Want to upgrade my compressor, looking for suggestions

katit · Jul 20, 2019

Hello! I decided to upgrade my air compressor (pic attached)
Budget is up to $1500

What's needed:
Sandblasting smaller parts like brake calipers, suspension parts. Or maybe even wheels. Valve covers, etc.
Running HVLP guns (current compressor does it, but I only did small parts)

Requirements/limitations:
Needs to be quiet, will be installed in basement
Needs to run off household 220V 30A

Any specific brands/models to look for? From checking sandblasting tip specs it seems that I need 20+ CFM
I also read all topics I found here, seem that 2-stage preferred.

NoMoreGreen · Jul 20, 2019

20 cfm at $1500 is very difficult if not impossible. You can get into the 15cfm range with a Quincy qt54 or a Ingersoll rand from tractor supply.

I’ve don’t a bit of research on this topic for my own air compressor purchase coming up soon for house renovations. I am looking at Saylor Beall and Quincy offerings at the moment. Compressor world is my current shopping site.

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plinker · Jul 20, 2019

I dont have a particular recommendation,but Belaire & C-aire compressors seem pretty good, I know of a couple and they've been trouble free.

https://www.tooltopia.com/belaire-218v.aspx

I have a 60gal Husky/CH unit that I picked up and replaced the pump on and it'll do around 10cfm @ 90psi IIRC. Not ideal for any real amount of blasting, I have used a speed blaster with some success. Painting may depend on the spray gun. The motor is a 15A 220v so around 3hp, a true 5hp motor will have about 22A draw.

katit · Jul 20, 2019

NoMoreGreen said:
20 cfm at $1500 is very difficult if not impossible.

Hm. Ok, then how much do I need to spend to get "hobby" level sandblasting-capable compressor? Any "go to" models?

Quietness is very important.

NoMoreGreen · Jul 20, 2019

Just saw your 30 amp requirement. That will knock out a lot of 5 horsepower air compressors
https://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Ingersoll-Rand-2340L5.230-1-Air-Compressor/p705.html

Here is one of the few asking for a 30 amp breaker.

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katit · Jul 20, 2019

NoMoreGreen said:
Just saw your 30 amp requirement. That will knock out a lot of 5 horsepower air compressors
https://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Ingersoll-Rand-2340L5.230-1-Air-Compressor/p705.html

Here is one of the few asking for a

Yes, just double checked and I do have 30a breakers
This compressor looks legit.

Is 14cfm@175psi going to be OK for blasting?
How is the noise?

MattT · Jul 20, 2019

NoMoreGreen said:
Here is one of the few asking for a 30 amp breaker.

What they're calling 28A "amp draw" is FLA for a 5 HP motor not a breaker recommendation. That motor will probably trip a 30 A breaker on start up.

MattT · Jul 20, 2019

katit said:
Yes, just double checked and I do have 30a breakers

If the wiring is existing what size and kind of wire is it? And will this be a dedicated circuit for the compressor?

driftpin · Jul 20, 2019

I bought a refurbished Saylor-Beall 80 gallon, 240 volt, 24 amps, from a shop selling new and refurbished air compressors. Much-less purchase price than your budget. It came with a Baldor motor, new, and a new magnetic switch. I've been bead-blasting w/it, mostly. I can blast continuously.

katit · Jul 20, 2019

MattT said:
If the wiring is existing what size and kind of wire is it? And will this be a dedicated circuit for the compressor?

Matt,

That's really interesting now.. Now I remember exactly what I did. I was wiring garage myself. I have 100A sub-panel and I made 2 dedicated 220v circuits. One for future welder and one for compressor.
Compressor is in a basement. So, I have wire going from panel to switch and then down the basement. I installed 2 30a breakers (cheaper) and I installed 50A cable (don't remember gauge) for welder. I installed thinner wire because I did not find switch rated for 50A. To be honest I didn't even imagine that compressor will need more than that..

So, as you see on picture top one goes to welder, bottom one goes to switch and then down to the basement.

All is copper wire.

Am I really screwed? Not enough for decent compressor? Or your suggestion would be to have 50A breaker since it's only for startups?

katit · Jul 20, 2019

driftpin said:
I bought a refurbished Saylor-Beall 80 gallon, 240 volt, 24 amps, from a shop selling new and refurbished air compressors. Much-less purchase price than your budget. It came with a Baldor motor, new, and a new magnetic switch. I've been bead-blasting w/it, mostly. I can blast continuously.

