Knipex, not a "real" lifetime warranty

autoace · Aug 24, 2009

I was talking with my Cornwell dealer today. he showed me a large pair of Knipex groove joint pliers with worn teeth, about 15 yrs. old. He was denied warranty replacement for his customer,by Knipex, because the worn teeth were considered normal wear, and they were not "broken".

He told me the Knipex with the Cornwell logo, would be warranty in this case regardless, but Knipex considers that the lifetime of the tool was served in this case.

Kind of disappointing for a high end company like Knipex.

Channellock, on the other hand would warranty this type of wear, so the dealer says, and he does his fair share of warranty replacement.

for all it is worth.

Stuey · Aug 24, 2009

I might agree with Knipex since normal wear and tear isn't usually covered by anyone's warranty. Then again, why say lifetime warranty...

I've got mixed feelings about this.

Diesel-Mech · Aug 24, 2009

My understanding is that most of the German tool company's do not consider normal wear a warranty issue, you got your use out of it so its time to buy a new one is how they see it.

autoace · Aug 24, 2009

Stuey said:
I might agree with Knipex since normal wear and tear isn't usually covered by anyone's warranty. Then again, why say lifetime warranty...

I've got mixed feelings about this.

Yeah, mixed feelings here also, because I have never worn down the teeth on any CL or Knipex plier, but............................the info. was from a reliable source, and even the dealer thought it was wrong. The pliers looked good besides the teeth, they were not all banged up or anything, so................it seemed like they may have been soft or something. :headscrat

It at least makes me think twice before paying more for Knipex, when Channellock has always seved me well, at a better price.

bchee · Aug 24, 2009

I was just looking at my channellock packaging and it has nothing about the warranty. I couldn't find it on their website either. I did find this pdf file, but I don't know if it's officially from Channellock. I would be surprised if they actually warrantied tooth wear.
http://www.mobile-shop.com/warranties/Channellock_warranty.pdf

I sent them an email asking about it

autoace · Aug 24, 2009

bchee said:
I was just looking at my channellock packaging and it has nothing about the warranty. I couldn't find it on their website either. I did find this pdf file, but I don't know if it's officially from Channellock. I would be surprised if they actually warrantied tooth wear.
http://www.mobile-shop.com/warranties/Channellock_warranty.pdf

I sent them an email asking about it

Cornwells main USA, orange handled pliers are Channellock. My dealer says there has been no warranty problems ever with Channellock, at least through Cornwell, but Channellock may not want to tick off one of its largest distributors also, so who knows. I don't have a real problem with teeth wear, except a few pair of vise grips, but otherwise, no problems, just offered the info, for a informed plier consumer.

Fedwrench · Aug 24, 2009

I seem to remember the European guys talking in a thread awhile back that their tools weren't warrantied for life only a period of I think 10 years. Maybe one on them can add to it.
I can see the Knipex point of view that the tool didn't fail, it's just worn and tools wear out with use. I can also understand a tech's point of view that he paid a premium price for a good tool that should last his lifetime of use. What is the life of a tool used daily in professional use? :headscrat

bchee · Aug 24, 2009

autoace said:
Cornwells main USA, orange handled pliers are Channellock. My dealer says there has been no warranty problems ever with Channellock, at least through Cornwell, but Channellock may not want to tick off one of its largest distributors also, so who knows. I don't have a real problem with teeth wear, except a few pair of vise grips, but otherwise, no problems, just offered the info, for a informed plier consumer.

I know what you mean, I was just checking.
This is from plinker's warranty info thread
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38749

Channellock, Inc,
ATTN: Return Tools.
Route 102,
Meadville PA, 16335
All Channellock tools carry a life-time warranty on manufacture's
defects and defects in workmanship. We do not guarantee the tool if it
has been abused, altered or worn out from use.
If you have a tool that falls under our warranty policy, you have a few
options. You can either try stores like Lowes, Home Depot, Ace
Hardware, True Value, Do-It-Best stores and as long as they have the
same tool in stock, they should replace it for you. (I suggest you take
our 800-724-3018 number with you. Many times the individual associates
are not aware of the policy. Just ask them to give us a call). Another
option would be to send the tool back to us at the factory and we will
be glad to replace it from here. It can be sent to: Channellock, Inc,
Route 102, Meadville PA, 16335, ATTN: Return Tools.

bchee · Aug 24, 2009

Fedwrench said:
What is the life of a tool used daily in professional use?

that's a good question, which is probably why you can get warranty, as a professional, through Cornwell (or whatever truck brand)

If I sent mine in as a home user they might deny the warranty

autoace · Aug 24, 2009

All tool warranty is pot luck, in my opinion. With proper use, most tools don't break. Even if you have a great dealer, like i do, what happens when he is out of business or retired.?

