Help: Did builder leave new construction garage floor unfinished?

Maybe I am crazy, or maybe I don't know anything about home construction but I need the advice of some professionals.

My girlfriend's new construction home was built less than a year ago. I noticed from the first time that I saw the garage that something didn't seem right.

This garage has some Garage Journal potential down the road, but basically there are two problems we are wanting to talk to the builder about but I need to know if they dropped the ball or if the expectations are wrong. I'd appreciate any advice very much!

1. The slab in the garage is very rough in texture. It dusts indefinitely. It's my interpretation that the floor was troweled flat but never surfaced and sealed. Even if sealing is not their responsibility, there is no way it's current texture is ready for use. Everything in the garage turns white when you place it on the floor. Shoes, everything. Please see the photos for what I mean. Girlfriend also looked at her neighbors' garages and said they were smoother (they haven't sealed yet either). Did the builder miss a step?

2. The drywall is even down to the concrete footer (I guess the foundation of the remainder of the house?) but on the left wall the footer slopes down in such a way that the drywall eventually has a 1.5-2inch gap between it and the footer. The footer also is recessed just behind the drywall all around the garage but eventually sticks out past the drywall where this gap is greatest. Meaning, if we were to put baseboarding all around it would work perfectly until this left wall is reached and the baseboarding would not meet up flush against the drywall. Am I crazy or is this poor craftsmanship? Don't worry, you won't hurt my feelings. Please see pictures below.

























Footer is behind the drywall all around the garage like this:



Footer at the larger gap extends out beyond the drywall:

subscribing, but that floor looks rough

looks like when concrete freezes around here. is it brittle? like can u take a screw driver and chip away at it easy?

turbotank said:

looks like when concrete freezes around here. is it brittle? like can u take a screw driver and chip away at it easy?

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Haven't tried chipping at it and I'm also not sure in what season the garage floor was poured. We are typically only in freezing temps from mid-Dec through March around here.

def a ****** job on the crete, must have gotten wet after it was poured, as far as chaulky... take a power washer to it and wash out the whole garage should help then, etch it and seal it.the one wall was poured thicker prob the outter wall and thats why your slab sticks out. they do that around here all the time... doesnt mean its right though.

Don't know what, but definately something gone wrong...

They gotta do somthing with that floor, Thats not right.......

As a builder the concrete to me looks like ****, poor pour, poor finish job, I don't like how chalky the floor looks. Also the drywall in question looks iffy, if I were the builder I wouldn't have sold the house unless the drywall was down to the footer; at least they put in a sill seal (blue / green foam in last pic).

One more thought on the garage floor, did they saw cut or tool any control joints into the slab for expansion and contraction? I don't see any and if there are none they for sure missed a step.

Was the home built by a custom builder OR was it a production builder, think Beazer, Richmond American, Pulte?

Looks like they were a bit short on drywall screws as well....

concrete is crappy work without a doubt and if what I see on the walls is the tape and bed work, they really shorted you on screws/nails unless glueing is what the do in your neck of the woods, just looks strange to me.

cowboyjosh said:

As a builder the concrete to me looks like ****, poor pour, poor finish job, I don't like how chalky the floor looks. Also the drywall in question looks iffy, if I were the builder I wouldn't have sold the house unless the drywall was down to the footer; at least they put in a sill seal (blue / green foam in last pic).

One more thought on the garage floor, did they saw cut or tool any control joints into the slab for expansion and contraction? I don't see any and if there are none they for sure missed a step.

Was the home built by a custom builder OR was it a production builder, think Beazer, Richmond American, Pulte?

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I think the builder was a local or regional builder. They were doing the entire subdivision I believe. I'm positive it wasn't a national builder. Not a custom job though. She picked the house out of inventory because it was a better deal than building at the time. She's going to send me that info.

The 1 year warranty phase is closing at the end of May so we are trying to talk the builder about the biggest flaws to get them rectified before then. This is really the most glaring, everything else is a pretty nice job.

At the precast plant i work at when the guys put tarps on too soon it kinda looks like that. But is could be if it got cold when they poured it. Its called Efflorescence. Its worse on colored concrete but happens in all concrete. Here is an article

CONCRETE CONSTRUCTION MAGAZINE
Publication date: December 1, 2005

By Joe Nasvik

Efflorescence occurs with all concrete and is the most frequent problem that concrete contractors face with colored concrete. Owners don't care about “plain” concrete, but colored concrete is another matter. They complain that their contractor didn't give them the color they ordered, and sometimes they withhold payment.

