Civilian Auto Hobby Shop

Blue · Jul 15, 2006

Anyone ever thought of starting a civilian Auto Hobby Shop?

The only place I’ve ever seen Auto Hobby Shops are on military installations. It’s basically a well-equipped garage with several bays, lifts, basic tools, specialty tools, etc that you pay to use by the hour. You could also buy oil, filters, etc there.

Any one I’ve ever seen on a military base was always busy. Anyone know of any in the civilian world? Seems like it might be an interesting business to start up. Lots of folks out there are into cars, but not everyone has access to a nice set of tools, air compressor, lift, etc. Although I imagine paying for all the required liability insurance would be problematic.

Only place I’ve seen something similar in the civilian world was the garage in the Stephen King movie “Christine.”

Egan · Jul 15, 2006

I looked into this a while back with a friend who owned a shop and the liability wasn't worth it. The other thing that worried us was keeping track of tools.

milly · Jul 16, 2006

I remember that from "Christine" and thought that it was a good idea. There would to problems with insurance and keeping track of tools.

gahi · Jul 16, 2006

civilian = disrespectful.

brownbagg · Jul 16, 2006

we had one that was an old ammaco store, many lifts. It close because the people that would use it, had no money. lifts was $25 a hour. which was fine to swap a clutch, but can add up. lost a tool, you paid snap on retail. Then he would not let you use your tools. It was a good idea, just too big to make money, maybe a two lift building instead of 15. now the building is a church

Charles (in GA) · Jul 16, 2006

I suspect that in the military (never been, but lots of coworkers have and I've heard alot) that the comradship found in the service tend to make base auto hobby shops work. Probably one or two pretty good mechanics who like to just hang out and help the less skilled, and if you announce that you are going to do something at the hobby shop, someone else, with the necessary skills will tag along just to kill the time. I also suspect that there is much less abuse and damage and theft, you have the wrath of your CO and fellow servicemen to fear.

In the "real" world, most individuals (especially those who don't seem to have anything of their own) don't seem to fear anyone else or anything else, and think its Ok to abuse the property of others. Rules, what rules? You mean I can't leave that car on the lift for days on end while I'm out doing crack and trying to make enough money to buy the parts I need to finish the job???

Anyhow, you get the drift..... I don't see how it could work without a military mentality to "control" things.

Charles

Der Bugmeister · Jul 16, 2006

Also, the military clubs generally work on a 'break even' budget, sometimes with subsidies from base clubs funds. A private sector setup would need to turn a profit...

stimpy · Jul 16, 2006

like Charles said most people who would use something like that ussually have no responsability aspects, but in the military you are held accountable , and most guys who work on there own cars ussually have a buddy that they can count on for help or facilitys to do it at ( unless you are new to a community ) we have a guy who lives in a apartment (don't even think about changing a tire without getting fined type ) that comes over and helps us around the shop ( he actully was looking for someplace to have work done and wound up almost working for us ) and we let him use the facilities to work on his car he brings his own tools, parts and supplies and since he helps us we let him get the discount we get from our suppliers ( as long as he pays for it ) and he buys things we need for the shop at times ( brake clean , carbspray, lightbulbs , red rags ) . its funny as all the owners buddies have specailtys we need from time to time and wind up working at the shop . Now if my useless unresponsable neighbor ask to borrow tools . the answer is NO .

FireZapper · Jul 16, 2006

I thought of it when I retired back in 04. Then doing research I found out about insurance would kill any profit.

Plus charging for tool rental (like auto zone and such) then keeping the rental fee for damaged tools.

I think it would work alot better in small towns. Not for anything larger then say 2 or 3000 people.

happy hoppy · Jul 16, 2006

the closest thing that comes to mind is our car club.
we all have some tools, some guys more then others.
we share tools, time, talents and space its very cool to have your buddies out helping you get something done.

none of us have eveything, but many hands make light work.

your right about the respect thing, I could see tools that never come back and rental bills that don't get paid. its too bad, it could be something realy nice.

but a place we could go to to rent a car lift, frame table, spray both, ect would be grand.

the intimidator · Jul 17, 2006

Honda of canada mfg has a shop open to employs to work on there cars they have 4 lifts and 2 empty bays for cleaning/detailing ect ect they have all the tools there and you are required to sign them in and out. the best part is it is free you just need to sign out the time and a liability waiver. It works out really well and it is always booked solid.

