I Don't Understand The ICON Pricing Structure - Tool Chests

joey1320 · Dec 1, 2020

I have seen the ICON tool chests in person and have compared them to the US General Series 2's which are usually one isle over. Yes, they are a better put box and I would definitely be okay with paying more for them, but holy schnikes the pricing doesn't make any sense to me.

Currently the Yukon to US General pricing structure for a 46" is at $339 to $499. We all know those usually go on sales but lets use MSRP for these examples.

The difference being the US General costs 1.47 times the costs of the Yukon. Is the US General one and a half times better than the Yukon? Absolutely. Therefore I wouldn't be upset about spending the extra money for a better box.

But the difference in quality to price between the ICON and US General is nowhere near as justifiable.

The 72" US General is $1,199 while the ICON (73") is $3,799. That's such a massive difference is price to quality that I can't really come up with a reason why they would do such a thing. That cost is x3.165 difference and NO, the ICON is not 3 times better than the US General (In my opinion).

I'm considering getting a 72" box since my 42" is getting up on years and abuse but I can't see a reason why I would skip on the General to get the ICON, I truly don't. If the ICON was in the $1,800-$2,200 price range, I would entertain the extra expense because it's a better box, but not at $3,800. That's just moronic to me.

*Rant Over*

carterbeauford · Dec 1, 2020

I hadn't been in a HF in probably 5 years until recently. The Icon brand in general seems to be closely following Snap On's premium pricing structure. Without the brand recognition I can't see it working.

Black300zx · Dec 1, 2020

I've heard many racers and performance enthusiasts use the phrase "90% of the cost is spent getting the last 10% of performance". That thinking applies to a lot of things.

In the case of tool boxes, there are a lot of relatively cheap improvements that can be made, such as some extra welds or thicker materials, which can make a significant difference between a cheap box and a mid-level box. Higher-end drawer slides probable are a bigger hit to the raw materials costs, not to mention that manufacturing volumes are probable lower for the higher end boxes, so the cost increase vs performance increase can be expected to increase non-linearly.

Also consider that the target for Icon boxes is professionals who likely will consider how the upgrade will effect their productivity and long term costs. If the ICON lasts a professional 3x longer than the USG, spending the extra makes sense and therefore HF can command a premium that the target audience may pay. For a home garage wrencher like me, either option will likely last my lifetime, so I'll never come out ahead by splurging for the nicer box.

Rickster · Dec 1, 2020

I checked out the specs and the Icon is 25” deep versus the 22” USG. The loaded capacity is 8K lbs versus 6.6k lbs and the other thing that stuck out is the total weight; 897 lbs for the Icon versus 528 lbs for the USG. So it looks to be bigger and beefier, but like you said that’s big price difference.

tez929rr · Dec 1, 2020

How does any company become a premium brand? HF has been slowly building a good rep with the US General stuff; this is a next step. I suspect they will use discounting to get people into their credit card program. If their sales slump enough I assume they will adjust their pricing.

Remember when suddenly Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura suddenly came on to the market as premium brands? They were all still built by Toyota, Nissan, and Honda. Sort of like Hyundai and Genesis.

zendriver · Dec 1, 2020

A similar sized Snap On is $14 grand.

That $3700 model is dirt cheap. :lol:

For the OP, what is a "fair price" considering most of them, including the Snap On are mostly just a matter of price markup?

Harbor Freight never has struck me as a stupid company. They have those Icons priced that way for a reason.

Daniel Dudley · Dec 1, 2020

We have seen pictures of people on this forum standing in open USG drawers without breaking them. They are quality units that would be hard to overload or wear out.

I am not saying you can't spend more or get more, but I do wonder if many people need more. I do believe they are superior to pretty much any box made in the 80s, and a lot of people still covet those boxes.

p00p · Dec 1, 2020

i wish they offered an option for drawers - cabinets options for the price.

BrandoJames · Dec 1, 2020

I used to think Harbor Freight had a smart business model: they positioned themselves as the “Wal-mart for DIYers”. They offered a wide variety of cheap but useful tools, with ubiquitous coupons. Over the years, HF built a loyal customer base that expects low prices on everything. A typical HF customer will only buy a $25 ratchet if they have a $10 coupon.

Then HF rolls out the Icon line, with the notion of selling their customers a $4000 tool box. What are they thinking? The Icon product line doesn’t match up with their customers expectations or buying habits. I think the Icon line was a really terrible miscalculation by HF management.