As a tool user, I know when I have to "abuse" a tool, and usually will sacrifice a Harbor Freight special, for abuse duty, then I don't have to use my high end tools for a purpose they were not meant for.

A good example, is every few years, i buy a large Northern Tools screwdriver set, 30 pcs. for 23.99.LOL I don't buy those for turning fasteners, i use them for purposes screwdrivers were not intended for specifically, and keep my premium drivers for fastener turning only.

Merkava_4 · Aug 25, 2009

I can't imagine using pliers so much that the teeth wear out - does not compute.

Danglerb · Aug 25, 2009

How about misusing pliers so much the teeth wear out?

IMHO Knipex are enough better than anything else I would use them even if I didn't expect them to last 15 years.

Curmudgeon · Aug 25, 2009

Diesel-Mech said:
My understanding is that most of the German tool company's do not consider normal wear a warranty issue, you got your use out of it so its time to buy a new one is how they see it.

Those are my sentiments exactly. If I wear out a quality tool, it will have had a lot of use and I figure I've gotten what I paid for. I wouldn't even consider asking the company to replace it under warranty, and would be embarrased to do so.

I have two old Blackhawk 1/2" ratchets that probably date to the late 1940s or 1950s. I got them from my dad in the 1960s and have been using them for another 40 years. They are pretty much worn out. Even if Blackhawk were still around I wouldn't even consider asking them to warranty them.

Vinko · Aug 25, 2009

Diesel-Mech said:
My understanding is that most of the German tool company's do not consider normal wear a warranty issue, you got your use out of it so its time to buy a new one is how they see it.

That's how I'd see it too.

back2class · Aug 25, 2009

Curmudgeon said:
.

I have two old Blackhawk 1/2" ratchets that probably date to the late 1940s or 1950s. I got them from my dad in the 1960s and have been using them for another 40 years. They are pretty much worn out. Even if Blackhawk were still around I wouldn't even consider asking them to warranty them.

Blackhawk is still around. Owned by Stanley

Curmudgeon · Aug 25, 2009

back2class said:
Blackhawk is still around. Owned by Stanley

Stanley owns the name. Beyond that there is no connection with the old Blackhawk tools. I once sent Stanley/Blackhawk an email asking if I could buy parts for these ratchets. It was a longshot, but I figured it was worth asking. They didn't even give me the courtesy of a reply. After what Stanley did to Mac dealers after acquiring the Mac brand, I will no longer knowingly buy anything from Stanley or any of it's companies.

The Blackhawk that made my tools no longer exists.

frimann · Aug 25, 2009

Stuey said:
I might agree with Knipex since normal wear and tear isn't usually covered by anyone's warranty. Then again, why say lifetime warranty...

I've got mixed feelings about this.

Its not YOUR lifetime, but estimated lifetime of the tool. A file has a shorter estimated lifetime than a box wrench, a pin punch has estimated shorter lifetime than a ratchet, and repair kit for ratchets are consumable good, just like brake pads on a car. If you have a car with three years warranty and drive 100 000 km, you will replace brake pads, and the warranty will not cover that. Thats obvious

walrus · Aug 25, 2009

Merkava_4 said:
I can't imagine using pliers so much that the teeth wear out - does not compute.

You fit a few miles of 3/4 rigid conduit and you'll wear plier teeth out, I've worn out many pairs. They still have teeth but they won't grab pipe very well any more. Haven't worn out my Cobras yet, but I'm sure I will

fatfillup · Aug 25, 2009

Merkava_4 said:
I can't imagine using pliers so much that the teeth wear out - does not compute.

I use knipex pliers to turn pipe fitting on pressure washers every day, many times a day. I have worn out about 8 pairs of Knipex in 15 years of using them. So yes they can wear. SO and mac have warrantied their rebranded pairs, never tried Knipex for warranty.

Even if they were not replaced, I would rebuy new ones, they are that good!!

caper · Aug 25, 2009

I have run across this issue with most major tool companies.I have had warranty denied by Snapon,Gray,Proto and Mac for things they said were "worn out".I was also told if I went home and broke the tools then warranty wouldn't be a problem.

cruiser808 · Aug 25, 2009

Merkava_4 said:
I can't imagine using pliers so much that the teeth wear out - does not compute.

