In the beginning, there was... this thing

Inetmonkey · Sep 18, 2006

It all started when we bought the house. It had an attached garage that we had to take "as is" which included a cracked foundation and a sagging roof. But the price was right and it served its purpose, sortof. Some internal trusses kept me from cringing every time I walked in, but the slab... that was a problem. Anyone ever try to roll a big block motor on an engine stand across a 3" crack in the concrete? Not pretty. So 10 years and a lot of spider-chasing later, I'm beginning the journey toward my new garage.

We decided to go with a prefab to keep the costs down. A stick-built garage of the same dimensions would have cost 200% more (not kidding) than the prefab and taken 3x as long to build. My goal is to have this done before it starts raining so my engine hoist, stand, & chem locker don't rust away.

Here's what we're starting with. I call your attention to the double shake rooof, complete with missing shingles and asbestos sheeting. And check out that roofline. Can you say Chinese temple?

No, this picture isn't distorted. The siding is really curved like that. The gaping hole used to house a french door but the termites rid me of that about 3 years ago.

Here is where the problems start. This crack runs across to the opposite wall and down the footing. There's another one perpendicular to it, making a nice cross on the slab that has allowed the weight of the structure to push the four courners apart. There isn't a plumb or square corner in it.

This is where everything is staying while we rebuild. It was a little sad to know that my precious tools all fit into a 5x7x8 box. I must remember to buy many many more.

This envelope and the 3 pieces of paper inside it cost me $1900. They obviously are not shopping at Staples.

The demolition guys will be here as soon as the box is stored, so I'll update when the old beast is gone!

Toolmaann · Sep 18, 2006

Wow, that building's pretty beat... Look forward to seeing your new building go up!

(BTW, I have a friend in Antioch who's garage is twice as bad. Everytime I go over, I want knock the beast down)

DynoDave · Sep 19, 2006

Inetmonkey said:
Can you say Chinese temple?

ROFLMAO

You're definately due for an upgrade. Keep us posted. I'd like to see that pre-fab go together.

boiler7904 · Sep 19, 2006

Inetmonkey said:
It all started when we bought the house. It had an attached garage that we had to take "as is" which included a cracked foundation and a sagging roof. But the price was right and it served its purpose, sortof. Some internal trusses kept me from cringing every time I walked in, but the slab... that was a problem. Anyone ever try to roll a big block motor on an engine stand across a 3" crack in the concrete? Not pretty. So 10 years and a lot of spider-chasing later, I'm beginning the journey toward my new garage.

We decided to go with a prefab to keep the costs down. A stick-built garage of the same dimensions would have cost 200% more (not kidding) than the prefab and taken 3x as long to build. My goal is to have this done before it starts raining so my engine hoist, stand, & chem locker don't rust away.

Here's what we're starting with. I call your attention to the double shake rooof, complete with missing shingles and aspestos sheeting. And check out that roofline. Can you say Chinese temple?

No, this picture isn't distoreted. The siding is really curved like that. The gaping hole used to house a french door but the termites rid me of that about 3 years ago.

Here is where the problems start. This crack runs across to the opposite wall and down the footing. There's another one perpendicular to it, making a nice cross on the slab that has allowed the weight of the structure to push the four courners apart. There isn't a plumb or square corner in it.

This is where everything is staying while we rebuild. It was a little sad to know that my precious tools all fit into a 5x7x8 box. I must remember to buy many many more.

This envelope and the 3 pieces of paper inside it cost me $1900. They obviously are not shopping at Staples.

The demolition guys will be here as soon as the box is stored, so I'll update when the old beast is gone!

Do you really need demo guys? It looks like the building would fall down if you sneezed in its direction.

$1900 for a permit for a garage is kind of steep. Just remember it's not just for the permit, it also covers costs of inspections.

Good luck with the build. It will be interesting to see how it progresses.

wilbilt · Sep 19, 2006

Are they going to let you put the new one that close to the fenceline?

