Pros/cons of French-style "clés à pipes" socket wrenches

4xdog · May 12, 2018

My friends in France reach for their clés à pipes socket wrenches as often as I reach for a combination wrench.

Perhaps because I've not used these all my life, they seem OK, and sometimes truly useful, but it seems surprising they're so common in parts of Europe.

They can be used similarly to a box-end wrench on one end and a nut driver or socket with extension on the other end. They're typically 12-point on the short leg and 6-point on the long leg. The wrenches are sized such that a wrench a few sizes up will fit over the end of a smaller wrench to give additional leverage.

Perhaps some of the folks smarter than I on here can give us some of the pros and cons of this wrench style?

Here are pix of a few in my toolbox, these from Bost Tools of France.

AceofSpad3s · May 12, 2018

Certainly look like something the french would come up with.
All the negatives with the bulk of a ratchet and socket with none of the benefits of fast movement or ability to fit in spaces without much side to side movement.
Looks like they would be useful if you have a narrow space and a bolt on a long stud, or if you need tools that can do multiple functions and be compact.

driftpin · May 12, 2018

I don't know any real advantage to them. I would as-soon reach for a socket/ratchet, because the job would get done quicker using the ratchet function.

They remind me of nut drivers, of limited use, but I suppose in some instance they are handy.

What they remind me of, are the vehicle lug wrenches which come stock on so-many cars/trucks. They don't provide optimum leverage, and are enemies to nut flats. The first thing I do with a new vehicle is find out which socket of a 4-way wrench fits the wheel fasteners, and throw a couple of wraps of electrical tape around that shaft, to make for an easy I.D. at night, should I need to change a flat, and into the trunk it goes.

unslow1 · May 12, 2018

They remind me of a valve lash tool.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ctrp-1012-setting-valve-lash/

Gmonkee · May 12, 2018

They kinda replace a socket set and a wrench set all by themselves. I own and use a set so no "could be" or "looks like" from me.

A bit of a learning curve in making them truly effective but they do work well at many automotive tasks. Mine are effective in my hands but a co-worker struggles with them.

I like mine. The only way to know them is to use a set going in without prejudices. Make them do what the others did. Half of Europe uses them as first line tools. How can they be all bad?

4xdog · May 12, 2018

Here's the FACOM catalog page for their socket wrenches:
https://catalogue.facom.com/uk-en/c...s/produit/76-metric-angled-socket-wrench-sets

Here's the same page on the Proto Industrial Tools page. As they're all part of the greater Stanley Tools ecosystem, one would expect a lot of cross-posting. FWIW, my friends all use the FACOM version.
http://www.protoindustrial.com/en/i...10-Piece-Angled-Socket-Wrench-Set---6-Point-/

Wyoming09 · May 12, 2018

We have a few of them laying on certain machines. They were supplied by the machine builder to change parts. Most of us just use our own tools so I don't see them getting used much.

dnschmidt · May 12, 2018

As weird as it may sound angled socket wrenches were a major factor in getting me to sell TOPTUL tools. I love the things and TOPTUL makes really nice ones. Getting me and my buddies sets of angled socket wrenches was a driving factor in my making first contact with TOPTUL. They didn't sell worth **** but anybody that bought them loves them as they are very comfortable on your hands compared to relatively sharp combination wrenches. You can exert far greater force for a given length with an angled socket wrench because you're not hurting your hand. Great for valve adjustments and on motorcycles where you have screws inside of lock nuts. Eric O. uses the one I sent him for changing out struts which have this exact situation. Trust me they will never be mainstream in America but that's our loss because once you use them you'll like them.

4xdog · May 12, 2018

The TOPTUL site has a useful diagram showing how these wrenches work.

fos373 · May 12, 2018

I picked up a Facom in 10mm to try. I've reached for it once, maybe twice. I'm more likely to reach or a T-handle or a normal socket. Just didn't do it for me

unslow1 · May 12, 2018

I guess to me they look more like what you would improvise with if you were stuck somewhere without tools. Maybe it's just the mindset set of not giving something different a try. Personally I doubt I would ever even try them.

Builder302 · May 12, 2018

Craftsman sold them for a while, they are excellent in certain applications.

SRSemenza · May 13, 2018

4xdog said:
The TOPTUL site has a useful diagram showing how these wrenches work.

