Vintage Adjustable Wrench-Off: Diamond vs Danielson

DadsTools · Mar 3, 2018

I've acquired quite a few vintage adjustable wrenches over time and am now looking to make up a master set for one area of the shop. I've got a number of USA brands to choose from, including those from JP Danielson and Diamond Horseshoe. I'd like to know everyone's thoughts on which was the better-made wrench? I know this encompasses many years of production with design changes, and many contract wrenches made for other brands. If you like a particular time period in a brand's production over another, or comparing both brands during a particular time period, that's all OK as long as you mention these specifics in your comments.

Danielson vs Diamond....ready....set....WRENCH-OFF!

Private Lugnutz · Mar 3, 2018

Whether it was inadvertent or planned, you've chosen the only two mfgrs who have a major feature in common: a hanging hole broached with a 12-point box end wrench - the size of which scales with the length of the wrench.

I'm already on the record in many GJ threads, including the "Who made the best vintage adjustable wrenches?" thread linked here, that I consider J.P. Danielson BET'R GRIP's to be superior because of the true square throat that gives them their name. They fit hex or square nuts and bolts. Square head nuts and bolts can be problematic for Crescent, Diamalloy, and other adjustable crescent type wrenches with a hex throat. As far as I know, the only other mfgrs who made their adjustable crescent type wrenches with a square throat was Utica. But Utica did not broach their hanging holes. Nod to Danielson.

DadsTools · Mar 3, 2018

Private Lugnutz said:
Whether it was inadvertent or planned, you've chosen the only two mfgrs who have a major feature in common: a hanging hole broached with a 12-point box end wrench - the size of which scales with the length of the wrench.

I'm already on the record in many GJ threads, including the "Who made the best vintage adjustable wrenches?" thread linked here, that I consider J.P. Danielson BET'R GRIP's to be superior because of the true square throat that gives them their name. They fit hex or square nuts and bolts. Square head nuts and bolts can be problematic for Crescent, Diamalloy, and other adjustable crescent type wrenches with a hex throat. As far as I know, the only other mfgrs who made their adjustable crescent type wrenches with a square throat was Utica. But Utica did not broach their hanging holes. Nod to Danielson.

Thanks, Lugz. I chose those two wrenches for the very reason that they are so similar in some ways. But I wasn't only concerned about the features, although the square vs hex throats are an important distinction. I was also wondering if anyone had any feelings about the fundamental quality of these two, the strength, manufacturing tolerance of the jaws, etc. I'd be interested to know.

d42jeep · Mar 3, 2018

I have several of both brands and really feel like both are about equal in quality, although some of the Diamond wrenches I have from the '30s are in remarkably good condition and function like new. When it come to actually using the wrenches I rarely do so since I learned a long time ago that an adjustable wrench is generally a poor substitute for a fixed size wrench of the correct size.
-Don

RubiconJK · Mar 3, 2018

I like and have both also, but have a nostalgic tie to Diamond Calk.

davethorik · Mar 3, 2018

I have both, but I find various Danielson & relabels perhaps 4 or 5 times more often than Diamond. My tightest adjustable is a JP Danielson Bet'R Grip 16", and curiously my sloppiest is a Proto Professional Clik-Stop 4" in the Danielson pattern that looks like it was only lightly used.

I have a Diamalloy 24" that is used but good shape. It has some ID # engravings and chrome chipping off jaw tips, probably from being tossed on a concrete floor and leaned against a wall if I had to guess. I would also assume that aside from those things, this wrench had a fairly easy life with infrequent use based on overall condition.

I remember when I posted it here the 1st time, another member commented they usually see Diamond 24" with braze repairs, and based on the limited number I've seen of them, I would tend to agree.

Did Danielson ever make a 24" with their own name on it?

