Sears and SBD already in fight over Craftsman

Moparman390 · Mar 6, 2019

This didn't take long:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/sears-is-sued-over-craftsman-brand/ar-BBUt4wj

nbpt100 · Mar 6, 2019

What is the difference between Craftsman and Craftsman Ultimate Collection?

giants · Mar 6, 2019

I couldn't open that link; here's one that worked for me:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...rs-is-sued-over-craftsman-brand-idUSKCN1QO031

Apparently, the lawsuit is only over the Professional Line. I doubt it would help us Craftsman fans.

Moparman390 · Mar 6, 2019

Try this:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sears-stanley-black-idUSKCN1QO031

B_Bimmer · Mar 6, 2019

Glad stanley is trying to protect the value that remains. It's been quite a while since sears did anything that was good for craftsman.

ARFLY · Mar 6, 2019

I don't see it on Sears website now. I thought it said the original home of Craftsman. The articles say the real home of Craftsman. Can anyone verify this?

Wamsutta · Mar 6, 2019

Craftsman is not worth fighting over.

Moparman390 · Mar 6, 2019

I don't know, haven't been in a Sears store in quite a while, the closest one is now 30+ miles away.

Looks like Sears is trying to have it both ways, they sold Craftsman for the money but they want to act like it's still theirs.

jdlong · Mar 6, 2019

nbpt100 said:
What is the difference between Craftsman and Craftsman Ultimate Collection?

Sears attempt to put together sets that leave out fluff. They claim the components are "hand picked by mechanics for mechanics"

Fedwrench · Mar 6, 2019

nbpt100 said:
What is the difference between Craftsman and Craftsman Ultimate Collection?

Satin finished Chinese made tools and full polished Chinese made tools :lol:

BDT/NWMN · Mar 6, 2019

Sears forever boasted customer satisfaction or your money back; so Stanley Black & Decker can tell Sears they want a refund on the Craftsman purchase.

Thinking Judge Judy might have to handle this one.

yrly · Mar 7, 2019

Sears (I mean Transform Holdco...) will likely win this. In fact it may have even been a bad idea for Stanley to sue since Stanley still owes another $250 million to Sears Transform Holdco or whatever due in 2020 to pay for this, and it hasn’t been paid yet. Stanley doesn’t really fully own it without the payment. I’m not even sure Transform Holdco is even who Stanley should be suing. Eddie tucked everything away under a vast array of LLCs. Technically I think KCD holding LLC which is a Bermuda company is in charge of the Sears brands anyway. Sears can probably countersue on the same grounds.

Meanwhile the original agreement basically says Sears can continue to use it to private brand whatever they want as Craftsman and market it as they see fit. It doesn’t say expressly they couldn’t make stuff like Craftsman Ultimate. As far as being the “original home of Craftsman” well it’s true, so it’s not false advertising either.

nbpt100 · Mar 7, 2019

Just from looking on the Sears website it looks like all polished tools and the ratchets are 90 teeth. The combination wrenches are not the raised panel style. Curious of the quality of the ratchet. I did not see it sold separately. I only saw this Ultimate brand in tool kits.

yrly · Mar 7, 2019

nbpt100 said:
Just from looking on the Sears website it looks like all polished tools and the ratchets are 90 teeth. The combination wrenches are not the raised panel style. Curious of the quality of the ratchet. I did not see it sold separately. I only saw this Ultimate brand in tool kits.

They’ve done an in store demo a few times, it feels better than the raised panel. How well it holds up is anyone’s guess. The stuff in general seems better than what the last batch of Chinese Craftsman stuff was, the plating is far better. They do sell them in store individually at least at our store.

Xcursion88 · Mar 7, 2019

Perhaps it's Stanley's way of getting out of the deal in a back door way.

joey1320 · Mar 7, 2019

Wamsutta said:
Craftsman is not worth fighting over.

It is if you paid $900m for it.

unbridledid · Mar 7, 2019

Stanley was hoping that Sears aka the Michael Myers of retail would finally die. They should not worry as busta Rhymes will do like he did in part 8 and it will all be over soon enough.

That being said the roll out at my Lowes (Chicago area) of Craftsman has been like molasses in January. They need to ramp it up and bring out as much as they can as soon as they can.

giants · Mar 7, 2019

unbridledid said:
Stanley was hoping that Sears aka the Michael Myers of retail would finally die. They should not worry as busta Rhymes will do like he did in part 8 and it will all be over soon enough.

That being said the roll out at my Lowes (Chicago area) of Craftsman has been like molasses in January. They need to ramp it up and bring out as much as they can as soon as they can.

At my Lowe's, the Craftsman tools are like fungi, spreading even outside the normally restrictive tool corral area.

dnschmidt · Mar 7, 2019

See what happens when you trust Eddie Lambert!

