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What's wrong with my floor coating?

AZ Dean

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Joined
Jun 6, 2018
Messages
60
Location
Arizona
Hello all - first post here. :thumbup: I'll introduce myself and my garage in another post, but I have a somewhat urgent question.

To make a long story short, I hired a highly rated local vendor (name currently withheld until this situation is resolved) to apply a multistage coating with flecks and polyaspartic top coat (very similar in description to what Armorpoxy recently posted).

My garage is brand new, nothing has ever been on the concrete and the slab is probably three months old at time of installation. I'm in Arizona, so moisture and temperature shouldn't be an issue. Vendor has used this product for years with no issues.

The floor came out looking GREAT and I was very happy with it. I was told to wait at least 24 hours before I could move in. I waited 48 hours. After 48 hours, I moved in a lot of stuff, nothing out of the ordinary. Due to timing I didn't move my three motorcycles in for almost a week.

So here's the problem. At some point a week or so later I was moving things around and noticed that my motorcycle kickstands had damaged the coating, just from the weight of the bike (no dragging or scraping - just sitting in one position). It looked like the topcoat and flakes had been pushed aside by the sideways force of the stand.

But I looked further and I could see that my lightweight fat tired mountain bike tire tread had done the same thing! Also I found where one of my motorcycle tires, which was dead cold when parked had pushed the top coat aside.

While investigating, I found that with hard, steady pressure, I could press my thumbnail into the undamaged topcoat and peel it back.

I contacted the vendor, who indicated he had not seen that kind of damage before, and he offered to scuff the existing topcoat and apply a fresh coat, on the assumption that the first coat was perhaps too thin.

The vendor came out and applied the new top coat roughly four weeks after the initial application. It looks fabulous. He was 100% confident that I could put my motorcycles back on it after 24 hours. I waited close to 72 hours. I decided to put something under the sidestand to protect the new coating just in case and to help it looks great for many years. I chose an extra vinyl floor tile, like you can buy at the big box store.

Later the same day, I went out to check on things and as you can see in the attached pics (see the one with glossier finish), the weight of the sidestand through the vinyl tile and pushed the top coat aside again. :headscrat

My vendor is at a loss as to why this is happening. He has agreed to fix it whatever is necessary, but I don't want to put him (and me) through completely recoating the floor if it isn't going to make any difference. I looked at the spec sheet for the material he is using (NPI NP-344) and it was tested to a hardness rating on the Shore scale of 80D, which I have seen is comparable to a hardhat or a computer case. The vendor agrees that the coating should be able to handle the sidestand just sitting there.

So I am hoping the coating pros here can help me figure out what's wrong. Do I have unreasonable expectations? Is it the top coat? Is the topcoat not adhering properly to the materials below it?
 

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JoeMcGov

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Birmingham, Alabama
You need to get the coating materials manufacturer's written installation instructions and check if every single step and requirement noted by the manufacturer has been properly followed.
 

kd3pc

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Northern Neck
You need to get the coating materials manufacturer's written installation instructions and check if every single step and requirement noted by the manufacturer has been properly followed.

especially the "prep" part....and time between coats.
 

LegacyIndustrial

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deerfield, IL
It is very easy for your installer to have the batch numbers checked with the mfg.

If there is a batch issue the mfg will typically help get the situation resolved.

However, if this is a site related issue adding more coating on top of unresolved coating will not make a problem go away, as we see here.

Stay tight with your installer , I am sure he wants to resolve this.


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AZ Dean

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Jun 6, 2018
Messages
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Location
Arizona
Thanks Joe and kd3pc (ham call?)

The vendor offers a lifetime warranty. They diamond grind the slab before coating. With a lifetime warranty I would think it would behoove them to get it right the first time. I don't know how I retroactively ensure they followed the correct steps, but I suppose if I asked them to recoat it, I could watch the entire process to ensure they do. But..I'm not entirely sure I am not experiencing a simple failure of the product to do what I am asking of it. That's part of my question. Is this product simply not up to this task?
 
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AZ Dean

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60
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Arizona
@LegacyIndustrial - do you think this coating should be able to handle the weight of a motorcycle sidestand without damage? I am not asking it to withstand dragging or scraping a heavy metal object. I just want it to be able to take me parking my bike there.
 

LegacyIndustrial

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Fact: motorcycle kickstands will scratch coatings. Need to place a pad under it. Sorry, that’s too much weight in one spot not to make a mark.

That said... what I see here looks like either the receiver coat or the first clear coat did not cure properly.

Adding the 2nd coat of clear will not miraculously fix what is already not right.

My opinion won’t fix the problem. Empower your installer to remedy the issue, I am sure he wants you happy.
Keep good communication and encourage him, no threats or ultimatums.

Good luck!


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Armorpoxy

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NJ
Hi, sorry you are having issues.

Our 2 cents is that maybe this is not a topcoat problem, but an epoxy problem where the epoxy is not hardened and it's allowing the much thinner topcoat to be moved around since it's not supported. Adding more topcoat only aggravates this problem.

If you press a fingernail into it is it pressing and deforming the topcoat AND epoxy? If so, the floor will have to be removed as nothing will cure it now so it could be a bad batch or inadequate mixing, or someone wasn't paying attention and mixed part A from topcoat or primer with Part B of epoxy. We have seen this happen and then the floor never cures sadly.

