Just lost the roof to my brand new pole building...Advice for the rebuild?

tycoonbob · Nov 27, 2019

Hi all, long time creeper here.

I finally, after years of dreaming about it, got my building built. A 40x48x14 post frame construction, 3/12 pitch trusses, 2x6 girts, 2x4 purlins, and a nice partial wrap around lean-to. 2 12x12 overhead door openings, but no doors installed yet.

Like, literally just had the finish being built yesterday, contractor cleaned the site, packed up, and left. This morning we had a decent storm, sustained 25-30 mph wind, which some gust up to 50 mph I'd guess? Well, tore my brand new roof right off. Trusses are fine, but it ripped the purlins out of the trusses, took the whole thing up in the air, folded in half and landed in the neighbors yard. Luckily, no property damage that I could tell and I've managed to secure any metal and things that might have continued to blow around.

Metal was attached to purlins using screws, and it doesn't look like that failed. Some of the metal did rip, but that could had been from the landing. But, the purlins were attached to the trusses using 3" framing nails, and that's where the failure was. It's also put a lean on the eave walls of my brand new building. Needless to say, I'm heartbroken. But, contract says he's going to take care of it, so that's great.

But, I'm wondering what should be done to prevent this from happening again? Is there any "after-the-build" things that can be done to add additional support? Additional girts on the inside (and attach an interior finish to that, for example)? What about adding more purlins in the trusses? I'm guessing the roof should had been attached to more purlins than it was, but what is that number? I want to say there were 5 rows of screws on each sheet of metal on the roof? I want to say the roof metal is ~20' in length? Should the metal been screwed into more purlins?

I'm just at a loss here...so grateful no one was hurt, but I want to this fixed the right way otherwise I'm just going to be concerned WHEN (not if) this will happen again.

Luckily, it was caught on video. Yes, that's me standing 50' away from it...

Also, here is a link to a Google Photos album which has pictures from the build, as well as the damage from today:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Jh2kUDbBBsbMBvon9

Any advice or thoughts would be super appreciated!

EDIT: Now that this is all over, insurance has settled, debris cleaned up, etc...I want to update this first post with the contractors name for anyone who goes searching Google for info on this company. Jackson Contractors, LLC out of London, KY. By no means am I saying to not use them, but I think the information in this thread is very useful and I hope someone can learn from my experience.

Bretny · Nov 27, 2019

Well i would start by putting doors on. That could have been the major factor in the roof lifting up at 35mph winds.

vrinner · Nov 27, 2019

Doors for sure would have helped. I like how the cats were like, "Oh ****" then took off running for their lives and you looked like, "Oh well...gotta still pickup the trash in the yard, I'll deal with that mess later."

napaul · Nov 27, 2019

if I had to take a guess I would say no doors channeled air under the roof and contributed to it blowing loose. looks like metal roof weakest link in basically pressurized room

KenC · Nov 27, 2019

Yeah. doors have helped. But still that should not have separated like that. Purlins just not attached well enough.. framing screws, how many per truss. And, at least IMO, 3" isn't long enough. That's only 1.5" engagement. I was taught that 2/3 of the length should be engaged in the structure. So, by that rule it should have had 4 or 4.5" screws.

If it were mine, it would get simpson ties at each purlin/truss connection. Screws or nails would be ok as that would have shear connection, not tension.

I have one of those cheap horizontal rib metal things. 24x21 with 13' side walls. No South end, open like your doorless side.

65MPH gusts yesterday, and similar many previous times. Still standing.

Copymutt · Nov 27, 2019

Hurricane straps are code, I believe everywhere.

b-boy · Nov 27, 2019

20-30 mph winds is nothing. We get 60-70+ sustained gusts here several times a year. I've never had a problem.

Seems like the builder needs to significantly beef up the way he's attaching the purlins. The way that thing peeled of in one piece was a little scary. I could see a few sections failing, but the entire thing all at once tells me that it was a systemic problem.

I'd be pretty concerned going forward. What other weaknesses are going to pop up in the future?

Kevin54 · Nov 27, 2019

You are in going to end up in a major ******* contest between the contractor and the insurance company. If you had doors on it probably wouldn't have happened. BUT...if you DID have doors and were coming home to park the car in the garage, opened the door and it happened, it would be different. The roof shouldn't have come off though either way, especially with only 50mph gust. Myself, I'd lay the blame on the contractor. See what he has to say first to see if he'll make it right with you. If not, call your insurance company to see what they have to say. It may fall under an "Act of God" and you'll be out your deductible. And lastly, you may have to get an attorney to go after the contractor. Bad thing to happen, but in all reality, it shouldn't have failed.