I think it is a great idea you would need to have a lawyer rite up a contract excluding you from any and all liabilty as a result of incompetence or failure to follow safty rules also stating that you assume no ressponsibility for personal or property damage due to use of the facility's. your'e insurance may be affordable if you have all that coverd as you would only need to be coverd for mecanical failure's ex. you didnt service the hoist this month and it blows a hydrolic line and the safty fails to hold on one side resulting in a wrecked car and possible injurys

AS for the tool's have a video system covering the tool area so you can see who bring's what back and who doesnt. I would also need a copy of you're drivers license and a 100-150$ deposite on the tool's incase of breakage beyond normal wear and tear and for theft With the rite planning it could work out and you may be able to turn a profit after a few years running

banzaitoyota · Jul 17, 2006

I've thought long and hard about this very subject

Killers:
Insurance
Shrinkage
Tool Control
Dealing with dead projects

bmwpower · Jul 17, 2006

This sounds a nightmare waiting to happen. Not everyone is as conscientious as we are about tools, safety, ethics, etc. All it takes is one person to have an accident and you'd be sunk....even if it was their fault, you'd be stuck in court.

That being said, I've seen another idea that caught my eye and that was "exotic" car storage. This could make money as long as you have the place built properly (fire safety) and offer a good deal of ammenities. Not working on your car there though.

mleichtle · Jul 17, 2006

There are a couple around here, They call 'em tech colleges. :bounce:

RAYJAY · Jul 17, 2006

bmwpower said:
This sounds a nightmare waiting to happen. Not everyone is as conscientious as we are about tools, safety, ethics, etc. All it takes is one person to have an accident and you'd be sunk....even if it was their fault, you'd be stuck in court.

That being said, I've seen another idea that caught my eye and that was "exotic" car storage. This could make money as long as you have the place built properly (fire safety) and offer a good deal of ammenities. Not working on your car there though.

was thinking the same thing ......lol with the winters up here people are all ways looking for storage for the hotrods and colector cars.

Jeff

Ign · Jul 17, 2006

I always thought if you did this you wouldn't provide hand tools. Provide specialty tools for rental and provide the space, the lift and the air. But basic wrenches, ratchets, sockets, etc are the responsibility of the vehicle owner.

hell_fish_65 · Jul 17, 2006

I looked into this about 2 years ago. My plan was to rent or buy an old storage yard and rent out some units by the month and some by the day and have a tool rental that you signed in and out a tool that you didn't have.

JeepOnRock · Jul 17, 2006

I have a full-fledged business plan for something very similar. The insurance COULD be the killer, but I may have figured out a way to sidestep the worst of it. The biggest problem after that is the cost. A shop that would be a draw for anything but the most basic work is expensive to put together, and not cheap to maintain. Since I had to let go of the idea (didn't have $100k or the proper access to it) I have seen a couple of business plans for things I would have thought far more far-fetched.

As for the original post, the shop isn't workable as a business open to the public, unless you are in an area that you know all of your customers. However, to make it worth doing, you need a larger population center.

Marketing is pretty easy, and there are some tie-ins that could be utilized to make the venture grow to the required size... it's just that initial investment.

How about a Country Club for cars. Instead of golf, tennis and pools, have muscle cars, exotics and luxury cars available for check-out to members. Different levels of membership cost would allwo different amounts of time with different cars. Insurance would be provided by the member for the vehicle checked out. These are already operating in LA, NY, Miami and a few cities overseas (started in London).

Another one that I've heard about down in FL is a "Luxury Garage Condo." The buyer buys a condo for storing their car(s). It is owned and has a monthly maintenance fee (just like a condo). Think of a super luxury storage unit. I don't know that it has been built yet, but I do believe they are pre-selling.

OldOneEye · Jul 17, 2006

Up here they have a community centers that have done that with home repair tools (hey, if you can borrow a jack, jack stands, and some big tools many jobs are easy). You can rent for a very low fee big around the house tools (plumbing snakes, chain saws, etc.). The only thing close I have seen is some auto body shops will rent you time to paint your car in their booth. Outside of that, some idiot will probably see a jackpot at the end of the rainbow from a lawsuit.

Juan

lagomorph · Jul 26, 2006

I am a member of such a shop.
I've rented there for @ 8 years, it's basically a slot in a warehouse style floor of a building, and you provide your own stuff. Keep all my tools locked up, and work on VW's, so nobody else cares about them anyway...it's been a lifesaver for me...I really want my own space, but the 10x18 garage at home is as much as the property can hold, so I'm here until I can afford to get a nicer house.

