How to Deal With This Pedestal?

I'm about ready to hook my new detached shop to the electrical service. I'm trying to figure out the best way to proceed.

I've got two questions:

• How to anchor the new breaker
• How to connect the new neutral

The power company will be upgrading my service from 200A to 400A. The house currently has 200A service.

I've found a 200A breaker that should be and looks to be an exact match for the existing 200A breaker and there is space for the new breaker on the busbars for the new breaker. I just want to add the new breaker to the pedestal and connect the wires!

The problem is that there is a screw in the center of the new breaker (just like on the old breaker) but there is no hole for it to go into. You can see the corresponding screw hole in the existing breaker at the left of the picture. I need a hole above the bare copper ground and below the fluorescent sticker.

There is a tapped hole that looks to be the right size but it is too far to the left. If the box weren't hot with the power company's feed behind the panel, I'd just drill and tap an appropriate hole. If I'm sure that's a good approach, I can wait until the power company kills the power to pull new wire and swap transformers, then drill and tap.

The second issue is connecting the new neutral wire. There isn't space for a double lug where the current neutral connects, so I'm thinking of using a split bolt. I.e. strip the insulation on the old neutral, then use a split bolt to connect the new neutral to the old neutral. This is something else that I'd wait for the power company to drop power for. Is there a better solution?

Sorry about the size of this picture but it's not immediately obvious to me how to shrink it. So, if you reply to this, please take pity on those folks with slow data connections and strip the picture from your reply.

That meter main is ancient.

You need to replace it. With something from this century. Then ALL your problems will be solved.

I literally can't count how many times I've found those 200 amp mains burned right where they stab on to that aluminum buss. Which means the breaker is toast, the bus is toast, and the meter main gets replaced.

You are better off to replace it now.

That pedestal is either a Zinsco/Sylvania, or Unicorn, either way they are a POS, that should be replaced, there only looks like there is is only enough space for a 100-125A Zinsco breaker & a 100A Zinsco replacement breaker (UBI) is around $200. That kind of money would be better spent towards a upgrade of the equipment.

The comments made in post #2 I agree with.

Thanks for the replies, even if I don't like the news. I'll get to work on replacing the post and meter main.

Can you post a pic of the panel label?

Are you sure it can have 2x 200a breakers?

I agree with above comments about replacement.

wyliesdiesels said:

Can you post a pic of the panel label?

Are you sure it can have 2x 200a breakers?

I agree with above comments about replacement.

Click to expand...

There's no label or other identifying marking on the panel other than the UL number. At least that I can find. I only noticed the UL number after I started this thread. I forget how I found the replacement breaker but it might have been something on the old breaker. I tracked it down several weeks ago and those memories are long gone. The product line that the panel belongs to has been sold/merged several times.

I've returned the new breaker and have decided to replace the meter main, so it's a moot point now.

I think I'm 0 for 3 for getting quotes from electricians on my shop. Today I called 3 electricians for quotes. The first guy didn't show. Hopefully, between the other 2, I'll get at least 1 quote and it won't be too exorbitant.

I went thru the Schneider Electric choose-a-product and got a meter main that lists for $4K. I found it online for only $3,500. I must have done something wrong

Post a photo of the pedestal, although pretty sure it's Zinsco/Sylvania, they and Unicorn were the only ones who had that style breaker, Unicorn was later bought by Milbank.

Here are some more pictures. The breaker is labeled GTE/Sylvania. It's probably from 1985.

Yeah those are junk.

And you shouldnt have to drill a panel or modify it so a breaker can fit in it. It would be a listing violation if you did this.

I would replace that pedestal with a quality brand meter main.

wyliesdiesels said:

Yeah those are junk.

And you shouldnt have to drill a panel or modify it so a breaker can fit in it. It would be a listing violation if you did this.

I would replace that pedestal with a quality brand meter main.

Click to expand...

What would you recommend for a meter main? I'm pretty much doing the same work over here.

Panel looks like a Unicorn, but what is surprising it there is not a "Pick a Amp" Unicorn breaker, they had a rating plug that was replaced depending on the site requirements, trailer parks liked them because of how easy it was to go from 100A to 200A.

Zinsco/Sylvania pedestals doors slide up, not hinged like the OP's.


To the OP, are you wanting a 400A service or share 200A with the house? The latter one could only be done if load calc's support it.


