What degree Framing Nailer 21 or 30 Degree?
- Thread starter Viper32
- Start date
DFB
Well-known member
A steeper angled magazine gives a bit more flexibility for getting the gun in some spots.
I have a used 21* PC for a long time with no major issues
Haven't seen any specs does the Milwaukee 30* handle FRH or clipped?
Got any links...
Have to look at availability of fasteners too if you intend to buy local, buying online probably don't matter much. Different angles usually different collation wire/paper/plastic
I have a used 21* PC for a long time with no major issues
Haven't seen any specs does the Milwaukee 30* handle FRH or clipped?
Got any links...
Have to look at availability of fasteners too if you intend to buy local, buying online probably don't matter much. Different angles usually different collation wire/paper/plastic
rlitman
Well-known member
30 degree nails are usually clipped. 21 degree nails are always full round head.
30 Degree
https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Produ.../Nailers-and-Staplers/Framing-Nailers/2745-20
The M18 FUEL™ 30 Degree Framing Nailer sets the new standard for cordless framing nailers. By leveraging our nitrogen spring mechanism, POWERSTATE™ brushless motor, and REDLINK™ Intelligence this nailer provides pneumatic performance with the convenience and freedom of cordless. Delivering the power to sink clipped or full round head nails into dense engineered lumbers, this tool can handle even the most demanding framing applications. To keep you productive and efficient throughout the day this tool fires 3 nails per second with zero ramp up time, meaning a nail is fired as soon as you pull the trigger. Additionally, this tool operates using only our REDLITHIUM™ Batteries and sealed compressed nitrogen to drive each nail, completely eliminating the cost of gas cartridges and maintenance associated with competitors’ nailers. The M18 FUEL™ 30 Degree Framing Nailer delivers the pneumatic performance and durability that professional carpenters and remodelers expect, without the hassle of a compressor and hose or gas cartridge.
Nail sizes: 2 in. – 3-1/2 in.
Nail diameter: 0.113 in. – 0.131 in.
Collation angle: 30 - 34 degrees
Nail head style: Clipp head and full round offset
700 nails per charge on a RedLithium XC5.0 batterySequential and Contact Actuation Modes
Dry-fire lockout, belt hook, rafter hook, & LED work light
21 Degree
https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Produ.../Nailers-and-Staplers/Framing-Nailers/2744-20
The M18 FUEL™ 21 Degree Framing Nailer sets the new standard for cordless framing nailers. By leveraging our nitrogen spring mechanism, POWERSTATE™ brushless motor, and REDLINK™ Intelligence this nailer provides pneumatic performance with the convenience and freedom of cordless. Delivering the power to sink full round head nails into dense engineered lumbers, this tool can handle even the most demanding framing applications. To keep you productive and efficient throughout the day this tool fires 3 nails per second with zero ramp up time, meaning a nail is fired as soon as you pull the trigger. Additionally, this tool operates using only our REDLITHIUM™ Batteries and sealed compressed nitrogen to drive each nail, completely eliminating the cost of gas cartridges and maintenance associated with competitors’ nailers. The M18 FUEL™ 30 Degree Framing Nailer delivers the pneumatic performance and durability that professional carpenters and remodelers expect, without the hassle of a compressor and hose or gas cartridge.
Nail sizes: 2 in. – 3-1/2 in.
Nail diameter: 0.113 in. – 0.148 in.