DeeDubz · Nov 27, 2019

The city where I live requires 100mph wind proof roof. That ***** OP, sorry to hear that.

PWC Repair · Nov 27, 2019

I had an old rotten barn with a nailed on rusty tin roof that never ripped away through a storm. Guessing there might be a little story telling going on and the purlins were actually toenailed in, one single 16 penny nail per truss. Very common on those build 'em fast pole barns. Go check out the mangled roof and see how it was attached. Basically it could have been a year down the road......your outside washing your car with both doors open on the building........whoooshh!!!

cvairwerks · Nov 27, 2019

At only a .5 psi differential, you would have had over 69 tons of force lifting that roof if evenly distributed...

2level · Nov 27, 2019

Hurricane straps are your friend. You got lucky that this happened before the building was full.

jbwilkins · Nov 27, 2019

Check the 'framing screws' he used to attach the purlins.....did they shear or pull out.....if they sheared then they probably aren't rated for framing......

LOW1 · Nov 27, 2019

Notify your insurance company asap. If the contractor does not make it right and tdebris is removed without giving them a chance to inspect they may be off the hook

farmall400 · Nov 27, 2019

I'm sure doors would've helped. One thing I noticed is that your horizontal exterior girts look more than 2' on center. My post frame building and most others that I have seen all have the girts at 2' centers. I'm assuming the builder puts this savings in his pocket which could be a pretty good sum depending how many buildings he does. What kind of savings did he take on the roof? Hope he treats you right.

rayra · Nov 27, 2019

Yep, hurry and document the screws used in the purlins debris.

Needed better screws regardless of what is found, obviously.

Did you actually orient the doors towards the prevailing winds?

tthornto · Nov 27, 2019

I blame Bernoulli.
If you had either doors, or didn't have that huge gap under the wall it would have been fine. But with both openings the wind had both a way into the building and a way out, turning your roof into a giant sail/wing.

Good luck with the rebuild, I hope your contractor takes care of it for you, and if not I hope your insurance does.

tthornto · Nov 27, 2019

In your post you said the Purlins were ripped out from the trusses, but in the pictures it looks like at least most of the purlins are still on the building, and the roof peeled off. Was it just the first purlin that ripped out of the trusses? Was the roof attached to the purlins with screws, roofing nails, or scrails?

tycoonbob · Nov 27, 2019

Bretny said:
Well i would start by putting doors on. That could have been the major factor in the roof lifting up at 35mph winds.

Sure, doors will definitely be put on, but even without doors this shouldn't have happened.

vrinner said:
Doors for sure would have helped. I like how the cats were like, "Oh ****" then took off running for their lives and you looked like, "Oh well...gotta still pickup the trash in the yard, I'll deal with that mess later."

Yes to the doors, but lack of doors is not the reason the roof failed. Those cats are smart...me, just staring like a deer in headlights, lol. Been a heck of a day...

napaul said:
if I had to take a guess I would say no doors channeled air under the roof and contributed to it blowing loose. looks like metal roof weakest link in basically pressurized room

I think you're spot on about that. The roof shouldn't have failed like that though.

KenC said:
Yeah. doors have helped. But still that should not have separated like that. Purlins just not attached well enough.. framing screws, how many per truss. And, at least IMO, 3" isn't long enough. That's only 1.5" engagement. I was taught that 2/3 of the length should be engaged in the structure. So, by that rule it should have had 4 or 4.5" screws.

If it were mine, it would get simpson ties at each purlin/truss connection. Screws or nails would be ok as that would have shear connection, not tension.

I have one of those cheap horizontal rib metal things. 24x21 with 13' side walls. No South end, open like your doorless side.

65MPH gusts yesterday, and similar many previous times. Still standing.

I said framing screws (purlin to truss), but meant 3" framing nails. And looking at it this evening, it's just 1 nail per truss. I think that right there is a big part of the problem. The other problem is that the metal was only screwed to maybe 4 purlins on each pitch of the roof. More screws holding the metal to purlins would probably have helped, as well as using longer nails (or better yet, screws) holding the purlins to the trusses and this probably wouldn't have happened.

tycoonbob · Nov 27, 2019

Copymutt said:
Hurricane straps are code, I believe everywhere.

Are they? Didn't realize. But aren't hurricane straps (and similar fasteners) used to mount the trusses to the posts/top plate? Trusses seem just fine; it's the purlins that pulled out of the trusses that failed.

b-boy said:
20-30 mph winds is nothing. We get 60-70+ sustained gusts here several times a year. I've never had a problem.

