Dream Garage Build? Size and Cost for 2 Cars + Work Space

bulletpruf · Nov 15, 2018

Fellas -

Wife and I looked at a house today in San Antonio that we're interested in. It's in a nice subdivision (houses average $400k or so) and would be our "forever house" (I'm getting ready to retire from the military). It has a medium sized two car garage, which isn't going to cut it. However, the lot is quite large (3/4 acre), so there's room for another two car garage in the driveway or in the back yard. I think the HOA would allow me to build a free-standing extra garage if it matches the house color scheme and architecture.

The garage would need to be able to store two cars (60's two door musclecars) and have sufficient room for working on both, as well as a decent amount of room to for all of my stuff. I have the usual (for a GJ member, anyway) assortment of stuff, including an 80 gallon compressor, large tool cabinets, a few dozen chainsaws, large blast cabinet (the HF one), parts washer, press, engine stand, work bench, vises, grinders, MIG, oxyacetylene setup, etc.

My initial thoughts are that the garage should be at least 24' wide inside. On one side, I would want a lift (possibly keeping a car on the lift and another under it) and on the other side, I would want a loft for storage.

As for depth, I'm thinking 30' or so.

I also would want A/C and heat, plumbing (at least a sink; maybe a urinal, too).

It would have to have stucco exterior and terracotta tile roof to match the house.

Questions -

Can someone give me a ballpark on cost to build something like this? Give or take 20%.

What about size -- does 24' x 30' seem about right? I could possibly enlarge if I needed to down the road.

Thanks!

Scott

koenbro · Nov 15, 2018

A few dozen chain saws?!

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bulletpruf · Nov 15, 2018

koenbro said:
A few dozen chain saws?!

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Actually, I have about 100 vintage saws, but I'm selling most of my non-Stihl saws. Should have about 2 dozen when the fire sale is done.

bdbecker · Nov 15, 2018

If you're thinking of 30', might as well round up to the nearest increment of 8 and go with a 24x32. Really a 24x36 would be pretty sweet - two bays for parking cars and a third for tinkering.

Showkey · Nov 15, 2018

Guess the first question to ask ......does the city and subdivision allow outbuilding ......if yes do they limit the size sqft and height.

Build to match the house with HVAC........SWAG........$100-125 sgft

bulletpruf · Nov 15, 2018

Showkey said:
Guess the first question to ask ......does the city and subdivision allow outbuilding ......if yes do they limit the size sqft and height.

Build to match the house with HVAC........SWAG........$100-125 sgft

Real estate agent is checking on this tonight with the HOA.

bulletpruf · Nov 15, 2018

Showkey said:
Guess the first question to ask ......does the city and subdivision allow outbuilding ......if yes do they limit the size sqft and height.

Build to match the house with HVAC........SWAG........$100-125 sgft

Ok, so 24 x 32 = 768 square feet. So, around $80k? Ouch! I'll need something more affordable than that.

finn · Nov 15, 2018

A lift takes a lot of space, as does the cabinet and compressor. 28 or 30’ width would be preferred.

$100k is my guess in a metro area in Texas, in an HOA neighborhood. An uninsulated tin building in a rural area would still be $50k, unless it’s a shack.

It’s not 1999 anymore.

cstmg8 · Nov 15, 2018

Is this just in Texas? My buddy just had the Amish build him a 28x40, fully sheeted sides and roof, metal roof, for $12k. Had slab poured for $3k. Put up vinyl to match the house himself. 16' overhead, 48" roll up, man door, 2 windows.
Under $20k

finn said:
A lift takes a lot of space, as does the cabinet and compressor. 28 or 30’ width would be preferred.

$100k is my guess in a metro area in Texas, in an HOA neighborhood. An uninsulated tin building in a rural area would still be $50k, unless it’s a shack.

It’s not 1999 anymore.

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Augus7us · Nov 15, 2018

I think you're going to want more space out of the gate. I know its a bit cliche on here to say that, but I'm dealing with it in my new 30x40. I thought that would be more than enough when I bought this place a year ago.

You have a good bit of tools plus you want two cars in there with room to at minimum walk around them. That means all your tools, benches, bathroom and working space will have to be contained in that last open bit of space. You will be cramped fast my friend. At least based on my experience!

