Garage floor is hopeless

loumoon · Feb 20, 2018

I just bought a house and the garage is a hot mess. The structure is solid but the floor is cracked in multiple places. I was hoping that I could replace the floor without having to build a whole new garage but my first inquiry to a contractor wasn't inspiring. He told me that if I have a frame garage replacing the floor isn't possible. Aren't all garages frame garages? Is it true that
I have to tear the whole thing down and start over?

FANTM58 · Feb 20, 2018

Typically the walls are built on the stem, foundation not the flat work.
I cannot tell from the pics, maybe a closer picture of where the wall meets the floor.
If it’s built on the stem/foundation they can remove and replace the flat work no
Problem.

James-W · Feb 20, 2018

Hard to tell for sure, but it looks to me like a pad was poured and then the walls were bolted down to the pad so you have no stem wall that is set down below the frost line.

You MAY need to unbolt the walls and then raise the garage up a couple feet. Once that is done you can have a concrete crew come in and tear out the old concrete. Then they can dig down below the frost line and put in a stem wall and pour a new floor.

Is the garage in really good condition? If it is in good shape then it would pay to save it. But if the garage is too small and/or in poor condition, then it may very well be more beneficial to take it down and build a new one.

mygarageone · Feb 20, 2018

Nothing is impossible , there are a couple of good ideas here. Think outside of the box.

They jack up houses all the time to put in bsmt's , new foundation walls etc
It can be done with out tearing down the garage.

The Cobbler · Feb 20, 2018

lookslike you have a monolithic pad, the footers are basically poured with the floor in 1 pour. and usually not below the frost level. it's basically a floating pad with thickened edges.
as mentioned, you could lift the garage & re do the pad. if the garage is in OK shape that would be a way to go. if the garage is questionable,weigh the pros & cons of tearing it down and starting over.

shellback · Feb 20, 2018

What would cause that type of damage?

The Cobbler · Feb 20, 2018

shellback said:
What would cause that type of damage?

poor base, poor concrete, poor re bar, frost.
any or all of these

loumoon · Feb 20, 2018

Here's a picture of where the floor meets the wall. I'm not sure what I'm looking at here, but I don't see what I think footings would look like.

I should also mention that this is likely the original garage structure from 1922.

The Cobbler · Feb 20, 2018

the floor looks higher than the wall plate?

Kevin C · Feb 20, 2018

shellback said:
What would cause that type of damage?

My guess it that the pad is about 100 years old and was placed directly on dirt with no gravel, rebar or moisture barrier.

When you pull the old pad up you will see what looks like a fine layer of crushed gravel. Its actually concrete thats deteriorated.

loumoon · Feb 21, 2018

The Cobbler said:
poor base, poor concrete, poor re bar, frost.
any or all of these

There's no rebar in the concrete. The home inspector said it's ancient, likely original. Fairly certain that the base isn't up to today's standard either.

loumoon · Feb 21, 2018

Kevin C said:
My guess it that the pad is about 100 years old and was placed directly on dirt with no gravel, rebar or moisture barrier.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Kevin wins the kewpie doll.

Armorpoxy · Feb 21, 2018

You could possible pour a self-leveler over it to even it out and then cover over that with our www.supratile.com.

Fast and easy and whatever happens underneath won't matter much going forward as the SupraTiles are overlaying it.

Shea · Feb 21, 2018

Below is an example of a stem wall in a garage. The framing is on the stem wall while the slab/pad is a separate pour. There are expansion joints that separate the slab from the stem wall.

rubberrodder · Feb 21, 2018

If the wood portions are still solid, I think lifting it, and pouring a stemwall/foundation with a seperatly poured slab would be a good investment. That's a LOT of frost heave damage. No offence intended, but, even with Armorpoxys tile system, I believe THAT floor will continue to give you trouble, no matter what you cover it with. Just like bad surface prep on a paint job...bad surface here will come back and bite you.

Hilltopmasonry · Feb 21, 2018

It looks like your garage is like mine and they literally poured the slab of concrete and build a garage on top of it. My garage floor is exact same way as yours it’s heaved up and shot but when I bought my house my plan was to tear the garage down anyhow so I don’t care

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BucksCtyMike · Feb 21, 2018

If that garage is built on a slab, I cant see it being level/square with the condition of the floor you posted.

And depending on size, its probably going to be cheaper to raze it and start over versus lifting and updating a 100 year old structure.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

loumoon · Feb 22, 2018

BucksCtyMike said:
If that garage is built on a slab, I cant see it being level/square with the condition of the floor you posted.