Seems like the builder needs to significantly beef up the way he's attaching the purlins. The way that thing peeled of in one piece was a little scary. I could see a few sections failing, but the entire thing all at once tells me that it was a systemic problem.

I'd be pretty concerned going forward. What other weaknesses are going to pop up in the future?

Spot on...I'm concerned about what else may pop up in the future. If I can do things on the inside to reinforce, I'll do it.

Kevin54 said:
You are in going to end up in a major ******* contest between the contractor and the insurance company. If you had doors on it probably wouldn't have happened. BUT...if you DID have doors and were coming home to park the car in the garage, opened the door and it happened, it would be different. The roof shouldn't have come off though either way, especially with only 50mph gust. Myself, I'd lay the blame on the contractor. See what he has to say first to see if he'll make it right with you. If not, call your insurance company to see what they have to say. It may fall under an "Act of God" and you'll be out your deductible. And lastly, you may have to get an attorney to go after the contractor. Bad thing to happen, but in all reality, it shouldn't have failed.

Luckily the contractor has already agreed (via text so have proof) that he will take care of this. If not, that's what insurance is for and I'm sure insurance would end up suing the contractor company for reimbursement. Luckily no damage to my property (outside of this building) or neighboring property, so gonna try to avoid insurance as long as the contractor steps up to take care of this.

2level said:
Hurricane straps are your friend. You got lucky that this happened before the building was full.

Aren't hurricane straps (and similar fasteners) used to mount the trusses to the posts/top plate? Trusses seem just fine; it's the purlins that pulled out of the trusses that failed.

jbwilkins said:
Check the 'framing screws' he used to attach the purlins.....did they shear or pull out.....if they sheared then they probably aren't rated for framing......

I actually meant framing nails. 3" framing nails holding the purlins to the trusses, and they pulled right out. Looking at the purlins that I've recovered so far, there is 1 nail through the purlin to each truss. Definitely the weak link here...

LOW1 said:
Notify your insurance company asap. If the contractor does not make it right and tdebris is removed without giving them a chance to inspect they may be off the hook

I haven't contacted my insurance company, but I think this is good advice. I'm sure I can have an adjustor out just to inspect and not go through insurance if the contractor decides to handle this himself? Maybe should do that...

Cobra5150 · Nov 27, 2019

tycoonbob said:
I said framing screws (purlin to truss), but meant 3" framing nails. And looking at it this evening, it's just 1 nail per truss. I think that right there is a big part of the problem. The other problem is that the metal was only screwed to maybe 4 purlins on each pitch of the roof. More screws holding the metal to purlins would probably have helped, as well as using longer nails (or better yet, screws) holding the purlins to the trusses and this probably wouldn't have happened.

Say no more that is all totally on the builder. It's no surprise that thing came off like it did.

walrus · Nov 27, 2019

Sorry that happened to you. Doesn't look like roof was attached very well. Simpson Strong ties would certainly help

jbwilkins · Nov 27, 2019

Nails should be installed perpendicular to the load. If he’d toenailed the purlins they probably would have faired batter in an uplift situation.

If he’s going back with nails then hurricane ties are in order.

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tycoonbob · Nov 27, 2019

farmall400 said:
I'm sure doors would've helped. One thing I noticed is that your horizontal exterior girts look more than 2' on center. My post frame building and most others that I have seen all have the girts at 2' centers. I'm assuming the builder puts this savings in his pocket which could be a pretty good sum depending how many buildings he does. What kind of savings did he take on the roof? Hope he treats you right.

Doors definitely would have helped, but this still shouldn't have happened. As far as the girts, yeah they seem to be more than 2' on center. It's a 14' height at the bottom of the trusses, and there are 5 girts including the top and bottom. So that would be over 3' on center. I didn't know 2' on center was a thing, else I would have said something about it...but I don't think that would have prevent the roof from going like it did.
He seems to be more than willing to get this taken care of though. Hopefully soon...

rayra said:
Yep, hurry and document the screws used in the purlins debris.

Needed better screws regardless of what is found, obviously.

Did you actually orient the doors towards the prevailing winds?

I misspoke above; purlins were attached to the trusses with 3" nails, not screws. Nails pulled right out. I will definitely get pictures of that close up tomorrow, so I have that. Worst part is the purlins had 1 nail to each truss...I feel like there should had been at least 2.
And I think the other problem is the metal on the roof wasn't attached to as many purlins as it should had been.

tthornto said:
In your post you said the Purlins were ripped out from the trusses, but in the pictures it looks like at least most of the purlins are still on the building, and the roof peeled off. Was it just the first purlin that ripped out of the trusses? Was the roof attached to the purlins with screws, roofing nails, or scrails?

