Short 1/4" vs Short 3/8" Sockets

sweet victory · Jun 24, 2018

Accidentally posted before finishing what I wanted to write...

Was just curious how other brands compare to GearWrench. Pictured below are GW's short, mid length, and long 10mm sockets in 1/4" drive and 3/8" drive. I was removing a door latch/handle mechanism and was wishing I had a shorter socket. As you can see the 1/4" drive socket is the same length as the 10mm 3/8" drive socket; it's nearly the length of the mid length socket! Does anyone know if other brands have shorter 1/4" drive sockets? Thanks

Fedwrench · Jun 24, 2018

Just about all Taiwan made 1/4 drive sockets are on the long side. You could try us made 1/4 drive sockets from SK or Proto.
Koken makes zeal sockets in 1/4 drive that are really short.

jherm · Jun 24, 2018

Buy extras and cut them shorter.. You can always look for more, but nothing wrong with modified tool.

mudflap · Jun 24, 2018

jherm said:
Buy extras and cut them shorter.. You can always look for more, but nothing wrong with modified tool.

The broach on the GW deeps is really shallow..so can't do that with them

plinker · Jun 24, 2018

Compared to my older Craftsman, S-K & Snap-on 1/4 shallow sockets, the Gearwrench are about 1/8" taller for whatever reason. It's somewhat annoying actually.

FWIW, In a Snap-on flyer a couple months ago they had some extra shallow sockets with a external hex as well. IIRC, they were pricey (nothing new).

M6erfan · Jun 24, 2018

Yep, Ko-Ken Zeal sockets. Outstanding quality, but you'll pay more that GW

WittHay · Jun 24, 2018

Plinker, beat me to it. Snap-on is the first choice, 7/8" long. Old Craftsman is the same length. Use 1/4 drive sockets for grease zerks. Actually wear out 5/16" socket sizes. The Taiwan brands are kind of useless around universal joints and other tight applications

AmishFury · Jun 24, 2018

Fedwrench said:
Just about all Taiwan made 1/4 drive sockets are on the long side. You could try us made 1/4 drive sockets from SK or Proto.
Koken makes zeal sockets in 1/4 drive that are really short.

this pretty much

as far as standard 1/4" sockets my gearwrench set is among the tallest i have... while the 3/8" are a bit shorter than most

Wamsutta · Jun 25, 2018

My favorite 1/4 drive sockets are the USA made MACs. They have a real thin wall and they have the detents in the perfect spot.

sweet victory · Jun 25, 2018

mudflap said:
The broach on the GW deeps is really shallow..so can't do that with them

The broach goes all the way to the 1/4" drive on my GW sockets. The mid lengths are the same way. The only sockets with a shallow broach are the deep well and swivel sockets.

sweet victory · Jun 25, 2018

M6erfan said:
Yep, Ko-Ken Zeal sockets. Outstanding quality, but you'll pay more that GW

Fedwrench said:
Just about all Taiwan made 1/4 drive sockets are on the long side. You could try us made 1/4 drive sockets from SK or Proto.
Koken makes zeal sockets in 1/4 drive that are really short.

I'll definitely look into the koken sockets. These gear wrench sockets are my "starter sockets" and I've been slowly adding more USA made tools to my collection. Does koken have their own version of flank drive?

BK13 · Jun 25, 2018

sweet victory said:
Does koken have their own version of flank drive?

IIRC, KoKen’s ‘Flat Drive’ is their version of Snappy’s ‘Flank Drive’. They also have ‘Surface Drive’ which supposedly really grips damaged fasteners. I don’t think the SD is offered in the Zeal line, though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Negen · Jun 25, 2018

Here are some of the koken socket sizes for reference. I only did the metric lengths but the sae sizes are very similar. As of now there are no SAE zeal series which is why I only listed the lengths of metric sockets.