Back to that JPD 16" of mine, it has a more modern tapered handle, and the hang hole isn't broached. Was it something like only the 12" on down got the broach?

davethorik · Mar 3, 2018

While we're talking adjustables...here is a thread I made in 2016.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=345943

I looked at my collection, I have 9 JPD, 4 Diamond, 3 Crescent, 3 WF, and 2 of the weirdo Utica/Triangle wrenches in the above link. Then the rest is onesies.

four.cycle · Mar 4, 2018

This thread begs the question:

Has anybody compiled a list of the other tool "manufacturers" who were outsourcing their adjustable wrenches from Danielson or Diamond?

If anybody's willing to go down that rabbit hole, the next question would be:
Who was outsourcing their slip-joint pliers from Diamond?

Ole Slewfoot · Mar 4, 2018

My click stop Proto is the only adjustable I have that stands out as different from tjhe others of either brand. Sometimes its better, sometimes just annoying.

I also agree with Don, the main thing they are good for is not leaving teeth marks in plumbing fittings, general wrenching not so much.

Private Lugnutz · Mar 4, 2018

DadsTools said:
I was also wondering if anyone had any feelings about the fundamental quality of these two, the strength, manufacturing tolerance of the jaws, etc. I'd be interested to know.

I'm no help there. I think the way all vintage tools last is mainly a function of their composition. I collect tools from a fairly narrow window, when all the mfgrs were using the same alloy steel, and I rarely notice any distinctions in durability between the highest quality mfgrs.

Ole Slewfoot said:
I also agree with Don, the main thing they are good for is not leaving teeth marks in plumbing fittings, general wrenching not so much.

Of course. But in certain applications (field-oriented and space-limited, mainly), they can be indispensable. Which is what makes them ideal for road kits.

Quick historical anecdote on that point. In November 1943, the 8" adjustable crescent wrench was removed from the on-board Willys MB and Ford GPW Jeep toolkits. For WWII jeep owners, this data point is reduced to just something to know in comparison to the Date of Delivery of your jeep. If you have an early war (41/42/43) Jeep, and you want your kit to be accurate, you need one. If you have a late war Jeep (44/45), you don't need one in your kit. But the reason it was removed - and all the 8" adjustable crescent type wrenches that had been issued gathered up and turned in - is rarely discussed. There was a critical shortage for maintenance elsewhere across the Army, at every echelon, and in larger vehicles, including Armored forces.

Private Lugnutz · Mar 4, 2018

davethorik said:
Back to that JPD 16" of mine, it has a more modern tapered handle, and the hang hole isn't broached. Was it something like only the 12" on down got the broach?

I think so, Dave. Whatever length they started tapering the handle. Also, crossing this and the 3rd party topic, not all of the contract wrenches were broached - at any length. I have Plomb, Proto, P&C, and PENENS 8" adjustables that are not broached.

RubiconJK · Mar 4, 2018

four.cycle said:
This thread begs the question:

Has anybody compiled a list of the other tool "manufacturers" who were outsourcing their adjustable wrenches from Danielson or Diamond?

If anybody's willing to go down that rabbit hole, the next question would be:
Who was outsourcing their slip-joint pliers from Diamond?

After a brief look at AA the following for at least a start to your question.

JPD made adjustables for Western Auto, Sears Craftsman, & Plomb (including Penens, P&C and Vlchek).

Diamond made adjustables for KHT & Wards.
EDIT: Just accidentally found a reference on AA where Diamond was making the larger sizes for Williams in the 1940's.

On the Diamond slip joint question, they showed a pair of Snap-On Bluepoint tongue & groove pliers they made.

I'm betting they contracted to others as well, but perhaps this is a quick start.

Private Lugnutz · Mar 4, 2018

RubiconJK said:
Sears Craftsman

Not to be picayune, but Sears DUNLAP line as well. What I like about the pre-1941 models is the pronounced Courier font and the practice of including the forged-in size of the 12-point box end.

DadsTools · Mar 4, 2018

Private Lugnutz said:
Not to be picayune, but Sears DUNLAP line as well. What I like about the pre-1941 models is the pronounced Courier font and the practice of including the forged-in size of the 12-point box end.

That's a great pair of wrenches. Not hard to see they're sisters. Good condition, and the two tell the whole story.

