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1/2 Garage mezzanine

2point2

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Dec 2, 2014
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Hey Everyone.

I have a double garage with a lot of wasted space due to high ceilings. The height is just shy of 14'. I just finished a high-lift conversion.

I've made the decision over the last few weeks that I'm ok with an 8' ceiling height over the left bay of my garage.

The garage is on a 4ft poured foundation.

Anyone see any fundamental issues with structure? I'm having trouble finding info on how to attach the ledger board to a 2x6 framed wall. My plan is to very carefully centre screws onto the studs and use 2x6 supports flat against the wall.


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w33b8t1

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how are you supporting the lvl at the garage door side?

As for the ledger, will it be straight to the studs or with sheathing inbetween?

Why a 2x12?

I would use more 2x6s for the column and go up at least one side of the lvl to keep the connection nice and strong.
 
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2point2

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The lvl on the garage door side will be supported the same way. It's in the pic, but i think my garage door assemblies are offset.

I originally had a 2x8 on the wall side. I guess because it's only$15-30 more to oversize... the gains are probably negligible?

I was meaning to draw a 'slot' on the 2x6's for the lvl to sit into and was hoping that someone might suggest a metal product that could something similar. I had a hard time googling images of how an LVL usually sits on 2x lumber.. What is the common practice?
 

w33b8t1

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I think those saddle type brackets look like poo when everything else is exposed wood. I would stick with scabbing on the side/s of the LVL.

Would be nice if you could tie it to the front wall too, but once you cover it, it might be stable enough.

Not sure on the ledger, I suppose if you add enough screws it helps. Probably going to do more for aesthetics since joist hangers need a little extra room at the bottom.

Drill a hole under that column and pin the column to the floor with an anchor or bolt or something. Doesn't have to be officially fastened, but at least a pin where if you hit the column with something it all doesn't come crashing down.

looks good.
 
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driftpin

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The garage is on a 4ft poured foundation-a typo? "Four inch," perhaps?

I am not a P.E., not a G.C., nor a structural engineer.

You could use a 2 x 4 at the bottom of the 2 x 12 for your mezzanine floor joists to rest-upon, or are you going to use some Simpson strong-tie U-shaped saddles for the floor joists? That would eliminate the need for the 2 x 4, and you could reduce the ledger board to a 2 x 10" and still provide room for the Simpson U-brackets, unless the 2 x 10" doesn't provide enough distance from the fasteners of the brackets, to the edge of the ledger, then you would need a 2 x 12" ledger.

I think I would use at-least 5" length fasteners for anchoring the (let's call it) 2 x 10 ledger board to the wall 2 x 6" studs. The thickness of the ledger, 1-5/8" plus 5/8" type X drywall = 2-1/4" thickness, and that would give you 2-3/4" screw penetration into the 2 x 6" wall studs. You might consider 6" long screws, then you would have 3-3/4" penetration into the wall studs. I would suggest a minimum of three fasteners per wall stud/ledger, top and bottom a minimum of 2" from the ledger edge.

As for the triple 2 x 6" end of the LVL beam connection, some type of flat steel gusset plate, through-bolted to the 2 x 6's and to the LVL with two 1/2" steel bolts per structural member should take care of that. I expect you would want to do something similar to the opposite end in-between the garage doors. A pair of similar angle brackets for the foot of the 2 x 6 column, on opposite sides, and tamp-in threaded pins or epoxied threaded pins should be used.

Is the OH door a gable end? That means the side wall of the mezzanine is going to be a lower roofline than going towards the middle of the garage, the long side dimension of the loft. Are you going to have any rail or protection from stepping-off the elevated floor of the mezzanine? Also, what is to be your access to the mezzanine? Do you have room for stairs, were you going to use a fold-down attic ladder (which would eat-up considerable floor space), or are you going to use an A-frame ladder, because it will be an infrequently-used/accessed space?

I put in a mezzanine in the back-half of my 2-car garage and have about 240 sq. ft. of storage. I put a jib crane up there, hanging over the edge, to allow me to safely move heavy objects up/down. That worked better than an I-beam and trolley at the ridge beam which would have significantly cut-down on the headroom in the mezzanine.

It's always good to have a P.E. review your design to ensure that it will meet the static/dead loads you may introduce there. Yes, it costs $ but you have an expectation of safety and durability/suitability for your intended use.
 