KCHOTBOAT · Jul 26, 2006

I spent all my teen years at the auto shop on the base in Munich and did I miss it once I had to give up my ID card. My brother worked for a guy who was retired military that had shop for people to work on their cars. He only lasted about a year or so. This was in Leavenworth Ks so the town it nor the biggest and at the time the shop in Fort Leavenworth was free so with a great deal of the people being active duty or retired you where limited on renters.

428 · Jul 26, 2006

Digging into my memory archives here, but when we were on Ft Jackson many years ago seeing a friend, we had car trouble. We went to the local shop like you said and used it. What I remember is for tools you had to leave you car keys, license or something to check it out of the tool crib. No collateral, no tools. Seemed to work just fine.
You'd have to have someone work the tool crib to be able to offer it publicly, but it should work. Maybe a chain or locked garage door across the back of they bay they're renting, no returned tool, no unlocked door.

Calamari · Aug 1, 2006

Wow, I was just talking to a friend about this same deal the other day. There is just something about it that I think would really work!

1. waivers for injuries
2. contracts with local apt complexes to offer discounts to renters! (they get to offer a service to their renters and you know where they live!)
3. Each owner turns in keys for a tool clip (a loop that has 10 discs labeled for the bay... They turn in a disc for a tool, get the disc back when they return the tool... They get the keys back when they return a full clip, and they have cleaned up after themselves)
4. place should have hourly bays(some reserv only) and monthly bays (monthly bays are caged enclosures)
5. reservation system (secured with CC and small deposit) bay is released after 15 minute no-show and drive-ups are first come first served

I can dream can't I?

Luckydevil · Aug 1, 2006

I spent many a day at the Auto Hobby Shop at MCRD in San Diego. Probably one of the best perks for me personally when I was in the military. I could spend the whole day there and it only cost about $15.

Like previously mentioned though, the military guys are pretty well versed in mechanical things and not being dumbasses.

No way in hell would I open something like that up for the public. WAY too many stupid people and lawyers. A good lawyer can also get any signed waiver of liability thrown out in court.

Blue · Aug 1, 2006

It almost seems like it COULD be done, but someone would have to have some sort of motivation beyond just turning a profit. There are just too many easier ways to make money with a lot less liability.

Perhaps if someone ran a shop like that, but taught vo-tech classes at the same time, helping to educate underprivledged youth.

Jay H 237 · Dec 25, 2006

Here's one that exists out in California http://www.bayareamotorclub.com/aboutus.html

I read about it this morning at the VMF and just remembered this thread.

ZRX61 · Dec 25, 2006

A *friend* once rented some space in my 1000sq ft garage to swap out the Chevy SB in a 260Z. He said "it would take about 3 days"...

What he neglected to mention was that the 3 days would be spread over a period of 4 months... He finally came & picked the car up when I told him I was going to tow it out into the desert & burn the damn thing to the rims...

ZRX61 · Dec 25, 2006

Jay H 237 said:
Here's one that exists out in California http://www.bayareamotorclub.com/aboutus.html

I read about it this morning at the VMF and just remembered this thread.

It closed:
"PLEASE NOTE: BAMC closed on September 30th, 2006 and will remain closed while we look for a new facility. Please check back later for more news!"

kutza · Dec 26, 2006

When I lived in Greensboro NC, there was a huge aircraft hanger that was equiped with air, engine hoists and other big tools, for the local SCCA people. They parked their cars there and shared tools, ideas, and skills with each other. The whole compound was fenced off from the public, and was only known to the few in the automotive crowd. I believe there was probably a mthly fee but not sure of it. It had been there for a while, and probably still is there.
Again as mentioned before it worked out because there was trust, fellowmanship, and honor within all its users.

Coach James · Dec 27, 2006

I've lived most of my life near Ft. Bragg, NC and I think there is still a place like this on base. Being a federal facility, there is much greater control and accountability then a civilian operation would have. Also, it can be self insured where a private business could not be(unless the owner was brain dead). Unless a soldier goes awol, he can be found and forced to pay up.

Customers of my business sign waivers drawn by the US Gymnastics Federation(USGF), but that does not protect me from lawsuits. I may win the suit but I would still spend a fortune to defend myself possibly resulting in my being forced to close down.