Surprisingly, it is. Maybe because the damage is in the center and not so much at the edges. I've received four quotes to pour a new floor. Apparently it's not as uncommon as the first contractor wanted me to believe. I think he just wanted to sell me a new garage, which would be easier for him but far more expensive for me.

BucksCtyMike · Feb 22, 2018

loumoon said:
Surprisingly, it is. Maybe because the damage is in the center and not so much at the edges. I've received four quotes to pour a new floor. Apparently it's not as uncommon as the first contractor wanted me to believe. I think he just wanted to sell me a new garage, which would be easier for him but far more expensive for me.

That’s good news. If structure is fine, I don’t why you can’t cut, remove and put new slab.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

lakeroadster · Feb 22, 2018

I would drill some holes through the existing slab, adjacent to the wall sill plate, maybe out about 4 inches.

You can establish how thick the slab is in that area using this method. You'll likely find it is much thicker.

If that is the case you could saw cut through the slab leaving the good slab material under the wall. remove all the deteriorated slab material. install new sub-base material, compact and test for proper compaction, drill into the old slab and dowel the old slab into the new using rebar.

All this.. only if the concrete under the wall is of adequate thickness and level as you previously mentioned.

Also... take a pointed awl and see if you can push it into the sill plate and the wall studs down near the floor. If they are rotted you need to re-evaluate throwing good money after bad.

The walls look like they have had snow on the outside and somebody has heated the building. This wicks the melting snow through the wood and rots out the wall, studs and sill plate.

And since you live in Chicago... the zoning folks will likely not let you do anything I just suggested.

Good luck on your project and let us know how it all works out.

I've also attached a diagram of how one thickness of concrete can be doweled and keyed into another.

siegsuwa · Feb 23, 2018

Not sure how great or well maintained the structure is on top of that slab, but if it were me I would seriously consider tearing it down and rebuilding it.

I had the opposite problem where I had a garbage quality stick-built structure on top of a new slab. To get around the new building code requirements, I had my garage rebuilt in place on top of the existing slab. Carpenters reset/plumbed up the walls and roof trusses, then re-sheathed the entire building. Finally new roof and siding. I trenched and ran the new electric service myself with my father in law.

If the structure is as old as you say, with what looks like multiple types of sheathing (I see both plank and plywood, with what looks like moisture stains), I'm with the previous posts that it may be throwing good money after bad.

I'd question the long-term cost savings if the concrete guys had to lift the building or saw-cut the entire perimeter, vs a new, modern-built garage.

I'd lookup your local building codes too, to see what size garage they allow, etc. I kept my structure "repaired in place" because if I was to build new, I would have had to downsize the garage due to the latest building codes. Mine was oversized by about 150sqft, but grandfathered in as a non-conforming structure.

Hot Rod Grampa · Mar 1, 2018

While it may sound easier to just replace with new, you must consider the cost of demolition. You will probably need a permit to demo and that will trigger testing for lead in paint and asbestos siding, roofing or insulation. If any of these tests are positive you could be looking at serious costs, in addition to normal dumpster costs. Plus check your zoning. Your new structure may have to be built to current set back, height, or square foot codes where you old structure is grandfathered in. You may be able to use the garage raising opportunity to add height to the garage by adding a stem wall and might be able to put in a lift. Carefully consider both sides.

Mikej1 · Mar 1, 2018

I had a quote in the 12-14k range to lift a garage and replace the floor. 20x26 Midwest. New garage was 22-24k 20x30

engineer2 · Mar 2, 2018

I've seen some great garages on those narrow City of Chicago lots. They let you build pretty close to the property line and often you can build deeper too. Some even build flat roofs for party decks. That garage from the 1920's is probably on the small side anyway.

And since you live in Chicago...

Any permit issues can often be resolved with cash donations to your alderman's re-election campaign. I'm sure there are demolition guys that can make the old garage go away without lead and asbestos worries.

jbwilkins · Mar 2, 2018

Just a wild guess here, but could it have been a parking pad (flatwork) that someone framed a garage over? In that case the edge wouldn’t have been thickened for a footing....like others have said you need to determine the thickness.....I’d also do a little digging somewhere on the perimeter to see how deep it goes.....I’m betting the whole thing is just sitting on native soil without a thickened footing....

SgtHawkUSMC · Mar 2, 2018

lakeroadster said:
I would drill some holes through the existing slab, adjacent to the wall sill plate, maybe out about 4 inches.

You can establish how thick the slab is in that area using this method. You'll likely find it is much thicker.