Aaah, that drawing explains why the six point is on the long end. It didn't make sense to have the six point on the end with less leverage. But that T handle set up makes sense.

Seth

Jason280 · May 13, 2018

I have a couple sets of these, not sure I've ever actually used them...

MushCreek · May 13, 2018

Great. Now I need to get a set, simply because I don't have one.

Sanny81 · May 13, 2018

I couldn’t imagine a situation I’d use these over a combination wrench or ratchet and socket. And ever since I got the M12 ratchet I almost never use a regular ratchet so these would collect dust for me...doesn’t mean I still kinda want a set though.

thickhead · May 13, 2018

I’ve never used them and don’t have a need for them, so I definitely want a set.

1foxracing · May 13, 2018

I have the Facom models but don't use them to often. It is nice to have something different.

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Mr_B · May 13, 2018

Not that useful, I picked up a toptul set as too cheap miss and thought give them a try and have them on standby for special scenarios.
Kind of okay in smaller sizes as a wrench and nut spinner all in one scenario but it easy live without and certainly not a must have.
couple t-bars, spinner handles and good selection of various length extensions in 1/4 and 3/8 replace these easily and way more adaptable to specific job needs .
t-bar with extension and socket wins almost every time for me over these.
If wasted big bucks on facom or proto branded ones I been pretty upset .

Larryjones · May 13, 2018

You would have a natural affinity to push down own the wrench while torquing and thus have a greater chance of snapping off the fastener. A ratchet and socket doesn't have such a high center of gravity and the old saltus wrenches had the flex coupling.

bob15 · May 13, 2018

McMaster carr sells them in metric and sae

geartow · May 13, 2018

i could see them in say a motorcycle kit for road repairs.

Mr_B · May 13, 2018

^^^
Yeh the old saltus style swivel socket wrenches a far more useful tool than these.
These are certainly not a must have but indeed a nice box filler if you got a chrome addiction or just see them at steal price ...

bob15 · May 13, 2018

They would also work well when working with thread rods and nut depths greater/deeper than a socket depth and gives you better hand/finger clearance.

Ji m · May 13, 2018

I could see keeping a couple around as dedicated oil plug wrenches, or something similar.

But mostly I can see very little advantage over a box, or offset box wrench.

If I had to find a use,
I'd say for production work where you had multiple workers assembling things that that had the clearance to fully spin the wrench it would be cheaper/less stuff to lose vs having a ratchet & socket for each assembly worker.

Plus no one is going to steal the thing :lol:

The in line side could help lining up the nut/bolt and spinning it up before cranking it tight with the 90* side.

davewo · May 13, 2018

I don't have a set, but I've been in quite a few situations when a socket wrench is too bulky, but a combo wrench lacks the depth to clear an obstacle.

Gmonkee · May 13, 2018

Mr_B said:
Not that useful, I picked up a toptul set as too cheap miss and thought give them a try and have them on standby for special scenarios.
Kind of okay in smaller sizes as a wrench and nut spinner all in one scenario but it easy live without and certainly not a must have.
couple t-bars, spinner handles and good selection of various length extensions in 1/4 and 3/8 replace these easily and way more adaptable to specific job needs .
t-bar with extension and socket wins almost every time for me over these.
If wasted big bucks on facom or proto branded ones I been pretty upset .

You obviously do not embrace minimalist ideas. They eliminate the need to carry full socket sets with all the trappings for regular uses. Special situations will require special tools. Ten wrenches and a screwdriver as T or extension handle. Double duty as possible.
They also can make box ends optional but not open ends in all cases.

My work kit has a small 3/8" socket set for speed issues but really for the most part I could avoid using it.

Its not hard to guess who never thinks of things as multiple use/scenario tools.

Fedwrench · May 13, 2018

I chalk it up to being a European Tool thing. They might handy in some situations but, never really caught on here in the USA.
Kind of like ball peen hammers are popular here but, cross peen hammers are more popular in europe or red is a popular color for tool boxes here while green seems popular in europe :dunno:

Mr_B · May 13, 2018

Gmonkee said:
You obviously do not embrace minimalist ideas. They eliminate the need to carry full socket sets with all the trappings for regular uses. Special situations will require special tools. Ten wrenches and a screwdriver as T or extension handle. Double duty as possible.
They also can make box ends optional but not open ends in all cases.