Efflorescence is caused when soluble salts and other water dispersible materials come to the surface of concrete and mortars. It's induced by low temperatures, moist conditions, condensation, rain, dew, and water added to the surface of fresh concrete to assist troweling. It can occur very soon after exposure to moist or cool conditions or gradually, especially when it comes from within the concrete or from the subgrade.

Any material containing portland cement results in efflorescence. The most usual reaction occurs when calcium hydroxide (lime) formed in the hydration reaction of portland cement (approximately 140 pounds per cubic yard of concrete) is transported by water to the surface through capillaries in the concrete. There it combines with carbon dioxide from the air to produce calcium carbonate (an insoluble material) and water. But efflorescence can also be caused by hydroxides and sulfates of either sodium or potassium, which are much more soluble in water than calcium. And they form efflorescence more rapidly than calcium hydroxide. These salts can come from cement, aggregates, water, or admixtures.

Efflorescence is normally white and shows up more on darker colors than white or light gray because of the contrast. Only 0.2 ounce of calcium carbonate per square yard of surface is needed to cause a significant shift in color. Some forms are very difficult (if not impossible) to remove, while others are easy—especially if they are removed right after they form.

Removing efflorescence
The easiest time to remove calcium hydroxide efflorescence is before it combines with carbon dioxide. Up to this time it will dissolve in water, so pressure washing or wet scrubbing will put it in solution with water so it can be rinsed away. You must be careful to rinse the surface with fresh water so that no residue is left to dry on the concrete. Use an air jet or a wet vacuum to remove any standing water. Any remaining solution will cause new efflorescence to appear.

When efflorescence proceeds to the calcium carbonate phase, it becomes insoluble and is much more difficult to remove—perhaps impossible. The application of a mild acid solution becomes the first course of action. These acids include vinegar (5% acetic acid), muriatic acid, or citric acid. Muriatic acid is purchased in full strength and must be diluted. So it's the most dangerous, requiring proper safety gear.

After acid washing, slabs should be rinsed thoroughly and neutralized with baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) or an equivalent. Acid residues can harm plants. The reaction products of acid on concrete are all soluble calcium and iron salts, which can cause more efflorescence.

When efflorescence can't be removed with acid washes, other commercial products are available. One is ethylenediamine tetraacetic acid (EDTA), which rapidly dissolves calcium salts. EDTA will also damage concrete, so it's best to test it on an inconspicuous sample area first.

Preventing efflorescence
There are a few things you can do to reduce the possibility of efflorescence. Including either Class-F fly ash or metakaolin can lock up significant amounts of calcium hydroxide in the concrete. And as stated earlier, the efflorescence reaction is driven by water, either water from above or below a slab. Only vapor barriers can prevent the movement of moisture from the subgrade to the surface of a slab. And the application of sealers and coatings can prevent surface water from penetrating slabs. Apply them as soon as surfaces are clean and dry.

A final thought
Efflorescence naturally occurs on all concrete. Part of the problem—and the solution—may have to do with the way we sell colored concrete. Customers often have the idea that their concrete will have uniform color. But they should be sold on the idea that concrete has variable color, providing interest and the impression of color depth.

At the precast plant i work at when the guys put tarps on too soon it kinda looks like that. But is could be if it got cold when they poured it. Its called Efflorescence. Its worse on colored concrete but happens in all concrete. Here is an article

CONCRETE CONSTRUCTION MAGAZINE
Publication date: December 1, 2005

By Joe Nasvik

Efflorescence occurs with all concrete and is the most frequent problem that concrete contractors face with colored concrete. Owners don't care about “plain” concrete, but colored concrete is another matter. They complain that their contractor didn't give them the color they ordered, and sometimes they withhold payment.

Efflorescence is caused when soluble salts and other water dispersible materials come to the surface of concrete and mortars. It's induced by low temperatures, moist conditions, condensation, rain, dew, and water added to the surface of fresh concrete to assist troweling. It can occur very soon after exposure to moist or cool conditions or gradually, especially when it comes from within the concrete or from the subgrade.