Also, I would definitely understand the HOA restrictions. To me a dream house isn't a dream house if you can't build your dream shop also

For sizing try this tool. Its pretty easy to use and has a lot of common tools nad stuff to place to give you an idea of how much space you will (or will not) have.

https://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner

regguy1 · Nov 15, 2018

I have a 26 by 30 26 foot deep, if you could go a couple feet more in-depth I think you wouldn't regret it here's some videos and photos of it https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140674

kd3pc · Nov 15, 2018

I am with Augus7, you are almost out of space, before you even build. The lift can be tight in a 24' length, especially if it has long ramps or ramps do not easily remove. Then centering the lift on the door will leave a possible wasted or small space to the wall.

I would do like BillK suggested in another post, get some graph paper and cut things to scale and place them, move them around and get an idea of where you will have pinch points, wasted space or...

Voi · Nov 15, 2018

My garage is probably about the equivalent of 26x40. Built into a steep hill on thick foundation walls so it's around 38' x 24.5' on the interior.

I think even with two cars over/under on a lift it would be too small. Currently we have two somewhat large daily drivers (Sequoia and Tundra) plus a short wheel base side by side with a plow attached. There is not a lot of room for me to work on projects.

Keep looking into what you can build and maybe also start talking prices with some local contractors. Costs to build can be very regional. I'd be very tentative about making an offer if you already own two classic cars.

Dick in Wisconsin · Nov 15, 2018

Not wide enough if you're going to have a lift and/or you want to work on a car.

I am limited to 1000sf in our township would have liked 1,200sf. I went 42'x23'9" (yes, cut it that close).

You're probably going to want to put a workbench along one or both sides of the cars along the outside wall. That gets you to 28 to 30 as others have suggested.

If you have a 24' wide garage, park two full size 1960's cars in their respective places, have no workbench along the sides of the garage, its very possible you will have just enough space to get a floor jack under the cars and work on them. I would lay this all out first on graph paper!!!!!!

I went with pex in the floor and a NG condensing boiler to heat the floor. Great move. Very, very, very happy. A little pricey, but I like it very much. I found two large 240volt, in wall A/C units at a Sears that was closing, that's my A/C. Works good for me in Wisconsin. You might need more in Texas.

I did 6" walls and cathedral celling above where the larger door is. All kinds of things I would do different, but that's for another thread or post.

Don't rely on the real estate agent to get the word on the HOA. Get a copy of the CCRs, read them and have your attorney read them. Talk to the municipality regarding detached buildings (outbuildings). Get a copy of the zoning ordinance that allows you to do what you want to do, if you don't understand it, hire an attorney.

We naively bought in our township thinking we could build just about anything; I've previously held real estate licenses in two states and spent 35 years in the mortage biz. But the max was 600sf. Wouldn't give me a variance. Had to work with town board to increase from 600sf to 1000sf. As part of this process I found out that neighboring townships and villages were ALL MORE than my township … some as large as 2500sf for a 1 acre parcel like we have. Bought in wrong township!

I built in 2014 and finished in 2015. I'm into for about (gulp) $100/sf. Do the math for your deal.

PS: Make sure you can park your future motorhome next to the shop and put in 50amp electric for it, water, and sewer dump station.

finn · Nov 15, 2018

cstmg8 said:
Is this just in Texas? My buddy just had the Amish build him a 28x40, fully sheeted sides and roof, metal roof, for $12k. Had slab poured for $3k. Put up vinyl to match the house himself. 16' overhead, 48" roll up, man door, 2 windows.
Under $20k

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Vinyl siding and a tin roof doesn’t meet his stated requirements, Does your Amish building include the electric, climate control, water and sewer as described?

For reference, a bare bones 24’x40’x16’ pole building was quoted at ~24k by three builders here in rural Michigan last year, less permits, site work, concrete, electric, no water or septic connection, or hvac. In other words, a semi finished storage building shell, not a HOA ready turn key shop. Add in a major metropolitan area complication and the costs shoot skyward.

I would support the $100-$125/sf estimate given by another poster.

Donzi camino · Nov 15, 2018

I just built a 22x35 with a loft on top. basically it has an opening on I side of ceiling of 12 x20 for a lift. It has a mini split ac and heat, hardi exterior, insulation , sheetrock and a full bath. The cost was about 50 k and I did some myself. There is plenty room if you put one car on top of the other. I have a wall of cabinets on one side and can fit 2 cars side by side ,but its real tight. With a lift theirs plenty of room to work.

bulletpruf · Nov 16, 2018

Thanks for all of the details! I like the idea of going a bit wider, but I can't handle $100k. I'll see about getting a few estimates. There's also the option of adding on to the garage; right now it's a moderately sized two car garage; if I could double the size, that would work, too.