Used is an option. I just don't think I'm very qualified to determine good/bad and I'd rather have it delivered with warranty. I have ton's of different resto projects and I don't want compressor to be one of them

MattT · Jul 20, 2019

katit said:
Matt,

That's really interesting now.. Now I remember exactly what I did. I was wiring garage myself. I have 100A sub-panel and I made 2 dedicated 220v circuits. One for future welder and one for compressor.
Compressor is in a basement. So, I have wire going from panel to switch and then down the basement. I installed 2 30a breakers (cheaper) and I installed 50A cable (don't remember gauge) for welder. I installed thinner wire because I did not find switch rated for 50A. To be honest I didn't even imagine that compressor will need more than that..

So, as you see on picture top one goes to welder, bottom one goes to switch and then down to the basement.

All is copper wire.

Am I really screwed? Not enough for decent compressor? Or your suggestion would be to have 50A breaker since it's only for startups?

Guessing you've got #8 for the welder and #10 for the compressor just comparing it against the wire you've got on the 20A breaker below them. And it looks to be stranded so maybe THHN in conduit? If it is #10 THHN you should be good for 5 horsepower. But that will probably require a larger breaker unless the motor is real easy to start. The motor calculator I've got handy shows a 60A breaker for 240V 5 HP single phase.

The 30A switch will be a problem especially if you're using it to turn the compressor on. Might have to bypass that and find some other way to control the compressor remotely.

katit · Jul 20, 2019

MattT said:
Guessing you've got #8 for the welder and #10 for the compressor just comparing it against the wire you've got on the 20A breaker below them. And it looks to be stranded so maybe THHN in conduit? If it is #10 THHN you should be good for 5 horsepower. But that will probably require a larger breaker unless the motor is real easy to start. The motor calculator I've got handy shows a 60A breaker for 240V 5 HP single phase.

The 30A switch will be a problem especially if you're using it to turn the compressor on. Might have to bypass that and find some other way to control the compressor remotely.

Don't remember.. But #6 and #8 is in my head. Yes, they both stranded.
No, not in conduit, they all in plastic insulation, purchased by ft at Home Depot.

I can bypass switch no problem. But will it be OK to use breaker? Panel is easily accessible, switch is located next to light switches which is even better.. Why switch going to be a problem you think?

I watched couple of videos on this compressor and some people say they run 30A breakers, some say they use breakers as switch..

Hm. This switch looks good:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton...roller-Toggle-Switch-Black-MS402-DS/302123758

driftpin · Jul 20, 2019

driftpin said:
I bought a refurbished Saylor-Beall 80 gallon, 240 volt, 24 amps, from a shop selling new and refurbished air compressors. Much-less purchase price than your budget. It came with a Baldor motor, new, and a new magnetic switch. I've been bead-blasting w/it, mostly. I can blast continuously.

katit said:
Used is an option. I just don't think I'm very qualified to determine good/bad and I'd rather have it delivered with warranty. I have ton's of different resto projects and I don't want compressor to be one of them

The shop owner is a long-time friend of mine, I've had him advise me on other used compressors I've had, I've purchased parts from him, for them, this was the first full system I've bought. He included a 6 month guarantee, delivery, and with the Saylor-Beall disc valves instead of reed valves, I expect this will last me until it's a problem for the children, "Now, what do we do with this huge thing? With a new Baldor 5 HP/24 amp motor and a new magnetic switch what-else could it need? Eight gauge CU wire & 40 amp service, I'm good to go.

MattT · Jul 21, 2019

katit said:
Don't remember.. But #6 and #8 is in my head. Yes, they both stranded.
No, not in conduit, they all in plastic insulation, purchased by ft at Home Depot.

I can bypass switch no problem. But will it be OK to use breaker? Panel is easily accessible, switch is located next to light switches which is even better.. Why switch going to be a problem you think?

I watched couple of videos on this compressor and some people say they run 30A breakers, some say they use breakers as switch..

Hm. This switch looks good:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton...roller-Toggle-Switch-Black-MS402-DS/302123758

If it is #8 Romex you're probably good. I don't know for sure because I try to avoid the stuff.

The problem with the 30A switch is it isn't likely to be rated for anywhere near 5 horsepower. So it'll likely burn up. And personally I wouldn't use a breaker as a switch for the same reason.

The 40A switch you linked is a bit of an oddball. It's rated for 5 HP at 240v single phase but states overcurrent protection shouldn't exceed the 40A current rating. So it's really only rated for 5 HP when fed with time delay fuses.