Keep us posted as to what you find out and how it was rectified.
 

SALIV8

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Dec 11, 2008
Messages
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Location
chicago and s/w michigan
Fact: motorcycle kickstands will scratch coatings. Need to place a pad under it. Sorry, that’s too much weight in one spot not to make a mark.

That said... what I see here looks like either the receiver coat or the first clear coat did not cure properly.

Adding the 2nd coat of clear will not miraculously fix what is already not right.

My opinion won’t fix the problem. Empower your installer to remedy the issue, I am sure he wants you happy.
Keep good communication and encourage him, no threats or ultimatums.

Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

A motorcycles kickstand will scratch an epoxy coating from just the weight?

A motorcycle weighs what, 400lbs? And the kickstand is only handling a leaning weight while the tires handle the majority.

Had no idea it scratches that easily. Thanks for the info.
 

LegacyIndustrial

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A motorcycles kickstand will scratch an epoxy coating from just the weight?

A motorcycle weighs what, 400lbs? And the kickstand is only handling a leaning weight while the tires handle the majority.

Had no idea it scratches that easily. Thanks for the info.



You ride. You know it doesn’t land cleanly in one spot when you lean it over, it slides a few inches on the steel.
This is what can scratch it, not necessarily the weight.


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AZ Dean

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Arizona
Hi, sorry you are having issues.

Our 2 cents is that maybe this is not a topcoat problem, but an epoxy problem where the epoxy is not hardened and it's allowing the much thinner topcoat to be moved around since it's not supported. Adding more topcoat only aggravates this problem.

That's what I am thinking, but my vendor is not convinced. :(

If you press a fingernail into it is it pressing and deforming the topcoat AND epoxy? If so, the floor will have to be removed as nothing will cure it now so it could be a bad batch or inadequate mixing, or someone wasn't paying attention and mixed part A from topcoat or primer with Part B of epoxy. We have seen this happen and then the floor never cures sadly.

Keep us posted as to what you find out and how it was rectified.

I think so, but hard to say. I'm going to try to post a video and picture below, let me know what you think.


You ride. You know it doesn’t land cleanly in one spot when you lean it over, it slides a few inches on the steel.
This is what can scratch it, not necessarily the weight.
Right, and I could definitely see a scratch happening, but this is completely pushing the top coat aside.

Quick update - I asked my vendor to completely redo one section of the slab to see if the problem could be rectified. I explained my findings with regard to tested hardness, etc. He declined saying that there was no evidence of further issues after he had repaired the damage which was done after AFTER the second top coat was applied (see photos in top post).

Since my garage is not really usable while I am trying to get this resolved, I relented and decided to just live with it.

But while moving my 230lb dirtbike around, I briefly rested it gently on its kickstand. And by briefly I mean less than a minute. Coming back to it I see that the kickstand broke through the topcoat entirely and created a gouge clear to the paint.

Ok, so now I REALLY want him to fix this, as I am convinced it isnt right. So I got some video of my earlier claim that I can break the topcoat with fingernail and about 20 seconds of moderate pressure.

Here's a video and a picture showing that I go through the entire topcoat with my fingernail and start tearing the flakes underneath.

Video:
 

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Shea

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Yeah, after seeing the video, it's fairly evident that the clear did not cure properly. A typical polyaspartic coating shouldn't do that even after a few short hours or so.
 
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AZ Dean

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Jun 6, 2018
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Arizona
Thank you all for your help on this. I am hopeful the vendor will address the issue properly.
 

62veedub

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Oct 16, 2012
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AZ
I know it's only been a couple of days since your last post, but any update yet?
 
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AZ Dean

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Jun 6, 2018
Messages
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Location
Arizona
Vendor does not think there's a problem, so he is not going to fix it. He's willing to make repairs where the floor 'fails,' but he sees the damage caused by my kickstand as normal.
 

raco232

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Jan 2, 2018
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South Memphis, TN
If that is normal, I don’t want any part of an epoxy floor coating! There goes my dreams I had for garage and shop. If you can, you might be a good citizen and show his future customers what not normal is make sure they don’t park motorcycles on it.

Your vendor sounds like a real ****!

Will he fix where your fingernails damages it or is that considered normal? Hope you don’t have a fridge or a roll around toolbox!
 
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Armorpoxy

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This is not a normal situation. Epoxy has been used millions of times in car dealers, military facilities, etc. if it was soft it wouldn’t perform.

Not sure why the vendor not standing behind it.


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raco232

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South Memphis, TN
If your vendor has the same coating at his shop or garage, ask him to demonstrate the floor by parking your motorcycle on it and show some proof!
 

Augus7us

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Central Ohio
In my eyes the only fix for this is to start over. You can't remove the clear without screwing up the epoxy and flake.

I hate to say it but you're probably going to have to take this guy to court, or at least get the ball rolling to get him to come to the table. I think your video is all the evidence you need. Any expert is going to say that is not right. Fairly easy and cheap to file a small claims case.

Every piece of sand, dropped tool, rolling cabinet, **** on your shoes and so on is going to be embedded in that floor after some use. In a years time as it is I bet it will look like garbage. Go after this guy now while you can. I don't know how much it cost you but around here it can be as high as 6$/ft2 professionally installed and that is a lot of scratch for a sub par floor system.
 
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