Zeal 1/4"drive
Koken 2400mz 4mm-7mm 14mm long
2400mz 8-14mm 15mm long
koken 2300xz 5.5mm-14mm 30mm long
Koken 2300MZ 4mm-14mm 50mm long

Non-zeal 1/4" drive
koken 2400m 3mm-14mm 22mm long
koken 2300x 4mm-14mm 32mm long
koken 2310 3-14mm 50mm long

Koken Zeal 3/8" drive
Koken 3400MZ 5.5-7mm 19mm long
3400MZ 8-10mm 20mm long
3400MZ 11-17mm 21mm long
3400MZ 18-19mm 22mm long
3400MZ 21-22mm 23mm long

Koken 3300XZ 7-19mm 35mm long
Koken 3300MZ 7-19mm 50mm long

Koken Non-zeal 3/8" drive
Koken 3400M 5-13mm 26mm long
3400M 14mm 27mm long
3400M 15-16 28mm long
3400M 17mm 29mm long
3400M 18-19mm 30mm long
3400M 20mm 31mm long
3400M 21-22mm 32mm long
3400M 23mm 33mm long
3400M 24mm-25mm 34mm long
3400M 26mm 35mm long

Koken 3300X 8-19mm 40mm long

Koken 3300M 5.5-19mm 55mm long
3300M 20-27mm 65mm long
3300M(L-120) 8mm-14mm 120mm long

1320 · Jun 25, 2018

Here are the 1/4" and 3/8" 10mm shallow sockets that I have.

3/8" drive Craftsman, 1/4" drive Bonney, 1/4" drive SK, 1/4" drive Craftsman, 1/4" drive unknown shorty.

I don't know where I got the short 1/4" drive 10MM socket, but I have used it a few times where whatever else I had wouldn't work. It seems like a low profile socket, though I don't have any others to compare it to. It does not have any detents, nor does it fit down flush onto any ratchet that I have.

potato · Jun 25, 2018

get some low profile sockets.alot of companies have them.i have the OEM branded set and they are decent.

Rico. · Jun 25, 2018

potato said:
get some low profile sockets.alot of companies have them.i have the OEM branded set and they are decent.

I bought a cheap set of pass through sockets. There are many sets available and
they serve double duty as an ultra low profile socket. Found a random pic on Google
to illustrate.

Finky198 · Jun 25, 2018

+1 on this ^^^ I have older craftsman so my shallows are pretty shallow and I have pass thru's like above to supplement the need for super low profiles. I still need sets of mid lengths though... then ill have 4 depths each in 1/4 and 3/8 not including impact, swivels, ect...

Imho you can never have enough sockets, ratchet, and drive accessory. As cramped and as complicated as things are built today... So every little bit of additional access that makes life a little easier... is worth it in my book...

2ndGearRubber · Jun 25, 2018

Koken is the affordable option. Yes, I agree the length of many 1/4 sockets is ridiculous. The zeal series is a hair longer than snap on, yet is 25% of the cost. Frank's tools has them.

Only downside, is the lack of 9mm and 15mm in the 1/4 set.

scubadoober · Jun 25, 2018

My blackhawk 1/4 drive sockets are definitely shorter than the 3/8 equivalent. I will measure.

Mr Ratchet · Jun 25, 2018

I'll third the suggestion for pass through. I have a 1/4" and 3/8" Kobalt set that's made by Gearwrench and they are very low profile. They have worked well every time I needed to use than and glad I had them. With their extensions they also double as very deep walls

DadsTools · Jun 25, 2018

Yes, I too wonder about the height of lots of 1/4" drive stuff.

The pass-thru sockets are an interesting option. They're definitely shallower than standard sockets.

There's a lot of vintage stuff that's shallow like SK from the days where the 1/4" drive was almost an accessory item. They'd come in those super-shallow metal boxes where the sockets would have to be short to fit in. But good luck finding the metric sizes!