RedneckWelder · Dec 1, 2020

BrandoJames said:
I used to think Harbor Freight had a smart business model: they positioned themselves as the “Wal-mart for DIYers”. They offered a wide variety of cheap but useful tools, with ubiquitous coupons. Over the years, HF built a loyal customer base that expects low prices on everything. A typical HF customer will only buy a $25 ratchet if they have a $10 coupon.

Then HF rolls out the Icon line, with the notion of selling their customers a $4000 tool box. What are they thinking? The Icon product line doesn’t match up with their customers expectations or buying habits. I think the Icon line was a really terrible miscalculation by HF management.

I disagree. HF is capturing more and more of the pro market, especially among the younger guys entering the field who don’t want to pay $400-500 for a set of wrenches or $150 for a ratchet. Or the big $$$ for a new tool truck box.

CRXPilot · Dec 1, 2020

They may boost the US General line sales. "Wow, that Icon is sweet but I work at Jiffy Lube. The US General is way less and still comes in lime green. I'll take it!"

Mechanical Noise · Dec 1, 2020

CRXPilot said:
They may boost the US General line sales. "Wow, that Icon is sweet but I work at Jiffy Lube. The US General is way less and still comes in lime green. I'll take it!"

Yep. Expensive Icon toolboxes make the US General boxes look like an even better deal.

Lookin4'67Galaxieconv · Dec 2, 2020

I'm curious to know what the customer service support is going to be like with the ICON boxes. Is it going to be much better than run of the mill HF merchandise?! :headscrat

zendriver · Dec 2, 2020

It shouldn’t be that puzzling.

If you’re going to wrench for a living in today’s world, do you want to make payments on a $14,000 snap on box or a $3000 Icon? For sure, there are differences in quality and service ability, but either will get the job done

Plus, as others have stated it makes all their other boxes look like absolute bargains.

Smart smart business move IMO

Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

joey1320 · Dec 2, 2020

carterbeauford said:
I hadn't been in a HF in probably 5 years until recently. The Icon brand in general seems to be closely following Snap On's premium pricing structure. Without the brand recognition I can't see it working.

Correct. I see it as a wanna-be Snap-On but you are spot on, it has no history, reputation nor "Amerian'ess" to compete with it.

joey1320 · Dec 2, 2020

zendriver said:
For the OP, what is a "fair price" considering most of them, including the Snap On are mostly just a matter of price markup?

I'm not comparing ICON to Snap-On. My comparison was between ICON and USG in relation to HF "owning" both brands and applying the Yukon to USG pricing structure.

I would gladly pay $1800-$2200 for an ICON box if it was 1.5 times better than the USG comparable model, in this case the 72" chest.

zendriver · Dec 2, 2020

joey1320 said:
I'm not comparing ICON to Snap-On. My comparison was between ICON and USG in relation to HF "owning" both brands and applying the Yukon to USG pricing structure.

I would gladly pay $1800-$2200 for an ICON box if it was 1.5 times better than the USG comparable model, in this case the 72" chest.

So why should they sell it at that price, just because that’s what you’re willing to pay? :dunno:

My guess is they are charging more because it’s a “professional” level toolbox, so they likely think that’ll have appeal to someone who works in the trade.

Regarding “X times better” it really meaningless when it comes to pricing with almost everything

From the cheapest import toolbox to the high-end snap on, It’s still sheet metal that is formed, painted and have wheels attached.

Therefore the huge price differential between the lowest and the highest is more a matter of price markup than cost of manufacture.

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bigguns69 · Dec 2, 2020

I have the HF general 72" bottom with 56" top and (2) 16" extension drawers hanging on the bottom. It is loaded to the gills with tools in my home shop (pretty active). It has been a great toolbox for me, highly recommend to others. For the price of the ICON upgrade, you can buy a new welder, plasma cutter or other tools for the shop.

thooks · Dec 2, 2020

carterbeauford said:
I hadn't been in a HF in probably 5 years until recently. The Icon brand in general seems to be closely following Snap On's premium pricing structure. Without the brand recognition I can't see it working.

I disagree.

HF is filling a hole that Sears let grow. I assure you that there are lots of people out there looking for high-quality tools but have no idea about Truck tool brands, how to buy them nor do they want to afford them. They were used to or had always heard about Craftsman.

Until the Lowe's deal, Craftsman tools had begun to be hard to come by. With a HF in nearly every town now, open 7 days a week, great warranty, that hole left by Sears is being filled.

HD and Lowe's aren't the places I think most people head to when they want/need mechanic's tools.

JMO

carterbeauford · Dec 2, 2020

If ICON tools and boxes are successful I'm interested to see how it eventually affects the tool truck business model.