Collation angle: 20 - 22 degrees
Nail head style: Full round head
Magazine capacity: 45 nails
700 nails per charge on a RedLithium XC5.0 battery
Sequential and contact actuation modes
Dry-fire lockout, belt hook, rafter hook, & LED work light
https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Produ.../Nailers-and-Staplers/Framing-Nailers/2745-20
The M18 FUEL™ 30 Degree Framing Nailer sets the new standard for cordless framing nailers. By leveraging our nitrogen spring mechanism, POWERSTATE™ brushless motor, and REDLINK™ Intelligence this nailer provides pneumatic performance with the convenience and freedom of cordless. Delivering the power to sink clipped or full round head nails into dense engineered lumbers, this tool can handle even the most demanding framing applications. To keep you productive and efficient throughout the day this tool fires 3 nails per second with zero ramp up time, meaning a nail is fired as soon as you pull the trigger. Additionally, this tool operates using only our REDLITHIUM™ Batteries and sealed compressed nitrogen to drive each nail, completely eliminating the cost of gas cartridges and maintenance associated with competitors’ nailers. The M18 FUEL™ 30 Degree Framing Nailer delivers the pneumatic performance and durability that professional carpenters and remodelers expect, without the hassle of a compressor and hose or gas cartridge.
Nail sizes: 2 in. – 3-1/2 in.
Nail diameter: 0.113 in. – 0.131 in.
Collation angle: 30 - 34 degrees
Nail head style: Clipp head and full round offset
700 nails per charge on a RedLithium XC5.0 batterySequential and Contact Actuation Modes
Dry-fire lockout, belt hook, rafter hook, & LED work light
21 Degree
https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Produ.../Nailers-and-Staplers/Framing-Nailers/2744-20
The M18 FUEL™ 21 Degree Framing Nailer sets the new standard for cordless framing nailers. By leveraging our nitrogen spring mechanism, POWERSTATE™ brushless motor, and REDLINK™ Intelligence this nailer provides pneumatic performance with the convenience and freedom of cordless. Delivering the power to sink full round head nails into dense engineered lumbers, this tool can handle even the most demanding framing applications. To keep you productive and efficient throughout the day this tool fires 3 nails per second with zero ramp up time, meaning a nail is fired as soon as you pull the trigger. Additionally, this tool operates using only our REDLITHIUM™ Batteries and sealed compressed nitrogen to drive each nail, completely eliminating the cost of gas cartridges and maintenance associated with competitors’ nailers. The M18 FUEL™ 30 Degree Framing Nailer delivers the pneumatic performance and durability that professional carpenters and remodelers expect, without the hassle of a compressor and hose or gas cartridge.
Nail sizes: 2 in. – 3-1/2 in.
Nail diameter: 0.113 in. – 0.148 in.
Collation angle: 20 - 22 degrees
Nail head style: Full round head
Magazine capacity: 45 nails
700 nails per charge on a RedLithium XC5.0 battery
Sequential and contact actuation modes
Dry-fire lockout, belt hook, rafter hook, & LED work light
Last edited:
DFB
Well-known member
Well specs are pretty close and the 30* can use offset FRH and that "should" meet code where needed... So really just boils down to personal preference and again fastener availability (and overall cost). The steeper magazine probably holds a few less fasteners in the offset FRH style. I notice they don't spec it.
If it was me I might consider the steeper angle tool after checking on a few things.
Just to note My Milwaukee 16 ga. angle finish nail gun is also a 21* magazine. I had a ***** of a time getting the size and brand of fasteners I wanted to use at a Home Depot when I was doing a bathroom remodel for old GF earlier this year. They mostly had straight.
If it was me I might consider the steeper angle tool after checking on a few things.
Just to note My Milwaukee 16 ga. angle finish nail gun is also a 21* magazine. I had a ***** of a time getting the size and brand of fasteners I wanted to use at a Home Depot when I was doing a bathroom remodel for old GF earlier this year. They mostly had straight.
rlitman
Well-known member
Actually, it is the other way around. 30 degree (clipped or offset head) nails touch each other over their length. 21 degree nails need to be spaced by the amount that the head sticks out, so the strip of the same number of nails will be much wider.
Having owned both, the idea of an offset round head doesn't sit well with me. However, the thing I don't like about plastic collated nails is that the plastic strips break and throw shards of plastic at my face (paper never does this).
DFB
Well-known member
Thanks for the clarification and just going back over the linked specs it does point out the 21* tool is also just about 2" longer overall
rlitman
Well-known member
That sounds about right. I think there's about an inch of wasted space in each 21 degree strip.