If they're broached right, the suggestion of cutting down a set sounds viable to me--if I were in a one-off situation where I needed a single super-shallow 1/4" drive socket, that's probably what I'd do, although I've got lots of spare tools laying around. You could make yourself a set that might be shallower than anything off the shelf. Sounds like there's some good suggestions in here too for off-the-shelf brands.

Good luck with your hunt.

Mr_B · Jun 25, 2018

You'll find most run of the mill taiwan and the likes 1/4 sockets be same or almost same height as 3/8 drive.
I got koken 1/4 and they way shorter and more slender bodied so far more usable in space issue scenarios and worthy of having as too large sized 1/4 sockets almost a waste of time owning .

scubadoober · Jun 25, 2018

I measured the blackhawk 10mm in 3/8 drive at .945 (24mm) long. I measured the 10mm 1/4 drive at .856 (21.7mm) long.

Mr Ratchet · Jun 26, 2018

Here are my CM 10mm in 1/4" and 3/8" along with my Kobalt pass through (Vortex) in the same drive sizes.

Here they are on ratchets. The 1/4" sq drive is as tall as the 3/8" pass through. The 1/4" socket is on my older SO flex head. My newer 1/4' SO ratchet has a head about as thick as my 3/8" Kolbalt (Vortex) and 3/8" Armstrong ratchet on the left.

PR1Gneon · Jun 26, 2018

Astro nano sockets vs Craftsman 1/4 10mm

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

sweet victory · Jul 13, 2018

Time to update this thread.

My short snap on sockets came in today. Not completely sure if I can call them an "upgrade," but they are definitely shorter. Here are: 1/4" drive snap on, 1/4" drive gear wrench, and 3/8" gear wrench. All sockets are 10mm.

DSC01123 by P A, on Flickr

Here's why I don't necessarily consider them an "upgrade." I used a set of calipers to measure the broach depths. The Snap On's measured ~.315" where the gear wrenches came in at ~.515". I also like the knurling on the GW sockets more. They can be used to turn the socket; not so much on the SO's.

DSC01125 by P A, on Flickr

a52-830 · Jul 13, 2018

just to make sure i understand, those GW sockets in your example are "regular" depth sockets, correct? if not, can you provide me a pointer to them?

sweet victory · Jul 13, 2018

I got them in a SAE/Metric 1/4" Drive Master Socket set from Cripe Distributing. PN for the kit was 80318; I believe it was new old stock. They're 'regular' sockets. The 3/8" sockets I got from Auto Zone also have the full depth broach. (Also made in Taiwan)

franzdom · Jul 13, 2018

There are also stubby sockets from Snap-On, they are significantly short as their drive goes inside the ratchet instead of over it.

sweet victory · Jul 13, 2018

franzdom said:
There are also stubby sockets from Snap-On, they are significantly short as their drive goes inside the ratchet instead of over it.

I'd like to get that in the future. I saw this brand new set for about $70 shipped on ebay, so I figured why not.

Tallpilot · Jul 13, 2018

There are stubby sockets which are just shorter sockets and there are low profile sockets where the drive end goes into the ratchet and there are pass through that are hollow low profile. Snap-on is great if you want to spend the money but the 1/4 pass through Gearwrench set will also cover your low clearance situations.

https://www.mechanicstoolswarehouse...pHDpDqBOUhcYlTOK3BEOGp2tgjS6M7EsaAvcUEALw_wcB

sweet victory · Jul 13, 2018

Tallpilot said:
There are stubby sockets which are just shorter sockets and there are low profile sockets where the drive end goes into the ratchet and there are pass through that are hollow low profile. Snap-on is great if you want to spend the money but the 1/4 pass through Gearwrench set will also cover your low clearance situations.

https://www.mechanicstoolswarehouse...pHDpDqBOUhcYlTOK3BEOGp2tgjS6M7EsaAvcUEALw_wcB

Appreicate the input. I think I will stick with the SO’s though. They have the ability to be used with any 1/4” ratchet or extension.

