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What is the best way to prep garage floor for epoxy?

TaSK

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I am new to the forum, I just read a few posts today and found that everyone has different methods for prepping their floor. I just bought my town house and would like to have a nice garage. I was planning to use a diamond grinder on the concrete and cover any small cracks that I might have (dont know what product to use for that yet). After using the diamond grinder, I plan to etch it and scrub the concrete real good with this big industrial broom that I bought. I then plan on waiting for a day after I dry it with a leaf blower and fan. After it has dried for a day, I will then use primer on the floor. After all that, I then plan on using the two part epoxy on the floor and waiting for 72 hours for it to dry. Does this sound like a solid plan or should I do more? I don't want my floor to mess up after all my hard work. Let me know what you guys think, I plan on doing this on Saturday.

This is the first day I saw the forum and first time posting, I apologize if I posted in the incorrect section.:bowdown:
 
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Texas Aggie

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Sounds like a solid plan, if not overkill. I'm not sure etching is needed if you use a diamond grinder. Others on here know much more than I do, and will hopefully chime in before Saturday.
 
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AlphaGarage

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Welcome to our humble garage!

A diamond grinder is a good way to prep. Grinding followed by etching is a belt and suspenders wardrobe, no harm but...

There are quite a few tips and tricks that are global enough that they apply to most all situations. But as for the exact application process different coatings have different requirements and guidelines. It's dangerous to rely on specific directions from people on the internet who may not be familiar with your particular product. Read and follow the instructions that came with your coatings.
 

spraytask

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LOL task's wife here.. I was going to join & post the same thing but he beat me to it...!!

The product we bought is the Quikrete kit from Lowe's. We can always return it and get something else if that is a bad product.. but we just did alot of other remodeling and don't have a huge budget for this part..

I had an additional question - can EnduraShield be used on epoxy..? I keep seeing it used on this forum.. and it sounds amazing.. but I'm getting the impression it's not used for epoxy.. Problem is that we can't find the Quikrete High Gloss Sealer anywhere and the guy at Lowe's said they are re-formulating and good luck finding it right now.. I would use the clear epoxy but I heard it yellows after about a year.. and also having a hard time finding that one.. what can we use..?

One more - does it generally take more than 1 coat ? In reading the reviews I noticed that some people had problems.
 

TheBanker

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Personally, so far, all I like that you have said, is the prep work. But prep work is the most important part of the whole project. If you tell us more of what you plan on using the garage floor for and maybe a pic or two we can give you more ideas. I was in home depot buying the box store epoxy when I said, wait, let me research this a bit. Do some research on epoxy products. Learn thickness and durability. Investigate 100% solids epoxy and what a difference that may make. But most important is what do you want to do in the garage, how long do you want the floor to last and how much do you want to pay.
 
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TaSK

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Well I first purchased this, http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...l&recN=118411+4294965117&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber

It is epoxy, one part by Behr. Then I was told that 2 part is better and is for serious floors that want epoxy paint to last so I went and bought this

http://www.lowes.com/pd_97939-4-002.0050032.022_0_?productId=3079395&Ntt=epoxy&Ntk=i_products&pl=1&currentURL=/pl__0__s?newSearch=true$Ntt=epoxy$y=0$x=0

I still kept the primer from Behr and plan on using it with this product. Do you know if this product is any good or suggest a better one? I just want my floor to look nice and clean. I would like it to last for many years to come and willing to spend if needed.
 

TheBanker

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I guess it comes down to how much you want to spend. The box store products are of course the least quality products available. Calculate how much you will have to spend on using several layers of that product. Some here have used those successfully. You may have to put a couple layers of it for good coverage which then increases the price. How many sq ft do you have? Will you be parking cars on it? What type of abuse will the floor take? Do you want it glossy? Do you want flakes?

Fred from Alpha Garage above has a top of the line product, Wolvierene. Rugerlady, on here has a 100% solids product which is one of the least expensive 100% solids epoxy, epoxy-coat.

After all my research I decided against the Lowes and Home Depot products because I was not sure they would last and the rumors about hot tire pickup. They may fit your needs though. The most important thing is to prep properly and follow directions of the product correctly.

I used the epoxy-coat and am happy. Many have used wolverine and are happy and some the box store stuff and happy. Search these threads for those products. Most of us have pics too.
 
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AlphaGarage

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Just dealing with facts here...

Looking at the Quikcrete Product Information bulletin for their epoxy 02-50032A, by volume it's 41% solids, the remaining 59% is an extender, in this case that additive is water. When applied at their spec of 6 mils wet, after it dries it's a total of 2.4 mils thick. That's thinner than a sheet of typical copy paper.