BrandoJames · Dec 2, 2020

RedneckWelder said:
HF is capturing more and more of the pro market, especially among the younger guys entering the field who don’t want to pay $400-500 for a set of wrenches or $150 for a ratchet. Or the big $$$ for a new tool truck box.

I think a $4000 box is a lot for “young guys entering the field”. And guys who are willing to drop $4K for a box probably aren’t thinking HF. They’re more likely thinking about a used Snap-on/Matco/Mac box.

Right before the lockdown, there were a lot of threads here about Icon and the complete lack of Icon boxes in HF stores. There weren’t even Icon display models in the stores a year after the Icon rollout. That’s not a recipe for success. It’s highly unlikely that bad situation improved during the lockdown.

joey1320 · Dec 2, 2020

zendriver said:
Regarding “X times better” it really meaningless when it comes to pricing with almost everything

From the cheapest import toolbox to the high-end snap on, It’s still sheet metal that is formed, painted and have wheels attached.

Therefore the huge price differential between the lowest and the highest is more a matter of price markup than cost of manufacture.

Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

Agree to disagree.

The "Good, Better, Best" pricing strategy utilized by HF makes the escalating cost of it products what they are, hence why they market their items as such.

When talking about their boxes, they have Yukon, USG and ICON. The difference in them when it comes to quality and price is significant when going from USG to ICON as opposed to Yukon to USG. This is my main issue, it doesn't make sense in relation to everything else they market/sell with the same format.

Three things will happen, either the prices will comes down become nobody is buying them, they'll stop selling the boxes altogether, or they'll be able to sucker people into utilizing their store credit card to purchase the boxes. I don't see the ICON brand, mainly when it comes to the boxes, having a long lifespan at this current price point unless something drastically changes.

danski0224 · Dec 2, 2020

carterbeauford said:
If ICON tools and boxes are successful I'm interested to see how it eventually affects the tool truck business model.

I doubt that the folks buying off of a tool truck are the target demographic here.

danski0224 · Dec 2, 2020

joey1320 said:
Three things will happen, either the prices will comes down become nobody is buying them, they'll stop selling the boxes altogether, or they'll be able to sucker people into utilizing their store credit card to purchase the boxes. I don't see the ICON brand, mainly when it comes to the boxes, having a long lifespan at this current price point unless something drastically changes.

How do you know that "no one is buying them"?

What else, new, is available for a comparable amount of money, from any country of origin?

How many people that need a toolbox (soon) have the luxury of shopping for "deals" on craigslist or eBay? Then, when you find one, you have to have the capability to go get it or have it shipped. Some of those issues may still exist getting the box from HF, but at least the place is local. I'd hate to get my "deal" box on eBay, have it shipped, then it is damaged, and the seller says too bad.

I didn't have an issue with the price differential. The difference in construction and the specs is significant. If I didn't already have a US General box, the Icon would have been under serious consideration.

zendriver · Dec 2, 2020

This thread seems like "deja vu all over again", reminded me of the griping some time ago, when HF came out with Hercules 12" miter saw.

"Who in their right mind would pay $400 for an HF saw, with a 90 day warranty?"

Well, they did drop the price 40 bucks, but apparently enough did buy, since it is still offered and has almost 1300 reviews, with 4.75 stars.

Looking at the very nice Icon storage web site, it's crystal-clear (to me anyway) what the plan is - to offer an imported version of the "Snap On" look, quality and "feeling", at a much lower price, but at a higher price to distinguish the product line from their other products.

Will it be successful?

$4000 "brand name" tool chest vs the old school at $14000.

I think it will.

mustangmike6996 · Dec 2, 2020

I am on quite a few FB pags for mechanics/toolboxes etc.

I was a professional tech for many years in my teens-20s. I still have all of my Snapon, Mac, Matco Craftsman stuff. I recently needed toolboxes and since Sears is no longer I started looking at HF. I ended up buying 2 boxes, a Dayton jack and the 5-drawer tool cart to hold all of my pro tools. (My Matco box is too big for my job).

The ICON brand has a ton of great reviews and seem to be working well from what I have seen online. It is a heck of lot cheaper than the namebrand counterparts.

As for the OP, its not a linear comparison for cost to quality. Think of technology, paying 2 times as much doesn't get you 2 times the memory or 2 times the speed etc. 2 times as much might be 1.5 times "better" and 4 times more expensive might only be 2.5 times "better". Most of the pricing is based on benchmarking.