Inetmonkey · Sep 19, 2006

wilbilt said:
Are they going to let you put the new one that close to the fenceline?

Yep. We're zoned so I can build right up to the property line with zero overhangs and 1hr firewalls, but I'm leaving 18" so I can get around the sides and back if needed. Tight sqeeze with the beergut! :beer:

DynoDave · Sep 19, 2006

boiler7904 said:
Do you really need demo guys? It looks like the building would fall down if you sneezed in its direction.

$1900 for a permit for a garage is kind of steep. Just remember it's not just for the permit, it also covers costs of inspections.

Good luck with the build. It will be interesting to see how it progresses.

Yeah, I just pulled mine a few weeks ago, and it was $165.00. And I thought THAT was a lot! :wtf:

dfox1234 · Sep 19, 2006

$1900 for a permit is crazy.
Dean

erikstoll · Sep 19, 2006

dfox1234 said:
$1900 for a permit is crazy.
Dean

it is san jose though....

Der Bugmeister · Sep 19, 2006

Permit to add 722 sq ft to my house, along with major house renos, was only $350!

Guess ya gotta do what ya gotta do...

SCOOTER · Sep 19, 2006

My permit was about 1100.00 but 250.00 of that is a refundable "street cleaning deposit" :wtf:

wilbilt · Sep 20, 2006

Inetmonkey said:
Yep. We're zoned so I can build right up to the property line with zero overhangs and 1hr firewalls, but I'm leaving 18" so I can get around the sides and back if needed. Tight sqeeze with the beergut!

They like 30' here (wildland fire zone), but it can be reduced to 10' if certain conditions are adhered to.

It's something like "pick any three or more from this list"...

Non-combustible siding
Non-Combustible roofing
No openings on the property-line side (i.e., windows or doors)
No overhang on the property-line side
Fully enclosed eaves on the property-line side
24/7 monitored fire sprinkler system (yeah, right)
etc., etc.

Looking at the zoning map, it appears that those restrictions begin across the road from me...but the county says I have to adhere to them as well.

I was just curious, as you appear to be in a more densely-populated area...

HoosierBuddy · Sep 20, 2006

The permit to build my 3 car garage (and breezeway) was a hair over $27.00. It was so many cents per square foot. They made me figure the bill myself. There are no inspections though. I was on my own on that.

I thought twenty-seven dollars was about right.

Phil

PAToyota · Sep 20, 2006

In my borough, the cost is $15 per $1000 of construction with a $15 minimum.

Interesting to see how it is handled differently in different places - based on value, square footage, etc.

Inetmonkey · Oct 7, 2006

Q: What happens when you turn a couple of surly old men loose with a sawzall?
A: This...

That's right! The demolition is well underway after some major delays trying to deal with asbestos removal. The crappy thing is that neither the city nor the county seems to give a rat's bit about whether we removed it legally or not. After due diligence by my environmentally-friendly wife, we found a contractor to get rid of the **** safely. Here is the result:

It doesn't look like much, but that's 2 layers of nasty shingles and some severely toxic tar paper substance.

Some pics of the demolition in progress:

Those are pieces of siding holding up half of the garage. These guys have more balls than brains, methinks.

And last, but certainly not least, we have the spot where the garage used to be.

The slab comes up tomorrow and the foundation is going down next week. More photos soon!

DynoDave · Oct 7, 2006

A moment of silence for the passing of the Chinese temple.... :sad:

OK, enough of that! Great demo Rob. Things really moved pretty quickly. :beer:

wilbilt · Oct 7, 2006

Good show, Rob :thumbup:

I have done a few demolitions, and while it is great fun, it is always a little sad, too. Glad to hear you found an asbestos abatement contractor.

The school district I work for has been doing a lot of modernizaton projects over the past few years, and there has been a lot of asbestos abatement done. Those guys really know their stuff.

