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HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too.

drivesitfar

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HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too.

ALL: i've got more than a few pieces of cedar and other boards to plane and straighten out the edges and wondered if any of you might have tips or tricks to offer?

what brands and machines do you like or ones you don't like?

i've got a 12 inch Dewalt 735 planer for most of the flat surfaces of my cedar pile and this 6 inch Jet Joiner for the edges. i've got more than a few hand planes and hand power planers so would like to know when those might be more useful.

i'm looking at buying a used Grizzly 15 inch planer and wondering if getting new blades for it or the new spiral type cutters might be a better investment to give a better quality finish.

of course there are a lot of good YOUTUBE videos which are very helpful, but having us talk about our successes, failures and issues might add to our learning.

here's a few pictures of some of my planers and my Jet joiner and some of my cedar that came from a local mill near me.

anybody want to talk planers and joiners please do as I learn and see how to become a woodworker and not so much a wood BUTCHER.
 

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EZ_Garage

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

I run a Grizzly 20" 4 post planer in my shop to accompany a Grizzly 8" jointer. Both are equipped with indexable carbide spiral cutterheads instead of a traditional HSS straight knife cutterheads. These "Byrd" style cutterheads are beneficial in a lot of different ways but understand that a straight knife cutterhead gets the job done. Some examples of the benefits: quieter operation, better dust collection, less tear-out, less time adjusting/setting up knives, etc. Each side of the 4 sided carbide insert when rotated to be put into service will stay sharp the equivalent of 8-10 HSS knife edges. So, a hobby shop that sharpens or replaces their HSS knives once a year would be looking at potentially getting as many as 40 years out of all the sides that come on a carbide spiral cutterhead. Couple that with the fact that once your machine is set-up for that cutterhead there will be minimal adjustments ever needed on that machine. Looking at that you can see that you reduce your ongoing maintenance cost of sharpening/replacing knives as well as the time consuming process of setting up machines after knife changes. I view the "byrd" style cutterheads as a luxury upgrade item that for me are well worth the heavy initial investment.

Machine dimensioning lumber is not a complicated process with well tuned machines. Understand that jointers put a straight edge/face on material and a planer makes surface parallel with one another. With that being said there is a natural progression of making one face or edge of the material straight on the jointer and then going to the planer to surface the opposite face parallel or to the tablesaw to make the other edge parallel.

I use hand tools in woodworking to supplement my ww machines. There are times that grabbing a hand plane, chisel, scraper etc. is the correct/easiest way to get something done. For me that typically isn't in the beginning stages of a project when I use a machine (planer/jointer) to dimension my material. There are other that gravitate towards using hand tools for almost all of their woodworking, there are other forums dedicated to those folks that are better equipped to answer question than me.


I'm out of time now but I hope that helps some. I will come back to see how this discussion progresses and hope others will chime in.
 

Downwindtracker 2

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

Spiral blades take more power. A 8"jointer that will get by with a 1 1/2hp will need a 3hp. They are worth it though.
 

matt_i

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

What do you plan to make? I wouldn't want to start surfacing wood and then let it set around as it could get all dog-legged (warped) requiring more machining later. Especially if outdoors to the whims of Mother Nature, your stack(s) seem like they are outside?

What kind of table saw do you have...I regard that as another key component in the woodshop.
 

raskal

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

I was so worried that this thread was going to be about hand planes and jointing. I have no skills there

However, turning on a power switch is right in my wheelhouse
 
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drivesitfar

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

Cobbler: I thought CEDAR was soft and would be easy on blades and easy to plane so i'd like to hear more about what you and others have to say about that and other wood types.

EZ: thanks for the positive post and i'm hearing that the spiral heads are a great investment if you plan on using the plane a lot and for many years.

I hope to read and learn more from your posts as you have time to post more and maybe with pictures too.

DT: sounds like spiral cutters are the way to go and I (we) just need a bit of TIM ALLEN to rewire and add a V8 so to speak to our quality tools. I'd also like to hear what others have to say about that cause from what i've seen and read I didn't hear that more power was necessary.

Matt: the cedar I have stacked outside that has been drying for over a year in my backyard since i got it wet from the mill will be fencing and a deck. as soon as I plane it i'm not certain whether I'll install it before or after staining.

I was also hearing that maybe sanding the deck after it's laid/installed that might be a good idea. the 2x6's i have are 8 to 16 foot of NO KNOT 2nd or 3rd growth red cedar. any ideas are welcome on how to make it not only look great, but also for longevity cause i'm replacing a deck I built 28 years ago and I'd love not to repair/rebuild another one here.