Any material containing portland cement results in efflorescence. The most usual reaction occurs when calcium hydroxide (lime) formed in the hydration reaction of portland cement (approximately 140 pounds per cubic yard of concrete) is transported by water to the surface through capillaries in the concrete. There it combines with carbon dioxide from the air to produce calcium carbonate (an insoluble material) and water. But efflorescence can also be caused by hydroxides and sulfates of either sodium or potassium, which are much more soluble in water than calcium. And they form efflorescence more rapidly than calcium hydroxide. These salts can come from cement, aggregates, water, or admixtures.

Efflorescence is normally white and shows up more on darker colors than white or light gray because of the contrast. Only 0.2 ounce of calcium carbonate per square yard of surface is needed to cause a significant shift in color. Some forms are very difficult (if not impossible) to remove, while others are easy—especially if they are removed right after they form.

Removing efflorescence
The easiest time to remove calcium hydroxide efflorescence is before it combines with carbon dioxide. Up to this time it will dissolve in water, so pressure washing or wet scrubbing will put it in solution with water so it can be rinsed away. You must be careful to rinse the surface with fresh water so that no residue is left to dry on the concrete. Use an air jet or a wet vacuum to remove any standing water. Any remaining solution will cause new efflorescence to appear.

When efflorescence proceeds to the calcium carbonate phase, it becomes insoluble and is much more difficult to remove—perhaps impossible. The application of a mild acid solution becomes the first course of action. These acids include vinegar (5% acetic acid), muriatic acid, or citric acid. Muriatic acid is purchased in full strength and must be diluted. So it's the most dangerous, requiring proper safety gear.

After acid washing, slabs should be rinsed thoroughly and neutralized with baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) or an equivalent. Acid residues can harm plants. The reaction products of acid on concrete are all soluble calcium and iron salts, which can cause more efflorescence.

When efflorescence can't be removed with acid washes, other commercial products are available. One is ethylenediamine tetraacetic acid (EDTA), which rapidly dissolves calcium salts. EDTA will also damage concrete, so it's best to test it on an inconspicuous sample area first.

Preventing efflorescence
There are a few things you can do to reduce the possibility of efflorescence. Including either Class-F fly ash or metakaolin can lock up significant amounts of calcium hydroxide in the concrete. And as stated earlier, the efflorescence reaction is driven by water, either water from above or below a slab. Only vapor barriers can prevent the movement of moisture from the subgrade to the surface of a slab. And the application of sealers and coatings can prevent surface water from penetrating slabs. Apply them as soon as surfaces are clean and dry.

A final thought
Efflorescence naturally occurs on all concrete. Part of the problem—and the solution—may have to do with the way we sell colored concrete. Customers often have the idea that their concrete will have uniform color. But they should be sold on the idea that concrete has variable color, providing interest and the impression of color depth.

The builder was local. I have the name but I'll hold off on posting it out of respect while trying to resolve this.

I'm wondering why the home inspector at purchase wouldn't have noticed this stuff?

Accel Junky said:

I think the builder was a local or regional builder. They were doing the entire subdivision I believe. I'm positive it wasn't a national builder. Not a custom job though. She picked the house out of inventory because it was a better deal than building at the time. She's going to send me that info.

The 1 year warranty phase is closing at the end of May so we are trying to talk the builder about the biggest flaws to get them rectified before then. This is really the most glaring, everything else is a pretty nice job.

Click to expand...

Did she hire a home inspector before the purchase? At this point, I think I would hire another home inspector for another look at the house, sure the inspection will cost a couple hundred dollars, but I damn well guarantee they find several things wrong with the house that you missed or a first inspection might have missed, often times on the 11th month inspection they find something so major that it more then pays for their inspection.

A home inspector will also be able to tell you for sure about the garage floor and drywall. If the garage floor is junk he will note it in his report, which will hold up in mitigation and litigation if it were to go that far before your pictures and your opinions. There are allot of inspectors I'd make sure if you want an inspection to go with an ASHI inspector, there are several national franchised inspection services that are good like Amerispec and US Inspect.

Sometimes when a house is new, settling, cracking, garage floor chalking, doors falling out of plump, etc; doesn't become an issue until the house is occupied, thats why I like it when my clients get an inspection right before the 1 year is up.

BTW, I didn't want you to name the builder name, often times local custom and semi custom builders are more likely to resolve the issues then the big national outfits.

**** job all round for sure.
As a builder, I would be ashamed to put my name to rubbish work like that.

cowboyjosh said:

BTW, I didn't want you to name the builder name, often times local custom and semi custom builders are more likely to resolve the issues then the big national outfits.

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Oh, no worries, I just anticipated before speaking (which I rarely do haha!).