The Alchemist · Oct 7, 2006

In my township, if I stay under 500sq ft, it will only cost $40, and I don't need any inspections, which is problably the route I will go. I'd like to do a 20x24 (480 sqft) which is plenty of space for my t/a, John Deere, and work bench. That will free up the current 20x20 garage for simply parking the two daily drivers for the wifey and me.

If the size exceeds 500 sq. ft., a Building and a Zoning Permit are required. The cost of the building permit is calculated according to the square footage of the project. ($75.00 plus $0.30 per sq. ft. for permit fee, plus $5.00 UCC educational surcharge and $55.00 Zoning fee) and I'd have to do multiple inspections.

I'm not sure what way I'd go. I'm still evaluating if I really would need more than 480 sq ft in reality. Granted, everyone says to go bigger than you'd ever need, but I currently am working in a 20x20 with everything stored in there including all the lawn equipment, a refrigerator, air compressor, toolbox, work bench etc. So to be able to go with a 24x20 would be great.

Inetmonkey · Oct 18, 2006

It's been a while so I thought I'd post updates of my project. We're actually into the "build" phase now, with the demolition of the old garage complete and the new slab in place.

The remnants of the old garage. It took them 6 hours to take down the structure and about 40 to break up and haul away the old slab, but they didn't want to rent a jackhammer. No wonder it smelled like Ben-Gay around them...

With everything out of the way, the concrete guys came in and dug the footings for the new foundation.

These guys were real pros. It's a small slab, but I was impressed by how fast they dug and prepped everything.

Since the garage is about 100ft. back from the street, they had to pump the concrete back.

I won't bore everyone with the details of the pouring and finishing. Here's the finished product.

I was a little bugged about the cuts in the slab, but the ground here is so soft that cracked concrete is a question of "when" and not "if" even with the extra rebar that was added. If anyone has any recommendations for filling them with something that expands & contracts, I'd love to hear about them.

The extra cost of pumping the concrete 100ft back from the street was offset by the entertainment value of watching traffic pile up and seeing high-strung commuters blow their corks while waiting to go around the blocked lane. See, our street is very narrow (look past the guy in coveralls in the pumping picture) and only 25mph, but we get over 15,000 cars a day on their commute trying to bypass freeway traffic. The ongoing battle with the city to try and get some traffic abatement here has been going on for over 10 years.

Anyhow, the build will be starting in a week or so and I'll post more pics when I have them.

JMURiz · Oct 18, 2006

Inetmonkey said:
We decided to go with a prefab to keep the costs down. A stick-built garage of the same dimensions would have cost 200% more (not kidding) than the prefab and taken 3x as long to build.

Foundation looks nice, congrats.
My question is, what type of prefab building are you using? My brother is interested in a smaller garage also (zoning) and I was wondering how to keep his costs down as well. Thanks.

wilbilt · Oct 18, 2006

Looks great, Rob.

Are you planning to run Network, Voice, and Video out there...?

Inetmonkey · Oct 18, 2006

Progress on my 18'x20' detached garage...

JMURiz said:
Foundation looks nice, congrats. My question is, what type of prefab building are you using? My brother is interested in a smaller garage also (zoning) and I was wondering how to keep his costs down as well. Thanks.

Thanks Nathan. I can't wait to see it with some lumber put up. The company doing the building is Tuff-Shed. They had quite a few options for garages and have been pretty good to work with so far. Your brother should be able to find something he likes for a decent price.

wilbilt said:
Looks great, Rob. Are you planning to run Network, Voice, and Video out there...?

Thanks Will. Yes to 'Net and Voice, but not video. There are 2 lines buried just below ground near the electrical service that will get pulled in when we're done. One will be for a gigabit net link and the other for voice and intercom lines.

wilbilt · Oct 18, 2006

Re: Progress on my 18'x20' detached garage...

Inetmonkey said:
Yes to 'Net and Voice, but not video. There are 2 lines buried just below ground near the electrical service that will get pulled in when we're done. One will be for a gigabit net link and the other for voice and intercom lines.