Rask: i'm not opposed to doing hand planing if that would make a better finished project, but for these two projects i'm doing most of the work will be with power tools. I hope you maybe learn a few things like I plan to.

ALL: while I don't want to fill up the thread with YouTube videos cause i'd rather have member's comments and pictures there are a few that might help others and remind me of their value as a learning tool.

here's JAY'S (he does great videos) little test changing out the regular blades in his Dewalt DW735 planer with spiral heads and he mentions like EZ did that the cutters on the spiral heads will last quite a bit longer.

hope you are all having a great weekend.
 

The Cobbler

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

Cobbler: I thought CEDAR was soft and would be easy on blades and easy to plane so i'd like to hear more about what you and others have to say about that and other wood types.

E.....

I recall hearing that the resin in the wood is hard on HSS blades & you need carbide for planing cedar.
A quick search, I see this https://www.finehomebuilding.com/forum/problem-planing-cedar
 
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drivesitfar

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

Cobbler: thanks for looking up that thread, but I think the reason his blades were dulling quickly was his cedar already had stain on it. i've heard planing stained or painted wood will really dull planer blades quickly so that falls in line with this.

OR maybe cedar will dull planer blades quickly so I'll let you know.

ALL: anybody else have pictures of their planers or joiners and some tips on how to best use them please post them up.

i've got a new to me old Rockwell shaper and just determining which way the grain on the wood runs is a challenge to me. anybody have their methods or thinking on how to tell which way the grain or fiber runs and which way to run through their machines?

thanks in advance
 

American Locomotive

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

A friend of mine has a new Grizzly jointer and planer. He has the spiral carbide cutters on both and loves them. The surface finish is amazing.

Make sure you get the rubber handled "pucks" for your planer, which let you grip the wood with minimal down-pressure.
 

Downwindtracker 2

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

They would say cedar grows so fast it pulls up sand. It's kind of true, but all wood has silica, but I guess cedar has more. It does dull edges.
 

RTM

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

I have the 733 planer, and love it. A friend had the 735, and it’s having a feed problem he can’t decipher yet.

I’m far from an expert, but here’s my method. I’m more of a hand tool guy, so the planer is rough stock prep for me, not final. I prep all boards, then cut to shape.

Snipe is the biggest problem with these small planers, making sure to keep the away end of the board at the correct level is key to a smooth board. I’ve only done a small amount of cedar, so I don’t know about abrasiveness. I do know that knots are a blade killer, even redwood knots will nick your blades.

I start my power planing by measuring for the thickest spot in any of the boards, with a simple spring outside caliper, I don’t care about the number, just the worst board. Then I pass all of them through at each setting, whether it’s cutting or not, making sure to keep the grain oriented the same way all the way through the stack. (Of course, I’m not building a fence or deck, just furniture, so smaller volume).

I can take heavy cuts at first, as I am only cutting a little bit of each board, the high spots. As I start cutting a bit more, I reduce the depth of cut, to reduce the risk of tear out. My final passes are less than 1/64”, a quarter turn or less.

If you are building a fence, maybe you want to leave it a bit rougher, but not sure you can get a decent look only partially planing. If you bought it green, a bandsaw might be the better answer.

More later as others chime in.
 

neophyte

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

Cobbler: I thought CEDAR was soft and would be easy on blades and easy to plane so i'd like to hear more about what you and others have to say about that and other wood types.

EZ: thanks for the positive post and i'm hearing that the spiral heads are a great investment if you plan on using the plane a lot and for many years.

I hope to read and learn more from your posts as you have time to post more and maybe with pictures too.

DT: sounds like spiral cutters are the way to go and I (we) just need a bit of TIM ALLEN to rewire and add a V8 so to speak to our quality tools. I'd also like to hear what others have to say about that cause from what i've seen and read I didn't hear that more power was necessary.

Matt: the cedar I have stacked outside that has been drying for over a year in my backyard since i got it wet from the mill will be fencing and a deck. as soon as I plane it i'm not certain whether I'll install it before or after staining.

I was also hearing that maybe sanding the deck after it's laid/installed that might be a good idea. the 2x6's i have are 8 to 16 foot of NO KNOT 2nd or 3rd growth red cedar. any ideas are welcome on how to make it not only look great, but also for longevity cause i'm replacing a deck I built 28 years ago and I'd love not to repair/rebuild another one here.