Speaking of contract wrenches for store chains, there seems to be a ton of detailed info out there on Sears and Western Auto, but what I find for Wards is a little more fuzzy. Anyone have an idea who made this one and when? It's been a really good wrench with tight tolerances. The numbers at the end should be a clue, but I'm having trouble referencing them.

RubiconJK · Mar 4, 2018

I rarely use adjustable wrenches, so I don't know what there is about them that forces me to buy any US made 4" or 6" and sometimes 8" adjustable I find at the flea market or estate sales for less than $2. My favorites are the pre Triangle Diamond Calk (especially the old "tool steel" marked ones), JPD, Plomb and Plomb family, Williams, & Crescent. Its almost as bad as that character Mel Gibson played in the movie "Conspiracy Theory" where he had to buy the book "Catcher in the Rye" every time he found it.

RubiconJK · Mar 4, 2018

DadsTools said:
That's a great pair of wrenches. Not hard to see they're sisters. Good condition, and the two tell the whole story.

Speaking of contract wrenches for store chains, there seems to be a ton of detailed info out there on Sears and Western Auto, but what I find for Wards is a little more fuzzy. Anyone have an idea who made this one and when? It's been a really good wrench with tight tolerances. The numbers at the end should be a clue, but I'm having trouble referencing them.

AA shows that Diamond Calk made these for Wards.
Edit: In fact the pic on AA shows the exact same numbering as on yours from the 1940's.

DadsTools · Mar 4, 2018

RubiconJK said:
AA shows that Diamond Calk made these for Wards.
Edit: In fact the pic on AA shows the exact same numbering as on yours from the 1940's.

Thank you! It's a good wrench.

There's so many mfrs of these contract tools that it's almost impossible to keep track of them all. AA is an incredible site, but no way can I begin to memorize what's in it.

Trouble is, that most of the contract tools are organized under the mfr's category. That's all well and good AS LONG AS YOU ALREADY KNOW WHO MADE THEM. Western Auto has its own AA category. Montgomery Wards does not. I suppose the reason for this is that, since Western was engaged selling items primarily for mechanical work, it merits and entry into the list of covered manufacturers. Doesn't make the tools from other stores like Wards any less relevant, just makes it harder to find info on them. Good thing that among the member in here, someone will invariably recall where they've seen a particular name brand tool or has some info on them.

RubiconJK · Mar 4, 2018

DadsTools said:
Thank you! It's a good wrench.

There's so many mfrs of these contract tools that it's almost impossible to keep track of them all. AA is an incredible site, but no way can I begin to memorize what's in it.

Trouble is, that most of the contract tools are organized under the mfr's category. That's all well and good AS LONG AS YOU ALREADY KNOW WHO MADE THEM. Western Auto has its own AA category. Montgomery Wards does not. I suppose the reason for this is that, since Western was engaged selling items primarily for mechanical work, it merits and entry into the list of covered manufacturers. Doesn't make the tools from other stores like Wards any less relevant, just makes it harder to find info on them. Good thing that among the member in here, someone will invariably recall where they've seen a particular name brand tool or has some info on them.

I agree. Ward's Master Quality tools and boxes were(are) really good. A good example of what you are saying about researching these contract tools is something I was just doing with an 8" Williams adjustable. While surfing AA I discovered a notation that Diamond Calk was making the Williams larger adjustable sizes in the 40's.

davethorik · Mar 4, 2018

These 4" were made by Diamond, or so I thought, but I'm curious about the square gullet, as Lugz said this was only found on JPD and Utica.

Also, on the Blue Point side of the chrome wrench, the panel is open to the adjuster, but only that panel, and looks like there is a forged in bi-directional arrow there.

RubiconJK · Mar 4, 2018

DadsTools said:
Thanks, Lugz. I chose those two wrenches for the very reason that they are so similar in some ways. But I wasn't only concerned about the features, although the square vs hex throats are an important distinction. I was also wondering if anyone had any feelings about the fundamental quality of these two, the strength, manufacturing tolerance of the jaws, etc. I'd be interested to know.