Correct, most of the purlins are still on the trusses because the metal wasn't attached to those purlins. It looks like each pitch of the roof only had attachment points to 5 purlins. Each pitch was probably 18-20' long I'm guessing? Roof was attached to purlins with self taping screws, but the purlins were attached to trusses with 3" nails.

Cobra5150 · Nov 27, 2019

tycoonbob said:
Aren't hurricane straps (and similar fasteners) used to mount the trusses to the posts/top plate? Trusses seem just fine; it's the purlins that pulled out of the trusses that failed.

That's because the roof let go. If the purlins had been attached better it may have pulled the trusses off. With this level of questionable build I would hire an independent engineer to examine the rest of the structure. In one of your photos it appears at least one of the main poles shifted in the ground.

tycoonbob · Nov 27, 2019

Cobra5150 said:
Say no more that is all totally on the builder. It's no surprise that thing came off like it did.

Unfortunately that's the conclusion I came to. I just want to make sure it's done right this time around.

jbwilkins said:
Nails should be installed perpendicular to the load. If he’d toenailed the purlins they probably would have faired batter in an uplift situation.

If he’s going back with nails then hurricane ties are in order.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Purlins were not toenailed into the trusses. Use a nail gun, and popped it straight in. That's why they were so easy to just pull right out.
Hurricane ties...aren't those for attaching trusses to the posts/top plate? I can always add some of those myself after the fact, but I don't think that would have helped anything. Hurricane ties from the trusses to the purlins on the other hand, that would have helped a lot.

walrus said:
Sorry that happened to you. Doesn't look like roof was attached very well. Simpson Strong ties would certainly help

Ties for purlins to trusses? If so, I agree...that would have been very helpful.

Cobra5150 said:
That's because the roof let go. If the purlins had been attached better it may have pulled the trusses off. With this level of questionable build I would hire an independent engineer to examine the rest of the structure. In one of your photos it appears at least one of the main poles shifted in the ground.

You are correct...unfortunately the 2 posts between the overhead door openings did push inward some, causing a noticeable bow in some of the trusses. I've sent pictures and info to the contractor, and he seems to think it's fixable. A third party engineer would be a good idea.

Cobra5150 · Nov 27, 2019

tycoonbob said:
Unfortunately that's the conclusion I came to. I just want to make sure it's done right this time around.

It will be much easier to add the hurricane straps without the roof in place. Are there any building codes, permits or inspections in your location.

dutchgray · Nov 27, 2019

It doesn't look like there is any bracing in the trusses that would prevent them from racking, so it looks like it was entirely relying on the roof steel for sheer resistance, which is not something I personally like to see as it just helps the roof screws to work loose and leak. When trusses came into use here it was quite common for house roofs to rack over and have to be re done, we learned to add much more bracing than was initially used, we copied how America was installing the trusses and it didn't work for us but we don't sheath them with ply or osb so extra bracing was needed.
Most of the purlins are still on which would point to roof fastner failure when would either mean the wrong fastener or not enough of them or both, an inspection of the roof should show how it came apart.

In the video it didn't even look like it was that windy, the trees were barely wobbling, but it could have been something that tte camera doesn't pick up on well. I don't think it would have survived a good storm even with closed doors and the floor done.

472scout · Nov 27, 2019

There looks to be a lot of purlins that didn't rip off? So maybe you have more than one issue going on. Get up there and see if you have a bunch of pulled or sheared roof screws. Also post up a picture of the nails that were used. They should be coated ring shank nails and Maze brand is the one to go with.

I would pay if necessary another pole barn company to come out and do a top to bottom inspection and to verify the poles had the correct pressure treatment. UC-4B. No telling how many corners were cut by your builder.

edit: looked at the other pictures and your posts are CCA-C .6 so you are good to go there.

JoeMcGov · Nov 27, 2019

Where are the building manufacturer's shop drawings for this structure? There should be details, from the manufacturer, for every single type of connection. And then there should be a clear layout for where every type of connection it to occur.

Do you have shop drawings for your building? Perhaps not since it looks like all of the trust is in the builder. So tell him you want to see the shop drawings for your building. I would hope/expect to see a set of shop drawings that are specific to your building. This might be indicated on said shop drawings with a reference such as: The Jim Johnson residence pole barn. And then a current date somewhere.