Why would HF sell the ICON boxes for $2500 (example) when they can sell them for $4000 which is still a steal compared to Snapon. No other big box store has a line of toolboxes that are similar to ICON which partially warrants that price. The next closest boxes (Milwaukee, Craftsman, Kobalt) are maybe comparable to US Generals.

Farmall450 · Dec 2, 2020

RedneckWelder said:
I disagree. HF is capturing more and more of the pro market, especially among the younger guys entering the field who don’t want to pay $400-500 for a set of wrenches or $150 for a ratchet. Or the big $$$ for a new tool truck box.

I think they are, but when these guys drop $5k on a box is it going to be an icon or a Snappy/Mac?

That's where it doesn't add up...they've gaining a following for being well priced. If people wanted premium, they had plenty of options.

Jtels85 · Dec 2, 2020

If I were a new tech just starting out, I would likely buy an ICON box on credit and most of my tools from HF. No waiting on the truck to come around only when it’s convenient for them. I’ve read too many negative tool truck stories on here. I can just drive to the nearest HF that day and walk in and out with my warranty.

I’d only purchase from Snap-On if it were a specialty tool that no one else made. Given the choice, I’d rather deal with MAC.

Lookin4'67Galaxieconv · Dec 2, 2020

It's a mistake IMO to compare the ICON box pricing to that of Snap On's list pricing since nobody pays that anyway. For example, the ICON box that competes with the KRL 722. Look at what kind of deal you could get from a Snap On dealer for a new one, and what used ones in nice condition go for. The real price/value for comparison purposes is in the middle.

zendriver · Dec 3, 2020

Harbor freight is just wisely looking at the endgame.

If somebody’s going to buy two cart loads of icon tools, they are going to want to put them in an icon toolbox.

just seems to be the way it works.

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Mechanical Noise · Dec 3, 2020

joey1320 said:
Three things will happen, either the prices will comes down become nobody is buying them, they'll stop selling the boxes altogether, or they'll be able to sucker people into utilizing their store credit card to purchase the boxes. I don't see the ICON brand, mainly when it comes to the boxes, having a long lifespan at this current price point unless something drastically changes.

I'm assuming there's enough margin with the toolboxes that HF can sell them at low volumes and still make a profit.

I'm also assuming the higher priced ICON boxes make the US General boxes look like an even better value for alot of buyers.

Are either of my assumptions incorrect?

How many ICON toolboxes does HF sell? I have no idea. If you know, could you give the number?

joey1320 · Dec 3, 2020

Mechanical Noise said:
I'm assuming there's enough margin with the toolboxes that HF can sell them at low volumes and still make a profit.

I'm also assuming the higher priced ICON boxes make the US General boxes look like an even better value for alot of buyers.

Are either of my assumptions incorrect?

How many ICON toolboxes does HF sell? I have no idea. If you know, could you give the number?

My BS analysis mainly comes from review count.

ICON - 101 Reviews for ALL of their storage options (Bottoms, Tops, Sides, Hutches) links on HF's site.

https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=icon storage&cid=sitebanner_lp_icontoolstorage

USG - 330 Reviews just for the Red 72" Bottom alone. There's definitely over 5 thousand reviews for all of their storage options on the site not including the reviews from the tool carts which alone are over 7 thousand combined.

https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=icon storage&cid=sitebanner_lp_icontoolstorage

Not having access to their sales receipts, this is the only way I can use. Seems like a decent enough way considering people bought the product in the first place. Are they all good reviews? No. But averages for all of their storage products are over 4 star for USG and ICON, so I'll guesstimate 80% are happy customers.

I'm with you on the assumption that the ICON boxes make the USG ones look even better. The USG S2 is a phenomenal box when compared to everything else on the market. HF nailed it on quality and price on them.

joey1320 · Dec 3, 2020

zendriver said:
Harbor freight is just wisely looking at the endgame.

If somebody’s going to buy two cart loads of icon tools, they are going to want to put them in an icon toolbox.

just seems to be the way it works.

Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

I can see this being a good play. It makes sense if someone is willing to spend the extra money on ICON tools, which I view as great tools for the price when compared to M/M/SO, they would like the same name box to put them in.

Arps · Dec 3, 2020

Seems like a lot of sour grapes from guys still making payments on the tool truck boxes...

Fedwrench · Dec 3, 2020

BrandoJames said:
Right before the lockdown, there were a lot of threads here about Icon and the complete lack of Icon boxes in HF stores. There weren’t even Icon display models in the stores a year after the Icon rollout. That’s not a recipe for success. It’s highly unlikely that bad situation improved during the lockdown.