I went through my adjustables today and pictured are all those I found with square throats. From left is a 10" MAC, 8" Penens, 6" Utica, 6" Fleet, 6" Proto, 6" JPD, and 6" Plomb. I guess we could lump the Penens, Fleet, Proto, JPD and Plomb all together under the greater JPD umbrella. Anyone know if MAC might have outsourced their mfg of adjustable wrenches? Utica later wound up under Triangle and so did Diamond Calk.

Private Lugnutz · Mar 4, 2018

davethorik said:
These 4" were made by Diamond, or so I thought, but I'm curious about the square gullet, as Lugz said this was only found on JPD and Utica.

Special order maybe. There are no absolutes. If you look at my pic above, the early JPD-made Craftsman VANADIUM has a hex throat! (Apparently Sears preferred a hex throat. Diamond was an earlier supplier.)

RubiconJK said:
I guess we could lump the Penens, Fleet, Proto, JPD and Plomb all together under the greater JPD umbrella.

For the purposes of this discussion, which goes to manufacturing, we have to. They were all made by JPD after 1947. One might conclude with plenty of justification that a square throat was a Plomb preference in a crescent adjustable. Prior to 1947, guess who supplied Plomb's adjustables? Utica!

RubiconJK said:
From left is a 10" MAC

Very interesting. What is the model number? I can't quite make it out. That almost looks like it could be a 50's era Utica, when they weren't doing panels anymore but still had a reinforced hanging hold.

EDIT: Note that the adjustable crescent type wrench shown on the cover of the MAC 1947 catalog has a hex throat, and on page 6, the figure used for the adjustable crescent type wrench listings is a Diamalloy (branding very visible) with a hex throat. Model numbers are AJ-4 through AJ-12.

RubiconJK · Mar 4, 2018

Private Lugnutz said:
Special order maybe. There are no absolutes. If you look at my pic above, the early JPD-made Craftsman VANADIUM has a hex throat! (Apparently Sears preferred a hex throat. Diamond was an earlier supplier.)

For the purposes of this discussion, which goes to manufacturing, we have to. They were all made by JPD after 1947. One might conclude with plenty of justification that a square throat was a Plomb preference in a crescent adjustable. Prior to 1947, guess who supplied Plomb's adjustables? Utica!

Very interesting. What is the model number? I can't quite make it out. That almost looks like it could be a 50's era Utica, when they weren't doing panels anymore but still had a reinforced hanging hold.

EDIT: Note that the adjustable crescent type wrench shown on the cover of the MAC 1947 catalog has a hex throat, and on page 6, the figure used for the adjustable crescent type wrench listings is a Diamalloy (branding very visible) with a hex throat. Model numbers are AJ-4 through AJ-12.

Lugz,
My MAC has number AJB-10 on it. The flip side says "Forged Alloy Steel USA". The only other MAC adjustable I have is a 4" and it is hex throated with number AJ-4C on it.

d42jeep · Mar 4, 2018

Here are a few more Diamond adjustable pictures I just took. The first picture is just miscellaneous adjustables. The lower two pictures are of a wartime 8" adjustable with the broached hanging hole and missing horseshoe. It has traces of copper plating as well.
-Don

RubiconJK · Mar 4, 2018

d42jeep said:
Here are a few more Diamond adjustable pictures I just took. The first picture is just miscellaneous adjustables. The lower two pictures are of a wartime 8" adjustable with the broached hanging hole and missing horseshoe. It has traces of copper plating as well.
-Don

Don,
After seeing that your Diamond HandiBoy wrench/pliers have the square throat, I did a quick search of Ebay and did indeed find a few examples of Diamond conventional adjustable wrenches also with the square throat. One such was in its original packaging and noted as "S-8H 8" Special wrench" and it had a green handle. Another square throat one I found (also with green handle) had a forged "S-6" on the handle. Both of these were branded Diamond Tool & Horseshoe Co which would be pre-Triangle. So the question would be did Diamond do these in house or was there already a close enough relationship with Utica (also bound for Triangle ownership) for them to do these?

