Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdrivers

tanukiboy · Jun 30, 2018

Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdrivers

It seems that there is a lot of confusion regarding the various types of recessed cross-head screws and screwdrivers -- well, for me anyway!

Most folks are aware that JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) screwdrivers and US phillips screwdrivers are different, and that JIS screwdrivers usually work okay with phillips screws, but not vice versa. The tip of a phillips screwdriver won't fully enter the head of a JIS screw, resulting in cam-out and damage to the screw. This diagram shows the differences in the screwdriver tip profiles:

View media item 84494
However, the situation regarding JIS screwdrivers is more complicated. Based on my reading, the JIS screwdriver standard has been largely abandoned, despite the fact that there are probably billions of JIS screws still in use (which are often marked with a small dimple between two of the arms of the crossed slots).

View media item 84493
It appears that many Japanese companies, including Vessel, now manufacture their screwdrivers to conform with DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 rather than the defunct JIS standard, and that Nepros has decided to not follow any standards and to make its screwdrivers according to its own internal specifications.

Believe it or not, it was really hard to find detailed information regarding the differences between the JIS and DIN/ISO screwdriver standards, but I finally ran across the following very helpful diagram at a Japanese motorcycle discussion site. (BTW, the Japanese characters in the table mean "minimum value".) It's clear how close the two standards are, which is why Japanese and European screwdrivers both seem to work fine with JIS (and also phillips) screws.

View media item 84492
Hope you find this information interesting.

Negen · Jun 30, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

Do you know how a single driver can conform to both standards? That part always confused me. My facom drivers also seem different than anything I have seen before.

Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app

tanukiboy · Jun 30, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

Negen said:
Do you know how a single driver can conform to both standards? That part always confused me. My facom drivers also seem different than anything I have seen before.

I believe that there are no technical differences between DIN 5260-PH and ISO 8763-1, and that a screwdriver that conforms with either of these standards will also conform with the other, which is why the two standards are often separated by a slash.

californiaHank · Jun 30, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

You're way overthinking this. JIS doesn't certify screwdrivers any more, so there's no such thing as a current JIS standard for screwdrivers. There are only JIS standards for screws. Manufacturers are free to make whatever screwdriver designs they want to suit different applications.

For example, the (obsolete) JIS B 4633 specified d=5mm for P1 screwdrivers. But Vessel makes several variants on this ranging from 4.5mm (like the German standard) to 5mm (like the old JIS standard) to 5.5mm (which matches neither standard). The biggest diameters are on hand impact screwdrivers which are designed to handle a lot of torque without deforming (twisting). Some of their newer (Megadora) series are skinny enough to meet the German standard. Most aren't. They all fit JIS screws fine.

I mainly work on clean, uncorroded fasteners on Japanese electronics equipment and it doesn't matter much which JIS P1 driver I use. My favourite JIS driver is an old 'traditional' wooden handle Vessel with a 5mm blade, which I use because I like its shape and feel. But, I'd reach for my heavy duty 'fat' Vessel if I was removing stuck/rusty JIS screws on a car or bike.

1950mercury · Jul 1, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

Vessel matador 930's are awesome.

tanukiboy · Jul 1, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

1950mercury said:
Vessel matador 930's are awesome.

Suspected autocorrect boo-boo "Megadora" -> "matador". Yes, I agree. My go-to screwdrivers are the Megadora 930s. They hit all my hot buttons: great fit in JIS screws, hex bolster for wrenching, comfortable grip, striking cap.

Professional Tool User · Jul 1, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

DIN 5260 has superseded JIS. This is why I tell those people who want to be able to undo JIS screws to go with easier to find options that meet the DIN 5260 spec like Wera instead of going through the hassle of importing Japanese screwdrivers.

M6erfan · Jul 1, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

Professional Tool User said:
DIN 5260 has superseded JIS. This is why I tell those people who want to be able to undo JIS screws to go with easier to find options that meet the DIN 5260 spec like Wera instead of going through the hassle of importing Japanese screwdrivers.

Like has been mentioned before there is no JIS PH tips made anymore, so what would you be importing? Anyway, you can get the Vessels from Amazon U.S. or JDV's U.S. website. Hassle?

Edit: I just noticed you're in Canada, maybe it's a hassle getting them there... :dunno:

tanukiboy · Jul 1, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

Professional Tool User said:
...instead of going through the hassle of importing Japanese screwdrivers.

Well, in the US at least, you can order Vessel screwdrivers directly from Amazon (many of them Amazon Prime, no less) at quite reasonable prices. A phillips (JIS) #2 Megadora 930 costs $13.35. The 900 series and the ball grips go for less than $10 each.

californiaHank · Jul 2, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

Professional Tool User said:
DIN 5260 has superseded JIS.

Total nonsense.

