Building with Reclaimed Heritage Brick (and Demolishing a House)

Mr. 360 · Feb 21, 2020

I have no garage at my current house, but I have a few potential opportunities locally where some old (late 1800's) houses are slated for demolition to make way for housing development. I have been in contact with the town building department who has approved the use of reclaimed brick, and have leads on the houses through the local heritage committee. I would hate to see these local pieces of history end up in the landfill. I live in a small town in Clarington, Ontario, so old farmhouses are fairly common.

Does anyone have experience demolishing a house, or better yet, salvaging just the brick exterior? I am a bit at a loss as to the next step. I am supposing the developer won't be of any help, but I've heard that demolition contractors might let me at it for a small fee, and they save on dumping costs. I might also try contacting a few members of the heritage committee. They are volunteer, so they might care about someone trying to preserve the history.

I'm ok with trucking the materials home, but getting them off the house seems hard to figure out approval for. Incidentally, anybody in the east Durham region interested in salvaging a historic house

?

I figure from my own pictures that it is a double wythe flemish-bond wall. Not sure if that means no interior framing. I have attached a sketch of what I have in mind for my finished shop, around 18x24.

View media item 101069

kd3pc · Feb 21, 2020

There is a ton of work to remove the brick and stack them. Then cleaning them at one end or the other. Then transporting them. They are actually quite fragile, which means most of the handling is by hand. They are quite heavy and will wear your hands and arms out quickly.

Depending on how solid the houses are, simply chiseling the mortar and then pulling them down will be quite easy. If the homes are pointed well and maintained, then you will be drilling every 4th layer of mortar and then a bit more force to topple them. Some will break and a few will like powder out.

A labor of love, perhaps...certainly not economical in the world of today.

chaosracing · Feb 21, 2020

As mentioned above, its very labor intensive. Plus you have to find out how much brick your going to need, with at least a 20% extra for breakage and what not. You almost have to take them down brick by brick. And depending on the type of brick, you might be sucessfull and not break many, or wind up breaking about half of what you take down.

Add into the equation that a demo crontractor is probably only figuring to spend a few days on each house. They must remediate any hazardous materials (lead, aesbestos) probably try to strip out anything of value then either use a dozer or excavator to teardown the rest. Whats sad is a good amount of the lumber in that house could be reused because its more than likely old growth, even the framing.

If you do wind up salvaging the brick, look for old plastic 275 gal totes with cages, take the tote out of the cage and use plywood (or whatever) to keep the bricks inside the cage. Then you just need a loader and trailer to haul away and then you have storage till your ready to re use.

NORTON'S SHOP · Feb 21, 2020

If you sketched that drawing, you have a skill that I wish I had.

Bondo · Feb 21, 2020

but I've heard that demolition contractors might let me at it for a small fee, and they save on dumping costs.

Ayuh,..... Yer best shot at gettin' the contractor to go along with yer plan is,.....
In the demo process, sorting the bricks from wood can be done, as they're torn down,....

Find a spot, somewhere near by the demo-site where several truck loads of bricks can be dropped,......
Then you can go there, 'n chisel off the old mortar, stack the bricks on pallets, 'n move 'em to where yer gonna build,.....
After that, you'll of course have to clean up the old broken bricks, 'n mortar from the transfer site,.....
This way, you can work at yer own pace, without slowin' down the contractor,....

No way yer gonna be allowed to tear the bricks off the buildings,.....
Just the insurance needed to be on-site will put a stop to that,......

Mr. 360 · Feb 21, 2020

All good points, guys. I live only a few minutes away from the site, so I had figured on just filling a trailer and piling them at my place. I dont have a bobcat or forklift so i cant move pallets, but i could just pile them on site and stack after. I figured it would be a large waste/usable ratio, but I know of about 5 sites so perhaps i could amass what i need over time (somewhere in the neighbourhood of 10,000 bricks, which seems daunting, but i have no schedule or inspection deadlines currently). I will likely leave it alone if the roof is supported by the brick, instead of a frame.

I appreciate the input. Im sure if it was easy lots of people would do it. At any rate, it doesnt hurt to follow it and see what happens. Im not out anything but my time.

And thanks Norton, I did draw it. I doodle lots in my notebook, its fun!

matt_i · Feb 21, 2020

That's an impressive sketch, to start with!

In a small town things might roll differently but usually demo is about speed so the contractor can fit more jobs in. Then again you might find a point where the contractor can topple a building flat enough for you to go picking thru it before they load it all out. That said you might not get "every brick" as some would naturally fracture.