Handyandy23
Well-known member
Go to your local hardware stores and make sure which degree nail strips they actually stock! It seems to be somewhat regional. In my area every hardware store has 30 degree or 28 degree nails, with no 21 degree in sight. If I bought a 21 degree nailer I'd have to order nails online, which is kind of a PITA.
anythingyoucanimagine
Well-known member
I have the Paslode compact 30* framer and a Bostitch 21* (f21pl) framer. The Paslode is great for small stuff but as soon as you do anything big it feels like all you do is run out of nails. The Bostitch is an industry standard framing gun. It'll shoot anything and just works. I never counted the difference between how many nails are in a strip of 30* vs. the 21*. (see below, I counted Paslode)
Watch for nail capacity, especially with some of the battery guns. The Paslode is a pain in the ***. It stops shooting with a couple nails left in the slide but if you try to put more nails in too soon a whole strip doesn't fit. I find myself breaking strips in half and feeding it almost constantly.
I also find that gun to be VERY temperamental with non-Paslode brands of nails. It loves Paslode brand (never jams) but I find it jams constantly with other brands. Very hit-or-miss so I just buy the expensive nails because I'm not a pro. Not sure what you'll do with it or if you care, some jurisdictions don't want to see clipped for framing work.
The Paslode nails (21 or 30) are all full round head but the 30* nails are offset head on the nail shank. They are not clipped but other 30* brands are clipped The Paslode ring shank nails are a pain in the ***. Might as well carry an angle grinder because you aren't getting them out --heads snap off every time. I haven't tried any other 30* brands because they jam in that gun.
The bostitch 21* is a workhorse. That thing will shoot anything you shove down the slide. Have buddies/contractors who swear by them, have used that gun for years (probably haven't oiled it for years either), not sure if it's the gun or the 21* angle nails but it's very reliable and shoots anything. Haven't really used that gun other than for positive placement stuff.
Father in law has my Bostitch 21* gun so couldn't count that (would be Grip-Rite brand from HD). Paslode: 3-1/4, 30*, Paslode brand, paper, 38 nails per strip. 2-3/8, galv, ring shank, Paslode brand, paper, 37 nails per strip. I think the Paslode compact advertises something like 43 nail capacity. (it's small)
I own DeWalt 20v finish and brad guns. I've never used a cordless (gas/battery) frame/roof gun. One thing I noticed about the yellow 20v finish/brad is they are slow. They are perfectly fine for finish work but if the yellow framer is that slow it would piss me off. If you ever used a positive placement gun I'd say it's slow like that. The time it takes to line up a PP gun is about the time it takes for the DeWalt finish/brad guns to recoil for next nail. They really aren't fast and that would be my only concern. I'd want to use one before I buy. Just to make sure you can get a decent burst of 2-3 nails in a row.
Everyone says "check your local store for availability" regarding 21/30 and nail selection, brand, sizes, etc. My local HD/Lowes carry anything I'd need. (I think Lowes may be dumping Paslode stuff so look for clearance) I've never had that problem but I guess if so many others say it, it must be a thing.
Sorry this wasn't supposed to be this long.
Pros/Cons: Do you currently own a framing gun? I'd buy whichever degree works with the gun you currently own. That way you can just buy "nails", not like me "nails for Bostitch" and "nails for Paslode". You'll just have "nails".
I love the compact-ness of the Paslode framer but I want FRH and I think Paslode's FRH is just as bad as most clipped. I'd probably do 21.
Another thing to consider is your friends/co-workers. If everyone else has 21* and you show up to a deck party with 30* then you are odd-man-out. It's nice to have same as everyone else.
Hope that long ramble helps. GL with purchase. Please do come back and post feedback on the gun's recoil/recharge speed. I'd be interested to hear what you think.
Watch for nail capacity, especially with some of the battery guns. The Paslode is a pain in the ***. It stops shooting with a couple nails left in the slide but if you try to put more nails in too soon a whole strip doesn't fit. I find myself breaking strips in half and feeding it almost constantly.