I have an old Proto that I wore out. I admit, it had a hard life. I was able to somewhat restore it by using a mini file to reshape the teeth.

wantedabiggergarage · Aug 25, 2009

So does Knipex have some sort of date mark on their tools?

We have one at the shop, that one of the first uses of it (holding a stabilizer link), the teeth crumbled. (now less then 18 months old)
What your saying, made me very happy I bought the Craftsman rebrand, for less.

Skyline · Aug 25, 2009

Curmudgeon said:
Stanley owns the name. Beyond that there is no connection with the old Blackhawk tools. I once sent Stanley/Blackhawk an email asking if I could buy parts for these ratchets. It was a longshot, but I figured it was worth asking. They didn't even give me the courtesy of a reply. After what Stanley did to Mac dealers after acquiring the Mac brand, I will no longer knowingly buy anything from Stanley or any of it's companies.

The Blackhawk that made my tools no longer exists.

Can you elaborate on what Stanley did to MAC dealers?

krusty the clown · Aug 25, 2009

Skyline said:
Can you elaborate on what Stanley did to MAC dealers?

there are several sites own by the same former dealer, check out the links....

http://mactoolssuck.com/

as far a knipex warranty.......it was made clear when matco started carrying them than jaw wear is NOT a warrantable issue (i was a distributer at the time). i have a pair that i have owned for 10 years and the jaws are worn out. in have replaced them with channellock nutbusters and i'm just as happy with thier performance for what i use them for.

Monte · Aug 25, 2009

KNIPEX USA Warranty Guideline (with interesting pics of abused tools...)

click (PDF)

autoace · Aug 25, 2009

Monte said:
KNIPEX USA Warranty Guideline (with interesting pics of abused tools...)

click (PDF)

Knipex warranty is a joke, especially the chipped cutter edge, and the splayed needle nose. I had a set of KAL long, cutting pliers the broke the first time I used them, under Knipex warranty, they would not be covered LOL

Their warranty is non-existent, especially if there is no time frame. Lifetime could be one use, in rare cases.

autoace · Aug 25, 2009

krusty the clown said:
there are several sites own by the same former dealer, check out the links....

http://mactoolssuck.com/

as far a knipex warranty.......it was made clear when matco started carrying them than jaw wear is NOT a warrantable issue (i was a distributer at the time). i have a pair that i have owned for 10 years and the jaws are worn out. in have replaced them with channellock nutbusters and i'm just as happy with thier performance for what i use them for.

Exactly why I posted the info., might make some of us think twice about paying more for Knipex over Channellock :headscrat

HandyManny · Aug 25, 2009

+1 for Channellock. The above post is just one more reason I won't pay high dollar for Knipix pliers. Why bother, when Channellock is still around. One of the last American companies still manufacuring very high quality tools. Most of it's products still made in the USA by American worker. No barrier to buy, available in most better hardware stores and home centers, and are very fair and reasonably priced. My Channellock pliers had served me very well for years with daily use.

autoace · Aug 25, 2009

HandyManny said:
Just one more reason I won't pay high dollar for Knipix pliers. Why bother, when Channellock is still around. One of the last companies still manufacuring very high quality tools. Most of it's products still made in the USA by American worker. No barrier to buy, available in most better hardware stores and home centers, and are very fair and reasonably priced. My Channellock pliers had served me very well for years with daily use.

+1 on that, I have a pair of Channellock 16 inch, groove joint pliers, that are as old as I, they are worn somewhat......................they did their time, and still work. I bought a new pair, also......................would never think of trying to warranty wear, they are 30+ years old.

Cobradriver · Aug 25, 2009

Merkava_4 said:
I can't imagine using pliers so much that the teeth wear out - does not compute.

I have killed a couple of Knipex pliers. Just flat wore the teeth out. NBFD,toss em in the trash,buy a new set and move on with life...you work with tools to make a living you are gonna wear **** out.

Chris

HandyManny · Aug 25, 2009

Cobradriver said:
I have killed a couple of Knipex pliers. Just flat wore the teeth out. NBFD,toss em in the trash,buy a new set and move on with life...you work with tools to make a living you are gonna wear **** out.

Chris

Well said! Wear and tear isn't something people should be using a warranty on. Tools that get used daily for work, will and do wear out over time. When they do they need to get replaced at the users expense. With that said, certain tools will last and wear longer than others. It all depends of the quality of the steel and more importantly the proper heat treatment of the steel. I've found that for pliers, Channellocks last a very long time.