If a separate meter was desired.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K245PN6/?tag=atomicindus08-20


400A panel

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NLMB34G/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Don't care for SQ D Homeline or Eaton BR panels but I call the BR line "Zinsco II".

Norcal said:

To the OP, are you wanting a 400A service or share 200A with the house? The latter one could only be done if load calc's support it.

Click to expand...

I'm upgrading to 400A service. I want to fork two 200A services at the meter, so there will be the existing 200A service entrance (& ground rod) at the house with a new 200A service entrance (& ground rod) at the new shop. There are separate, 200A disconnects on both the outside of the house and the outside of the shop. That's a Northern Nevada code requirement. Both structures have a subpanel inside with all of the branch-circuit circuit-breakers.

On the picture of the pedestal, the 2 inch conduit that you see runs to the house. You can't see where I drilled a hole in the cement pad for the conduit to the shop.

I haven't done a load calc but the major electric draws in the house are a 6 ton A/C, clothes dryer, double oven and a 7.5 KW sauna. All the other loads in the house are lighting and small appliances. When I remodeled the house, I put in a gas line for the dryer, so that will go to natural gas someday - I really don't like electric dryers. The sauna and the A/C are unlikely to be used at the same time. The outside disconnect for the house is actually a 150 A breaker. Why there's a 200 A breaker at the meter and a 150 A breaker at the house, I don't know. I haven't checked the wire size in the house but we haven't had any issues with it, so I'm letting sleeping dogs lie.

The biggest machine that I currently have for the shop is a 5 HP 3 phase planer. I've got a shop built 7.5 HP phase converter for it but the phase converter only draws about 200 real watts when it's running (start up is a different story but that's over in less than a second).

Look at 2nd photo in the #8 post.....particularly at the bus stab's contact with the bus bar. (There's barely any at all.) Did you pull it out part of the way?
On a second look it looks like it's designed that way

alfredeneuman said:

Look at 2nd photo in the #8 post.....particularly at the bus stab's contact with the bus bar. (There's barely any at all.) Did you pull it out part of the way?
On a second look it looks like it's designed that way

Click to expand...

Looks like the plastic on the top area is not seated all the way onto the bus bar.

alfredeneuman said:

Look at 2nd photo in the #8 post.....particularly at the bus stab's contact with the bus bar. (There's barely any at all.) Did you pull it out part of the way?
On a second look it looks like it's designed that way

Click to expand...

I haven't touched it except to pull the front panel off. The screw looks like it's in place but I haven't checked to see if it's tight. I'll push on it a little to see if it's loose.

Rusty Bolt said:

I'm upgrading to 400A service. I want to fork two 200A services at the meter, so there will be the existing 200A service entrance (& ground rod) at the house with a new 200A service entrance (& ground rod) at the new shop. There are separate, 200A disconnects on both the outside of the house and the outside of the shop. That's a Northern Nevada code requirement. Both structures have a subpanel inside with all of the branch-circuit circuit-breakers.

On the picture of the pedestal, the 2 inch conduit that you see runs to the house. You can't see where I drilled a hole in the cement pad for the conduit to the shop.

I haven't done a load calc but the major electric draws in the house are a 6 ton A/C, clothes dryer, double oven and a 7.5 KW sauna. All the other loads in the house are lighting and small appliances. When I remodeled the house, I put in a gas line for the dryer, so that will go to natural gas someday - I really don't like electric dryers. The sauna and the A/C are unlikely to be used at the same time. The outside disconnect for the house is actually a 150 A breaker. Why there's a 200 A breaker at the meter and a 150 A breaker at the house, I don't know. I haven't checked the wire size in the house but we haven't had any issues with it, so I'm letting sleeping dogs lie.

The biggest machine that I currently have for the shop is a 5 HP 3 phase planer. I've got a shop built 7.5 HP phase converter for it but the phase converter only draws about 200 real watts when it's running (start up is a different story but that's over in less than a second).

Click to expand...

With those loads I would guess it would all run off a 200A service. No reason you can't have the 150A in the house and a 200A in the shop all fed off the same 200A meter main.

I have that same main box at my place and it has been a headache since my dad had the place built in 1981. The bus bars corrode and they are a pain in the ***. BUT I am hooking electricity to my shop and that's all I have so I'll make the best of it. Good luck with your upgrade and thanks for everybody's input.