JulianMorrow · Mar 7, 2019

SB&D and Sears accomplished something that I thought would be impossible: they destroyed one of the most trusted brands in American business. I'm fairly certain that the Craftsman buyout & inevitable decline will be studied in business schools for the next generation. My god, what a fiasco.

yrly · Mar 7, 2019

JulianMorrow said:
SB&D and Sears accomplished something that I thought would be impossible: they destroyed one of the most trusted brands in American business. I'm fairly certain that the Craftsman buyout & inevitable decline will be studied in business schools for the next generation. My god, what a fiasco.

Well sears did strike first by farming it out overseas. Stanley said they’d bring it back and aside from a few items, it’s still mostly imported. Sears found a better foreign source so Stanley sues them. It’s embarrassing and laughable.

6PTsocket · Mar 8, 2019

SB&D has tried other ways to shoot them down, as well. During the bankruptcy hearings, they claimed that the Sears that they bought the Craftsman name from is not the same legal entity that emerged and that the old Sears no longer existed so they had exclusive rights to the Craftsman name. Before, it was Sears Holdings, managed by Eddie Lambert and owing his hedge fund a lot of money. After, it is Eddie's department store. The judge wasn't buying it.

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zendriver · Mar 8, 2019

Maybe it was their realization that people only really give a **** about what Craftsman was, not what it is.

Still trying to figure out the whole "trusted brand" thing. If they were that good, why a professional would not be caught dead using them.

They held up great, if you didn't use them very much?

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Moparman390 · Mar 8, 2019

Man I love the NY Post's art department:

https://nypost.com/2019/03/07/stanley-black-decker-sues-sears-over-craftsman-brand/amp/

yrly · Mar 8, 2019

Well technically the box at the store actually says “Craftsman Ultimate Collection”. So depending on how you read that it could just be an “ultimate collection” of Craftsman tools which pretty much means... nothing.

And I’m not sure where Stanley came up with the advertising slogan they claim they’re using the in store signage says “the original home of craftsman tools”.

I don’t see how if people think the Ultimate tools are better than “Stanley Junk” it is hurting the trademark any. Sales perhaps but not the trademark.

All the articles I’ve read just make it sound like Stanley made a bad deal, which they did. They’re getting up tight about having to compete with like 225 sears stores and sears hometown (since Kmart sells a smaller selection). Plus most of the Sears Hometown stores are in rural areas where someone isn’t going to drive 20 miles to go pick up a single socket.

Personally I have zero sympathy for Stanley. They claimed they were going to make all this stuff in the USA when in reality all they’re sourcing from the US is all the same stuff they made here already anyway. Then they whine and complain because Eddie’s buyers found a better Chinese supplier? Perhaps if they started making the stuff in the US like they initially claimed then people would buy it and you wouldn’t be screwing around in court about advertising claims on Chinese sourced stuff?

greg13 · Mar 8, 2019

giants said:
At my Lowe's, the Craftsman tools are like fungi, spreading even outside the normally restrictive tool corral area.

Plus taking over the areas formerly for Kobalt tools. It would not break my heart at all if the deal with Craftsman & Lowes fell apart. I feel most of the craftsman line has been junk for the last 15 years.

sberry · Mar 8, 2019

How old are you? Its been junk for the last 35+ years. The upside of that is that it has got a lot cheaper. But,,,, that doesn't mean it doesn't have value, all that is rather relative. I am not that fussy and don't have a golden arm. If it works,,, and has I am fine with that.

Jtels85 · Mar 8, 2019

The most important thing to take away from this is that SB&D and Sears are not making Craftsman tools THAT ARE WORTH A DAMN!

YOU’RE STILL NOT GIVING PEOPLE WHAT THEY’VE BEEN DEMANDING FOR NEARLY A DECADE.

MAKE THESE DAMN TOOLS IN THE USA AGAIN YOU GREEDY, CORPORATE PIECES OF ****!!

Rant over.

toolnut · Mar 8, 2019

Some of the stuff at the Sears website look like rebooted Gearwrench stuff.

nbpt100 · Mar 8, 2019

The roll out at my Lowes has also been slow but steady.
The End displays are growing with Craftsman hand tool kits and power tools. The Kobolt inventory appears to be dwindling but still consume the majority of the tool dept. shelf space.

If SBD can not make a success out of the Craftsman Brand then they are idiots. It has more name recognition than any other tool brand around. As mentioned in every other thread here. Our members are tool enthusiasts and or experts. Even some snobs here. I may be one of them. We analyze every possible detail. The average Craftsman buyer will never do such or read the pages here to learn.

Another Fortune 500 company suing a Billionaire. Where is the news? I would bet Fast Eddie will come up with a counter suit of some kind. This class is always trying to finesse money out of each other. Forget morals or scruples. Either one would gladly screw over the other. Not out of emotion but because they think they can.

I hope SBD will be successful in improving the brand. I am not interested in marketing hype or fancy packaging but with real quality improvements. But I am not attached to that outcome.
Interesting to follow.

giants · Mar 8, 2019

I agree.

Craftsman has generations of goodwill built into the name.