Good points on the HOA and zoning. I need to nail this down before I go much further.

Thanks for all the input!

Scott

cj7jeep81 · Nov 16, 2018

bulletpruf said:
Thanks for all of the details! I like the idea of going a bit wider, but I can't handle $100k. I'll see about getting a few estimates. There's also the option of adding on to the garage; right now it's a moderately sized two car garage; if I could double the size, that would work, too.

Good points on the HOA and zoning. I need to nail this down before I go much further.

Thanks for all the input!

Scott

Definitely don't get discouraged until you get some quotes, prices vary widely based on finishes and what's included. Also keep in mind you don't have to do it all at once. Just figure out those things that can't easily (doors, square footage, height), and see where you can save.
Also, typically adding on will cost more per foot than building new. Its a lot harder to tie into an existing structure.

But as others said, will depend on what you are allowed to do. My brother is in an HOA, but its a very relaxed one. He built a 30x50 (I think), with vinyld siding and a shingled roof. I know he's significantly under $100 a foot (well under $50 I'm sure), even with in floor heating. My 40x64 is a more traditional pole barn (metall walls and siding), but with some upgrades (thicker floor, 17' height, perma columns, 2" insulation all around), and I'm under $20 per foot.

Bad00SS · Nov 16, 2018

Going off of your 24ft wide and 30 deep I'm assuming you would pull up to a 2 car garage door on the front of the 24ft side. I have a 26x26 attached to the house and I looked into a 2 post lift. it would fit on one side but take this into consideration. the side the lift is on the post will be almost against the wall. You want to be able to walk between the post and the wall. This will need to be done more than you think. work on the rear driver side of the car and you gotta walk up to the front for a tool, now your walking around the whole car the opposite way if post is against the wall. Also I seen a fellow member here learned the hard way pulling out a rear axle on his hotrod. the axle hit the wall before it came all the way out. Now on the other side sure I could park a car there in my 26x26 but the doors wouldn't be able to open full swing without hitting the lift post. what if you need to wire something under the dash and you need the door wide open. I realized I needed to scrap the idea of a lift in my 26x26. I now have a contractor working on plans to build an additional garage next to it. 32 wide x 28 deep. 2 separate single doors and 13ft ceiling. plenty of room for 2 cars and the lift.

tuner4life · Nov 16, 2018

30x40 (with the doors entering from the 40' side) if you are planning to put all the stuff in it that you said, as well as 2 big cars with ample room to work around them.

After seeing a variety of garage shapes and sizes with a variety of stuff packed into them. I can confidently say that nomatter what size you build, in 5 years, it won't be big enough unless you are absolutely **** about what you horde in there.

My advice is build as big as your HOA will allow. I've never heard anyone complain about having too much space in a shop..

bulletpruf · Nov 16, 2018

Ok, that's interesting that it will cost more to tie into the existing structure. However, I could cut down on the square footage by a fair amount if I just expanded the current garage. Momma might not be able to park inside if I went that route, but she's ok with that.

pbon · Nov 16, 2018

I have yet to read a complaint here that the garage is too big. Err on the large end but you can make the best of limitations if you have them — maybe a lift for storage though that often raises the roof construction cost.

OI am in a 23x29 interior dimension with 6x15 bumpout on one side and a 2nd story plus attic and I am happier than I was with 19x29 plus attic storage. Of course I would like a 30x40 or 40x50 or 40x60 but I am downtown in a small city.

bulletpruf · Nov 16, 2018

pbon said:
I have yet to read a complaint here that the garage is too big. Err on the large end but you can make the best of limitations if you have them — maybe a lift for storage though that often raises the roof construction cost.

OI am in a 23x29 interior dimension with 6x15 bumpout on one side and a 2nd story plus attic and I am happier than I was with 19x29 plus attic storage. Of course I would like a 30x40 or 40x50 or 40x60 but I am downtown in a small city.

I want to go as big as reasonably possible, but I'm constrained by my budget, the size of my lot, and what the HOA will allow.

Thanks

Dick in Wisconsin · Nov 16, 2018

Great point on not doing it all at once.

Put up what you need to to satisfy the HOA and municipality. Maybe you can do the electrical later, then insultation, then interior, then boiler, then A/C.