If you carefully read the posts here you'll find a number of people who have used these thii coatings. Yes, there are floors that are holding up well. But there are many where the DIYer says they did a good job of prepping, but the coating has failed by lifting or just wearing through to concrete. So you take your chances.

I do not know of any pro contractor who would stand behind a coating that isn't at least 5 times thicker, and in a active shop with any real work going on they'll usually spec at minimum 20+ mils. Sometimes in life there is no substitute for size and bigger is better.
 
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TaSK

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AG do you sell the epoxy? If so what is the top of your line product and how much? I am want a floor that will last, I have two cars and a dog. The Sqft is about hmm 300? Its a two car garage with one door not two.
 
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TaSK

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LOL, I am slow. I just realized thebanker was talking about you. I saw your website and I am definately interested. I just need some one to tell me about all the levels of epoxy and the difference between prices and quality.
 

mp23

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Apr 13, 2010
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I can speek for the Rustoleum beasue I have it. I would give it a c grade.
If I were to do it over I would go with somethig a little better like the U coat it or some other commerical brand but it's ok. For the price you can recoat it a few times compared to the others.

If you go the home store route I would use the optional clear coat, it does hold up better. On mine I park the cars in there so it's subject to all sorts of road grime and salt in the winter. It holds up very good against oil but brake fluid will make it bubble if left on there. If you are using it as a woodworking type shop with light vehicle traffic it will be more than up to the task. I wold also recommend using a thicker roller than the directions recommend and not park any vehicles on it for a week if you can help it.
 

Hogan's Hero

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TaSK: I would suggest that you start by reading the thread here on flooring options and prices...at the top of the page. I started there and went to the various web sites. You do learn to the point of overload. There is a wide range of factors to consider including condition of your floor, what you plan on doing on it, longevity and cost. It seems that most would say that they would love to have the best. Those who do swear by it. This is a great place to learn. I would suggest you spend so prep time before you start on your floor. I suspect in the long run, you will be much happier. :thumbup:
 
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TaSK

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I did and they do post the prices and the brands but their not ranked or graded. I need to know what people rate them. Like what is the best reliable brand?
 

AlphaGarage

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I'm going to say that for the money I know we have the best coatings available for the DIYer. But another vendor will come along and make the same claim. In the end you'll have to do your own due diligence. Read the user reviews here and elsewhere, check out the specs, do the math where required, read the MSDS and product data sheets, etc.

And review the manufacturers claims - just realize that all of us, obviously myself included, have a vested interest in tooting our own horns - and judge them accordingly.

With that warning, here's me tooting my horn...

...what is the top of your line product and how much?

Our "top of the line" has infused titanium, goes down over 250 mils thick, weighs a ton, is blast proof, and cost over $300 per square foot. Installation is extra.

Clearly that's a coating for strictly extreme commercial environments, in fact I'd guess that over 97% of Wolverine's output goes to commercial contractors for industrial and commercial uses - floors, tank linings, pipe linings, secondary containments, etc. That's good for our DIY floor products because our do it yourself home owners and small business owners benefit from that research, high end raw materials, and experience. The products available to you and other DIYers are some of the exact ones that make up a good percentage of those commercial sales.

Many of the over 1,000 coatings in the WCC catalog are top coats for varying environments, but underneath most all of them is a coat of BondTite 1101, the same primer we spec for garage floors.

One downside to the commercial nature of most of our sales is that a lot of our products aren't packaged for smaller orders, and due to package sizing sadly 300 square feet is the exact opposite side from our pricing sweet spot.

For an area 300 ft2 you would need 1.5 gallons of Bondtite 1101 primer, a 100% solids epoxy. Next, the top coat would be LiquaTile 1184, and finally the clear coat 1.25 gallons of EduraShield 2254. Our specs call for a minimum combined coating of 21 mils, but due to packaging sizes 300 ft2 would be coated at 30.07 mils (wet without waste factored in). 300 feet has the distinction of being the thickest system at spec, which means that at $570 for the coatings it's $1.90 per square foot, our priciest $/ft2 point (other areas sizes get down to $1.29/ft2). The upside is it's also the thickest coating.

Besides just the thickness there's also the composition of the materials to consider. I've mentioned that the BondTite primer not only mechanically adheres to concrete, but it also penetrates and actually chemically bonds to the concrete. In fact it's also extensively used to prime metals, including stainless steel.

The common wisdom is that prep is everything. And yes, preparation is key. But there are plenty of posts here about people who prepped well, but still their coating failed. On the other end there are at least two users who have posted that with their projects some BondTite seeped onto parts of the floor that had zero preparation, not cleaned at all. Later they went to remove the B ondTite, and they both had to chisel it off, and even then it came up with chunks of concrete still attached. So while prep is important, a quality primer will help insure long term success even if a spot or two received less than ideal preparation.