I also find that gun to be VERY temperamental with non-Paslode brands of nails. It loves Paslode brand (never jams) but I find it jams constantly with other brands. Very hit-or-miss so I just buy the expensive nails because I'm not a pro. Not sure what you'll do with it or if you care, some jurisdictions don't want to see clipped for framing work.
The Paslode nails (21 or 30) are all full round head but the 30* nails are offset head on the nail shank. They are not clipped but other 30* brands are clipped The Paslode ring shank nails are a pain in the ***. Might as well carry an angle grinder because you aren't getting them out --heads snap off every time. I haven't tried any other 30* brands because they jam in that gun.
The bostitch 21* is a workhorse. That thing will shoot anything you shove down the slide. Have buddies/contractors who swear by them, have used that gun for years (probably haven't oiled it for years either), not sure if it's the gun or the 21* angle nails but it's very reliable and shoots anything. Haven't really used that gun other than for positive placement stuff.
Father in law has my Bostitch 21* gun so couldn't count that (would be Grip-Rite brand from HD). Paslode: 3-1/4, 30*, Paslode brand, paper, 38 nails per strip. 2-3/8, galv, ring shank, Paslode brand, paper, 37 nails per strip. I think the Paslode compact advertises something like 43 nail capacity. (it's small)
I own DeWalt 20v finish and brad guns. I've never used a cordless (gas/battery) frame/roof gun. One thing I noticed about the yellow 20v finish/brad is they are slow. They are perfectly fine for finish work but if the yellow framer is that slow it would piss me off. If you ever used a positive placement gun I'd say it's slow like that. The time it takes to line up a PP gun is about the time it takes for the DeWalt finish/brad guns to recoil for next nail. They really aren't fast and that would be my only concern. I'd want to use one before I buy. Just to make sure you can get a decent burst of 2-3 nails in a row.
Everyone says "check your local store for availability" regarding 21/30 and nail selection, brand, sizes, etc. My local HD/Lowes carry anything I'd need. (I think Lowes may be dumping Paslode stuff so look for clearance) I've never had that problem but I guess if so many others say it, it must be a thing.
Sorry this wasn't supposed to be this long.
Pros/Cons: Do you currently own a framing gun? I'd buy whichever degree works with the gun you currently own. That way you can just buy "nails", not like me "nails for Bostitch" and "nails for Paslode". You'll just have "nails".
I love the compact-ness of the Paslode framer but I want FRH and I think Paslode's FRH is just as bad as most clipped. I'd probably do 21.
Another thing to consider is your friends/co-workers. If everyone else has 21* and you show up to a deck party with 30* then you are odd-man-out. It's nice to have same as everyone else.
Hope that long ramble helps. GL with purchase. Please do come back and post feedback on the gun's recoil/recharge speed. I'd be interested to hear what you think.
I was searching for info on these and came across this thread, funny that you just posted yesterday for an update!
I don't have one yet but I too am very interested - Im just a homeowner but I use my pneumatic all over our 40-acre property and its a PITA dragging my small generator, air compressor, and nailgun all over the place....this would make my life 100x easier.
Im not sure to get the 21 or 30 degree nailer either...I'm leaning towards the 30 degree for the simple reason that Acme says it'll be back in stock June 16 while the 21 degree is out until July 16 - would be nice to get it a month earlier.
Can both 21 and 30 degree nails be gotten in paper-collated? I really would prefer paper over plastic...but I assume paper can be gotten in both angles?
rlitman
Well-known member
I have the 21 degree Milwaukee pneumatic framer. I like it, and it hasn't given me any trouble yet, for what that's worth.
Handyandy23
Well-known member
I know it's been beaten to death already, but just check what nails are easier to get locally. I know some people have posted and said they can get either 21 or 30 degree locally, but locally I can only get 30 degree paper collated offset round head. Not sure if it's based on local building codes or just local customs. I could have gotten a 21 degree nailer slightly cheaper, but then have to order nails online.