Falcon67 · Nov 16, 2018

I have a 24x40 and can barely do what you're asking for. For what you'd like, 30x40. As above, better first read the HOA covenants and restrictions. Get a copy NOW, do not put in an offer before reading.

As far as cost - Depends on how you want to do it - DIY or pay for turn key. Down there, 45~60K would be a guess and probably way too low.

This part of the shop is 24' deep x 28' wide

bulletpruf · Nov 18, 2018

Showkey said:
Guess the first question to ask ......does the city and subdivision allow outbuilding ......if yes do they limit the size sqft and height.

Build to match the house with HVAC........SWAG........$100-125 sgft

Ok, I checked out what's allowed by the HOA -- they limit outbuildings to 600 square feet. I think we're looking at a large one-car garage with a shop. If I put a lift in it, I can store one car on the lift and one below.

Need to see what dimensions would work here.

bulletpruf · Nov 18, 2018

Ok, so max size on 2 car garage would be something like 23 length x 26 width. I could live with that if I had to, but I don't know if I would be able to put a 2 post lift in there. It might have to be in-ground.

I could do also do a one car garage with a lift and have lots of room to work on stuff, but I usually have a few project cars going at any given time, so I'd have to keep some in storage.

tez929rr · Nov 18, 2018

San Antonio City property taxes are crazy high. If you can find a home in in unincorporated Bexar county with deed restrictions that allow a bigger outbuilding it could be well worth your while. Neighboring counties (Kendall, Comal, Bandera are even cheaper).

School districts matter, too. In Bexar, Harlandale ISD rate is 1.558 while Alamo Height ISD is 1.255. I realize if you have school age children the quality of schools will matter more than the approved tax rate, but at some point you won’t have a mortgage and these relative tax rates will matter a lot more than they do now.

My overall advice is don’t limit yourself. My HOA doesn’t restrict outbuildings at all.

bulletpruf · Nov 19, 2018

tez929rr said:
San Antonio City property taxes are crazy high. If you can find a home in in unincorporated Bexar county with deed restrictions that allow a bigger outbuilding it could be well worth your while. Neighboring counties (Kendall, Comal, Bandera are even cheaper).

School districts matter, too. In Bexar, Harlandale ISD rate is 1.558 while Alamo Height ISD is 1.255. I realize if you have school age children the quality of schools will matter more than the approved tax rate, but at some point you won’t have a mortgage and these relative tax rates will matter a lot more than they do now.

My overall advice is don’t limit yourself. My HOA doesn’t restrict outbuildings at all.

We have a 5 year old, and we plan to stay until further notice (this is our "forever house"), so school districts are quite important to the wife and I.

I think we will be able to find something that will work.

Thanks

JimParsons · Nov 20, 2018

This might help in working out height requirements if you go for the lift to store a couple of vehicles and free up some room.

Source = Pickup World

As you can see, with the new Benpak models, you can get away with less than 9" but you will still need decent concrete to secure the lift so depending on what you want to work on, size wise, this should give you some decent options when looking for your house. I know it says coming soon but you can buy them direct now, on the Bendpak website the image is a little old.

Might not be a lot of room underneath, but you can always use a chair, which is what I personally do. Worth a look.

Hope this helps.

8mpg · Nov 20, 2018

Im glad you found out what the HOA will do but make sure you check with the city. Here in my area (DFW) Im limited to 1/2 the size of my house.

As far as costs, I dont think $100/ft close. Im at $20/ft DIY with spray foam and drywall. My shop is 2100sqft. Lumber package was $13k, concrete $10k, garage doors $6k, electrical $3500, lights $1500, trusses $2000, roof $3500, paint $2500. Im sure theres another $8k in misc. Im right at $50,000 for 2100ft. Add in another $20k if I paid for all the labor and we are talking $33/sqft

Before you buy the house, I'd get IN WRITING the approval by the HOA.

Falcon67 · Nov 20, 2018

bulletpruf said:
Ok, so max size on 2 car garage would be something like 23 length x 26 width. I could live with that if I had to, but I don't know if I would be able to put a 2 post lift in there. It might have to be in-ground.

I'd consider flipping that, 23' wide by 26' deep. Depends on the car you're tinkering with, but the door cars here are 16' and the trucks are every mm of 20' nose to tail with draw bar removed. My 2 post is 9' 3" outside, add 3 off the wall on one side so the far post is about 12' 3" off one wall. That makes room for a work area from there to the other wall, plus depth for working around the ends of the vehicle. I'm 23' 3" deep (inside 24' dim) and the posts are just about dead center in the space. 16' car is not quite 3' off the back wall in lifting position.