JIS is a Japanese standards body that sets standards for Japan.
DIN is a German standards body that sets standards for Germany.

The German agency doesn't write standards for Japan and the Japanese agency doesn't set standards for Germany.

tanukiboy · Jul 2, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

californiaHank said:
Total nonsense.

JIS is a Japanese standards body that sets standards for Japan.
DIN is a German standards body that sets standards for Germany.

The German agency doesn't write standards for Japan and the Japanese agency doesn't set standards for Germany.

Statement from Vessel:

"Q: Why VESSEL's screwdrivers are not labeled “JIS”?

As you might know, VESSEL is the oldest screwdriver manufacturer in Japan, and made a contribution to set a JIS standard. We do follow JIS standard for cross point screwdrivers. Because the technology to manufacture screwdrivers in Japan had already become above a certain level, JIS recognition system for screwdrivers became extinct in 2008. So there is no authorized JIS manufacturer now, and we therefore cannot print "JIS" mark on our screwdrivers."

From another tool manufacturer:

"Important: Vessel is making the 1/4" drive bits we carry to DIN Standard #5260. They are NOT true JIS per se. However, we have tested them extensively here and have determined that due to the tight corner radius on these bits (a key ingredient differentiating JIS from Phillips standards), they fit JIS fasteners that you will encounter perfectly."

6PTsocket · Jul 2, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

Wasn't there another cross blade, Reed and Prince? Are they gone, too?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

californiaHank · Jul 2, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

tanukiboy said:
Statement from Vessel:

"Q: Why VESSEL's screwdrivers are not labeled “JIS”?

As you might know, VESSEL is the oldest screwdriver manufacturer in Japan, and made a contribution to set a JIS standard. We do follow JIS standard for cross point screwdrivers. Because the technology to manufacture screwdrivers in Japan had already become above a certain level, JIS recognition system for screwdrivers became extinct in 2008. So there is no authorized JIS manufacturer now, and we therefore cannot print "JIS" mark on our screwdrivers."

From another tool manufacturer:

"Important: Vessel is making the 1/4" drive bits we carry to DIN Standard #5260. They are NOT true JIS per se. However, we have tested them extensively here and have determined that due to the tight corner radius on these bits (a key ingredient differentiating JIS from Phillips standards), they fit JIS fasteners that you will encounter perfectly."

Vessel is a big company. The English version of their standard products caltalog on their Japanese web site is 240 pages, including at least 30 pages of industrial screwdriver bits alone. They make special bits for every purpose. They make bits for Japanese style cross recess drivers to fit JIS screws and also make bits for similar styles you don't seee much in cars, like PoziDriv and SupaDriv. They also make custom bits to order, in any shape you want.

There's no reference to any DIN standard anywhere in the catalog, but I'd bet they'd supply you with a batch of bits that meet a DIN or any other standard if you're willing to pay for them.

The only other Japanese screwdriver manufacturer I know is Hozan. I couldn't find any reference to DIN 5260 in their web catalog either.
Hozan just calls their cross screwdrivers 'Phillips', but Hozan is a brand a lot of US motorcyle and bicycle shops use on JIS screws.

submariner · Jul 5, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

californiaHank said:
JIS is a Japanese standards body that sets standards for Japan.
DIN is a German standards body that sets standards for Germany.

The German agency doesn't write standards for Japan and the Japanese agency doesn't set standards for Germany.

You're right but perhaps Japan has simply abandoned JIS and followed Germany's DIN standards like the rest of the world (apart fm North America)?

rlitman · Jul 5, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

submariner said:
You're right but perhaps Japan has simply abandoned JIS and followed Germany's DIN standards like the rest of the world (apart fm North America)?

Not quite. JIS has moved out of the tool standard market, and the DIN (German) standard has been absorbed into the ISO (International) standard.

Jollyroger · Sep 30, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but this is one of the few places I could find that discusses the JIS topic...

I have a set of screws, found in quantity on an old (around 2000) Japanese computer I am trying to restore, which I have failed to identify.

I measured it and it seems to be a JIS Bind Head M3x6mm screw, but as you can see it has TWO "dots" on its head, rather than the typical one of JIS screws.

Any thoughts?

Any ideas where I could source them?

Thanks!

Professional Tool User · Oct 1, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

Yup. Japan has moved on from its own industrial standards. There may be lots of old JIS screws in older applications, but even Vessel doesn't even make screwdrivers to JIS specs anymore. I don't even get why people are insisting on buying Japanese screwdrivers when they aren't even made to JIS specs anymore when there are other DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 compliant options out there.

Negen · Oct 12, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

Professional Tool User said:
Yup. Japan has moved on from its own industrial standards. There may be lots of old JIS screws in older applications, but even Vessel doesn't even make screwdrivers to JIS specs anymore. I don't even get why people are insisting on buying Japanese screwdrivers when they aren't even made to JIS specs anymore when there are other DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 compliant options out there.