My only concern about the full brick house is that it could be quite cold, concrete has an R-value of around 1 and that is indeed low, with a lot of mass. If you could somehow "split" the brick with an inner core like wood framing or pink foam and figure out how to structurally tie thru it with metal (etc) [think of ICF but in reverse with the stone out and the insulation center] then you could get the best of both worlds: the timeless charm of the brick on both sides but more modern insulation performance.

ZRX61 · Feb 21, 2020

I've done this a couple of times. You're gonna get fit or crippled.

Marctrees · Feb 21, 2020

I would think old brickwork usable yield and difficulty of mortar removal would vary wildly job to job.

Only a guess until you actually start and work this particular job a few hours.

If successful, would be a beautiful Shop.

Have you Googled like maybe "Salvage brick" and similar ?

Don't forget youtube videos.

Marc

Marctrees · Feb 21, 2020

Some ideas - https://www.finehomebuilding.com/forum/method-to-salvage-brick

Marc

Toolfool · Feb 21, 2020

If you do choose to take on this project, I will be the first in line subscribed to follow along and applaud you all the way. :beer:

ZRX61 · Feb 21, 2020

Marctrees said:
I would think old brickwork usable yield and difficulty of mortar removal would vary wildly job to job.

The process is fairly simple. Sit down, get comfortable, use a 3lb club hammer & a bolster chisel with a *3in blade.
Don't discard 1/2 bricks.

*If the mortar is soft you can use a 4in, if it's hard might need a 2in version.

Varty Yo · Feb 21, 2020

Just go with a single wythe wall. Wood frame it then just do a veneer the cost will be expensive to have a decent bricklayer relay the double wythe wall. In Ont. they are paying $1.25 per brick laid and are short of guys.

Mr. 360 · Feb 22, 2020

Marctrees said:
I would think old brickwork usable yield and difficulty of mortar removal would vary wildly job to job.

Only a guess until you actually start and work this particular job a few hours.

If successful, would be a beautiful Shop.

Have you Googled like maybe "Salvage brick" and similar ?

Don't forget youtube videos.

Marc

I have definitely been researching this off and on for a few years now, though ive never been close to old places slated for demolition. I have only mentioned the one, but there are actually 4 old homes locally that are being raised for development. The other 3 are all badly stucco’d though. All are 1800’s brick farmhouses, and 2 of them are within a 5 minute walk of my place.

Ive got all the tools and time for doing this, and around here these developments seem to take a few years. I hear everyone on the liability issues and whatnot, but i figure its worth a shot.

The house has been vacant a year or so. There is also a steel and wood drive shed and a huge pile of hewn beams from a big barn they removed a year or so ago. It’s such a shame really. Its a beautiful house and in good shape.

I had kicked around building as a cavity wall with ridgid insulation between, but that would partly depend on what brick I could source. If its all flemish bond, i would have less clean face brick, and would likely just rebuild as a double wythe. I dont intend to heat it all winter, just with a woodstove while im in there. Clean heritage brick goes for 1.50 each around here, so thats out of the question. I would also plan on laying the brick myself, using a soft lime/sand mixture.

Basically, im game for everything, except figuring out how to get permission to salvage the brick off the house.

View media item 101071

dutchgray · Feb 22, 2020

If its built with lime mortar cleaning the bricks is usually pretty easy, higher up on the building is easier to clean as well, I have done thousands in my time, even pressure washed 16,000 reclaimed bricks for internal use once. The demo contractor will push the building into a heap and If you're lucky let you pick the bricks out, here in the UK reclaimed bricks are worth good money and any desirable brick you are not getting for free.
Don't build it solid Flemish bond, build it a single thickness using halfs to get the Flemish look, insulate behind and have internal structure to hold up the roof, timber or concrete block work. Do they have stainless steel cavity wall ties in the USA, that we use to tie two masonry wall skins to each other?

yeldogt · Feb 22, 2020

Most times the demo is done quickly .. unless there is a local need -- used bricks don't have a huge market. It too expensive for the demo contractor to play around -- they want it gone.

If by some chance you are able to get them to pile them some place -- it takes forever. It's often cheaper and easier to use new bricks.

I have done it twice -- both with historic buildings. A local demo company had piles of them. Some they would let you work on others it was only buy after they cleaned.