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firebirdparts

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Anyone see any fundamental issues with structure? I'm having trouble finding info on how to attach the ledger board to a 2x6 framed wall.

The ledger board is strong, no problem. The vertical supports are plenty adequate. If you did it without the vertical supports, then the joinery would matter, but as you have it designed, it doesn't.

The problem is half the structure is supported on a 22 foot span. The weight it can carry will be determined by that beam. No amount of framing lumber will hold there, so you'll have to go to an engineered beam. If you put a post down and break it into 2 x 11, then ordinary framing lumber will work but then it would probably be right where your car door is. Overall I think it's a solid design.
 

yeldogt

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So the garage door goes behind and over ?

What are you planning to place up there ? The reason I ask is I had a garage where the previous owner did as you propose --- I hated it. Getting up there (ladder) and getting anything in the back was a pain. Took it down and made a deep shelf all the way around the garage 3 sides -- it was big enough to hold the largest rubbermade tub. More useful and held more.

for your original: The wall studs will hold the one side ---- you can use a full cleat under it if you feel you must --- it's like attaching a deck.

You will have to get an engineered beam for the other side -- make sure to place angle lumber to keep the 4x4 or 4x6 from kicking out
 
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mcbane

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Where are you located? Are earthquakes an issue? If so you would want a bit of lateral support rather than just a column at the corner.
 

Homerr

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Seattle, WA
I ran your layout through Weyerhauser's Forte software and the 2 LVL's fail by quite a bit. I would suggest either of the following:

5.25"x16" 2.0E PSL
5.5"x16.5" 24F-V4 DF Glulam beam

Depending on your part of the country there may be other wood species to consider as well.

The triple 2x6 will support the mezzanine beam just fine and the concrete foundation is full adequate as well. Any sort of positive connection will work here - a strap, EPCZ, ACE connectors - but you may find that using a 6x6 post will allow easier sizing and connection being 5.5" instead or 4.5" wide.


Additionally, note that ledger screws in to the narrow face of a stud have a lesser load capacity. See attached pic. Assuming your ledger is supported on tuds at 16" o.c. then each stud connection is carrying 355#. I'd go with (3) SDS25412 screws in to each stud (the 2x12 ledger sounds good for this) to provide a safety factor. The 2x8 joists hangers can be LUS26 hangers, they have plenty of load capacity. Don't sandwich sheetrock between your ledger and the studs, remove the sheetrock if there is any present.

Note that the 2x8's work for your loading specified (I've assumed Hem-Fir, ymmv with other species), but that if you think you'll tend to overload the space with heavy auto parts I would strongly consider upping the joists to 2x10, (4) screws supporting the ledger, and LUS28 hangers.
 

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2point2

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Wow. this forum is the best. Thanks for the feedback!

I have some interesting ideas for the stairs, decided to make it a separate project. For the short term I will use an a-frame ladder. My goal is to make access comfortable enough for my wife - who is very uncomfortable on ladders.

Not an earthquake zone. typical early 90's construction in Southern Ontario Canada (4 foot deep poured wall with footings?). Built on a great base as we don't have clay in my area of town. I've drilled into the pad a few weeks ago, it is between 5-6".

I will be looking into longer fasteners, I didn't realize GRKs came in 3/8 with a variety of lengths. The foundation is 8" proud of the floor, I can probably do something with tapcons to tie the columns into the wall.

The garage door goes behind and over. I'll have a little under 5' of height to scoot around.
 
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2point2

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Homerr, thanks for the input. I read your post several times and have taken notes.

I'll have a second look, but I couldn't find non-pressured treated 6x6. Using pressure treated wood inside of walls around here is against code.

I used Forte to get to the 2 - 11 7/8 LVLs result. I just re-did my calc with more conservative inputs and got the same result. Here are my inputs and solution...

1_Member.jpg


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2_Spans%20and%20Supports.jpg


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3_Loads.jpg


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7_Solutions.jpg
 

finn

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Another vote for a wide shelf instead of a mezzanine that is only in the vicinity of five feet high. Unless you are really short, it’s difficult to do things at that height, and having to drag out a ladder and maneuver onto the deck is a pain.

Much easier to have clearly marked bins with direct access, and no support posts in the middle of the garage floor..
 
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2point2

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I wont have support posts in the middle of the floor.. i'm 5'4" and my wife is 5'2".