If that is the case you could saw cut through the slab leaving the good slab material under the wall. remove all the deteriorated slab material. install new sub-base material, compact and test for proper compaction, drill into the old slab and dowel the old slab into the new using rebar.

All this.. only if the concrete under the wall is of adequate thickness and level as you previously mentioned.

Also... take a pointed awl and see if you can push it into the sill plate and the wall studs down near the floor. If they are rotted you need to re-evaluate throwing good money after bad.

The walls look like they have had snow on the outside and somebody has heated the building. This wicks the melting snow through the wood and rots out the wall, studs and sill plate.

I've also attached a diagram of how one thickness of concrete can be doweled and keyed into another.

This guy has the right idea. That's what I'd do. Do not bother with floor leveler ****. Complete waste of money. Especially in your case.

loumoon · Jan 10, 2019

I thought I'd post an update on this old thread. After a family of rats decided that my foundation would make a great nest (they burrowed from INSIDE the garage) I broke down and hired a contractor to build a new one from the ground up. It was a month of nail biting and hoping the weather would cooperate but now I have a 400sf garage that's both weather- and rat-resistant. Now I just need to decorate it. I'll start another thread for that discussion.

Rorin67 · Jan 11, 2019

Good choice! I'm in the market for demo'ing my current 18x20 to build a brand new 20x20. Any chance you can share the cost of it all - or at least a range? I'm getting quotes around $150k, but this is SoCal...

James-W · Jan 11, 2019

loumoon said:
I thought I'd post an update on this old thread. After a family of rats decided that my foundation would make a great nest (they burrowed from INSIDE the garage) I broke down and hired a contractor to build a new one from the ground up. It was a month of nail biting and hoping the weather would cooperate but now I have a 400sf garage that's both weather- and rat-resistant. Now I just need to decorate it. I'll start another thread for that discussion.

I think you made the right choice. I realize to tear down the old and build new is not the least expensive way to do it. But if you do it this way you get what you want and it is done right so you should have many years of trouble free service from the garage.

Kevin54 · Jan 12, 2019

loumoon said:
I just bought a house and the garage is a hot mess. The structure is solid but the floor is cracked in multiple places. I was hoping that I could replace the floor without having to build a whole new garage but my first inquiry to a contractor wasn't inspiring. He told me that if I have a frame garage replacing the floor isn't possible. Aren't all garages frame garages? Is it true that
I have to tear the whole thing down and start over?

You don't have to tear the garage down to fix it. There are a few ways you can go about it. If you have the room, build your new foundation behind the existing garage, slide the garage back, then rip out the old foundation.

Another way would be to use telepost to support the garage, and replace one foundation wall at a time. But you would have to cut the concrete around the inside perimeter.

It wouldn't be a real tough job if it is tackled systematically.

lakeroadster · Jan 12, 2019

Rorin67 said:
Good choice! I'm in the market for demo'ing my current 18x20 to build a brand new 20x20. Any chance you can share the cost of it all - or at least a range? I'm getting quotes around $150k, but this is SoCal...

Holy Schnikeys! :shocking:

I'm betting you could do it yourself and save $100k.

cderalow · Jan 16, 2019

lakeroadster said:
Holy Schnikeys! I'm betting you could do it yourself and save $100k.

earthquake code in CA is no joke man.

Like building to hurricane codes in FL.

Unlike parts of the midwest, they believe on making structures to survive their potential natural disasters.

James-W · Jan 19, 2019

Rorin67 said:
Good choice! I'm in the market for demo'ing my current 18x20 to build a brand new 20x20. Any chance you can share the cost of it all - or at least a range? I'm getting quotes around $150k, but this is SoCal...

I realize this is Wisconsin and not California so the cost of things will be quite a bit different here. I built my garage with the help of some friends. Now obviously we didn't do ALL the work ourselves. I hired the concrete work done and I hired the shingles done and the siding done and I had gutters put on at the same time as the siding. But the rest of the garage my friends and I built ourselves.

The garage is 24X36 with an 8ft ceiling, but there are two floors. I have an upstairs so I can store things up there. I ordered trusses that are capable of supporting quite a bit of weight. The cost of the structure was right at $30K.

TTMotorsports · Jan 19, 2019

A 50x80 steel building with everything done for me would be 130k

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

Garage floor is hopeless

Member

Attachments

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Super Moderator

Well-known member

Super Moderator

Member

Attachments

Super Moderator

Well-known member

Member

Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Attachments

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Attachments

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Member

ALLIANCE MEMBER

Well-known member

MEMBER EMERITUS

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member