It's really time consuming .. on a new structure they can only be used for facing --with a masonry block wall behind of proper wood framed building

ratdoggy · Feb 22, 2020

It was bad enough digging a couple hundred bricks out of the ground at my SIL's house to recycle for a small patio...
She used them as a garden border..
It gets old really quick

Jayman17 · Feb 22, 2020

Mr360, did you move to a new place without a shop or are you planning on building a second shop at your place? I was following your other thread but haven't checked in in awhile? Still doing those awesome sketches. :thumbup:

Jay

Edit, I checked your other thread and am now up to speed, congrats on the move and good luck with the brick shop. That will be fun to follow.

wake74 · Feb 22, 2020

Mr. 360 said:
And thanks Norton, I did draw it. I doodle lots in my notebook, its fun!

Well you "doodle" better than I bet 3/4 of the architects that I work with, who are mostly dependent upon hitting the "render" button on the computer nowadays. (Okay, it's not quite that simple but you get the point). Well done!

dw1 · Feb 22, 2020

I (along with my wife, youngest daughter and my buddy) tore down 2 stone chimneys on a 125 Y.O. house that I was going to tear down, it took us 8 hours and we had a trackhoe excavator, very labor intensive but I wanted to save the stone. I would say your biggest issue would be to stay ahead of the demo contractor, as soon as they can use you as the hold up...…. Could you find/rent someone with a dump truck, load the bricks up and dump them on your lot out of the way, or even a roll off dumpster, load the brick in it and dump on your lot? then you can clean and stack on pallets at your convenience. Its a lot of work but will be worth it in the end, my youngest (26) still belly aches about it, our stones were anywhere between 10-50#'s and we had about 40 tons of it.

Good Luck

Mr. 360 · Feb 22, 2020

Im not too worried on the cleaning time. I have the time and a spot to store them. I have no concrete timeline for any building as of yet. Id wait for that until after id sourced the brick. I did get approval in writing from the Chief Building Official on using just reclaimed brick as a double wythe, with no secondary internal structure. The largest i would go is 18X24, so still relatively small compared to some places i see here (still 10,000 bricks though, which yes, feels daunting). However, i don’t forsee moving from this house for a long time, so I’m more willing to put in the effort than my last house. While it is certainly slower and much more labour intensive than a stick built structure, it would be the top of the pile for me in terms of desirable workspaces. Old brick, and loads of old wood, basically a carbon copy of a 1900 machine shop. Time will tell.

I wont even get into the fact that ive toyed with the notion of an inspection pit, or even a full basement with a framed main floor and a loft... at this point i’m just letting myself dream a bit.

Wake, thanks for the compliment. I do enjoy drawing, much more than that render button.

Mr. 360 · Feb 22, 2020

dw1 said:
I (along with my wife, youngest daughter and my buddy) tore down 2 stone chimneys on a 125 Y.O. house that I was going to tear down, it took us 8 hours and we had a trackhoe excavator, very labor intensive but I wanted to save the stone. I would say your biggest issue would be to stay ahead of the demo contractor, as soon as they can use you as the hold up...…. Could you find/rent someone with a dump truck, load the bricks up and dump them on your lot out of the way, or even a roll off dumpster, load the brick in it and dump on your lot? then you can clean and stack on pallets at your convenience. Its a lot of work but will be worth it in the end, my youngest (26) still belly aches about it, our stones were anywhere between 10-50#'s and we had about 40 tons of it.

Good Luck

Thats a good idea. I had thought about stacking everything on pallets on site and renting a local flatbed with outdoor forklift to drop everything in my driveway. Currently i dont think this house is up for demo too soon. The planning is still in early stages. However the other local houses might be under the gun sooner.

Two Speed · Feb 23, 2020

Stacking and palleting and leaving it on site = easy pickings for theives. Old brick around here is money, one place I was working at where an old brick building got razed there where a couple of the demo guys whos sole purpose was chip mortar and pallet the bricks, and haul them away the same day to a safe location. If there is any hint of historical preservation in your area and surrounding area, those old bricks are probably gold to the demo guy.

Mr. 360 · Feb 25, 2020

Two Speed said:
Stacking and palleting and leaving it on site = easy pickings for theives. Old brick around here is money, one place I was working at where an old brick building got razed there where a couple of the demo guys whos sole purpose was chip mortar and pallet the bricks, and haul them away the same day to a safe location. If there is any hint of historical preservation in your area and surrounding area, those old bricks are probably gold to the demo guy.

That's quite possible. I haven't yet found if anyone has spoken for them/bought them. There is a large garage/shop on the site I had thought about storing them in, but likely I'd try to remove what i'd salvaged same day, like you say. I'm not sure if old brick demand has slowed out here. some local places don't stock what they used to. That said, the going rate is $1.50 each, which would be about $15,000 in my case. I can't swing that. even veneer is expensive. I think my next step is to contact the local heritage committee and see if they have any insight.

chstrumpetdude · Feb 25, 2020

I did this in my city a few times.