Coach

Hawk231 · Feb 22, 2007

I go by this place on my way to and from work every day.
http://www.painterslane.com/

mulepackin · Feb 22, 2007

We had one at Montana State University when I went to college there in the early 80's. It operated just like has been described for the military installations. I think it worked for similiar reasons because you had to have a college ID to use the facility. If you didn't turn in tools etc. it was added to your tuition bill. No pay, no school, or diploma. Very well equipped, all Snap-on tools, and equipment including a lift. You could do anything you wanted to do as long as the veh. was in and out in a day. You could theoretically R and R an engine if you were quick, good and ready, or if you pulled it out and took it away at night. I think some guys did swap trannys and diffs. I don't know if it is still there.

zjrog · Apr 6, 2007

I gave that some consideration when I was unemployed a couple years ago. Even thought the relatively small town we lived in had a base with a good hobby shop, I though I could make it work. Basically I was looking into renting a 5 bay former Midas Muffler Shop, it still had 3 lifts at the time.

Three major issues crept up, and not initial financing. Liability insurance would have been nearly 3 times the rent I had discussed with the owner. The second was a simple matter of storage. There was limited storage in the shop, but there would have been absolutely no outdoor storage. The third, for me was the deal killer. California and all of its enviro rules would have been tough to comply with, period. I just couldn't afford for a client to have a hazmat moment that would have cost me 1000s or more.

SO when I found work, I still pursued the idea until enviro issues became the problem. The space is now a flooring and carpet store/warehouse...

And I retired from the Navy nearly 6 years ago. I've used auto hobby shops at nearly every installation I've been to. Now I live where the nearest base doesn't have a shop, and the two nearest shops are 45 and 65 miles away... Hence, I'm stocking my garage... Figures though. Now I don't have EASY acess to a shop, I'm getting more fabrication active!

jamesgpeck · Jul 22, 2007

I think Tom and Ray, the Car Gurs on NPR, otherwise known as Click and Clack started out as hippy era people running one of these. A lot of the people just wanted them to not only rent the space but do the work as well.

Jim Peck
http://parshop.blogspot.com

PhantomEB · Jul 22, 2007

http://www.u-wrench.ca/

I bet this is exactly what the original poster was looking for. The manager and part owner is a good friend of mine.

Jay H 237 · Jul 22, 2007

I'm glad to see there are a few places like that around. Not everybody has the space or cash for a lift or paint booth.

Mercnry · Oct 24, 2010

We are going to be opening one soon here in Charlottesville, VA
Putting together the last of the operating capital. It will work with the correct plan and that is what we have been working on for longer than I care to admit.

Kevin54 · Oct 24, 2010

Mercnry said:
We are going to be opening one soon here in Charlottesville, VA
Putting together the last of the operating capital. It will work with the correct plan and that is what we have been working on for longer than I care to admit.

Details of how you are going to charge, what kind of price you will charge per hour. Kind of interested in hearing this. I think the liability insurance would be a killer.

floyd · Oct 24, 2010

I've seen this place advertised in my area (Wash DC). No experience with them though.

http://www.ditymechanics.com/

babzog · Oct 24, 2010

The liability waiver might take care of the insurance premiums... might. Have to see, but if you place all responsibility on the customer, you might get away with just std business insurance.

Tool loss - easily rectified (assuming you rent out tools rather than requiring folks to bring their own) by taking a deposit (credit card) for the value (and to be fair, what you'd pay to replace it, not necessarily "retail" price) of the tool. If the tool comes back complete and undamaged, only the rental fee is charged. Damage and the odd breakage will occur but so what? Over time, rental fees will more than cover those costs (witness your typical tool rental facility - they're making money at it).

Lifts - I would think well known scissor lifts (Bendpack, etc) would be the best choice as they appear to be more idiot-proof, while offering most of the advantages of a two post (ie: you can still do brake/fuel line and exhaust work).

Deadbeats - unless prior arrangements with the facility operator are made, give 'em one night (or the weekend) on the lift (in case parts are on order), then out the door on a dolly (damages at the vehicle owner's expense). Vehicles left in the yard for more than a week will be confiscated and sold for scrap. Have that in a special disclaimer on the contract and have the customer acknowledge it by initialing it (like the LDW clause on a car rental).

Couple of things that noone's mentioned... what about parts disposal? Tires and other junk? Does the customer take that away or do you collect it and scrap it? Tires may be a PITA but the metal stuff could just be tossed in a bin and scrapped once a week or so. As well, cleanup - customers must ensure that all leaks are cleaned up, the benches are wiped down, tools are wiped down, the bay is swept, etc. Cleaning takes time, so if not done, add another hour to the bill.

Civilian Auto Hobby Shop

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Super Moderator

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member

Active member

Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

New member

MEMBER EMERITUS

Well-known member

Well-known member