a52-830 · Jul 13, 2018

Tallpilot said:
There are stubby sockets which are just shorter sockets and there are low profile sockets where the drive end goes into the ratchet and there are pass through that are hollow low profile. Snap-on is great if you want to spend the money but the 1/4 pass through Gearwrench set will also cover your low clearance situations.

https://www.mechanicstoolswarehouse...pHDpDqBOUhcYlTOK3BEOGp2tgjS6M7EsaAvcUEALw_wcB

sweet victory said:
Appreicate the input. I think I will stick with the SO’s though. They have the ability to be used with any 1/4” ratchet or extension.

just so everyone knows, there are several GW sets of this type, starting at around 40$ on amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002U2ODO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

they are also available from other vendors, although i dont think they are all interchangeable . . . .

ssdave · Jul 16, 2018

Here's my 10mm sockets in 1/4" and 3/8" drive and pass through:

1/4" SO, SO pass-through, Proto 3/8", Proto 1/4". Then pictures of the pass-through ratchet/socket.

Strouty · Jul 16, 2018

If you want shallow drive capabilities, the ratcheting wrench adapters work well. I have a set of these, but may brands make them, seems like it is hard to mess them up.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002NYCZE/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Use these with any low profile socket and you have a great setup.

The broaching complaint that you have on the 1/2" Snap On socket, I am still trying to understand where a deep broach would help you in any way? The shallow broach allows for the nut to be held in place when starting the bolt, deep broach lets it float away. The shallow broach doesn't stop the thread portion of the bolt from going all the way to the square drive, so it won't interfere in that way. Lastly, the socket would be stronger, especially when using the sockets with the really long 1/4" drive ratchets Snap On makes.

AmishFury · Jul 16, 2018

sweet victory said:
I also like the knurling on the GW sockets more. They can be used to turn the socket; not so much on the SO's.

to be fair the SO isn't knurling so much as a marking for quick visual reference to know you're looking at a metric socket... SAE uses a solid indented band above and below the brand/size/part# stampings similar to SK

xin · Jul 16, 2018

ssdave said:
Here's my 10mm sockets in 1/4" and 3/8" drive and pass through:

1/4" SO, SO pass-through, Proto 3/8", Proto 1/4". Then pictures of the pass-through ratchet/socket.

Using it everyday and needing it to work I would buy the Snapon myself. The pass-thru setups seem very clunky and would never get used.

sweet victory · Jul 16, 2018

AmishFury said:
to be fair the SO isn't knurling so much as a marking for quick visual reference to know you're looking at a metric socket... SAE uses a solid indented band above and below the brand/size/part# stampings similar to SK

I actually don't own any SAE snap on sockets, so I did not know that! Thanks for sharing

sweet victory · Jul 16, 2018

Strouty said:
The broaching complaint that you have on the 1/2" Snap On socket, I am still trying to understand where a deep broach would help you in any way? The shallow broach allows for the nut to be held in place when starting the bolt, deep broach lets it float away. The shallow broach doesn't stop the thread portion of the bolt from going all the way to the square drive, so it won't interfere in that way. Lastly, the socket would be stronger, especially when using the sockets with the really long 1/4" drive ratchets Snap On makes.

I wouldn't call it a complaint, just more of an observation. I honestly can't think of a reason where a deeper broach would be beneficial; as long as a short stud can pass through, and a socket can fully seat, it doesn't really matter. I think I got the impression from the forum that a shallow broach was associated with lower quality, so I must've been somewhere along that thought process.

sweet victory · Jul 16, 2018

ssdave said:
Here's my 10mm sockets in 1/4" and 3/8" drive and pass through:

1/4" SO, SO pass-through, Proto 3/8", Proto 1/4". Then pictures of the pass-through ratchet/socket.

If you had ratcheting combination wrenches, which would you rather use? Right now I'm leaning towards the wrenches. And if you had something like the EZ-Red/monster/mounting offset ratcheting wrenches, fasteners in blind holes would also be covered.

Short 1/4" vs Short 3/8" Sockets

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