They buy the Japanese made drivers because the Japanese make better tools than most any other manufacture. It is hard to beat a vessel driver.

Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app

ptgarcia · Oct 12, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

Professional Tool User said:
Yup. Japan has moved on from its own industrial standards. There may be lots of old JIS screws in older applications, but even Vessel doesn't even make screwdrivers to JIS specs anymore. I don't even get why people are insisting on buying Japanese screwdrivers when they aren't even made to JIS specs anymore when there are other DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 compliant options out there.

Maybe because they are superb drivers?

Roundhouse · Oct 12, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

Mike Rowe has a great “the way I heard it” podcast about the Phillips screw

Two Speed · Oct 13, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

A while back I was looking for JIS compliant screwdrivers and getting nowhere. I probably stumbled on the same page the OP posted about finding the information about JIS being dead and DIN being the new standard. That made finding screw drivers on amazon a lot easier. Still eneded up with a set of vessel drivers made to DIN standards in the end, but they fit nice and tight in a jis screw.
Bottom line as far as I'm concerned, if you have JIS screws and need new drivers, rest easy knowing that the "phillips" DIN standard drivers you are getting from the usual suspects (ie Vessel) are going to work just fine in your JIS screw as they are not your classic american phillips design.

rlitman · Oct 14, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

Two Speed said:
A while back I was looking for JIS compliant screwdrivers and getting nowhere. I probably stumbled on the same page the OP posted about finding the information about JIS being dead and DIN being the new standard. That made finding screw drivers on amazon a lot easier. Still eneded up with a set of vessel drivers made to DIN standards in the end, but they fit nice and tight in a jis screw.
Bottom line as far as I'm concerned, if you have JIS screws and need new drivers, rest easy knowing that the "phillips" DIN standard drivers you are getting from the usual suspects (ie Vessel) are going to work just fine in your JIS screw as they are not your classic american phillips design.

Keep in mind that DIN is just an international standards agency. DIN-5260-PH describes a screwdriver that is compatible with JIS screws, BUT there are other DIN "phillips" screwdriver patterns that match the american Phillips designs. So just seeing DIN is not enough.

Eric29 · Oct 14, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

I believe that the Honda rotor screws that people struggle to take out are JIS. I think that’s one of the reasons why even impact drivers with Phillips bits don’t work.

alwaysFlOoReD · Oct 14, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

Jollyroger said:
Sorry to resurrect this thread, but this is one of the few places I could find that discusses the JIS topic...

I have a set of screws, found in quantity on an old (around 2000) Japanese computer I am trying to restore, which I have failed to identify.

I measured it and it seems to be a JIS Bind Head M3x6mm screw, but as you can see it has TWO "dots" on its head, rather than the typical one of JIS screws.

Any thoughts?

Any ideas where I could source them?

Thanks!

You might be better off starting a new thread for your question with a link back to this one.

Lassen Forge · Oct 14, 2018

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

Eric29 said:
I believe that the Honda rotor screws that people struggle to take out are JIS. I think that’s one of the reasons why even impact drivers with Phillips bits don’t work.

They are. They work somewhat with impact drivers, but ideally if you can find an old one with the JIS-spec bit you are miles ahead.

You think the rotors are bad, try almost any Japanese motorcycle case or cover screw from the 70's-80's. There was a reason that parts companies offered allen conversions for these things... they were no joy to begin with, and once Joe Shadetree realized he was in over his head with most screws cammed out, they'd drop them on our lap.

I had a set of JIS impact driver sockets , and sometimes those screws were even too far gone for those. Then it was either a *very* ginger application of the chisel and hammer (and hope you didn't screw up the aluminum) or dremel the head off (same hope there). If they were never molested, there was a good chance they'd come out. Otherwise... we made some good money in the day from those...

pizza · Nov 3, 2020

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

tanukiboy said:
...

It appears that many Japanese companies, including Vessel, now manufacture their screwdrivers to conform with DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 rather than the defunct JIS standard

...

View media item 84492

sorry to resurrect, but is it really ISO 8763-1? if i understand correctly, this is a typo and is supposed to be ISO 8764-1. even that figure in the OP says ISO 8764-1.

if i'm right, that's kind of hilarious because this thread is likely the source of a widely reproduced error. i've made the mistake myself of writing 8763 as a result.

Hytekrednek · Nov 4, 2020

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

what is the difference in Reed prince drivers and Phillips/jis? I have RP bits and drivers but have not needed them yet. Where/when are they used?