That's great! Something that is often overlooked until it's all paved over. Not to worry, there will be video over that gig link before too long...

Tuff Shed does good work. We have had several buildings set up by them at the school sites, and they are punctual, competent, and fast. The latest was a 20x24...done in about 8 hours. :bowdown:

DynoDave · Oct 18, 2006

Looks good Rob! Can't wait to see that building.

So what sort of wire do you guys recomend a person bury? I know I want phone lines, and cable TV. Anything else?

wilbilt · Oct 18, 2006

DynoDave said:
Looks good Rob! Can't wait to see that building.

So what sort of wire do you guys recomend a person bury? I know I want phone lines, and cable TV. Anything else?

Conventional wisdom was saying two CAT5, two RG6 coax and 12 strand fiber...but that was a few years ago.

It's hard to anticipate where the technology is going, but some empty conduit space would be a cheap way to insure you can keep up.

I would do two CAT6 runs and one coax at least, plus an empty 1" conduit (with a pull line preinstalled).

Inetmonkey · Oct 18, 2006

wilbilt said:
Conventional wisdom was saying two CAT5, two RG6 coax and 12 strand fiber...but that was a few years ago.

It's hard to anticipate where the technology is going, but some empty conduit space would be a cheap way to insure you can keep up.

I would do two CAT6 runs and one coax at least, plus an empty 1" conduit (with a pull line preinstalled).

Pretty much exactly what I would recommend except for the fiber. Fiber really isn't worth the trouble and expense unless you have to go a REALLY long way. Remember that you can get gigabit speeds (1 billion bits per second) with twisted pair copper and that FAR exceeds the speed of any residential Internet connection (usually 1.5-5 million bits per second). The second Cat3-6 is good for voice lines, alarm systems, intercoms, etc. The extra conduit is a good idea too, especially once you dig the trench. It's easy to drop one more pipe in the hole.

Will, the laptop that's going out in the garage has a DVD player and you're right about the gig link carrying video (TiVo rules), so I figure that's enough.

wilbilt · Oct 18, 2006

Inetmonkey said:
Will, the laptop that's going out in the garage has a DVD player and you're right about the gig link carrying video (TiVo rules), so I figure that's enough.

Rob, I was thinking more along the lines of ATT Lightspeed or Verizon FIOS. Voice, TV, and Internet on one fiber connection to the home. Who knows what else in the future (remote automotive diagnostics?)

You may be in an area that will have those capabilites soon. It's doubtful it will ever show up here. I can't get DSL or cable, and am paying $120+/month for 128k ISDN.

I think an empty pipe at least is good insurance.

Down Under Bloke · Oct 19, 2006

Northern Australia is prone to lightening strikes, so betweens buildings it’s all fibre it’s like this
Copper :shocking:

---

----

Fibre

---

Something to think about

DynoDave · Oct 19, 2006

wilbilt said:
Conventional wisdom was saying two CAT5, two RG6 coax and 12 strand fiber...but that was a few years ago.

It's hard to anticipate where the technology is going, but some empty conduit space would be a cheap way to insure you can keep up.

I would do two CAT6 runs and one coax at least, plus an empty 1" conduit (with a pull line preinstalled).

Thanks guys. For a total non-home electrical/gadget sort of guy...what are all these? :headscrat

CAT 5 whould be for???? RG6 coax????

toxicz28 · Oct 19, 2006

DynoDave said:
CAT 5 whould be for???? RG6 coax????

Cat 5: data/voice
RG6: cable tv

JMURiz · Oct 19, 2006

DynoDave said:
So what sort of wire do you guys recomend a person bury? I know I want phone lines, and cable TV. Anything else?

I just burried a 2" PVC pipe, so I can run any wire I want in it, and add on more later if I need.

I plan to have a Coax line, a regular phone line and a Romex line so I can turn on the outside garage lights from inside the house.

Just something to think about.