The 11th month inspection sounds like a good idea. I know of a highly recommended fella who holds the certification you mentioned. Also head of the state association of inspectors or something like that.

I appreciate all of the responses so far. Rebecca will be very happy to see that several builders have chimed in.

Do you think that this is something that can be rectified with resurfacing and some drywall work or is it a major overall that would be involved to bring it to good standing?

Thanks,

Daniel

That is about what you would expect from a builder who is in the business to make money and scram. If you want things done right, do them yourself. Otherwise you have to settle for what you get.

Accel Junky said:

Oh, no worries, I just anticipated before speaking (which I rarely do haha!).

The 11th month inspection sounds like a good idea. I know of a highly recommended fella who holds the certification you mentioned. Also head of the state association of inspectors or something like that.

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call an inspector tomorrow, not the first guy who inspected the house though, and have him go thru EVERYTHING, even if the floor is 'ok structurally and its just cosmetic you'll have piece of mind, don't trust the builders sub contractor who will no doubt say its "ok" because he'll say anything (believe me) to avoid getting back charged to redo a ****** job. A couple hundred bucks is worth it, and if the second inspector doesn't find much at least you know you bought a well built home!

Did you read the article i posted it tells you how to fix the chalky surface

cyamaha2007 said:

Did you read the article i posted it tells you how to fix the chalky surface

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Yep, great article. I really appreciate it. Very easy to see that this is what happened to the floor and why it's so chalky. I believe she has already washed the floor and scrubbed and no dice. I'm assuming this is at the point where they say it's hard to rectify. That's why I was thinking that the builder/subcontractor would need to come back out and grind the floor lightly?

Accel Junky said:

I appreciate all of the responses so far. Rebecca will be very happy to see that several builders have chimed in.

Do you think that this is something that can be rectified with resurfacing and some drywall work or is it a major overall that would be involved to bring it to good standing?

Thanks,

Daniel

Click to expand...

A good inspector who can see the house in person could answer that question. A picture on the net is worth a thousand words, but nothing beats seeing the situation in person. Often times IMO concrete resurfacing is a waste of time and money, nothing more then a temporary solution, cause its essentially a glued down patch that will eventually fail. If some third party (inspector) tells you the floor is junk, they can jack hammer out the slab and re-pour the floor without too much issue. Sadly I have had to have several garage floors re-done in the past because of various issues, often due to settling or heaving.

I dont think grinding or resurfacing will work. I would be interested to know what kind of strength the slab has.

cowboyjosh said:

One more thought on the garage floor, did they saw cut or tool any control joints into the slab for expansion and contraction? I don't see any and if there are none they for sure missed a step.

Click to expand...

That's something else I thought of. I just assumed that new concrete formulas or building techniques didn't require them. But, no, there are zero expansion joints or cuts. It's one big, flat rough surface.

Looks like ****. Sorry man. I would have the Builder come out. I would never have let that pass if my name was on it. Before you do anything have a Concrete guy come out and give you his opinion. A picture is worth a thousand words but actually being there is priceless.

I wouldn't blame it on the Inspector though. Most of the time they don't know their @$$ from a hole in the ground anyways. They do have insurance for stuff like that though. I would demand some attention on this one. You might get away with a skim coat but you never know how long that will last as far as cracking goes. Deep relief Cuts or a cracked floor. Not much choice there. I am fine with a cracked floor just because while working on cars I do not want to have to roll Jacks/Creepers/Engine Hoists over the Grand Canyon, which is how deep relief cuts need to be to function properly. IMHO. Just my .o2

You need to go over to the flooring section. Some of the expensive epoxy finishes would smooth that out for sure, as well as making it bullet proof. Grinding could be an option, but it is easier to knock off high spots than to grind a whole floor down to the low spots.

However, even if you ground it very lightly, power washed it and painted it, it would be fifty times better looking, and the paint will not attract or hold the dust. I have a broom finish in my barn and I painted it. It is still textured, but it sweeps and cleans up incredibly well.

Another option would be to use vinyl composition tile on the floor. There would be prep, but it would be doable.

If you can get satisfaction from the builder, more power to you.

rockchucker said:

Looks like ****. Sorry man. I would have the Builder come out. I would never have let that pass if my name was on it. Before you do anything have a Concrete guy come out and give you his opinion. A picture is worth a thousand words but actually being there is priceless.