Rask: i'm not opposed to doing hand planing if that would make a better finished project, but for these two projects i'm doing most of the work will be with power tools. I hope you maybe learn a few things like I plan to.

ALL: while I don't want to fill up the thread with YouTube videos cause i'd rather have member's comments and pictures there are a few that might help others and remind me of their value as a learning tool.

here's JAY'S (he does great videos) little test changing out the regular blades in his Dewalt DW735 planer with spiral heads and he mentions like EZ did that the cutters on the spiral heads will last quite a bit longer.

hope you are all having a great weekend.

Cedar, which in most cases in the USA is really a Species of Cyprus, has a few issues.

Resin, knots, and the facts that it’s soft.

Resin can be hell on planers and jointers, because the resin can nit only wind up coating the blades, it can also wind up coating the rollers on planers, and just basically wind getting stuck all over the equipment requiring extensive cleanup.
Some shops won’t even let people use most softwoods because of this.

Knots are an issue because they can chip knives, leading to a raised ridge being left along the length of a board, indexible spiral cutterheads tend to eliminate this issue, or make it quickly fixable.
A lot of Cedar tends to be full of knots.

The softness of cedar is an issue, because the softer wood is, the sharper knives and cutters need to be to prevent chip out.

Also, never sand wood, then run it over a jointer, or thru a planer.
Abrasive particles can get dislodged from the sandpaper and get embeded in the wood, and ehen the wood get run thru the planer/jointer, the stray abrasive particles will dull the cutters.
 

HenryAZ

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

A jointer is not just for edges, and one wider than 6" will serve you well. If you have a cupped board and just run it through the planer, you'll have a thinner cupped board. If you face it first on a jointer to remove all or most of the cup, then plane it, you will have a flat board (speaking of wood where you have enough extra thickness to work with, such as hardwoods that come in the rough, or a board that is destined for 1/2" thickness, e.g.).

There are lots of other things you can do with a jointer. With a jig, you can put a very shallow bevel on a board to make a threshold. You can raise panels on a jointer, though a shaper makes it easier. You can rabbet on a jointer, and more.
 
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KenC

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

There are several varieties of cedar. Locally we have a lot of red cedar, smallish trees with lots of knots. Many of which are loose and cause problems when planing. They are very hard, but the wood itself is very soft, making it difficult to plane. tough on knives and loose knots that pop out can jam the machine or become projectiles in the shop. White cedar and western red are totally different.
 

Downwindtracker 2

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

I was talking about western red.
 

jar944

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

I have the grizzly 1021 (1983 model) that I upgrade to a byrd shelix head. The plus side is tearout and noise level is significantly reduced, as well as chips are smaller and dont clog the dc. The negative is soft woods are not cut as cleanly (poplar and softer) anywhere there is a soft spot or reversing grain. Its almost looks torn off (not out) in those areas. Not horrible but something to be aware of.

I've been looking for a 24" planer with a knife grinder, but will likely keep the grizzly since I dont plan on getting a 24" helical head.

As for jointers, like most woodworking machines bigger is better:) I had good luck with my g0490 8" jointer, though is did drift out of tolerance more often than I'd have preferred. Not a huge issue to get the tables back to being co-planer but annoying. Its likely that moving it around the shop on its mobile base was the primary cause. The other annoying thing was the fence had a slight twist.

I've since sold the 8" grizzly and upgraded to a 16" Newman. It's big, heavy, accurate, and was about the same price as a new G0490x.
View media item 101608
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The nice thing about a bigger jointer is being able to flatten wide faces if you have wide boards or panel glue ups.
 

raskal

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

What do you guys use for lubrication of the moving parts of a planer?
I have a DW735 that squeaks when I move the height adjustment.
 

Minnesota Steve

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

What do you guys use for lubrication of the moving parts of a planer?
I have a DW735 that squeaks when I move the height adjustment.

I would use a dry chain lube. To not get the spray over everything else like the rollers and such... spray the lube onto a cloth and them wipe the threaded rods with the moistened cloth.

There is a chain inside that drives the cogs on all 4 posts... if that's where the squeak is, you'll need to take the covers off. Hopefully just lubricating the threaded rods does the trick.
 

Downwindtracker 2

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

The theory is that spiral cutters are steady cut, instead of giving the motor a chance to come back up to speed. A benefit of carbide teeth, is that you can joint plywood! If you hit something and chip a tooth, you just turn that one, no need to change and reset.
 