Inetmonkey · Oct 19, 2006

wilbilt said:
Rob, I was thinking more along the lines of ATT Lightspeed or Verizon FIOS. Voice, TV, and Internet on one fiber connection to the home. Who knows what else in the future (remote automotive diagnostics?)

Ah, good point! Most cable companies are going to fiber for their main transmission lines. I haven't seen any that actually go into the homes yet; that might be because it's tricky to work with and they don't want the "regular" techs to fool with it or it just hasn't been pushed that far. As you said, it's hard to tell what the future of technology holds.

wilbilt said:
You may be in an area that will have those capabilites soon. It's doubtful it will ever show up here. I can't get DSL or cable, and am paying $120+/month for 128k ISDN.

Not something I'd actually want though. My Internet needs are a bit more advanced than most broadband providers can accomodate, but I'm not going to bore everyone with a breakdown of my choices of ISP>

wilbilt said:
I think an empty pipe at least is good insurance.

There's no question of it. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, right?

DynoDave · Oct 19, 2006

Inetmonkey said:
Ah, good point! Most cable companies are going to fiber for their main transmission lines. I haven't seen any that actually go into the homes yet; that might be because it's tricky to work with and they don't want the "regular" techs to fool with it or it just hasn't been pushed that far. As you said, it's hard to tell what the future of technology holds.

Not something I'd actually want though. My Internet needs are a bit more advanced than most broadband providers can accomodate, but I'm not going to bore everyone with a breakdown of my choices of ISP>

There's no question of it. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, right?

Thanks again guys. Looks like I'm off to find a place to buy wire/cable. Sorry to hijack your thread, Inetmonkey.

wilbilt · Oct 20, 2006

Inetmonkey said:
Not something I'd actually want though. My Internet needs are a bit more advanced than most broadband providers can accomodate, but I'm not going to bore everyone with a breakdown of my choices of ISP>

I don't know about you, but I think I could get by with gigabit fiber to my front door...at a consumer price. :bounce:

I may have to go back to dialup soon, because the cost of the ISDN is killing me. It will make it imposssible to work from home, but since I don't get paid for that anyway... :headscrat

972500 · Oct 20, 2006

someone said somthing about remote diagnostics? form my understanding, i dont know if it s right now or they are working on it, but ONStar can do all that. so like if your broke down on the side of the road they know wahts wrong and find the closted dealer adn see if the parts in stock and everything. the dealer i used to work at as a detail boy got calls from onstar a few times to set up service apponitment for people that were broke down on the side of the road. just a thought
Mark

Inetmonkey · Nov 19, 2006

Construction Update

I have a garage! w00t! I can actually walk into it and not get rained on. Go figure. They showed up last Monday and by the end of the day the frame was up and it was almost fully sheathed with plywood.

Here is the jigsaw puzzle that was delivered on Monday morning.

After about 2 hours work:

I missed the actual raising of the trusses, but due to how quickly they went up, I don't think I missed much.

It's basically an enlarged single-car garage. Here's the view looking out at my lovely aged driveway. I get to deal with that project in the Spring.

I have a 5' x 12' x 20' attic storage area built into the trusses. No more Christmas junk laying about underfoot.

This is where we stand now; waiting for the framing/firewall/shear inspection so it can be weatherproofed. The door is your basic steel-clad Home Depot cheapie that will be replaced by a dutch door later.

More updates this week!

sharpshooter · Nov 19, 2006

I see X's dangit

Down Under Bloke · Nov 19, 2006

Looks ok (no X's) to me.

Standing inside your new sanctuary for the first time is a moving experience. Well done

sharpshooter · Nov 19, 2006

X's are gone WOOHOO

Inetmonkey · Nov 20, 2006

sharpshooter said:
X's are gone WOOHOO

Yes, I'm sorry about that. I like putting the pictures into the posts but it pulls those images from my webserver and we had a power outage today. All better now.

In the beginning, there was... this thing

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