84TurboBuick · Aug 25, 2009

Monte said:
KNIPEX USA Warranty Guideline (with interesting pics of abused tools...)

click (PDF)

With those pics and that wording... Knipex should just change their warranty to.......

"This Knipex Product is warranted until you actually use it"

cruiser808 · Aug 25, 2009

autoace said:
Exactly why I posted the info., might make some of us think twice about paying more for Knipex over Channellock

Vince, you certainly convinced me. :thumbup:

caper · Aug 25, 2009

84TurboBuick said:
With those pics and that wording... Knipex should just change their warranty to.......

"This Knipex Product is warranted until you actually use it"

That sounds about right.How does twisting and pulling on things,which is why you buy pliers in the first place,turn into abuse?Ridiculous.

Monte · Aug 25, 2009

Normal wear will not be warranted by no manufacturer (That´s what they write). If you want you can destroy every tool. Thats why there is a tool for every job. If you use the wrong tool then you could possible damage the tool.

when i read through all the garage journal posts about "unlimited lifetime warranty" from manufacturers like snap-on, mac etc. and i read that dealers don`t warranty items or just keep the tools without returning them, companies and dealers who don`t answer phone calls or emails, dealers who even dont send the broken tools back to the customers, dealers who takes the money but don`t hand down the tools to the customer, dealers who only warranty tools if you buy tools worth thousands of $$..etc. etc... then i wonder why there is a rant about 15 yrs. old pliers with worn teeth.......

HandyManny · Aug 25, 2009

To play devils advocate I really have to mension something I once saw written on a sticker on a new maul hammer. It said something to the effect that "heavy impact or blunt force is abuse and not covered by warranty" :headscrat

This is a bit off subject, but I believe it is very relavent here to this subject. Someone once asked my why I only wear Casio G-Shock watches. Truthfully I like them, but one big reason I like them is because I'm completely impressed with the statement Casio prints in the manual that comes with every G-Shock. It flat out states that the watch is built to withstand full heavy use and can be worn while engaging in full contact sports or while using a jackhammer, etc. All this in a day and time where some "striking tool" manufacurers out there warning the user againt using heavy impact on their tools.

You gotta love it!!!! :lol_hitti

billymade · Aug 25, 2009

So, we have all heard what is referred to as the "German Perspective" from Teutonic tool companies; what is your personal perspective and with your shop buddies.... what do people do? Throw stuff away and buy new? Granted coming from America; our perspective is different but I think it comes from a historical foundation of a nation that has has great wealth, strong capitalistic ideals and natural resources that others haven't... plus, things have been affordable and plentiful! Would be very interested to hear what you and your "Geschäftsfreunde" have to say...

HandyManny · Aug 25, 2009

My personal perspective is that tools, no matter how well made, do wear out in time with use. Wear and tear is not something that should be covered under warranty.

We all know that there are times when we need to improvise. Use a screwdriver as a pry-bar or a pair of lineman's pliers as a hammer. We all understand this improvising and have done it at one time or another. We should also understand that if we do break or prematurely wear out a tool doing so, this is at our own risk and the loss needs to be covered at our expense. Plier jaws and teeth, when used on things like steel fasteners and iron pipes will cause wear on the teeth eventually. The teeth on pliers should last for a lifetime when used exclusively on softer metals like bronze, brass, and copper, but exclusively is rarely the case. To be honest, things like the head of a hammer should be able to stand up to decades of repeated pounding. My perspective.

billymade · Aug 25, 2009

My sense is also; "if you not going to: cover it, fix it, service it, or replace it! Don't with your attitude tell me to jump in a lake or worse.... give me a discount or something on a new one, offer advice on a product that is less prone to breakage. etc.! Keep a customer, do whatever it takes to make a tool usable or whatever..... Solve the customers problems and you will be rewarded with more business... it isn't rocket science! Customers are coming to you with a problem; be the solution and make money in the process! One thing Sears talked about was a concept of a "customer for life" and this was one of the few philosophies I believe is true, something I could believe in! However, it is a challenge to keep a customer and your reputation is only as good as your last transaction, sale or contact with them...

-B- · Aug 25, 2009

The tool is worn out it served it use it did not fail it is not warranty it lasted 15 years how much did it really cost all those years pennies a day of use.

Knipex, not a "real" lifetime warranty

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

ALLIANCE MEMBER

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Banned

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Member Emeritus

Well-known member

Member Emeritus

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member