Negen · Nov 4, 2020

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

http://progress-is-fine.blogspot.com/2012/11/vanished-tool-makes-reed-princefrearson.html?m=1

Hytekrednek said:
what is the difference in Reed prince drivers and Phillips/jis? I have RP bits and drivers but have not needed them yet. Where/when are they used?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using The Garage Journal mobile app

rlitman · Nov 4, 2020

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

Hytekrednek said:
what is the difference in Reed prince drivers and Phillips/jis? I have RP bits and drivers but have not needed them yet. Where/when are they used?

Many years ago, I used to see bronze screws with Reed & Prince heads used on boats. I recall seeing some stainless screws in that drive as well, before Robertson took over.

The R&P driver is interesting, because the biggest driver will still engage the smallest screws, and the smallest driver will fit into the largest screws. Basically, as the screw size increases, the driver pocket just grows in depth and the lines continue out at the same angle.

dnschmidt · Nov 4, 2020

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

When I was selling TOPTUL I did a bang up business selling TOPTUL's DIN 5260 "JIS" screwdriver to the Honda bike crowd. After ******* up their carburetors, and every other part on their motorcycles with Craftsman Phillips screwdrivers, they'd just about blow me to sell them the DIN 5260 to bail them out which it normally did. The best tool for this job is the Vessel Impacta. Vessel should use this motto to increase their sales of this wonderful tool: "Has saved a million Jap motorcycles and still counting."

ChevyEFI · Nov 4, 2020

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

tanukiboy said:
Statement from Vessel:

"Important: Vessel is making the 1/4" drive bits we carry to DIN Standard #5260. They are NOT true JIS per se. However, we have tested them extensively here and have determined that due to the tight corner radius on these bits (a key ingredient differentiating JIS from Phillips standards), they fit JIS fasteners that you will encounter perfectly."

Thanks. I was just looking at https://www.vessel.co.jp/english/product/bit/bit

Qualitytools · Nov 5, 2020

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

All this discussion made me look in my garage at my Craftsmen Impacta made by Vessel, it has an identical handle to the Megadora lineup. But I am not sure what standard those are designed for JIS or DIN

dnschmidt · Nov 5, 2020

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

It doesn't matter. Both work fine. If you stick it in the screw and there is zero slop (which I have found to be the key difference between JIS/DIN 5280 and conventional Phillips on Japanese screws it's a winner. JIS screws (and even Phillips screws) stick on the end of a JIS/DIM 5280 sort of the way Robertson square drive screws do on a Robertson screwdriver (the ones that have the hardened tip swaged into the end of the shaft.)

rlitman · Nov 5, 2020

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

Qualitytools said:
All this discussion made me look in my garage at my Craftsmen Impacta made by Vessel, it has an identical handle to the Megadora lineup. But I am not sure what standard those are designed for JIS or DIN

I think you're missing the point. DIN is just piece of paper with a more recent copyright date on it than on the JIS document. The physical object they describe (your screwdriver) is the same either way.

X1 Mike · Nov 5, 2020

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

Stupid Garage Journal!!!

I've used a JIS #2 bit on my ratcheting screwdriver forever and been just fine. In the past week I added a Vessel ratcheting ball grip #2 and an Impacta #2 driver. I have a bunch of randoms in my race tool box that I think I may have to replace with all Vessel drivers and never touch a Japanese bike with anything but those.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019C821PC/?tag=atomicindus08-20

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003BI8HHQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

X1 Mike · Nov 5, 2020

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

I have control of it, I can stop anytime.

NO I CAN"T!!!!!!!

Just ordered this one. :dunno:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E55DNGY/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Damn Amazon, look at my last order and of course they have to throw a suggestion out there.

pizza · Nov 5, 2020

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

while you're at it, might as well hit it one more time and get a vessel megadora 900 (regular) or 930 (heavy duty w/ striking cap) series PH2 which feature the jawsfit grooves.

they're rad.

ajchien · Nov 5, 2020

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

X1 Mike said:
I have control of it, I can stop anytime.

NO I CAN"T!!!!!!!

Just ordered this one.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E55DNGY/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Damn Amazon, look at my last order and of course they have to throw a suggestion out there.

Ok, that +1 /+3 combo JIS tip is something completely new to me. Very interesting.

rlitman · Nov 5, 2020

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

ajchien said:
Ok, that +1 /+3 combo JIS tip is something completely new to me. Very interesting.

Sears was selling that on one side of a Ball Driver (Craftsman branded, Vessel made). It's pretty nifty.

Qualitytools · Nov 5, 2020

Re: Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdriv

rlitman said:
Sears was selling that on one side of a Ball Driver (Craftsman branded, Vessel made). It's pretty nifty.

Yes I have a couple of those Craftsman Vessel ones as well.

Phillips vs. JIS (called "plus" in Japanese) vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 Screwdrivers

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

New member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Banned

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member