AreYaSerious · Jul 21, 2019

Any thing Ingersoll.

katit · Jul 21, 2019

So, verdict is that 5hp will work. How do I arrange shut off then?

And main question is: Can I blast with 15cfm? Some say no, some say yes. I am not going to make money sandblasting, just use it for projects.

Quincy looks good, but gets some bad reviews on quality control.

Citation · Jul 21, 2019

How much sand blasting are you really going to do? You can probably get away with something smaller if that's all your writing allows.

I would strongly suggest looking at used compressors, something good might come up for will under your price target. Also if sandblasting is an occasional thing then a lighter duty 80 gallon unit may be fine.

As for noise, a lot of that comes from the air intake and there are ways to improve it with some low cost DIY options.

matt_i · Jul 21, 2019

katit said:
Quietness is very important.

I was going to ask if the current compressor is "quiet enough"?

I have a 5hp T30 and that thing coupled to a blast cabinet is not what I would call a quiet operation. The compressor runs almost continuously.

seber · Jul 21, 2019

Do not bypass the breaker! I suggest you put a caliper on the wire and find out for sure what it really is. Then buy the proper breaker and install it. If you put the protection at the point of use you will have unprotected wire inside your walls. Not a good scenario. Any weak point in the wiring can burn your house down. Calipers have gotten really cheap and anyone who works with their hands should have one. Check HF.

NoMoreGreen · Jul 21, 2019

I agree with Seber, do not bypass the breaker. That sounds like a fire hazard. You really need proper wiring and a 50-60 amp breaker. If the wiring is #6 or #8 you might be ok.

I do not do any sandblasting so I cant comment on that. There is an amount of people who do sand blasting with 5hp compressors, some even smaller. While it may not be ideal, I think with some patience you will get by.

For reference, I recently learned an Ingersoll Rand 1/2 impact I want, needs 24CFM at load. A good amount of the guns are used in shops and homes without 24 CFM available. Not ideal, but it works ok.

My compressor shopping as come down to a saylor beall, Quincy and an atlas copco. Possibly a Jenny.

My budget originally started at $1500 and the Quincy Qt54 was at the top of my list, and still may be the one I purchase. I am fighting against the need for a 60 or 80 gallon tank. For every bad review, Quincy has taken care of their customer. There was a member here who got 2 bad Quincy's and the third might have had an issue. If I remember correctly, Quincy ended up upgrading his compressor for his troubles. There is a thread on it somewhere on this forum.

NMG

katit · Jul 21, 2019

Responding to all the comments:

1. Is my current setup quiet enough? As I said, it's in a basement corner of my 2400 ranch. Away from bedrooms section above. If I forget to switch it off (and there is leaks(s)) - it will kick on about once a day and freaks out people

When I'm working in garage during daytime everyone can tolerate it, but it's noticeable. Ideally new one should be quieter.

2. How much I am going to sandblast? Well. I didn't attempt to sandblast because I know my setup is not capable. But I do need to sandblast brake calipers or some metal bracket or whatever couple times a year. So far in many years I spent about $1000 paying someone else to do it. I probably would do more if I had ability. And size of parts would max out as valve cover or 17 inch wheel.

3. Current setup gave me problems when I was trying to use cutoff tool, not enough air for a single exhaust bolt, need to do breaks. Same with wheel grinder, need to let compressor catch up. Same with painting, any amount of painting and it starts to fall behind. I wanted to solve all that and get myself into blasting. All in all my use very occasional but when I need it I want it to have enough air.

4. Pictures with calipers and wire picture attached. Also, as I said people report those compressors work just fine with 30A breakers even though 40a recommended from manufacturer. Also, found picture online my wires look veeeery similar to 6awg displayed. I would say identical.

crrcoal · Jul 21, 2019

Have you talked to an electrician about putting in a dedicated line for the compressor?

katit · Jul 21, 2019

crrcoal said:
Have you talked to an electrician about putting in a dedicated line for the compressor?

I have dedicated line already, see topic. We just trying to figure out best way to implement disconnect and see what compressor will work. I do wiring myself.