The demo guys want to clear it ASAP. I saw that it takes about 3 days to tear down and load into dump trucks.

What I did was I asked the dude running the machine and worked when he wasn't working and threw whatever I could into the truck and cleaned them at home. It worked particularly well if they started on a Wednesday or Thursday because they typically don't work on weekends and give more daylight work hours.

They also don't give a care about stone and brick because it makes the trucks heavier and more expensive to dump in a landfill unless they own one.

That mortar used in pre 1930 houses is so soft. You will have no problem getting them 100% clean.

mattrob · Feb 25, 2020

The sketch is a work of art in itself. Amazing how you made the building come alive. The imagination and skill placed in that rendering is remarkable.
Go for it! Consider hiring out some cheap labor to help you and save on your back!

As mentioned, it would truly be a labor of love and something to be admired for decades more.

Mr. 360 · Feb 25, 2020

chstrumpetdude said:
I did this in my city a few times.

The demo guys want to clear it ASAP. I saw that it takes about 3 days to tear down and load into dump trucks.

What I did was I asked the dude running the machine and worked when he wasn't working and threw whatever I could into the truck and cleaned them at home. It worked particularly well if they started on a Wednesday or Thursday because they typically don't work on weekends and give more daylight work hours.

They also don't give a care about stone and brick because it makes the trucks heavier and more expensive to dump in a landfill unless they own one.

That mortar used in pre 1930 houses is so soft. You will have no problem getting them 100% clean.

I like your attitude

I have figured they should save about $5000 on dumping fees if it’s $200 a ton. I think that would be an incentive for them to let it go. It would mean the yeild would drop, but I think I know of 5-6 brick places around here now that are coming down soon, so perhaps between the group i could source enough.

mattrob said:
The sketch is a work of art in itself. Amazing how you made the building come alive. The imagination and skill placed in that rendering is remarkable.
Go for it! Consider hiring out some cheap labor to help you and save on your back!

As mentioned, it would truly be a labor of love and something to be admired for decades more.

Thanks very much! I do think old brick/lumber/windows would give a warmth to the place that you just cant replicate.

southalabama · Feb 25, 2020

As a teen dad salvaged some brick to match the house and built a wall to tie into the garage. It’s hard work.

Recycled brick looks great. Labor intensive.

rockettgpw · Feb 26, 2020

Hi Mr 360, I thought you might like to see my efforts with reclaimed bricks.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=368174

MBfreak · Feb 27, 2020

Mr 360.
Kudos.
Go for it, with your perseverance it will be beautiful, few people will have a building that beautiful.
With luck, it will be quite easy to clean the bricks. Believe the mortar to be the "crumbling" type ( lime?)
I lived in a 1971 house for 25 years, built by a contractor for himself. Windows and doors were made in wood shop by an old carpenter who selected every piece of wood and made a wonderful job. Most everybody with similar houses replaced doors and windows with modern ( poor quality wood) stuff.
I spent 4 months removing, cleaning , oiling, reglazing and repainting all. A friend who is a house painter advised me.
And it became nice. We also got a very good price when we sold the house 3 years ago, the original perfectly restored doors and windows upped the price we got by 10 % compared to similar houses.
So apart from you building a beautiful building it will increase the value of your property for the people who value and can afford craftmanship!

Best of luck

Ola

Mr. 360 · Mar 4, 2020

Thanks for the comments, guys! Through the local heritage committee I did end up getting put in touch with the Senior Project Manager at the developer that owns the property. They asked what I wanted from the house and how I intend to remove it. So, I have my proposal in and we'll see what happens. In the end, it may end up just being too much for one guy to take on, but it's cost me nothing (except time) to get to this point, so at least I'll have given it a shot if it doesn't pan. I don't have friends or relatives that would be up for this sort of thing, either, so I would be a one man wrecking crew likely

Denwood · Mar 4, 2020

On our brick chimney demo, I found an air chisel noisy..but it made very short work of liberating the bricks from mortar. Your challenge after will be cleaning the brick. My dad and I built a 32x32 2 story garage from a reclaimed older house. I got very good with this tool:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Crescent-19-in-Forged-Alloy-Nail-Puller-56/203984930

It was pretty much a summer of work to disassemble and transport materials.