DadsTools · Mar 5, 2018

RubiconJK said:
I went through my adjustables today and pictured are all those I found with square throats. From left is a 10" MAC, 8" Penens, 6" Utica, 6" Fleet, 6" Proto, 6" JPD, and 6" Plomb. I guess we could lump the Penens, Fleet, Proto, JPD and Plomb all together under the greater JPD umbrella. Anyone know if MAC might have outsourced their mfg of adjustable wrenches? Utica later wound up under Triangle and so did Diamond Calk.

Nice collection. Interestingly, I first just looked at the shape of these wrenches while paying no attention to the names on them. In the first photo, looking at them this way makes it appear as if there are only two makers. If I were to call the outside bend of the static jaw side to be 'cheeks', there seems to be fat cheeks and skinny cheeks. From left to right, wrenches 1,2,3 and 6 look like one make, and wrenches 4,5 and 7 look like the second make, so only two manufacturers for all these. This is just going on their visual geometry. Does this make any sense?????

RubiconJK · Mar 5, 2018

DadsTools said:
Nice collection. Interestingly, I first just looked at the shape of these wrenches while paying no attention to the names on them. In the first photo, looking at them this way makes it appear as if there are only two makers. If I were to call the outside bend of the static jaw side to be 'cheeks', there seems to be fat cheeks and skinny cheeks. From left to right, wrenches 1,2,3 and 6 look like one make, and wrenches 4,5 and 7 look like the second make, so only two manufacturers for all these. This is just going on their visual geometry. Does this make any sense?????

Thanks. Yes I see what you mean. I wonder if they look that way due to the perspective of the camera when I took the picture. Let me see if I can take some measurements of these from the outside of the "hip" to the end of the rail where the moving jaw sits and compare them for you. Edit: I'll just measure the 6" wrenches for a good comparison.
Edit 2: Ok, after walking out to the shop and trying to measure I quickly realized that even with my calipers I was not really getting a very precise measurement, so I decided to just stack the 6" wrenches and compare profiles. The JPD & Plomb (6&7) are matching and the heads of these two wrenches are about 1/8" more narrow from the hip to the end of the rail than the Utica, Fleet and Proto (3,4 & 5).

d42jeep · Mar 6, 2018

Here are some more JPD manufacturered adjustables followed by some Utica wrenches.
-Don

d42jeep · Mar 6, 2018

Here is a P&C adjustable from '49 (I think) after the broached hanging hole was discontinued.
-Don

Private Lugnutz · Mar 6, 2018

RubiconJK said:
My MAC has number AJB-10 on it. The flip side says "Forged Alloy Steel USA". The only other MAC adjustable I have is a 4" and it is hex throated with number AJ-4C on it.

With the extra letter and the suffix, I would suspect those to be later than the 1947 catalog. The marking is no help, really. That doesn't match anything Utica, JPD or Diamond was doing in the early vintage era. EDIT: I will point out that it looks like the more modern Utica wrench (#3 from the left) has a "Forged Alloy Steel USA" marking on the flip side, which would confirm my hunch about the MAC wrench looking like it was Utica made.

Private Lugnutz · Mar 6, 2018

DadsTools said:
From left to right, wrenches 1,2,3 and 6 look like one make, and wrenches 4,5 and 7 look like the second make...

FWIW, it looks like 3, 4, & 5 (Utica, Fleet, and PENENS) have wider static jaws than all the other wrenches, if that's what you're describing. Without being able to see the date codes on the JPD-made wrenches in that group (4 & 5), I would bet that they are later production than the other JPD-made wrenches (2, 6, & 7). Utica did not date code their wrenches, but that panel style is very late. At least 1950's. In fact, if that's a little triangle symbol I see on the flip side shank in front of the "Forged Alloy Steel USA" marking, it was made in the Triangle era, when Utica, Herbrand, and Bonney were bought, moved to South Carolina, and made managed brands of the Triangle Corporation. So the wider static jaw is an industry wide trend, not an OEM tell.

Private Lugnutz · Mar 6, 2018

RubiconJK said:
The JPD & Plomb (6&7) are matching and the heads of these two wrenches are about 1/8" more narrow from the hip to the end of the rail than the Utica, Fleet and Proto (3,4 & 5).