I've seen YouTube videos that demonstrate that the current Chinese Craftsman wrenches are more compact in the lobster claw open-end, much closer but still not the same as the US, but much improved over the earlier models.

I wasn't impressed with a Chinese Craftsman 1/2" tear-drop new ratchet at Sears a couple weeks back because of the sloppy machine markings and cutting my finger on it.

I hope that Craftsman returns to the US; it can only benefit the brand and raise the bar for competition, which will help us consumers out.

Here2Learn · Mar 9, 2019

Lampert

Lam-P-ert

No "B" in Lampert.

Someone on here misspells it almost daily.

Thanks for these posts. They crack me up.

Fialaja · Mar 9, 2019

Yeah,if Sears wanted to really put it to SBD,they would contract Wright or SK to make their craftsman tools then they would win this silly war over a brand that no one cares about.

Corporate greed for profit will always trump quality, especially in a big box store.

Look at Kobalt it went from made in the USA by Williams to China and Taiwanese ****

Husky had made in the USA by Stanley to cheap Chinese ****

I always felt that ace and true value should merge and sell SK and Wright. then things might get interesting!

joey1320 · Mar 9, 2019

I still can't believe SBD paid $900m (actually still owes $250m) to Sears for the Craftsman name. Why? What a total waste of money...

unbridledid · Mar 9, 2019

Fialaja said:
Yeah,if Sears wanted to really put it to SBD,they would contract Wright or SK to make their craftsman tools then they would win this silly war over a brand that no one cares about.

Corporate greed for profit will always trump quality, especially in a big box store.

Look at Kobalt it went from made in the USA by Williams to China and Taiwanese ****

Husky had made in the USA by Stanley to cheap Chinese ****

I always felt that ace and true value should merge and sell SK and Wright. then things might get interesting!

Same thing at Menards with the Masterforce sockets. They were all made in the USA and they cleared them out for made in Mao.

Yet they have a 10" prybar and 9" masterforce trim removal piece that look just like their Vaughan counterparts.

I think Stanley should be patient as Eddie will **** the marrow from the bones of Sears and take what he wants. Saving jobs my foot... it is as has been said the slowest bankruptcy in the history of the world.

I emailed Stanley about this global materials business and said they should source the materials from the U.S as well. At least let's say source it from this hemisphere..not to go all Monroe doctrine on everybody. But let's raise the tide in this hemisphere so perhaps there isn't such a need for population shifts ??? Anyway here is what the Stanley person told me..

Hi Joseph,

Thank you for contacting us.

We’re actively working on increasing manufacturing capacity in the U.S. With over 1,200 new products and tools, we need a lot of different materials. We do purchase raw materials and components elsewhere when they are either not available or not viable to purchase in the U.S based on cost or quality. Whenever possible, we try to source from the U.S.

Take a look at our FAQ page for more information https://www.craftsman.com/whereitsmade.

Thank you,
Jessica
Craftsman Customer Care
Visit us online at http://www.craftsman.com

ref:_00D80MUtZ._500C01OZm1M:ref

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zendriver · Mar 9, 2019

China is focused to build factories for advance robotics and electric cars, of the future, wile we want to build factories, to stamp out $3 box-end wrenches.

Hopefully we will feel better, when that is accomplished.

nbpt100 · Mar 9, 2019

I like the idea of ACE, True Value and perhaps some others like Aubachon hardware to team up and sell USA made hand tools. I am not sure it is practical for these companies to work that closely together or if they can keep the pricing competitive but a US manufacturing company could sure make out and create jobs. Since Ace already sells craftsman I am not sure how that would work out.

My local ACE also sells Allen branded hand tools. Not just the hex key wrenches. They must be old stock as I don't think Allen has branded combination wrenches and other types of tools in some time.

nbpt100 · Mar 9, 2019

zendriver said:
China is focused to build factories for advance robotics and electric cars, of the future, wile we want to build factories, to stamp out $3 box-end wrenches.

Hopefully we will feel better, when that is accomplished.

There is no reason we can not do both.

kngelv · Mar 9, 2019

I’m disappointed so far in what SBD has done with the Craftsman line. I was glad to see the increase of Made/assembled in the USA tools with the DeWalt cordless tools and some other stuff they did, and have wondered what the hell they are doing with these Chinese made hard tools. I prefer USA made but if I’m buying hardline tools in that category it will be either Tekton or HF Made in Taiwan stuff.

Y00PER · Mar 10, 2019

unbridledid said:
Same thing at Menards with the Masterforce sockets. They were all made in the USA and they cleared them out for made in Mao.

Yet they have a 10" prybar and 9" masterforce trim removal piece that look just like their Vaughan counterparts.

I'm pretty sure it was APEX supplying Menards with their Made in the USA stuff (sockets, wrenches, etc), so once they closed their last U.S. plant that made it, Menards possibly didn't have much of a choice depending on what their contract with Apex is/was.

Sears and SBD already in fight over Craftsman

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