Keep in mind that with pretty much all coatings the preparation and application is really almost all the same. Clearly a 3 coat system is one coat more work than a 2 coat system, but the preparation, mixing, masking, measuring and application are very similar, the exact times, depths etc may vary some, but at the core all 2 component coatings are very similar in application. Some manufacturers do seem to simplify their instruction, no doubt to not scare away DIYers who might be intimidated with detailed instructions. All that aside - always read and follow the instructions that came with your product.

LiquaTile is also a top notch product. When you look at that Quikcrete product you mentioned it weighs 9 lb per gallon (note that 54% of that is water, which will evaporate into thin air), in contrast LiquaTile 1184 weighs about 12 pounds per gallon (all solids - 100% of what you buy and apply protects your floor), some of that extra heft is due to ceramic content. Even mediocre epoxies are hard, but just as glass is hard epoxy can also be, just like glass is, brittle, which makes them chip and crack. LiquaTile's ceramic content allows the LiquaTile to be very hard, but remain a bit flexible, even years after it's fully cured. So when something is dropped, or even a heavy object moved or dragged across the coating, the LiquaTile absorbs some of that shock, impact, and movement, diffusing it before it impacts the concrete. The result is less chance of concrete chip outs, divots and dings, and less chance of the epoxy failure lifting at the concrete line. If your work environment has an extreme amount of floor punishment (high ton forklift, abrasive wheels, skid traffic etc.) we do have LiquaTile varieties with even higher concentrations of ceramic content - just ask.

Is this overkill for a home garage? Could be. But flaking and lifting can happen even with nothing but foot traffic, or even with no traffic at all. But ultimately just like buying a car or a pair of shoes you need to weigh all factors - cost, your time, the effort required, and decide on a solution that works for you.

Finally there's an ingredient that's not listed on the MSDS or discussed in the Product Data Sheet - Customer Service. Hopefully everything goes well and you won't need to call customer service, but if you do need to call, it's good to know someone's there to help.
 
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BillGalbraith

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Also, the primer I plan on using is by Behr.

I am just getting ready to do my floors, and I looked into etchers. The Behr product is okay, but you have to neutralize it with ammonia and water after it etches.

Several people that I've talked to that did their own floors in the past, sometime in the distant past, complained of the etcher that they used. Upon futher questioning, it turned out that they use hydrocloric acid. It's cheap, but pretty nasty stuff. If you don't have great ventilation, you need to wear a respirator. You also have to worry about clean-up afterwards. I didn't look into it deep enough to see if you have to neutralize it when it if finshed, and also didn't want it washing out over my nice new concrete driveway.

The product I chose to go with was the H&C concrete etcher, which I found at Sherwin-Williams.

http://www.hcconcrete.com/products/solid-color-stains/Etching_Solution/index.jsp

Read the product data sheet on this, or anything else that you plan on using. This stuff is a little more expensive, but in my opinion, it's worth the extra money for the ease with which it goes down, and time saved cleaning up later, and not having all the really nasty chemicals around.

I cannot stress enough that you need to READ READ READ, and know the products that you are considering. I've run across too many guys at paint stores, Homie D, etc. that say something that isn't completely true. Just yesterday, when I was picking up my 7 gallons of etcher, one of the paint salesmen said that I didn't need 7 gallons because the H&C etcher could be dilluted. The instructions say that if your floor has a trowel finish with closed pores, you need to use it full strength. Otherwise, you can dilute it up to 2 gal water to one gal etcher. He didn't like it when I knew more about his product than he did. Hopefully, he will study up so that he can advise the next customer correctly.

I'll report back on my experience with the H&C etcher.
 

spraytask

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Can the bondtite, liquatile, and edurashield be purchased at any stores or only online..?
 

spraytask

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Also do you think the diamond grinder is necessary..? Our floor is only about 20-25 years old and looks OK for the most part. It costs a bit more to rent than we expected.
 

AlphaGarage

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Can the bondtite, liquatile, and edurashield be purchased at any stores or only online..?

We consider ourselves fortunate to be the exclusive distributors for Wolverine Coatings to the DIY and small business (floors under 10k) market.

Also do you think the diamond grinder is necessary..? Our floor is only about 20-25 years old and looks OK for the most part. It costs a bit more to rent than we expected.

Grinding or shot blasting is the best way to profile a floor, but in most cases acid etching is sufficient. Our commercial contractors will usually grind or shot blast, but will also acid etch in some cases.

How much are you being quoted to rent a grinder? Although rental rates are all over the board, usually you can find a grinding set up for under $200/day.
 
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