See my reply to DadsTools above.

RubiconJK · Mar 6, 2018

Private Lugnutz said:
FWIW, it looks like 3, 4, & 5 (Utica, Fleet, and PENENS) have wider static jaws than all the other wrenches, if that's what you're describing. Without being able to see the date codes on the JPD-made wrenches in that group (4 & 5), I would bet that they are later production than the other JPD-made wrenches (2, 6, & 7). Utica did not date code their wrenches, but that panel style is very late. At least 1950's. In fact, if that's a little triangle symbol I see on the flip side shank in front of the "Forged Alloy Steel USA" marking, it was made in the Triangle era, when Utica, Herbrand, and Bonney were bought, moved to South Carolina, and made managed brands of the Triangle Corporation. So the wider static jaw is an industry wide trend, not an OEM tell.

The Utica is post Triangle as Lugz said. The date code on the Plomb is K.7.7 (1947?) and on the JPD it is O.4.0 (1940?). The Fleet is F.5.5 (?), and the Proto is I.5.1 (?). I will admit to not being all that confident to my understanding of JPD date codes. As Lugz mentioned the Utica is not date stamped.

Private Lugnutz · Mar 6, 2018

Letter.Number.Number = Unknown.Month.Year.

You have to know the features of a tool bearing a JPD date code to know what decade.

The Plomb K.7.7 is 1947, because they bought JPD in late 1946 and it would've been Proto in 1957.

The JPD O.4.0 is 1940 because they were owned by Plomb in 1950.

Fleet F.5.5 is probably 1955.

Proto is I.5.1 is probably 1951, perhaps 1961 (I have little interest in and even less knowledge of Proto proper tools.)

RubiconJK · Mar 6, 2018

Private Lugnutz said:
Letter.Number.Number = Unknown.Month.Year.

You have to know the features of a tool bearing a JPD date code to know what decade.

The Plomb K.7.7 is 1947, because they bought JPD in late 1946 and it would've been Proto in 1957.

The JPD O.4.0 is 1940 because they were owned by Plomb in 1950.

Fleet F.5.5 is probably 1955.

Proto is I.5.1 is probably 1951, perhaps 1961 (I have little interest in and even less knowledge of Proto proper tools.)

Thanks!

Private Lugnutz · Apr 5, 2018

I was sorting my crescent type adjustable wrenches today for a different reason and this photo opp presented itself.

4" (1945), 6" (1944), 8" (1944) and 12" (1943) J.P. Danielson BET'R GRIP's.

RubiconJK · Apr 5, 2018

Private Lugnutz said:
I was sorting my crescent type adjustable wrenches today for a different reason and this photo opp presented itself.

4" (1945), 6" (1944), 8" (1944) and 12" (1943) J.P. Danielson BET'R GRIP's.

Sweet!

RubiconJK · May 5, 2018

Hope I'm not beating a dead horse too much, but another 6" adjustable found its way home with me from the flea market today. What made me think about posting here is that it is another JPD numbered, square throated adjustable. This one is a Challenger 4006L with the Clik-Stop operation. The date code is T-12-4. I'm not sure if this would be 1964 or maybe even 1974? Any suggestions? Clik-Stop was trademarked by Pendleton in 1958 per AA.

d42jeep · May 5, 2018

At the estate sale we hit yesterday, I found a well used wartime 6” Diamalloy adjustable wrench with unusual forging marks (86) on each side. It’s one of the ones with the broached hanging hole and no horseshoe. I also found a lightly used 8” Proto in the Danielson design.
-Don

Private Lugnutz · May 5, 2018

I have one, too, Don. daveus6 (from G503.com) also has one. Clearly wartime. What that mark is remains a mystery though. Photos of mine below.

d42jeep · May 11, 2018

Here are two wartime 10” adjustable wrenches from my Navy box. The Danielson is 1944 marked and the Diamond is natural finish with the horseshoe missing.
-Don

Vintage Adjustable Wrench-Off: Diamond vs Danielson

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