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TLCObsession

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

Grizzly now sells a helical cutter for the Dewalt planers.

WRC dust is bad for you. Wear a mask. I had a co-worker who had to have sinus surgery done because of scarring from years of working with WRC.
 
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drivesitfar

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

TLCO: what is WRC? thanks for mentioning that Grizzly sells a helical cutter for my Dewalt planer.

ALL: thanks for posting all the good tips and things about planing and it sounds like a helical (or spiral) cutter is on my shopping list. anybody know of any quality differences on the different versions and is one better than another? any thoughts on which one would work best in my Dewalt 735?

I haven't picked up the 15 inch bigger Grizzly planer, but since it's not far from the Grizzly store i might pick up their helical cutter unless there is a better one to be bought/found elsewhere. is there one?

when i'm planing my milled 6x6's and 8x8's that are too big for my planer i end up using my hand 3.25 inch planers (Craftsman & Makita) and far from a perfect job. since these are for fence and pergola they don't need to be perfect, but i'm looking for any tips you guys have that might make it easier to get a better finish?

thanks again for adding a lot of good information and hope you all post more.
 
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drivesitfar

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

After watching a few more YouTube videos and doing more shopping and reading i'm finding out that if you buy the standard Shelix helico cutter for a Dewalt DW735 planer you can take all the cutters off to install the shaft and then put the cutters back on inside the machine.

that way your settings won't be 1/4 or whatever dimension off by using the Shelix that fits in the Dewalt 735 without taking the cutters off.

since i'm guessing Grizzly cutters are made in China i'm thinking of buying the more expensive ones or are made in China carbide cutters ok?

thanks for any help in my situation or post up your planers and joiners with pictures and show us maybe a few projects and share your knowledge.

cheers and stay safe.
 

Copymutt

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

Looks like that virgin cedar will work up nice. Probably no staples or nails in it. Probably isn’t good enough. I use an ancient metal detector on every piece B4 passing thru my equipment. Nicking or gouging blades is expensive and time consuming. At the very least run a strong magnet over all stock surfaces. A good project for the kids, reward any finds.
 
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drivesitfar

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

CM: great tip to check for metal (staples, nails, ...) before running boards thru our planers.

ALL: there might be a better way to plane a twisted or cupped or damaged board, but this homemade sled looks like a nice way to save some of our lumber that might not normally work.

here's a nice youtube video and he had another one with the sled going thru his Dewalt planer with a twisted board.


or is there a better method?
 

EZ_Garage

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

That is what a nice sized jointer is for. Given that using a planer sled can allow some additional capacity for oversized material.
 

RTM

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

I’ve seen several versions of the sled, most people that make one take several tweaks to get them right. Be careful that you don’t build it too heavy.

They used them a few times that I know of.
 

matt_i

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

Here's a helpful tip...

Dont buy a planer like this one if you want to dimension wood...:yikes: :D

 

hsvtoolfool

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

I second HenryAZ's post above...

#1) Joint a flat reference surface
#2) Thickness plane the other surface (you have co-planar, flat surfaces)
#3) Edge joint a side at 90° to either surface
#4) Rip the board to width
#5) Optional: joint the ripped edge for an optimal glue surface
 

jar944

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

Here's a helpful tip...

Dont buy a planer like this one if you want to dimension wood...:yikes: :D


Sure you can...

Just swap the tool holder for a router.
 

jar944

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

That is what a nice sized jointer is for. Given that using a planer sled can allow some additional capacity for oversized material.

That is also one of the reasons having a jointer the same size as your planer is beneficial. The euro combo planer thicknesers do that reasonably well.
 
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drivesitfar

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

It looks like there are only a couple choices for Shelix sprial/helical cutters. Grizzly and Byrd or are there more i'm not finding?

I like saving old wood and at the moment i don't have the space or the funds for a 12 inch planer hence the planer sled being maybe a good option.

anybody use their router for planing huge tables or slabs or glue ups? i've seen some that look like they work pretty well. I think this kitchen countertop was finished with a router set up in a jig to work like a planer after planing smaller sections in his planer by a very handy GJ member.
 

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RTM

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

I had a friend smooth a huge slab using a router bridge frame. I think it was 4-5 ft by 6-7 ft. Saw pix, but never saw the finished slab. Was a slow process, cuz his was straight off the tree, no kiln drying, only air drying.
 

TLCObsession

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

Grizzly now sells a helical cutter for the Dewalt planers.