My work kit has a small 3/8" socket set for speed issues but really for the most part I could avoid using it.

Its not hard to guess who never thinks of things as multiple use/scenario tools.

!!! :-S
No, that pretty much why I wouldn't bother with them much as in a minimalist approach and thinking in multi use scenarios I can make standard socketry cover socket wrenches, nut spinners etc . I can triple duty a socket rail set with few extensions, t-bar and small knuckle bar .

Kasal · May 13, 2018

In my country they are known as pipe wrenches, they are very useful to disassemble the front shock absorbers.
I do not have any pictures, but to get an idea, change the T-handle key to an open head pipe.

4xdog · May 13, 2018

Kasal said:
In my country they are known as pipe wrenches...

That's pretty much the French word, too. In American English, we use "pipe wrench" for one of these. The names refer to different kinds of "pipe", though!

The US pipe wrench is called a Stillson wrench in the UK, for the name of the American inventor (which we don't use.)

Mr_B · May 13, 2018

Kasal said:
In my country they are known as pipe wrenches, they are very useful to disassemble the front shock absorbers.
I do not have any pictures, but to get an idea, change the T-handle key to an open head pipe.

I tend use an impact, one time I did try that on aftermarket shocks and lift spacer assembly at the bench it wouldn't work as the aftermarket nut was 19mm and oe was 17mm so not enough clearance as wall thickness bit chunky so back to impact and chrome socket . They got uses but just not that many besides go through scenario and that special scenario where just right shaped tool work the easiest, not something I have out on the tool trolley daily .

Kasal · May 13, 2018

4xdog said:
That's pretty much the French word, too. In American English, we use "pipe wrench" for one of these. The names refer to different kinds of "pipe", though!

The US pipe wrench is called a Stillson wrench in the UK, for the name of the American inventor (which we don't use.)

If here it is also known as a stillson key

Kasal · May 13, 2018

Mr_B said:
I tend use an impact, one time I did try that on aftermarket shocks and lift spacer assembly at the bench it wouldn't work as the aftermarket nut was 19mm and oe was 17mm so not enough clearance as wall thickness bit chunky so back to impact and chrome socket . They got uses but just not that many besides go through scenario and that special scenario where just right shaped tool work the easiest, not something I have out on the tool trolley daily .

Oh if an impact would be the best and fastest.
I even used a cranked key for not having other tools.

mfewtrail · May 14, 2018

Kasal said:
In my country they are known as pipe wrenches, they are very useful to disassemble the front shock absorbers.
I do not have any pictures, but to get an idea, change the T-handle key to an open head pipe.

Those facom style posted on page one look like they would be perfect for shocks/struts since the openings in the end for a torx, hex, or whatever to pass through are sorta large.

Kasal · May 14, 2018

mfewtrail said:
Those facom style posted on page one look like they would be perfect for shocks/struts since the openings in the end for a torx, hex, or whatever to pass through are sorta large.

Yes, those on the first page are fantastic, but I do not know if I could justify the expense of the game, when it was only used once or twice a year.

Mr. Tool · May 14, 2018

......the shape and style of these tools remind me of that lame little nut lug wrench that comes with your vehicles spare tire accessories, jack, etc.

4xdog said:
Here's the FACOM catalog page for their socket wrenches:
https://catalogue.facom.com/uk-en/c...s/produit/76-metric-angled-socket-wrench-sets

Here's the same page on the Proto Industrial Tools page. As they're all part of the greater Stanley Tools ecosystem, one would expect a lot of cross-posting. FWIW, my friends all use the FACOM version.
http://www.protoindustrial.com/en/i...10-Piece-Angled-Socket-Wrench-Set---6-Point-/

toolmutt · May 14, 2018

thickhead said:
I’ve never used them and don’t have a need for them, so I definitely want a set.

Nominee for GJer of the year award right there! :beer:

P.S. I want a set, too.

Gmonkee · May 14, 2018

Seems to be a few sets that could be easily resold just by folks in this thread.

I am keeping mine.

supersaiyan93 · May 14, 2018

First thing I thought of. (this took way too long to do).

Pros/cons of French-style "clés à pipes" socket wrenches

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