Mr. 360 · Mar 9, 2020

Denwood said:
On our brick chimney demo, I found an air chisel noisy..but it made very short work of liberating the bricks from mortar. Your challenge after will be cleaning the brick. My dad and I built a 32x32 2 story garage from a reclaimed older house. I got very good with this tool:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Crescent-19-in-Forged-Alloy-Nail-Puller-56/203984930

It was pretty much a summer of work to disassemble and transport materials.

That's a huge garage! My plans feel way more subdued at 18x22 single storey or thereabouts.

I did get word back from the developer that owns the house. They liked my project idea and would like to see the materials saved. The trick for them would just be coordinating my salvage with the demolition. They also have no idea if it's single or double wythe, and want to know how I would confirm that so they would know how to proceed. That should be easy. Measure in a door jamb, open a hole in the wall, knock out a brick, etc. There's lots of ways.

I am already sensing the vast amount of work if I was to do this.... They have not mentioned a cost to the materials though., I think they're just happy to have them saved...

Jayman17 · Oct 1, 2021

Thought I would bump this thread and try to get an update from the op. Did you ever take on this project?

Jay

ScottsGT · Oct 1, 2021

Summer of 1976 or 1977 I was 13 or 14. We tore down a double bricked wall and a utility room built of brick inside our carport for an addition onto the house. Brick by brick. I spent the entire summer cleaning said bricks of all mortar. These were the old bricks before they were made with the 3 holes in them. House was built sometime in the early '50's. Dad's brick mason needed them to blend with the new bricks so the addition would not stand out. It worked out great. But to this day I still have that long 1/2" Craftsman chisel in my toolbox. Every time I open my box and see it memories of sweating over a brick pile flash back in my head.
He also brought home a 1' square box full of bent nails, a 12" section of rail road track and a new hammer and told me to get to work. What burned my *** up more was Dad tossed them all out after I straightened them and he found out how easy they were to bend again. I wish I still had that piece of RR track. Then again, it would dig up all kinds of bad emotions again every time I looked at it.
Another thing that *****? The new owners painted all the bricks. So all that work is now moot.

nadogail · Oct 1, 2021

A vibrating multi tool will be your friend.

Al Borland · Oct 1, 2021

Depends on the mortar. There is a trick/skillset to "un-buttering" bricks. A good worker might be able to salvage 80-90% if the bricks are sound. A cracked brick usually won't survive. Once you get going, you will find the sweet spot - right combination of angle and force to do the job. Worked as mason's helper/apprentice many years ago and did too many infills or repairs with salvaged brick and trying to match mortar to ever want to do it again.

Stuart in MN · Oct 1, 2021

Jayman17 said:
Thought I would bump this thread and try to get an update from the op. Did you ever take on this project?

Jay

He hasn't been here since May 21...

Uncle murph · Oct 1, 2021

Mr. 360 said:
I have no garage at my current house, but I have a few potential opportunities locally where some old (late 1800's) houses are slated for demolition to make way for housing development. I have been in contact with the town building department who has approved the use of reclaimed brick, and have leads on the houses through the local heritage committee. I would hate to see these local pieces of history end up in the landfill. I live in a small town in Clarington, Ontario, so old farmhouses are fairly common.

Does anyone have experience demolishing a house, or better yet, salvaging just the brick exterior? I am a bit at a loss as to the next step. I am supposing the developer won't be of any help, but I've heard that demolition contractors might let me at it for a small fee, and they save on dumping costs. I might also try contacting a few members of the heritage committee. They are volunteer, so they might care about someone trying to preserve the history.

I'm ok with trucking the materials home, but getting them off the house seems hard to figure out approval for. Incidentally, anybody in the east Durham region interested in salvaging a historic house ?

I figure from my own pictures that it is a double wythe flemish-bond wall. Not sure if that means no interior framing. I have attached a sketch of what I have in mind for my finished shop, around 18x24.

View media item 101069

Speaking as a mason of almost 40years and having salvaged my share of brick and block,the best thing you can do is let the contractor push the building over,you will find that most brick structures will quite literally disassemble into thousands of individual bricks Or at least weaken the joints so that a simple tap with hammer will finish separating them.If the brick are so soft that they don’t survive,you’d be wise to pass on them anyhow.Be aware that you are probably going to need something north of 20k brick to build any kind of a useful structure.

kbs2244 · Oct 1, 2021

to me "labor intensive" means it is time to visit the local high school and find out if they have student in need of a job
I had an entire football team digging ditched on one project

you will need to keep them at ground level for insurance reasons

I would think of using a bricklayer’s hammer for the mortar
it has a chisel as well as a hammer face

Building with Reclaimed Heritage Brick (and Demolishing a House)

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

New member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

MEMBER EMERITUS

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member