I've decided over a 3 year period that I want a mezzanine, and not a shelf. I have two sets of wide shelves right now and I hate removing objects from the top shelf. I've been lurking GJ for 3 years and my plan is mezzanine, heavy duty attic stairs (placement TBD), and a mechanical method to lift SUV tires etc.. .
 

GS-Louie

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I have a mezzanine in my work garage. If I remember correctly the size is 24' W X 32'D. The mezzanine is built across the width of the garage, The ledgers on the 3 sides are 2X12s. The LVL is at lest 3" thick and about 16" tall.

The ledgers are attached to the walls with long screws of some kind directly in to the studs on 16" centers. The joists are 2X12 and are attached at each end with metal joist hangers. The LVL sits on 4X4 posts screwed in to a stud on each end. The floor is 3/4" plywood.

It stores some "stuff" that is used infrequently so I have been using an extension ladder for access which is stored not far away. I saw a post on here recently about an extension attic ladder that I plan to look in to.

Lou
 

C_F

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I made something similar to what you've drawn up, but mine is L shaped & doesn't go all the way to the garage door. The front part is 16 feet long, 8 feet wide, then the rear part of the L is 4 feet wide & I forget how long. I have 2x8 boards on the sides, with 2x6 boards for the joists, the floor is 1/2 thick MDF board.
Along the wall, I screwed the 2x8 to the wall studs every 16". The other side is sunk into pressure treated 4x4 legs. I don't have a ton of weight up there, maybe 5-600 pounds total. It's very solid & hasn't budged an inch since '06. :thumbup:
6qTczfBq.jpg


2rk9BfBq.jpg


This shows the L portion going along the back wall. There are two 2x4 supports supported by ceiling trusses. I ran a 4x4 post across 4 trusses in the attic, then ran a U-shaped steel strap over the 4x4, then through slits in the drywall & screwed it tight to the 2x4. Again, I don't have much weight up there, I would guess around 250 pounds along the back wall. When I climb up there & crawl around for stuff (making it 450 lbs), it is very solid & doesn't feel like it will crash to the floor.
Please pardon my mess. :(
ZK6czfBq.jpg


This mess is what I eliminated...
GFN3yfBq.jpg
 
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driftpin

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Looks like it should do the job. Do you have additional storage for your 'Max, 'cause I don't see it? And, is that a '70 Charger coupe w/some big Mopar engine and a Torqueflite? Maybe an -ex police car?


I made something similar to what you've drawn up, but mine is L shaped & doesn't go all the way to the garage door. The front part is 16 feet long, 8 feet wide, then the rear part of the L is 4 feet wide & I forget how long. I have 2x8 boards on the sides, with 2x6 boards for the joists, the floor is 1/2 thick MDF board.
Along the wall, I screwed the 2x8 to the wall studs every 16". The other side is sunk into pressure treated 4x4 legs. I don't have a ton of weight up there, maybe 5-600 pounds total. It's very solid & hasn't budged an inch since '06. :thumbup:
6qTczfBq.jpg


2rk9BfBq.jpg


This shows the L portion going along the back wall. There are two 2x4 supports supported by ceiling trusses. I ran a 4x4 post across 4 trusses in the attic, then ran a U-shaped steel strap over the 4x4, then through slits in the drywall & screwed it tight to the 2x4. Again, I don't have much weight up there, I would guess around 250 pounds along the back wall. When I climb up there & crawl around for stuff (making it 450 lbs), it is very solid & doesn't feel like it will crash to the floor.
Please pardon my mess. :(
ZK6czfBq.jpg


This mess is what I eliminated...
GFN3yfBq.jpg
 
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langss

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Location
California
I made something similar to what you've drawn up, but mine is L shaped & doesn't go all the way to the garage door. The front part is 16 feet long, 8 feet wide, then the rear part of the L is 4 feet wide & I forget how long. I have 2x8 boards on the sides, with 2x6 boards for the joists, the floor is 1/2 thick MDF board.
Along the wall, I screwed the 2x8 to the wall studs every 16". The other side is sunk into pressure treated 4x4 legs. I don't have a ton of weight up there, maybe 5-600 pounds total. It's very solid & hasn't budged an inch since '06. :thumbup:
6qTczfBq.jpg