I've also seen Bostitch specifically makes a 28 degree nailer and nails, as well as in 21 and 30 degree configurations. Not sure what the advantage would be of that, just being dependent on buying Bostitch brand nails forever.
I've also seen Bostitch specifically makes a 28 degree nailer and nails, as well as in 21 and 30 degree configurations. Not sure what the advantage would be of that, just being dependent on buying Bostitch brand nails forever.
The biggest difference I see between the two is the cost of nails. 30* is paper collated 21* is wire weld. Paper is about 1/3 cheaper per case. Or atleast it is here. It's also way easier to break a stick of paper tape apart if you need a few to hand drive
rlitman
Well-known member
Or plastic collated. Wire weld is OLD technology, and many wire welded nails will mess up newer guns.
So if I want paper I should stick with 30*?
rlitman
Well-known member
Paper ONLY comes in 30 degree. That's because paper collated nails have to have each nail shank in contact with the next for the paper to work. Anything that requires a gap between the nails needs plastic or wire.
Perfect - thanks! Thats just what I needed to hear, I'll go with the 30* nailer then. Placing my order today, Acme says it should ship out around June 16...I'll post up a review as soon as I get it!
This time of year Im fixing everything up around the farm so theres no shortage of projects to use it on...
So my little review is as follows.
Just for some background - I am in no way a "professional" user...it will be used solely for projects around our property (chicken coops, outbuildings, fencing, etc).
Unboxing the nailer, it's clear its a typical well made Milwaukee M18 tool. Heavy, excellent fit/finish, everythings tight and smooth. Yesterday we spent about 5 hours putting a small lean-to off the side of our new chicken coop to expand their outdoor run area. I did not keep count of the nails but Im guessing I reloaded about 12 times... I think its 43 nails per strip, so Im estimating 500+ nails. Not a single nail didn't drive home...not one. Every one sunk in to depth perfectly. And they fired in with minimal vibration/impact to the lumber I was nailing, so for example when I'd hold a rafter in place and nail it, it didn't knock it out of alignment on me like sometimes would happen with my air nailer.
First, the tool is definitely heavier than my old Bostitch nailer...no doubt. I really only noticed the heft when I was nailing over my head though, otherwise its not much of an issue.
Second, the magazine only holding 1 strip is a little annoying...but not so much for me that I'll spend the money on the longer magazine. The inconvenience of the smaller magazine is made up for by the fact that it keeps the gun shorter and more compact...I personally think thats an ok tradeoff. The thing about the magazine that is annoying is that you really can't load a new strip until you are down to the final 3 or 4 nails...so if you see you've got like 9 nails left and you're getting ready to climb onto something, you need to either drop those final 9 our and reload a full strip, or bring a full strip with you for when you need it. Again - none of this is a big deal for my use. Im not firing thousands of nails into roofing or framing all day, so its ok. Its more than made up by the fact I dont have to bring out a generator and air compressor for the job in the first place.
Some reviews I watched the guys didn't like the tip, or felt it wasnt aggressive enough to bite into the wood. I completely disagree with that, I found the tip to be perfect and actually work much better than the more aggresive tip on my Bostitch. I toe-nailed a lot for this project and every nail fired in perfect, largely due to the shape of the tip allowing me to get a nice sturdy press in before firing. I was VERY impressed with its performance toe-nailing.
I used 2 of 4 bars on a XC 5.0 battery, so plenty of life for any project. I may even try a little CP 3.0 to save a little weight next time.
So far, I am incredibly happy with the purchase. Professional users may have different feelings, but as a landowner with various ongoing small projects, this things an absolute homerun. A lot of times I would just grab a box of 3" deck screws and my impact driver because I did not want to bother with an air compressor when really nails would be the better choice....now I can use this instead. I think this will quickly become a very commonly used tool on our property.
Just for some background - I am in no way a "professional" user...it will be used solely for projects around our property (chicken coops, outbuildings, fencing, etc).