I wouldn't blame it on the Inspector though. Most of the time they don't know their @$$ from a hole in the ground anyways. They do have insurance for stuff like that though. I would demand some attention on this one. You might get away with a skim coat but you never know how long that will last as far as cracking goes. Deep relief Cuts or a cracked floor. Not much choice there. I am fine with a cracked floor just because while working on cars I do not want to have to roll Jacks/Creepers/Engine Hoists over the Grand Canyon, which is how deep relief cuts need to be to function properly. IMHO. Just my .o2

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Yeah, I'm thinking the relief cuts would be best for the life of the floor. I was shocked to see there were none. Like I mentioned, I just assumed concrete floor technology had somehow advanced beyond what my feeble mind knows

it was poured too wet

I'm looking at the entry door, I presume to the interior of the house. Whats your local code for the height from the threshold to the garage floor? Around here I think that it is about 8" or more. You don't want fumes entering the house.

She needs to complain to the builder and have it fixed before any warranty runs out. I had to have my builder redo several pieces of concrete.

I agree with brownbagg, it was either poured too wet or it got rained on while it was
setting up and washed away enough cement that that rough *** finish is what you
were left with. No saw cuts or expansion joints definately not good. I wouldn't want
exterior flat work left that rough. Possibly grinding and high build epoxy would improve
the look, but control joints still would need to be cut in before hand. The amount of
surface smoothing needed before laying VCT would probably be cost prohibitive. The
exposed bottom plate tells me the foundation was low in that corner and the flatwork
guy set up a lazer to set floor grade. The framers came in and built on what was left
for them to work with. The foundation exposure says that the garage foundation is
out of square. The project manager definately let some defects and poor workmanship
slide on this one.

Just looks like the floor was not power troweled to me. My Dad has 2 buildings that the slab looks kind of like that. We just used a bull float to finish it. Would be a perfect candidate for expoxy!

Recently watched a show on just that proble. I agree that you should get a good concrete guy out there to see it. You may have to pay for his time but it iwll be worth it. if I remember correctly you may have a serious problem so that is worth finding out. I don't think epoxy will stick well to that concrete either.
At the very least the guy should have had a square. Apparently he did not judging by the work along the wall. Is the rest of the house that out of square or just the garage?
Poor workmanship and no pride.

If it is something that could be covered under the house warranty I would go that route.
I can say the house I grew up in that was bought new in 1974 had a chalky, dusty garage slab for years. As a kid I used to sweep it and ended up with a 5 pound pile of white chalk. The slab had been painted numerous times over the years but to this day, there is not a single crack in that slab (The house is still in my family).

You might also consider this. If the builder took those short cuts or allowed that type of workmanship in an area that is highly visible, what did he skip or overlook in areas that you can't see?

I'd have to agree that you need another detailed home inspection.

Ray

x2. Get a qualified home inspector before the warranty expires.

Let us know what he/she finds.

dan76 said:

x2. Get a qualified home inspector before the warranty expires.

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Around here at least, a "home inspector" opinion and $4.95 will get you a small coffee at Starbucks. Some of these highschool dropout inspectors are barely literate enough to fill out the yes/no form about whether the sink drains.

If you need serious concrete advice you're going to need someone with a little more robust technical/structural background.

Zrexxer said:

Around here at least, a "home inspector" opinion and $4.95 will get you a small coffee at Starbucks. Some of these highschool dropout inspectors are barely literate enough to fill out the yes/no form about whether the sink drains.

If you need serious concrete advice you're going to need someone with a little more robust technical/structural background.

Click to expand...

I agree. Some home inspection outfits do a disservice to both the industry and the homeowner. When I sold my previous home the buyer had an inspection done & the inspector's report gave numerous detailed descriptions of problematic issues found. The problem was that none of the issues were present in my home. I assumed the inspector had written the wrong address on his report and that we were looking at a report for a different home. After several phone calls w/ the inspector to get an explanation of the issues it became clear that he had no real construction technology background or knowledge. I finally asked him to meet me at the house and show me where the faults were. At this point he admitted he had never actually been to the home, but based his comments on the typical age of home in the neighborhood and the typical issues that homes of that age would have. The homes on my street were build from the 1910's through the 1950's many had remodels and additions over the years so its not like there could any comparison made.
This was a company recommended by both the buyers RE agent and my agent. WTF?

And I agree with others, from the photos your slab looks like it may poured with a mix that was too wet and never had the final surface finish work.