Wrench97 · Jul 21, 2019

I use a magnetic motor starter with the pressure switch wired in series to wall switch.
While the can be expensive I have been lucky to find good used ones from friends that removed them from old plants and business.

bcradio · Jul 21, 2019

Where do you guys live to have 220 volts instead of 240 volts?

katit · Jul 21, 2019

Is this correct switch?
Big Horn 18825 1-Phase, 220-240-Volt, 5-HP, 22-34-Amp Magnetic Switch - UL Approved https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002LVUWHW/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Anyway, seems like power is not a problem in my case. Just need to make proper compressor choice

katit · Jul 21, 2019

bcradio said:
Where do you guys live to have 220 volts instead of 240 volts?

This is what I found online:

Yes it is the same. Voltages have gone up over the years. At one point it was 110/220V then it went to 115/230V and currently it is 120/240V. 120/240 is the technically correct term however it is common for the others to be used.

120/208V is different as it is a 3 phase versus a single split phase. Common in commercial facilities not so much in residential.

Wrench97 · Jul 21, 2019

This is what I use > https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004PHB5U8/?tag=atomicindus08-20

You certainly can use the one you have linked but I like to have the starter mounted by the compressor and the switch in the garage near the door. By switching the contactor you can use a standard 15 amp switch in series with the pressure switch(switching low amps on the pressure switch makes them last forever).

Wrench97 · Jul 21, 2019

katit said:
This is what I found online:

Yes it is the same. Voltages have gone up over the years. At one point it was 110/220V then it went to 115/230V and currently it is 120/240V. 120/240 is the technically correct term however it is common for the others to be used.

120/208V is different as it is a 3 phase versus a single split phase. Common in commercial facilities not so much in residential.

I keep hearing that but I still have 114v on each leg..................................

bob15 · Jul 21, 2019

bcradio said:
Where do you guys live to have 220 volts instead of 240 volts?

It's all the same.......I grew up hearing it was 220, then 234, now it's 240.....just like it was 110, then 117 and now 120 vac.

katit · Jul 21, 2019

Wrench97 said:
This is what I use > https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004PHB5U8/?tag=atomicindus08-20

You certainly can use the one you have linked but I like to have the starter mounted by the compressor and the switch in the garage near the door. By switching the contactor you can use a standard 15 amp switch in series with the pressure switch(switching low amps on the pressure switch makes them last forever).

Yes, in my case all wiring is sealed, I will need switch for everything (power). But they exist so problem is solved. I don't need them to last forever. I turn compressor on maybe 30 times a year

pstemari · Jul 21, 2019

Wrench97 said:
I keep hearing that but I still have 114v on each leg..................................

If that's the case, then either you're seeing resistive voltage drop or the utility is not giving you the correct voltage. The reason lower numbers show up on motor plates and like was that historically you would see 5 to 10 volts of voltage drop in factory settings.

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Wrench97 · Jul 21, 2019

Old neighborhood, I know none of the wiring or transformers have been changed since I moved in in 82.

clubairth · Jul 21, 2019

I went used. Got a broken Husky. 7.5HP 24 CFM, 80 gallon tank and magnetic starter.
Paid $350 and put about another $400 in parts into it. Run it on a dedicated #8 wire and 50 amp breaker.

For us home guys are you sure you need a new compressor?

If blasting it's almost impossible to have too much air!
.
.
.

katit · Jul 21, 2019

clubairth said:
For us home guys are you sure you need a new compressor?

If blasting it's almost impossible to have too much air!
.
.
.

I am sure deals somewhere. I did look at craigslist and nothing caught my attention. I don’t have truck and even picking one up will be a big deal. And I don’t want to repair one for sure. So unless something like new shows up and cost $6-700 for $1300 new delivered I wouldn’t deal with it. My time, no warranty and extra hassle not worth it.

katit · Jul 24, 2019

I just did some time travel. My own topic asking about power to compressor:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56305&page=5

So.. Switch I got is 40A rated for motor disconnect. Wire is #8.
Seems like I'm ready for 5hp compressor and even for 7.5hp maybe.

Fact that I have breaker for 30A I just didn't think I will need more and it was cheaper.

katit · Jul 25, 2019

How much does it cost to replace compressor pump?
Let's say I can get very nice Quincy/IR/etc brand name compressor with 5hp 2 stage ~15CFM pump where pump is broken.

I am capable to replace pump, no problem. But will it be cost-effective? I guess question is how much replacement pump cost?

driftpin · Jul 25, 2019

240 V single phase 24 amp Baldor motor on a Saylor-Beall 704 air compressor. The switch.

sberry · Jul 25, 2019

There should be a best deals comp thread, there are so many models and threads I cant remember them all. About 3 levels of 2 stage would be great.

Want to upgrade my compressor, looking for suggestions

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