2rk9BfBq.jpg


This shows the L portion going along the back wall. There are two 2x4 supports supported by ceiling trusses. I ran a 4x4 post across 4 trusses in the attic, then ran a U-shaped steel strap over the 4x4, then through slits in the drywall & screwed it tight to the 2x4. Again, I don't have much weight up there, I would guess around 250 pounds along the back wall. When I climb up there & crawl around for stuff (making it 450 lbs), it is very solid & doesn't feel like it will crash to the floor.
Please pardon my mess. :(
ZK6czfBq.jpg


This mess is what I eliminated...
GFN3yfBq.jpg
Thank You. I have been trying to decide if this was even feasible, and seeing your pictures made up my mind. I have a car I need to get into the garage, but all the stuff on the floor prevents it. I only have 8ft from the floor to the Structure, so hanging anything is not really going to work. But I can fit an 8'x16' freestanding structure to get all the stuff off the floor. It only has to be tall enough to get the car under it, so that would give me close to 3 1/2 feet above for storage.
 
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2point2

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Homerr, thanks for the input. ....

....I just re-did my calc with more conservative inputs and got the same result. Here are my inputs and solution...

Tributary width. It's important. :tard: The lumber yard wants $75 to do a calc... might be worth it.
 

Homerr

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Yeah, calcs are easy as long as everything is included!

Not sure on the pressure treated issue you are talking about as it relates to Forte. Do you mean DF (Doug-Fir)? (Products tab and check box for glulam if this is the case.)

You're close with your calc, change trib. width as you noted. Also, the 'Spans and Supports' tab a few notes for reference or posterity -

You noted bearing on (3)2x6 so your bearing length should be 4.5" or 5.5" depending on orientation.

'Stud wall' is okay because it is checking the crushing of the bottom plate. Think of the vertical grain of the stud or post pressing down on the horizontal fibers of the bottom plate(s) - they are less strong in this orientation in compression.

Is SPF (Spruce-Pine-Fir) used in your area? I ask because it is the default for the program and it's another important factor, especially in regard to plate crushing.

Accessory can be changed to 'blocking' since there is no rim board here, and a rim board selection would just shorten the bearing length by 1.25".


The $75 still might be worth it and offset by the lumber yard helping you pick what is locally a cheaper option. Here in the Seattle area LVLs are nearly double the cost of glulam beams for the same application.
 
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2point2

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Radix, the 10'8" is an estimate. I'll get exact measurements after i take off the drywall and looks at stud placements... but I understand how to get to the 5'4" now.

Hey Homerr, thanks again.

everything is S-P-F #2OB around here (1 hour outside of Toronto). DF is only available at specialty lumber yards.

PT/6x6 issue is not related to Forte, it's a code issue. I'm going to call a real lumber yard tomorrow and see if i can get non-treated 6x6's...
 

C_F

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Thank You. I have been trying to decide if this was even feasible, and seeing your pictures made up my mind. I have a car I need to get into the garage, but all the stuff on the floor prevents it. I only have 8ft from the floor to the Structure, so hanging anything is not really going to work. But I can fit an 8'x16' freestanding structure to get all the stuff off the floor. It only has to be tall enough to get the car under it, so that would give me close to 3 1/2 feet above for storage.
Glad I could help you decide whether or not it may work for you. :)

Looks like it should do the job. Do you have additional storage for your 'Max, 'cause I don't see it? And, is that a '70 Charger coupe w/some big Mopar engine and a Torqueflite? Maybe an -ex police car?
Those photos were taken sometime during February. The 'Max spends the winters in a spare bedroom. :D
6361GFzs.jpg


From spring to fall, I kick out whatever vehicle is in that spot & use it for bike parking. (sorry about the blurry photo)
B2jyyYzs.jpg


Good eye with the Charger! It's a '70 Charger 500, which means it has some extra factory options like A/C, bucket seats, console & upgraded interior. However mine has a 318 engine & 904 trans, so it's no ground pounder. :D It's been my project car/garage queen for a few years, as funds & time allows.
 

langss

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California
Glad I could help you decide whether or not it may work for you. :)
Yes, Thank You again. I was really on the fence, but seeing what you actually did as opposed to what I think would work, is great. For me it will be like having a 4 Post lift without spending the money since I do not have the clearance for it anyway. Most of what is on the floor now is just stuff I don't want exposed to the elements. Before I moved, all that stuff was sitting on two 4x8 sheets of really thin plywood just laying on the structure above two cars, and went through the Northridge Earthquake without falling down, so no real weight issue..
 
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