Actually, I think it did improve. All of the Harbor Freight stores in my area have the large red Icon display unit now. The Icon hand tool section is full aside from there still not being any 3/8 drive flex head ratchets since the first ones were recalled. :wtf:

Icon is the brand many people love to hate here.
I considered Icon when looking to get something larger than my old Cornwell 700 series cart. I ended up going with Tekton because, Icon didn't offer something in the 48 inch wide size. However, with a 20% coupon and Harbor Freight's 0% interest credit card giving another 10% off, the Icon box price drops even further, making it an option for me at least. :beer:

Mechanical Noise · Dec 3, 2020

joey1320 said:
My BS analysis mainly comes from review count.

ICON - 101 Reviews for ALL of their storage options (Bottoms, Tops, Sides, Hutches) links on HF's site.

https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=icon storage&cid=sitebanner_lp_icontoolstorage

USG - 330 Reviews just for the Red 72" Bottom alone. There's definitely over 5 thousand reviews for all of their storage options on the site not including the reviews from the tool carts which alone are over 7 thousand combined.

https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=icon storage&cid=sitebanner_lp_icontoolstorage

Not having access to their sales receipts, this is the only way I can use. Seems like a decent enough way considering people bought the product in the first place. Are they all good reviews? No. But averages for all of their storage products are over 4 star for USG and ICON, so I'll guesstimate 80% are happy customers.

I'm with you on the assumption that the ICON boxes make the USG ones look even better. The USG S2 is a phenomenal box when compared to everything else on the market. HF nailed it on quality and price on them.

I think nearly all the ICON box reviews are from this year and some of the stores weren't stocked for a long time, so there's that. But I don't doubt that US General outsells ICON by a huge margin. I have to figure that ICON sales are much more profitable so it doesn't really take all that many ICON sales to justify their continued existence.

I'm inclined to think the low volume/high profit ICON sales model could work out well for Harbor Freight. Their challenge won't be getting to some magical price point but meeting the expectations of customers who consider service more important than price.

BrandoJames · Dec 3, 2020

Fedwrench said:
Actually, I think it did improve. All of the Harbor Freight stores in my area have the large red Icon display unit now. The Icon hand tool section is full aside from there still not being any 3/8 drive flex head ratchets since the first ones were recalled.

It's incredible that they haven't fixed that 3/8" flex head ratchet yet. You'd think that would be a big seller. It's not that expensive and a 3/8" flex is *probably* the most popular sized ratchet.

Fedwrench said:
Icon is the brand many people love to hate here.

"Hate" is a bit strong, just call me an Icon skeptic. I don't have a problem with HF. Like most guys here, I own some of their products: Daytona floor jack, USG cabinet, Doyle pliers. But typically I buy tools elsewhere. Since I haven't been in an HF since the lockdown, I'll take your word for it regarding Icon boxes.

kngelv · Dec 3, 2020

Has anyone on this site purchased an ICON box yet?

James

justanengineer · Dec 3, 2020

zendriver said:
A similar sized Snap On is $14 grand.

That $3700 model is dirt cheap.
.

Yeeeaaa....not even close. KRL is $8500, but the Icon box feels more like a KRA at $5k. Regardless, if I’m spending $4k on a new box I’ll spend a few thousand more on a box from a company with a history of giving excellent long term parts support. That’s the joke of USG boxes, after a few years in industry guys have to start cobbling slides and casters onto them bc HF’s customer service and parts support stops at the sale, and consequently used boxes are near worthless.

HF’s just banking on hobbyist fanboy’ism continued loyalty with this IMO. It’s no different than the folks who blindly keep buying Toyota’s bc “quality.” Most all of HF’s advertising for 15+ years now has been bald faced lies yet newbies keep repeating the nonsense and claiming “they’re getting better.”

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Smilodon · Dec 3, 2020

I agree with a previous post that HF is going for the hole left in the tool world by the departure of Sears and Craftsman. For the average non-professional who still wants pretty good quality stuff (and some warranty/consistency in quality), Craftsman was a common choice in the pre-order online era. Trucks only came (and still come) to professional mechanics locations.

Harbor Freight never had a "decent" quality reputation. Just cheapest. Now they are going to try to develop that reputation. My guess is that they will move "ICON" items to a separate location in the store or some such in the future.

Yes, the Craftsman name is still around, but diluted by being sold all over. Not to mention that most places who sell Craftsman these days don't sell the type of tools needed for jobs like working on cars.

I Don't Understand The ICON Pricing Structure - Tool Chests

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