "), and other markings (i.e., stars or trapezoids on either side of the size stamping = Indestro.)

Oldtuleguy · Jan 1, 2018

The ratchet says indestro, probably 3 or 4 variations of sockets. Box is a mystery, but is similar to my 24 husky box, just no wire handle.

four.cycle · Jan 1, 2018

^ I'm pretty sure it's an Indestro or Duro set, but I'll be damned if I can find it in a catalog. I'll go check another one here.

alton1911 -

Here's another example of a 1/2" hex drive set made by Indestro. Note the stars stamped on each side of the size marking. Note how the size is expressed on the sockets: " 9-16 " (as opposed to " 9/16 ".)
Note that if it were not for the "Indestro" script-type logo stamped on the 1/2" hex "ELL" wrench, you would have a hard time distinguishing it from the New Britain/None Better Set No. 3 shown at Alloy-Artifacts HERE: http://alloy-artifacts.org/newbritain-nonebetter.html (scroll down a bit)
The stars are the clincher: only Duro Chrome and Indestro did that to my knowledge. Note that it appears that not all of the sockets are stamped with the stars.

Indestro 1207 'Handy' 7-pc 1.2 hex drive SAE socket set 01.jpg

Indestro 1207 'Handy' 7-pc 1.2 hex drive SAE socket set 02.jpg

Indestro 1207 'Handy' 7-pc 1.2 hex drive SAE socket set 03.jpg

Indestro 1207 'Handy' 7-pc 1.2 hex drive SAE socket set 04.jpg

Indestro 1207 'Handy' 7-pc 1.2 hex drive SAE socket set - 1935 Indestro catalog pp 22.jpg

Oldtuleguy · Jan 1, 2018

I will grab them when I come across a set. Usually very inexpensive

four.cycle · Jan 1, 2018

and here's an early* 3/8" hex drive Indestro set, which I'm reasonably sure is a model 2104.
note no stars.
note completely different knurling pattern than the example just above.

Indestro 3.8 hex drive socket set 01 possibly 2104.jpg

Indestro 3.8 hex drive socket set 02 possibly 2104.jpg

(* the "pat pend" stamped on the "ELL" wrench most likely refers to patent 2065340 issued Dec. 22, 1936 and applied for Oct. 05, 1935 *)

Oldtuleguy · Jan 1, 2018

Seems like I have seen a similar sk version

four.cycle · Jan 2, 2018

If anybody out there is listening -

Any of you have any clue as to who made this one?

unk 7-pc 1.2 hex drive SAE socket set (Ebay 401469433306 01).jpg

unk 7-pc 1.2 hex drive SAE socket set (Ebay 401469433306 02).jpg

unk 7-pc 1.2 hex drive SAE socket set (Ebay 401469433306 03).jpg

unk 7-pc 1.2 hex drive SAE socket set (Ebay 401469433306 04).jpg

The design of the holder is really kind of an interesting twist. The seller says he can't find a mark on it anywhere other than the size stampings.

What say you?

four.cycle · Jan 2, 2018

I completely missed the page showing the 3/8" hex drive sockets and accessories in the 1935 catalog the other night.

* chopped into three pieces so you can see it:

Indestro 2102 'PeeWee' 14-pc 3.8 hex drive SAE socket set - 1935 Indestro catalog pp 25.jpg

Indestro 2100 2101 674 2170 'PeeWee' 3.8 hex drive SAE socket set ratchet spinner - 1935 Indestr.jpg

Indestro 2171 2172 2107-2118 'PeeWee' 3.8 hex drive SAE socket t-handle extension - 1935 Indestr.jpg

Note that nothing shown there (other than the sockets) is anything like what they offered in their later catalogs.
Note that they also offered single sockets!
On the opposite side of that same page are listings for 1/4" hex drive sockets and accessories. They also offered single 1/4" hex drive sockets!

The 1935 Indestro catalog is available for download in *.pdf format at ToolArchives.com

Mick56 · Jan 2, 2018

There are distributor wrench sets that have a 3/8 square connector that can be used to connect the two wrenches in 4 different ways.

Unknown tools... no idea how they could be used.

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