I'm really suspecting that the roof wasn't completely finish installed. That there were more connections and details to be done. And you unfortunately got zing'd with an unexpected wind storm.

brewchief · Nov 27, 2019

The purlins should have had at least 2 nails at each connection to the trusses.

Every barn I've been involved in has had the roof steel screwed into every purlin.

Had those two things happened I would bet the roof would still be in place. If either one had been done the roof would probably stayed.

I wonder if the purlins were simply tacked in place when setting the trusses and nobody went back and nailed everything off properly.

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Dustball · Nov 27, 2019

Those posts on the front side are only 2-3 feet deep into the ground. The ones on the endwall are even less since the pictures show that they are a couple of feet higher than the sidewalls. The shallow depth combined with probably poor compaction means that the posts aren't very stable.

randydupree · Nov 27, 2019

I had 3 pole barns in the path og Hurricane Michael.
2 were 10 miles from the eye near Mexico beach fl.
Those 2 were roofs only,24x48 feet and 14 feet to the eve.
Both of those survived with no issues,but every home around them was blown flat.
Both buildings were screwed,not a nail in any part of them.

The 3rd building was 100 miles north,we had cat 3 winds here,this building is 50x50 and 14feet at the eves.
All screwed,not a nail in it,we also bolted things together with big bolts and flat washers,and we X braced everywhere we could with 2x1/8th flatbar,bolted to the posts.

Hurricane straps on all 3 buildings and the straps were screwed into place.
all 3 buildings survived with no damage.

But,another building i have is 100x80 feet,28 feet at the eves.
the tin roog was screwed to the purlins,the purlins were nailed with 2 nails every 4 feet on an existing wood roof.
That whole roof blew off in the same storm,every purlin and the entire tin roof was hung in the big trees in the backyard.
along with 4 big air conditioning units and 12 solar panels 4x10 feet in size.

If those purlins had been screwed in place the roof would have stayed put.
Screws are the real deal.
I was in the big building when the roof blew off.

3rdgendslmech · Nov 27, 2019

That's wild.....shy of some of the tall grass blowing, you never would have guessed thing wind was blowing that hard. You're wrangling a piece of plastic it looks like....not moving, none of the trees are moving.....yet all at once the whole roofing system gone. I'm pretty sure I nailed 2 nails everwhere a purlin met the truss

rustyjames · Nov 27, 2019

I have to question the building practices of the contractor. I don't get why they left the grade so low for one thing. That should have been done first as it's quite difficult to fill and compact around the building with good results. Not to mention it's 10 times easier and faster to bring the grade up before erecting.
Seeing that alone questions the rest of the work.
A lot of people are mentioning hurricane straps, they wouldn't have done diddly in this case. I don't recall ever seeing purlins strapped to trusses or rafters.

Cobra5150 · Nov 27, 2019

JoeMcGov said:
Where are the building manufacturer's shop drawings for this structure? ...

randydupree said:
I had 3 pole barns in the path og Hurricane Michael.
2 were 10 miles from the eye near Mexico beach fl.
Those 2 were roofs only,24x48 feet and 14 feet to the eve.
Both of those survived with no issues,but every home around them was blown flat.
Both buildings were screwed,not a nail in any part of them.

....

Probably the best two responses in the entire thread. I'm going out on a limb here and guessing there are no plans or permits but this is "the way I've always done it." Couple that with a crew ready to get the job done and get home and you have this. Pure speculation on my part but please do keep the thread updated as it unfolds.

koditten · Nov 27, 2019

I'm thinking take the insurance money and have a shingled roof installed.

tinysparky · Nov 27, 2019

What did the engineering drawings call for? And was it assembled as such?

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mitusa · Nov 27, 2019

Are you sure he didn't just put a few screws in the metal to hold the roof on until he could come back and finish putting the rest in.....such as he had a nice still day to hang metal and wanted to put it up while he had good weather????

There looks to be 2x4 purlins every two feet on the trusses and they stayed on the building. The metal just pulled away from the purlins. 20 foot length metal that is 3 foot wide......purlins every two feet....ag panel or r panel metal?....rough guess is there should have been 33-44 screws per sheet of metal. It doesn't look like there were many screws in the metal, if there was, it probably would've tore the metal up instead of it leaving as one whole roof.

ard · Nov 27, 2019

Its why I like (a) engineered buildings and (2) built to code..... there is a reason pole barns are cheap.

Did the foundation pull out between the two doors??????

Just lost the roof to my brand new pole building...Advice for the rebuild?

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