Something that may help - go to a home center and get a bundle of grade stakes and about 500' of decent nylon cord. Go out in the yard and stake off various outside dimensions with the stakes and string. Stake off doors, lift location, benches, etc and walk it. You can get a real quick spacial and visual feel for things vs what looks good on graph paper.

Dick in Wisconsin · Nov 22, 2018

Keep looking. At 600sf this will NOT be your forever house.

bulletpruf · Nov 22, 2018

JimParsons said:
This might help in working out height requirements if you go for the lift to store a couple of vehicles and free up some room.

Source = Pickup World

As you can see, with the new Benpak models, you can get away with less than 9" but you will still need decent concrete to secure the lift so depending on what you want to work on, size wise, this should give you some decent options when looking for your house. I know it says coming soon but you can buy them direct now, on the Bendpak website the image is a little old.

Might not be a lot of room underneath, but you can always use a chair, which is what I personally do. Worth a look.

Hope this helps.

Thanks, Jim. This is quite helpful. I'm 6'4" so sitting on a rolling chair makes a lot of sense.

Scott

bulletpruf · Nov 22, 2018

8mpg said:
Im glad you found out what the HOA will do but make sure you check with the city. Here in my area (DFW) Im limited to 1/2 the size of my house.

As far as costs, I dont think $100/ft close. Im at $20/ft DIY with spray foam and drywall. My shop is 2100sqft. Lumber package was $13k, concrete $10k, garage doors $6k, electrical $3500, lights $1500, trusses $2000, roof $3500, paint $2500. Im sure theres another $8k in misc. Im right at $50,000 for 2100ft. Add in another $20k if I paid for all the labor and we are talking $33/sqft

Before you buy the house, I'd get IN WRITING the approval by the HOA.

Thanks for the detailed breakdown; that's quite helpful.

I'm not sure the HOA will approve in advance, but that's an excellent suggestion. I'll see if I can do that.

bulletpruf · Nov 22, 2018

Falcon67 said:
I'd consider flipping that, 23' wide by 26' deep. Depends on the car you're tinkering with, but the door cars here are 16' and the trucks are every mm of 20' nose to tail with draw bar removed. My 2 post is 9' 3" outside, add 3 off the wall on one side so the far post is about 12' 3" off one wall. That makes room for a work area from there to the other wall, plus depth for working around the ends of the vehicle. I'm 23' 3" deep (inside 24' dim) and the posts are just about dead center in the space. 16' car is not quite 3' off the back wall in lifting position.

Something that may help - go to a home center and get a bundle of grade stakes and about 500' of decent nylon cord. Go out in the yard and stake off various outside dimensions with the stakes and string. Stake off doors, lift location, benches, etc and walk it. You can get a real quick spacial and visual feel for things vs what looks good on graph paper.

Thanks for the input. I need to give the dimensions some more thought, especially since I have a Suburban. It won't be parked in the garage, but I'll need to work on it in there.

bulletpruf · Nov 22, 2018

**** in Wisconsin said:
Keep looking. At 600sf this will NOT be your forever house.

Well, it might be. I still have room for stuff in the attached 2 car garage, and we can potentially add on to that, too. Infrequently used stuff that takes up a lot of space (engine hoist, etc) can go into a storage unit, too.

tez929rr · Nov 22, 2018

bulletpruf said:
Thanks for the detailed breakdown; that's quite helpful.

I'm not sure the HOA will approve in advance, but that's an excellent suggestion. I'll see if I can do that.

Did you get a copy of the actual covenants? Lots of HOA boards make stuff up as they go along. It’s good to have an actual copy. And even better to know if it’s that sort of HOA board.

bulletpruf · Nov 22, 2018

tez929rr said:
Did you get a copy of the actual covenants? Lots of HOA boards make stuff up as they go along. It’s good to have an actual copy. And even better to know if it’s that sort of HOA board.

Yes, I have a copy of the covenants/bylaws.

Thanks

Blazinzuk · Nov 23, 2018

So I suggest going up. If at all possible. Build high enough to put a large mezzanine in. Going up I think adds way less cost than going bigger. Since your limited in size if you build a bay wide enough for the lift and a mezzanine over almost all the left over space that would be a massive sq ft improvement.

And if course to save on costs. Get the exterior done and finish the interior yourself including the mezzanine

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