Jberger93
Well-known member
I know they sell the 4 wire push connectors. But I dont trust them with the hot wires. Is there a trick to twisting the 4 wires together before putting a wire nut on? I am learning electrical and **** at this
How do you guys twist 4 wires together ?
- Thread starter Jberger93
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XJSuperman
Well-known member
Strong fingers, or pinch them all in a drill chuck and give it a quick spin.
ssdave
Banned
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Bigblockyeti
Banned
Solid or stranded? I'll assume solid 12ga copper. Strip all four ~1.25" then hold them tightly together, pull all four tips together and twist on a quality, new and correctly sized wire nut.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
Linesman pliers. 20 years ago when I was busting homes full time, I didn't carry linemans in my pouch. I used my angle head dykes to pre twist. It worked great then but I cannot get it to work worth a damn now.
acer66
Well-known member
I second lineman pliers.
Jim greengo
Well-known member
What he said.
nadogail
Well-known member
Sometimes it takes a little patience to get the hang of it.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
I never pretwist and in over 45 straight years in the trade I can count the number of failed connections on one hand. I tug on the individual wires to make sure the aren't loose after I'm done.
Terry D
Well-known member
I always twist my connections. I have never had a call back on one
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Sent from my SM-G960U using The Garage Journal mobile app
naturalgas
Well-known member
I third lineman pliers.
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Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Crazyjake8493
Well-known member
Glad to hear this from someone who's been in the trade so long. Anytime someone younger mentions not pre-twisting, then tend to get reamed out by the older guys. You have more years in the trade than I've been alive, but I never pre-twist and have not had an issue when properly installed.
Skiff Builder
Well-known member
This just gave me an idea to cover almost all the bases.
Strip wires 2" long.
Insert all in a 4 hole Wago.
Grab Wago with linesman pliers.
Twist to get a good lay on 4 strands.
Cut off Wago.
Twist on Wire Nut.
Jim greengo
Well-known member
sberry
Banned
A am with a couple eld timers here, I really dont twist, I often run it on, grab it up a little and back it off to make sure its constant and will even snip a little and then run it on tight and I have strong fingers and can twist a knot in then with wing nuts.
I have had some of the same stuff a long time, have found loose in others work especially with those old Scotch things but I am kind of careful and mine are always super tight and nearly welded.
I agree about the lay, too much twist wants to spring them apart.
I have had some of the same stuff a long time, have found loose in others work especially with those old Scotch things but I am kind of careful and mine are always super tight and nearly welded.
I agree about the lay, too much twist wants to spring them apart.
I don't have this tool, but it looks interesting:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MDC7NS6/?tag=atomicindus08-20
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MDC7NS6/?tag=atomicindus08-20
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stickshift
Well-known member
Why not just use pushin connectors like Wago and Ideal? They're so easy to use and take up less space in a box than a wire nut for 4 #12 wires.
I think maybe some people are worried they will fail like backstab connections on devices. Have any of our resident electricians seen pushin connections fail (where the wire was fully pushed in)?
I think maybe some people are worried they will fail like backstab connections on devices. Have any of our resident electricians seen pushin connections fail (where the wire was fully pushed in)?
Push-in wago's made an appearance on one of my jobs 15 years ago (construction)... never to be seen again on a jobsite with that employer. I was told there were problems with them. Not sure if that is the same design as now.
The lever-lock wago's showed up with my new 'site' 3 years ago (maintenance) and have not been a problem. I like them. Makes troubleshooting a lot more plug & play.
ROBZ71LM7
Well-known member
Nowadays... WAGO's! Super easy and they now make them for up to #10 AWG.
Ak Jim
Well-known member
I’ve always used linesman pliers. I approach the wire nut like it’s main job is to insulate, not to hold the wires together.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
I've come across 4-#12s over twisted with the end cut off with lineman's pliers (made up with red wirenuts). The wire engaged 1 thread on the wirenut which promptly fell off when touched
Milton Shaw
Well-known member
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- Feb 11, 2011
- Messages
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Ideal makes a screwdriver with socket that fits most sizes of wire nuts. They really do great for getting them twisted in the wire nut. You can even screw them so hard that the wires will push through the end of the wire nut. They are available in both phillips, slot and multi bit with a ratchet.. I love them, try and find them as they relieve a lot of stress on fingers that are not getting any more flexible...
Ak Jim
Well-known member
I've come across 4-#12s over twisted with the end cut off with lineman's pliers (made up with red wirenuts). The wire engaged 1 thread on the wirenut which promptly fell off when touched
Yikes! That is not good.
Bigblockyeti
Banned
The push in (backstabed) connections on the switch for our master bath lights failed, there was evidence of arcing and flash around the perimeter of the 14ga (cheap bastards) solid copper leaving the switch. Properly wiring around the terminals on a new switch fixed that. Ironically the same thing happened to the neighbors master bath light switch 4 days prior. The houses were built at the same time in '04 so the timing of the planned obsolescence is quite consistent.
cashishift
Well-known member
wago or alternative for me.
Crazy. I graduated vocational Electricity a few decades ago. I didn't pursue that line of work, but I still do my own work. But I had never heard of a Wago. I always pre-twist my splices. 2 conductors I use my fingers. More than 2 I use my linemans pliers.
Wago is how you do it. Lever-type Wago is the best option - uses less space in a box, you get a visual confirmation of good contact, easy to disconnect and reconnect. Twist-on nuts have been against the code in many places in Europe for years due to inability to properly inspect connection. Bad twist could result in fire. Push-in Wago or IDEAL is also fine if you are using solid copper. For stranded you have to pre-crimp ferrules with inexpensive ferrule crimping kit. With lever-type it is unnecessary. Newer lever type Wagos is what I would use. I could not see a reason to go with twist nut, other than for cost.
Bigblockyeti
Banned
What's the impedance of a wago when running an inductive load (like a big air compressor) that can spike very high during a slow start up?
Here are the specs of WAGO I am using for bigger loads around the house. I am crimping ferrules when using it with stranded wire.
https://www.wago.com/us/wire-splicing-connectors/push-wire-connector-for-junction-boxes/p/773-173
https://www.wago.com/us/wire-splicing-connectors/push-wire-connector-for-junction-boxes/p/773-173
Dagny
Well-known member
put the wago on then chuck it in the drill then twistit then cut wago off then nut it.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
It's infinitely easier to use push-in connectors than those @!$# tiny wire nuts for ballast replacements. You can put the connectors on the ballast leads before climbing a ladder and just strip and plug the wires from the fixture in.
A real time saver
A real time saver
MatBirch
Well-known member
just to stir the pot a little hereLots of love here for the wagos, yet everyone poopoos the backstabbed receptacle and switch???
As for the original question- I was taught that you’re not even supposed to pre twist, but let the wires lay neatly next to one another, allowing the wire nut to do it’s job. Not that I haven’t a few over the years “fail” as I’m installing, but never had any actual failures that I’ve been made aware of.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
The only thing in common is they both use spring pressure to make contact.
Backstabbed device have a "V" notch cut into a razor sharp piece of spring brass perpendicular to the wire and that is all the contact area they have.
Wagos have curved contacts that run parallel to the wire and have MUCH more contact area
toolin' around
Well-known member
I stopped pre twisting a long time ago... push all four into the connector and they are going to twist naturally, assisted by the actual connector so they are conforming tightly inside the connect. Hold the wires back a little from the connector so the insulated wires are twisted a little as well. Just found that I get more reliable results that way, and it's quicker. (one less step.)