Unboxing the nailer, it's clear its a typical well made Milwaukee M18 tool. Heavy, excellent fit/finish, everythings tight and smooth. Yesterday we spent about 5 hours putting a small lean-to off the side of our new chicken coop to expand their outdoor run area. I did not keep count of the nails but Im guessing I reloaded about 12 times... I think its 43 nails per strip, so Im estimating 500+ nails. Not a single nail didn't drive home...not one. Every one sunk in to depth perfectly. And they fired in with minimal vibration/impact to the lumber I was nailing, so for example when I'd hold a rafter in place and nail it, it didn't knock it out of alignment on me like sometimes would happen with my air nailer.
First, the tool is definitely heavier than my old Bostitch nailer...no doubt. I really only noticed the heft when I was nailing over my head though, otherwise its not much of an issue.
Second, the magazine only holding 1 strip is a little annoying...but not so much for me that I'll spend the money on the longer magazine. The inconvenience of the smaller magazine is made up for by the fact that it keeps the gun shorter and more compact...I personally think thats an ok tradeoff. The thing about the magazine that is annoying is that you really can't load a new strip until you are down to the final 3 or 4 nails...so if you see you've got like 9 nails left and you're getting ready to climb onto something, you need to either drop those final 9 our and reload a full strip, or bring a full strip with you for when you need it. Again - none of this is a big deal for my use. Im not firing thousands of nails into roofing or framing all day, so its ok. Its more than made up by the fact I dont have to bring out a generator and air compressor for the job in the first place.
Some reviews I watched the guys didn't like the tip, or felt it wasnt aggressive enough to bite into the wood. I completely disagree with that, I found the tip to be perfect and actually work much better than the more aggresive tip on my Bostitch. I toe-nailed a lot for this project and every nail fired in perfect, largely due to the shape of the tip allowing me to get a nice sturdy press in before firing. I was VERY impressed with its performance toe-nailing.
I used 2 of 4 bars on a XC 5.0 battery, so plenty of life for any project. I may even try a little CP 3.0 to save a little weight next time.
So far, I am incredibly happy with the purchase. Professional users may have different feelings, but as a landowner with various ongoing small projects, this things an absolute homerun. A lot of times I would just grab a box of 3" deck screws and my impact driver because I did not want to bother with an air compressor when really nails would be the better choice....now I can use this instead. I think this will quickly become a very commonly used tool on our property.
Attachments
Oh one more thing - even the belt clip and the rafter clip they have on the nailer are super handy. I actually originally thought I'd just remove them but I found myself hanging it off my pocket while I adjusted a piece of lumber, then grabbing it for a nail very often. Just make sure you've got a nice sturdy belt...its heavy enough it will pull your pants down without one....
The rafter hook folds out of the way when not in use and is hardly even noticeable, but when I was putting the nailer down it was great to hang off my ladder to keep the gun out of the dirt. Worked great.
The allen key that stores on the nailer for clearing jams would NOT stay seated in its spot though...I need to see if somethings wrong with it, or its just a crappy design. But I put the allen wrench aside before I ended up losing it.
The rafter hook folds out of the way when not in use and is hardly even noticeable, but when I was putting the nailer down it was great to hang off my ladder to keep the gun out of the dirt. Worked great.
The allen key that stores on the nailer for clearing jams would NOT stay seated in its spot though...I need to see if somethings wrong with it, or its just a crappy design. But I put the allen wrench aside before I ended up losing it.
Downwindtracker 2
Well-known member
I had used air nailer for shooting down sheathing when they first came out. Spikers weren't out yet. 6 years later I got to use the standard nailer you see now. Company supplied. I moved on to industrial maintenance , millwright. One of my fellow millwrights had been a contractor on the side. When we talked about nailers, he said you want a coil nailer. They can do blocking much easier. I think half the man hours in building a house is installing blocking. All the " pros " use coil nailers and NOT Bostich . Since I was only going to do a house, shed and a garage . I bought a Bostich coil air nailer. it was on sale and they said it should last that long. Bostich quality has gone way down hill since my days framing, I guess.