WRC dust is bad for you. Wear a mask. I had a co-worker who had to have sinus surgery done because of scarring from years of working with WRC.

TLCO: what is WRC? thanks for mentioning that Grizzly sells a helical cutter for my Dewalt planer.
WRC= Western Red Cedar

That's a beautiful stack of wood you have.
 

2Fast

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

It looks like there are only a couple choices for Shelix sprial/helical cutters. Grizzly and Byrd or are there more i'm not finding?
.

Here is one issue I have with the spiral cutterheads

When your going through your cut list to make a project, do you cut the board to the EXACT dimensions right off the bat, or do you 'rough cut' maybe just a little longer and wider?

Same thing when planing a board. I always rough plane slightly thicker than what I want and then let the lumber sit for a day or two to make sure it is done moving. I then do my final cut to the exact dimension I need.

So getting back to spiral cutter heads, I can rough cut with a crappier set of straight knifes that I won't worry about if I hit a nail or some other defect because I am going to swap in my good set of knives for the final cut. Also, different steels have different properties. Carbide is very durable but the finish quality is also reduced. A knife made out of m42 steel gives a better cut, is less prone to chipping than high speed steel which are the cheapest knives.

Just adding a different perspective
 

RTM

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

Rough cut here, with days in between.

Learned my lesson, I planed a madrone board flat, waited, then ripped it. Each side went with a different warp, planed again, then final cut.
 
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drivesitfar

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

2fast: I'd say i'd plane boards before finish cut and staining. waiting a few days sounds like it might be a good thing since you are opening up the wood that maybe has some more drying to do.

are you saying you own 2 planers? one with straight blades and one with helical one?

RTM: i've seen a few guys use a router to plane a huge slab and it seemed to work pretty good. one furniture maker i knew had a huge planer i think maybe 24 inch and since he had a small shop he didn't have a huge sanding belt and he used a FESTOOL sander with a vacuum set up on it. he made some nice stuff.

ALL: just curious if any of you want to share your secrets on how you know which way the grain on wood runs best thru a planer or joiner? also what is the best cut of wood you can buy so it doesn't cup or warp as much?
 

jar944

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Northern VA
Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

2fast: I'd say i'd plane boards before finish cut and staining. waiting a few days sounds like it might be a good thing since you are opening up the wood that maybe has some more drying to do.

are you saying you own 2 planers? one with straight blades and one with helical one?

RTM: i've seen a few guys use a router to plane a huge slab and it seemed to work pretty good. one furniture maker i knew had a huge planer i think maybe 24 inch and since he had a small shop he didn't have a huge sanding belt and he used a FESTOOL sander with a vacuum set up on it. he made some nice stuff.

ALL: just curious if any of you want to share your secrets on how you know which way the grain on wood runs best thru a planer or joiner? also what is the best cut of wood you can buy so it doesn't cup or warp as much?

Typically you can read the edge grain on flatsawn boards, though on quarter sawn it's more difficult. Vertical grain fir is the devil.

So give it your best guess, and flip the orientation if it chunks on the first pass.

The most stable cut is quarter sawn (or vertical grain if talking softwoods)
 

RTM

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

Yup, quarter sawn for the most stable boards. Also the most expensive, as it results in the smallest boards.

Reading the grain: look at the thin edge of the board, look for grain lines going uphill, feed the bottom of the hill into the planer first (I think, been a year or two since I've had mine out.)
 
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drivesitfar

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Re: HOW to use PLANERS & JOINERS and which ones to buy. Tips and tricks about use too

Jar & RTM: thanks for the comments on grain and I kinda figured quarter sawn was the nicest seeing that some of the quartersawn oak tables, dressers and cabinets I see are amazing.

ALL: I like the method of if you can't tell which way the grain is going give it a test by putting the board in which I think hurts the board more than the cutters.

as you can tell I have lots and lots of questions cause i'm more of a wood butcher than a wood worker, but hoping to change that a bit in the future.

I'm thinking of having my Grizzly 15 inch 220 volt planer set up in my back yard about 50-75 feet from a 220 plug i'm putting at the corner of my home. the wire to the 220 plug will be 12 gauge and wondering if 12 gauge or 10 gauge wire for extension cord works ok or should i maybe buy or make an 8 gauge extension cord? or put 10 gauge wire from the service panel to the plug?

thanks in advance for helping me cause my googlefu and knowledge doesn't work as well as some of yours does.
 
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